Subject: Top Flowers in US and Canada
Answered By: jdb-ga on 15 Jul 2006 18:20 PDT
Rated:
Hello,

I am responding to your question on the top 3 commercially grown
flowering plants (the industry refers to this category as "potted
flowering plants") in the U.S. and Canada by value and volume,
percentage of thesthat are greenhouse grown, and the top states and
provinces for growing these. The top three potted flowering plants in
the US are poinsettias, orchids and chrysanthemums. In Canada it is
geraniums, poinsettias and chrysanthemums. Everything is grown in
green houses except Hawaii orchids. I calculated from the information
below that subtracting Hawaii's non-greenhouse grown orchids from the
U.S.
nationwide total finds that 85.1% of U.S. commercial potted orchids
are greenhouse grown.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This April 2006 US Dept of Agriculture report on floraculture shows
the largest volume potted flowering plants to be poinsettia, orchid,
then chrysanthemum:

"Potted Flowering Plants:
California accounts for 25 percent of the category's total value.
Poinsettia value, which adds $242 million to this category, is down 2
percent from 2004. The value of Potted Orchids is $144 million, up 11
percent from the previous year. Florist Chrysanthemum value is up 1
percent, to $68.9 million."

http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/repo...b/floran06.txt


To answer an earlier question I had I found the above information.
With Orchid sales growing why is AOS failing? Strange.

jtill wrote:
Subject: Top Flowers in US and Canada
Answered By: jdb-ga on 15 Jul 2006 18:20 PDT
Rated:
Hello,

I am responding to your question on the top 3 commercially grown
flowering plants (the industry refers to this category as "potted
flowering plants") in the U.S. and Canada by value and volume,
percentage of thesthat are greenhouse grown, and the top states and
provinces for growing these. The top three potted flowering plants in
the US are poinsettias, orchids and chrysanthemums. In Canada it is
geraniums, poinsettias and chrysanthemums. Everything is grown in
green houses except Hawaii orchids. I calculated from the information
below that subtracting Hawaii's non-greenhouse grown orchids from the
U.S.
nationwide total finds that 85.1% of U.S. commercial potted orchids
are greenhouse grown.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This April 2006 US Dept of Agriculture report on floraculture shows
the largest volume potted flowering plants to be poinsettia, orchid,
then chrysanthemum:

"Potted Flowering Plants:
California accounts for 25 percent of the category's total value.
Poinsettia value, which adds $242 million to this category, is down 2
percent from 2004. The value of Potted Orchids is $144 million, up 11
percent from the previous year. Florist Chrysanthemum value is up 1
percent, to $68.9 million."

http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/repo...b/floran06.txt


To answer an earlier question I had I found the above information.
With Orchid sales growing why is AOS failing? Strange.


The AOS serves a population of mainly experienced growers, hobbyists.
This population seems to reduce in numbers based on the closing of many
US-based orchid nurseries and the unavailability of high quality
orchids, not mentioning the recent economic downturn.

Today orchid buyers are not AOS readers. They are simply just buying
orchid flowers and throwing away the plants after killing them.

KTTT -

I think it goes deeper than that. There have been numerous discussions about
the AOS on this board. Some have been heated. One thing we all agree on is
that we would like the AOS to succeed.

You are certainly correct that as orchids have become more accessible many
people are buying them to keep only for the length of time they bloom. But
if you are a regular reader of rgo, you know that the majority of
contributors here are serious and passionate about this hobby. Yet many are
not AOS members.

Diana

"KTTT" wrote in message
...
jtill wrote:
Subject: Top Flowers in US and Canada
Answered By: jdb-ga on 15 Jul 2006 18:20 PDT
Rated:
Hello,

I am responding to your question on the top 3 commercially grown
flowering plants (the industry refers to this category as "potted
flowering plants") in the U.S. and Canada by value and volume,
percentage of thesthat are greenhouse grown, and the top states and
provinces for growing these. The top three potted flowering plants in
the US are poinsettias, orchids and chrysanthemums. In Canada it is
geraniums, poinsettias and chrysanthemums. Everything is grown in
green houses except Hawaii orchids. I calculated from the information
below that subtracting Hawaii's non-greenhouse grown orchids from the
U.S.
nationwide total finds that 85.1% of U.S. commercial potted orchids
are greenhouse grown.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This April 2006 US Dept of Agriculture report on floraculture shows
the largest volume potted flowering plants to be poinsettia, orchid,
then chrysanthemum:

"Potted Flowering Plants:
California accounts for 25 percent of the category's total value.
Poinsettia value, which adds $242 million to this category, is down 2
percent from 2004. The value of Potted Orchids is $144 million, up 11
percent from the previous year. Florist Chrysanthemum value is up 1
percent, to $68.9 million."

http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/repo...b/floran06.txt


To answer an earlier question I had I found the above information.
With Orchid sales growing why is AOS failing? Strange.


The AOS serves a population of mainly experienced growers, hobbyists. This
population seems to reduce in numbers based on the closing of many
US-based orchid nurseries and the unavailability of high quality orchids,
not mentioning the recent economic downturn.

Today orchid buyers are not AOS readers. They are simply just buying
orchid flowers and throwing away the plants after killing them.

On Feb 23, 3:00*pm, "Diana Kulaga"
wrote:
KTTT -

I think it goes deeper than that. There have been numerous discussions about
the AOS on this board. Some have been heated. One thing we all agree on is
that we would like the AOS to succeed.

You are certainly correct that as orchids have become more accessible many
people are buying them to keep only for the length of time they bloom. But
if you are a regular reader of rgo, you know that the majority of
contributors here are serious and passionate about this hobby. Yet many are
not AOS members.


The way stores like Walmart and Home Depot sell them may contribute to
the phenomenon where "many people are buying them to keep only for the
length of time they bloom". They bring in, and sell, lots of orchids,
though of a limited variety. But they also provide little to no
information about them. When I see people there, either staff or
people looking to buy orchids, few know that orchids can bloom more
than once if well cared for. They do occasionally get good plants
(such as the Cymbidiums I got at Walmart recently), but they treat
them as disposable. They are improving, a little, in that, for the
first time in my experience, the Cymbidiums I bought actually had
labels identifying the hybrid (and I found these on the internet, with
descriptions consistent with the plants I bought). But they encourage
the notion that they ought to be thrown out once the bloom fades by
their practice of throwing their stock out if they are not sold before
their blooms fade. One would think they wouldn't throw out such stock
if they knew the plants would rebloom in a year.

I suspect most people who buy orchids, even from Walmart (a place
where people seek bargains) or Home Depot (a place serving do-it-
yourselfers), would try to keep them going if they knew orchids would
rebloom. The problem is, at least with the people I have talked to,
they don't know it is possible, or how to do it. And while it is easy
to find info on the Internet, many of the folk I have spoken to could
be described as luddites WRT IT (these are amazing people when it
comes to skill to work with their hands, but IT is an alien thing to
them: they're no more able to use the net than I am able to rewire a
house or upgrade the plumbing in my bathroom). Perhaps the various
orchid societies need to get more creative in marketing themselves?
Or perhaps it isn't in orchid vendors' interest to educate their
customers? Or perhaps I am getting too cynical in my old age?

Cheers,

Ted

as for reblooming in a year, i doubt any big box stores have either the
space or the wherewithal to keep stock that long. plus, they don't
*want* customers taking the plants home and reblooming them; they want
them to take them home, enjoy them for a monthj throw them out and come
back and get *another* one.

OTOH, orchid growers i've talked to seem very interested in their
customers' being able to grow and rebloom plants. but for every orchid
person in the business, there are 100 walmarts/trader joe's. the
numbers are against the als and pats and odoms' etc out there. i'm sure
it also varies geographically--al, orchids for you, and the Little
Greenhouse are pretty much the only dedicated orchid nurseries within 90
minutes of my house. if i lived in homestead, however, there would be,
what, at least 6 places to go in a 90 minutes radius?

i know lots of people i talk to don't have the patience to rebloom the
plants--they buy them because they're pretty, and toss them a few
months after the flowers fade because they don't want to wait as long as
it will take for them to rebloom.

i know growing these worthless things has certainly taught *me* to have
more patience. sometimes. (--pay no attention to that whimpering you
hear from the trash can, where i tossed a phal that i've had for three
years and that has only grown small leaves. plus i think it's got some
sort of ick. -jams lid on tighter-) (which is not to say that i don't
keep non blooming plants for ridiculous amounts of time--but they have
to be healthy.)

as for AOS, i think they shot themselves in the foot when they jacked up
the membership fee--i know that's what stopped me from renewing. (i'm
only a member now because it's my birthday present from my sibs.)

--j_a

On Feb 23, 9:46*pm, unknown wrote:
as for reblooming in a year, i doubt any big box stores have either the
space or the wherewithal to keep stock that long. plus, they don't
*want* customers taking the plants home and reblooming them; they want
them to take them home, enjoy them for a monthj throw them out and come
back and get *another* one.

Quite right. Their business model relies on this. At the same time,
people I have met buying orchids there are grateful to learn that they
can rebloom them. I know one man who has been able to keep a
phalaenopsis alive for many years, but, while he'd bought it in bloom,
he has never been able to get it to bloom again. While there are
undoubtedly plenty of people who'd buy them because the flowers are
pretty and then toss them when the flowers fade, there are also lots
of people who would try to rebloom them if they knew it was possible
and could find a resource to learn how. None of the people I met
buying orchids in Walmart, and only one that I met buying them at Home
Depot, even knew that there was such a thing as an orchid society, and
all were grateful to learn about the nearest orchid society and the
resource they could provide.

OTOH, orchid growers i've talked to seem very interested in their
customers' being able to grow and rebloom *plants. *but for every orchid
person in the business, there are 100 walmarts/trader joe's. *the
numbers are against the als and pats and odoms' etc out there. *i'm sure
it also varies geographically--al, orchids for you, and the Little
Greenhouse are pretty much the only dedicated orchid nurseries within 90
minutes of my house. *if i lived in homestead, however, there would be,
what, at least 6 places to go in a 90 minutes radius?

You're lucky. I have a two hour drive to find the nearest orchid
vendor, and the only 'convenient' access to such vendors is at the
orchid societies' meetings (they're all a minimum of two hours away,
and in one case as much as three hours away, if I rent a car to get to
their meetings or shows.

And yes, the vendors I find there are quite interested in helping
their clients succeed in reblooming their plants and take special
pride when they do so (sometimes well enough to take them to be
judged). It doesn't matter if the big box stores outnumber the
specialist orchid vendors. Their business serves a purpose in
creating awareness of, and interest in, orchids.

i know lots of people i talk to don't have the patience to rebloom the
plants--they buy them because they're pretty, and *toss them a few
months after the flowers fade because they don't want to wait as long as
it will take for them to rebloom.

And they're well served by the big box stores that cater to that. But
that doesn't imply that there aren't a significant number of people
who, once getting a taste for orchids at such a place, proceed on to
investigate the possibilities further and eventually become
enthusiastic growers with a keen interest in orchids (and often other
house plants).

i know growing these worthless things has certainly taught *me* to have
more patience. * sometimes. *(--pay no attention to that whimpering you
hear from the trash can, where i tossed a phal that i've had for three
years and that has only grown small leaves. *plus i think it's got some
sort of ick. -jams lid on tighter-) *(which is not to say that i don't
keep non blooming plants for ridiculous amounts of time--but they have
to be healthy.)


:-)

The only time I toss mine is when they'd died from neglect during my
stays at the hospital. I can keep them healthy and rebloom them, but
only as long as I can remain healthy enough to stay out of the
hospital: I've been in hospital three times in as many years, so my
collection is meager right now.

as for AOS, i think they shot themselves in the foot when they jacked up
the membership fee--i know that's what stopped me from renewing. *(i'm
only a member now because it's my birthday present from my sibs.)

It's like any other venture. Survival depends in part on management,
how well management can bring in new clients and keep existing
clients, and in part on general economic conditions.

No organization today is likely to be immune to the 'interesting'
economic circumstances in which we find ourselves. We'll all likely
survive, but there will inevitably be vendors and other kinds of
organizations that will be hard pressed to survive (I don't know about
the states, but I heard a report on Canadian news that consumer
confidence in Canada has risen considerably over the last month or
so). Who in their right mind would buy an orchid or join an orchid
society (or remain a member of one) is he is uncertain that he'll
still be employed, and have a roof over his head and food on the table
next month and next year, &c.?

Cheers,

Ted

Watch out for the Ag survey. The orchid numbers are bogus. AOS lobbied
very hard to get orchids as a line item, but never put in any effort to
clean up the numbers. I think there was a lot of dick swinging to get the
highest orchid counts possible. Every time an orchid changed hands it got
counted. If an orchid passed through three 'growers' before it ended up
with a consumer it shows up in the survey as three plants sold and the value
added to the survey was the sum of the three sales. I feel the bogus Ag
survey orchid numbers are a major factor in the current world glut of
orchids. The industry was just not as big as the Ag survey made it seem.
Today the Ag survey is even more questionable. It no longer covers all 50
states and I am not sure how many of the Phal arriving via boat are showing
up in the survey counts at all. A better measure on the state of orchid
sales within the US would be to look at the number of plants being imported
into the US.

On Feb 24, 9:03*am, "Pat Brennan" wrote:
Watch out for the Ag survey. *The orchid numbers are bogus. *AOS lobbied
very hard to get orchids as a line item, but never put in any effort to
clean up the numbers. *I think there was a lot of dick swinging to get the
highest orchid counts possible.

Who knows? The results of any survey, regardless of who did it, can
undoubtedly be debated endlessly. There are always questions about
survey design, analysis, purpose, &c. (ignoring questions of the
competence of those involved in conducting the survey)

*Every time an orchid changed hands it got
counted. *If an orchid passed through three 'growers' before it ended up
with a consumer it shows up in the survey as three plants sold and the value
added to the survey was the sum of the three sales.

So you would discount as irrelevant the economic activities of those
who specialize in breeding plants, those who are focussed on growing
plants from germination through to being blooming size, &c. I have
known people whose primary activity in the orchid business was
breeding, and others who did little more that buy flasks and grow the
plants out to their first bloom. And they made a profit doing so.
Are their activities to be discounted?

I have not looked as the Ag survey you described, so I can not comment
on how well it was designed or executed. I would be surprised,
though, if they either ignored such activities or confounded retail
sales with wholesale sales. In my view, one can not get a sense of
the size and health of the industry without both, just as one can't
understand the beef cattle industry without details on primary
production, feed lots, slaughter houses, &c. &c. &c.

*I feel the bogus Ag
survey orchid numbers are a major factor in the current world glut of
orchids. *The industry was just not as big as the Ag survey made it seem.

This seems contradictory. How can there be a glut of orchids and the
industry be smaller than it appears?

And in my experience, there may be a super abundance of some orchids,
like certain Phalaenopsis cultivars, but for many, plants are hard to
find. While I would be interested in buying specimens of the classic
cattleya species, I have never seen one. And while I found a very
nice reference for Huntleyas (with amazing pictures of many of the
species), I have never seen one in the flesh; neither a species nor a
hybrid using it. And I have seen very few specimens of Phalaenopsis
species even though there is an abundance of Phalaenopsis hybrids; so
much so that they're almost a dime a dozen.

Today the Ag survey is even more questionable. *It no longer covers all 50
states and I am not sure how many of the Phal arriving via boat are showing
up in the survey counts at all. *A better measure on the state of orchid
sales within the US would be to look at the number of plants being imported
into the US.

That would be a relatively weak, and potentially misleading,
indicator. I would expect, for example, the number of Phal imports to
decline as the domestic Phal breeding and cultivation gets healthier.
After all, why go to the expense of importing a Phal specimen, which
may arrive in a weakened state, if one can get the same kind of orchid
in excellent shape from a local grower. One of the species of
interest to me is P. schilleriana. Why would I import one from
Indonesia, or one of her neighbors, when I know there is a vendor in
Montreal that produces outstanding specimens of that species? When it
is time for me to get one, all I have to do is drive there (or wait
until they come to one of the shows in southern Ontario); and I don't
have to worry about crossing a national border.

If one really wants a sense of the state of an industry, one has to
measure every aspect of it, including imports, local production,
wholesale and retail sales, &c. Trying to get one measure is
troublesome at best. Most efforts at reducing a multivariate problem
to a univariate indicator are futile at best (despite claims made by
advocates of one 'index' or another).

But why worry? The current economic times are likely to shake out
some weaker players in the industry, but I doubt the industry is going
to disappear. Unless things get so desperate that no-one can afford
to put a roof over their head or food on the table, people are going
to want some ornamental plants to beautify their homes, and as long as
that is true, orchid businesses of some form will thrive in good times
and survive in tough times. And as long as we can find orchids
somewhere, and there are the kind folk who provide experience and
wisdom here in this forum, what is there to worry about? Do any of us
buy orchids, or try to learn about them, because there are lots of
people buying orchids? Not me. I buy them 'cause I like them, and I
study them 'cause they're interesting. I'd consider the Ag survey
numbers only if I was considering creating a new orchid based
business.

FTR: I would be advising caution in the use of any survey, regardless
of who designed, executed, and published it, because of my background
and experience with multivariate analysis of survey data in
biostatistics.

Cheers,

Ted

Diana Kulaga wrote:
KTTT -

I think it goes deeper than that. There have been numerous discussions about
the AOS on this board. Some have been heated. One thing we all agree on is
that we would like the AOS to succeed.

I do agree that there are other issues affecting the AOS as well.

However, as a whole, I notice that today the hobby of keeping orchids
has lost a significant amount of "prestige". It used to be perceived
that orchid growers are of an accomplished class of ...growers. Today,
everyone can be called an orchid keeper if he or she keeps one or two
big white or pink phalaenopsis alive at least after blooming.

The AOS does not serve this general population. The articles are way
too advanced for them. On the other hand, most RGO readers and the
other real orchid growers are not being served by the AOS either. The
articles are too boring to read.

I personally think that today there are only two distinct groups of
orchid growers as outlined above. The amateur class is getting larger
and larger; but they don't read the AOS. The serious group is getting
smaller and smaller; and they don't read the magazine either. The
inevitable result is what we have seen today with the magazine.

In addition, I also think that the Internet also contributes to the
demise of the AOS. In the past, the AOS magazine, words of mouth, and
local orchid greenhouses are the places you can learn more about new
knowledge or varieties of orchids. Today, you can stay home and find
almost anything you want to know about orchids on the Internet.

So, there is no need to be an AOS member at all. :-)

The only reason I would re-subscribe to the magazine is for its
collectible value only. :-)

You are certainly correct that as orchids have become more accessible many
people are buying them to keep only for the length of time they bloom. But
if you are a regular reader of rgo, you know that the majority of
contributors here are serious and passionate about this hobby. Yet many are
not AOS members.

Diana

On Feb 24, 12:44*pm, KTTT wrote:
Diana Kulaga wrote:
KTTT -

I think it goes deeper than that. There have been numerous discussions about
the AOS on this board. Some have been heated. One thing we all agree on is
that we would like the AOS to succeed.

I do agree that there are other issues affecting the AOS as well.

However, as a whole, I notice that today the hobby of keeping orchids
has lost a significant amount of "prestige". *It used to be perceived
that orchid growers are of an accomplished class of ...growers. *Today,
everyone can be called an orchid keeper if he or she keeps one or two
big white or pink phalaenopsis alive at least after blooming.

The AOS does not serve this general population. *The articles are way
too advanced for them. *On the other hand, most RGO readers and the
other real orchid growers are not being served by the AOS either. *The
articles are too boring to read.

I personally think that today there are only two distinct groups of
orchid growers as outlined above. *The amateur class is getting larger
and larger; but they don't read the AOS. *The serious group is getting
smaller and smaller; and they don't read the magazine either. *The
inevitable result is what we have seen today with the magazine.

In addition, I also think that the Internet also contributes to the
demise of the AOS. *In the past, the AOS magazine, words of mouth, and
local orchid greenhouses are the places you can learn more about new
knowledge or varieties of orchids. *Today, you can stay home and find
almost anything you want to know about orchids on the Internet.

So, there is no need to be an AOS member at all. *:-)

The only reason I would re-subscribe to the magazine is for its
collectible value only. *:-)



You are certainly correct that as orchids have become more accessible many
people are buying them to keep only for the length of time they bloom. But
if you are a regular reader of rgo, you know that the majority of
contributors here are serious and passionate about this hobby. Yet many are
not AOS members.

Diana- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Interesting obsevation about the AOS magazine Diana. I have noticed
the same thing generally regarding certain Aquarium magazines.
They seem to be for beginners mostly. A wonderful thing if you're
just starting out and need to know about setup and cycling. I used to
subscribe to a couple,
but cancelled after several years, due to lack of interest on my
part. But, I will say the articles they write are accurate and all,
just stuff I've known for years.
Is that what you're talking about?
Bob - Philadelphia, Pa