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Old 06-05-2003, 06:20 AM
Dave Lockwood
 
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Default What is 'Entra.' an abbreviation of?

Al has this listed on his website
http://www.orchidexchange.com/catalog.htm#Flasks (Entra. Fire Storm
'Leesburg') crossed with a Phal! I'm thinking it's an intergeneric but have
no clue. Al is a very knowledgeable fellow so I'm sure it's the real deal,
I've never come across it. Anyone have an idea where I can find it? (Al's
running a business and I hate to bug him with this sort of thing) - Dave


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Old 06-05-2003, 06:56 AM
sneff
 
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Default What is 'Entra.' an abbreviation of?

"Dave Lockwood" wrote in message
news:3EGta.749211$L1.213352@sccrnsc02...
Al has this listed on his website
http://www.orchidexchange.com/catalog.htm#Flasks (Entra. Fire Storm
'Leesburg') crossed with a Phal! I'm thinking it's an intergeneric but

have
no clue. Al is a very knowledgeable fellow so I'm sure it's the real

deal,
I've never come across it. Anyone have an idea where I can find it?

(Al's
running a business and I hate to bug him with this sort of thing) - Dave




Dave,

I was interested to know the answer to this as well, so I did a google
groups search, and found Al has discussed Entra. previously.

Here is a snippet from his post. Not the same hybrid you mention.

------

"....I have a Entra. Fire Storm x Paraphal Sunny in a mother flask at the
moment.
It is making nice spread of protocorms. The species break down of this
cross is
Phal amabilis 12.50%
Phal denevei 25.00%
Phal serpentilingua 25.00%
Ren monachica 25.00%
Vdps gigantea 12.50%...."

-----


sneff


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Old 06-05-2003, 09:56 AM
Ray @ First Rays Orchids
 
Posts: n/a
Default What is 'Entra.' an abbreviation of?

Ernestara = Phalaenopsis x Renanthera x Vandopsis

--

Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
http://www.firstrays.com
Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


"Dave Lockwood" wrote in message
news:3EGta.749211$L1.213352@sccrnsc02...
Al has this listed on his website
http://www.orchidexchange.com/catalog.htm#Flasks (Entra. Fire Storm
'Leesburg') crossed with a Phal! I'm thinking it's an intergeneric but

have
no clue. Al is a very knowledgeable fellow so I'm sure it's the real

deal,
I've never come across it. Anyone have an idea where I can find it?

(Al's
running a business and I hate to bug him with this sort of thing) - Dave




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Old 06-05-2003, 11:44 AM
Ray @ First Rays Orchids
 
Posts: n/a
Default What is 'Entra.' an abbreviation of?

A bit more digging shows:

Ernestara Fire Storm = Phalandopsis Arizona Star (Phal amabilis x Vandopsis
gigantea) x Renanthera monachica.

They are apparently substantial flowers, basically varying degrees of yellow
with red spots, some fading to more of an orange background.

Ken Peterson ought to be yellow, so I'm guessing that these will be in the
yellow-orange range as well.

Incidentally, I have added a list of all currently recognized orchid genera,
with their abbreviations and makeup to the Free Info pages at our website.
It's a long list, so be patient while it loads!

--

Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
http://www.firstrays.com
Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


"Ray @ First Rays Orchids" wrote in message
...
Ernestara = Phalaenopsis x Renanthera x Vandopsis

--

Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
http://www.firstrays.com
Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


"Dave Lockwood" wrote in message
news:3EGta.749211$L1.213352@sccrnsc02...
Al has this listed on his website
http://www.orchidexchange.com/catalog.htm#Flasks (Entra. Fire Storm
'Leesburg') crossed with a Phal! I'm thinking it's an intergeneric but

have
no clue. Al is a very knowledgeable fellow so I'm sure it's the real

deal,
I've never come across it. Anyone have an idea where I can find it?

(Al's
running a business and I hate to bug him with this sort of thing) - Dave






  #5   Report Post  
Old 06-05-2003, 01:44 PM
Al
 
Posts: n/a
Default What is 'Entra.' an abbreviation of?

Here's a good coffee story:

"The Trouble with Being Ernestara Fire Storm"

The Entra. Fire Storm 'Leesburg' is one of my favorite plants. Here is a
link to a picture of the flower:
http://www.orchidexchange.com/Photos/web0027.htm Fire storm is identified
as the capsule parent and a neat looking Phal. Ken Peterson is the pollen
parent on this page. I think this will be a fun cross with a lot of hot
intense color possibilities. Plants from this grex are growing with a very
Phal like habit. Most are still young and small. My largest plants have
only 4 inch leaf spans still. There are only a few flasks left. Most are
in compot or individual 2.5 inch pots.

As Ray and other have pointed out an Ernestara is comprised of species from
the three genera; Phalaenopsis, Vandopsis and Renanthera and this particular
grex, Fire Storm, is (Phal amabilis x Vandopsis gigantea) x Renanthera
monachica. When you look at this plant it is easy to see the Vandopsis and
Renanthrera genes in the growth habit of the plant: Currently it has
succulent monopodial growth that is very vanda-like and stands about 20"
tall and has a dozen pairs of leaves. When it blooms it is very easy to
recognize the two species from these two genus in the flower. What is hard
to see is any evidence of the Phal. amablis grandparent. This does not mean
it is not there. Inter-generic genetic being what it is it seems easy for
most genes of one species to be lost due to uneven recombination of genes
that still produce viable offspring, especially when you get two or more
generations away from the specific cross in question. But again, I barely
understand genetics so I can't say for sure.

One of the parents in my Entra. Fire Storm is one of the many hybrids
floating around in the orchid world with suspect parentage. If I look more
than 3 generations back in any of my favorite plants I can usually find
somebody who tells me there is a mistake in parentage and it is not really
what it claims to be. It is getting annoying even as it is often
educational to listen to what they have to say. In the case of Entra.
Firestorm, the parent Phdps Arizona Star (Phal amabilis x Vandopsis
gigantea) is the plant with suspect parentage When I use the word suspect
it means every time I mention my Entra Fire Storm on line somebody new
writes to tell me that it probably doesn't have any Phal amablis in it
because Phdps Arizona Star didn't really have any. Some people give
examples from personal experience with the plant and others offer only lore.
I don't know personally because I have never seen examples of Phdps Arizona
Star and never sought out the RHS slide of the flower required when the grex
was registered. I also believe my comments above about interspecies
genetics is true at the primary level. It is possible that many important
genes from the Phal did not pair up during reproduction with the vandopsis
and are just floating around as unpaired allies in the cells and therefore
not expresses obviously in the phenotype.

I bring all this up because I have used Entra. Fire Storm 'Leesburg' as the
capsule parent in crosses with Paraphaleanopsis species and produced
seedlings which are growing well in flask. They look vandaceous in habit at
this point. One of them is listed on my website:
DPE0912 Entra. Fire Storm 'Leesburg' x Pps. Sunny

As a general rule it is not possible to combine Paraphalaenopsis x
Phalaenopsis directly. You don't get viable seed when you cross species of
these two genera together. Generally. Theoretically it is possible to
achieve a plant with both genera in the background if you introduce them
through an intermediary. On one level my (Entra. Fire Storm 'Leesburg' x
Pps. Sunny) proves this. But then there is that pesky issue of the lineage
of Phdps Arizona Star to contend with. For purposes of RHS registration the
true lineage of these plants is irrelevant. When I register this hybrid it
will be registered as an as yet unnamed interspecific hybrid comprising
(Phalaenopsis, Vandopsis, Renanthera x Paraphaleanopsis) because the RHS is
following the paperwork trail created by the registration process and this
paperwork trail says Phdps Arizona Star has amablis as a parent.

I have acquired both species necessary to remake Phdps. Arizona Star. Now
all I have to do is repeat the experiment. Phal amablis is easy to bloom.
My Vandopsis gigantea seems to be another story. They may be too young yet.
All are still under a foot tall and they grows to be a very big plant. The
Vandopsis are a cool growing group and their genes may be helpful to
introduce cool temperature tolerance into a Phal breeding line.

Have a good day,
Al

"Ray @ First Rays Orchids" wrote in message
...
A bit more digging shows:

Ernestara Fire Storm = Phalandopsis Arizona Star (Phal amabilis x

Vandopsis
gigantea) x Renanthera monachica.






  #6   Report Post  
Old 06-05-2003, 11:08 PM
K Barrett
 
Posts: n/a
Default What is 'Entra.' an abbreviation of?

Can somebody please lend Al some pollen from their Vandopsis gigantea?

K Barrett

"Al" wrote in message
...
Here's a good coffee story:

"The Trouble with Being Ernestara Fire Storm"

The Entra. Fire Storm 'Leesburg' is one of my favorite plants. Here is a
link to a picture of the flower:
http://www.orchidexchange.com/Photos/web0027.htm Fire storm is identified
as the capsule parent and a neat looking Phal. Ken Peterson is the pollen
parent on this page. I think this will be a fun cross with a lot of hot
intense color possibilities. Plants from this grex are growing with a

very
Phal like habit. Most are still young and small. My largest plants have
only 4 inch leaf spans still. There are only a few flasks left. Most are
in compot or individual 2.5 inch pots.

As Ray and other have pointed out an Ernestara is comprised of species

from
the three genera; Phalaenopsis, Vandopsis and Renanthera and this

particular
grex, Fire Storm, is (Phal amabilis x Vandopsis gigantea) x Renanthera
monachica. When you look at this plant it is easy to see the Vandopsis

and
Renanthrera genes in the growth habit of the plant: Currently it has
succulent monopodial growth that is very vanda-like and stands about 20"
tall and has a dozen pairs of leaves. When it blooms it is very easy to
recognize the two species from these two genus in the flower. What is

hard
to see is any evidence of the Phal. amablis grandparent. This does not

mean
it is not there. Inter-generic genetic being what it is it seems easy for
most genes of one species to be lost due to uneven recombination of genes
that still produce viable offspring, especially when you get two or more
generations away from the specific cross in question. But again, I barely
understand genetics so I can't say for sure.

One of the parents in my Entra. Fire Storm is one of the many hybrids
floating around in the orchid world with suspect parentage. If I look

more
than 3 generations back in any of my favorite plants I can usually find
somebody who tells me there is a mistake in parentage and it is not really
what it claims to be. It is getting annoying even as it is often
educational to listen to what they have to say. In the case of Entra.
Firestorm, the parent Phdps Arizona Star (Phal amabilis x Vandopsis
gigantea) is the plant with suspect parentage When I use the word suspect
it means every time I mention my Entra Fire Storm on line somebody new
writes to tell me that it probably doesn't have any Phal amablis in it
because Phdps Arizona Star didn't really have any. Some people give
examples from personal experience with the plant and others offer only

lore.
I don't know personally because I have never seen examples of Phdps

Arizona
Star and never sought out the RHS slide of the flower required when the

grex
was registered. I also believe my comments above about interspecies
genetics is true at the primary level. It is possible that many important
genes from the Phal did not pair up during reproduction with the vandopsis
and are just floating around as unpaired allies in the cells and therefore
not expresses obviously in the phenotype.

I bring all this up because I have used Entra. Fire Storm 'Leesburg' as

the
capsule parent in crosses with Paraphaleanopsis species and produced
seedlings which are growing well in flask. They look vandaceous in habit

at
this point. One of them is listed on my website:
DPE0912 Entra. Fire Storm 'Leesburg' x Pps. Sunny

As a general rule it is not possible to combine Paraphalaenopsis x
Phalaenopsis directly. You don't get viable seed when you cross species

of
these two genera together. Generally. Theoretically it is possible to
achieve a plant with both genera in the background if you introduce them
through an intermediary. On one level my (Entra. Fire Storm 'Leesburg' x
Pps. Sunny) proves this. But then there is that pesky issue of the

lineage
of Phdps Arizona Star to contend with. For purposes of RHS registration

the
true lineage of these plants is irrelevant. When I register this hybrid

it
will be registered as an as yet unnamed interspecific hybrid comprising
(Phalaenopsis, Vandopsis, Renanthera x Paraphaleanopsis) because the RHS

is
following the paperwork trail created by the registration process and this
paperwork trail says Phdps Arizona Star has amablis as a parent.

I have acquired both species necessary to remake Phdps. Arizona Star.

Now
all I have to do is repeat the experiment. Phal amablis is easy to bloom.
My Vandopsis gigantea seems to be another story. They may be too young

yet.
All are still under a foot tall and they grows to be a very big plant.

The
Vandopsis are a cool growing group and their genes may be helpful to
introduce cool temperature tolerance into a Phal breeding line.

Have a good day,
Al

"Ray @ First Rays Orchids" wrote in message
...
A bit more digging shows:

Ernestara Fire Storm = Phalandopsis Arizona Star (Phal amabilis x

Vandopsis
gigantea) x Renanthera monachica.






  #7   Report Post  
Old 06-05-2003, 11:44 PM
Al
 
Posts: n/a
Default What is 'Entra.' an abbreviation of?

That would be an excellent solution. Let's wait until the amablis is in
bloom again. :-)

"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:nvVta.786796$S_4.808692@rwcrnsc53...
Can somebody please lend Al some pollen from their Vandopsis gigantea?

K Barrett



  #8   Report Post  
Old 07-05-2003, 05:20 PM
K Barrett
 
Posts: n/a
Default What is 'Entra.' an abbreviation of?

Post it here and we can ask around other groups we attend too.

K
"Al" wrote in message
...
That would be an excellent solution. Let's wait until the amablis is in
bloom again. :-)

"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:nvVta.786796$S_4.808692@rwcrnsc53...
Can somebody please lend Al some pollen from their Vandopsis gigantea?

K Barrett





  #9   Report Post  
Old 07-05-2003, 05:44 PM
Reka
 
Posts: n/a
Default What is 'Entra.' an abbreviation of?

Wow! That was a long, interesting story, and I wish you luck in recreating
the cross. I also hope mine will do well and bloom soon (11.5cm leaf span).
But don't you think "The *Importance* of being Ernest-ara Fire Storm" would
be
more effective and certainly Wilde-r?? grin
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
--Winston Churchill
"Al" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Here's a good coffee story:

"The Trouble with Being Ernestara Fire Storm"

The Entra. Fire Storm 'Leesburg' is one of my favorite plants. Here is a
link to a picture of the flower:
http://www.orchidexchange.com/Photos/web0027.htm



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 18.04.03


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Old 07-05-2003, 07:56 PM
Al
 
Posts: n/a
Default What is 'Entra.' an abbreviation of?

Yes. I got the title wrong, oh well. Oscar Wilde said, among other things:
"Memory is the diary that we all carry about with us. " My memory is faulty
with facts but that hardly matters because I carry my own "email sent file"
with me when I travel. One should always have something sensational to read
while being scanned, poked and searched by airport security.

Al



"Reka" wrote in message
...
Wow! That was a long, interesting story, and I wish you luck in

recreating
the cross. I also hope mine will do well and bloom soon (11.5cm leaf

span).
But don't you think "The *Importance* of being Ernest-ara Fire Storm"

would
be
more effective and certainly Wilde-r?? grin
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
--Winston Churchill
"Al" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Here's a good coffee story:

"The Trouble with Being Ernestara Fire Storm"

The Entra. Fire Storm 'Leesburg' is one of my favorite plants. Here is

a
link to a picture of the flower:
http://www.orchidexchange.com/Photos/web0027.htm



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 18.04.03






  #11   Report Post  
Old 07-05-2003, 09:44 PM
Reka
 
Posts: n/a
Default What is 'Entra.' an abbreviation of?

Thanks for the memories, Al! I played Cecily in college...sob

--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
--Winston Churchill
"Al" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Yes. I got the title wrong, oh well. Oscar Wilde said, among other

things:
"Memory is the diary that we all carry about with us. " My memory is

faulty
with facts but that hardly matters because I carry my own "email sent

file"
with me when I travel. One should always have something sensational to

read
while being scanned, poked and searched by airport security.

Al



"Reka" wrote in message
...
Wow! That was a long, interesting story, and I wish you luck in

recreating
the cross. I also hope mine will do well and bloom soon (11.5cm leaf

span).
But don't you think "The *Importance* of being Ernest-ara Fire Storm"

would
be
more effective and certainly Wilde-r?? grin
--
Reka
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the

subject."
--Winston Churchill
"Al" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Here's a good coffee story:

"The Trouble with Being Ernestara Fire Storm"

The Entra. Fire Storm 'Leesburg' is one of my favorite plants. Here

is
a
link to a picture of the flower:
http://www.orchidexchange.com/Photos/web0027.htm



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 18.04.03






---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 18.04.03


  #12   Report Post  
Old 09-05-2003, 02:44 AM
cporc
 
Posts: n/a
Default What is 'Entra.' an abbreviation of?

Hi,

It's for Ernestara = Entra = Phalaenopsis x Renanthera x Vandopsis


cporc

On Tue, 06 May 2003 04:13:51 GMT, "Dave Lockwood"
wrote:

Al has this listed on his website
http://www.orchidexchange.com/catalog.htm#Flasks (Entra. Fire Storm
'Leesburg') crossed with a Phal! I'm thinking it's an intergeneric but have
no clue. Al is a very knowledgeable fellow so I'm sure it's the real deal,
I've never come across it. Anyone have an idea where I can find it? (Al's
running a business and I hate to bug him with this sort of thing) - Dave


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