I've yet to find an orchid that lived too long. I'd be happy with an
average of 50 years per orchid. I think my average a little less than that
now.
How many people here want their orchids to die sooner?
________________
Ken Woodward
Newton, MA
http://kwoodward.net

"janet_a" wrote in message
om...
sorry, i'm googling so i'm out of order:

age of trees---aren't the methuselah trees out west approaching
4,000 yrs old? gimme a sec...



Taking Chips Off the Oldest Blocks


By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, June 16, 2003; Page A01


When they finally found it, high in California's rugged White
Mountains, the tree looked a lot like the other stunted and windblown
evergreens scattered about: a twisted mass of sun-bleached wood,
stubborn green needles and gray crusts of bark.

But this particular bristlecone pine was different. Nicknamed
Methuselah, it has clung to its rocky patch of ground near the Nevada
border for the past 4,768 years, making it the oldest known living
tree on the planet.....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Jun15.html


ok, so almost 5,000 yrs old.


--j_a

And Huon Pine trees in Tasmania are supposed to be even older now.
Apparently they have discovered trees down there that outdate everything.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:03:26 +1000, "Bolero"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

Maybe it would take 1000 years? It may be a while before anyone knows
anyway.

How old are those Giant Sequoias in the California parks? IIRC, some
are supposed to predate Christ.

Ok, if we need to be pedantic then you can do that.

"Bryan" wrote in message
om...
What's a "telemores"?

I think that when discussing the age of any species, it is fair to
keep in mind the difference between "forever", and a few hundred, or a
few thousand years.
Sugesting that orchids may be "immortal" is completely inaccurate, and
I just wanted to steer the discussion away from that conclusion.


Larry Dighera wrote in message
. ..
On 22 Jun 2003 16:37:39 -0700, (Bryan) wrote in
Message-Id: :

If orchids can live "forever" then that would put them in a special
category not shared by ANY OTHER living thing in known existence..
Genetic material does decay... Eventually..
No matter how old the plant, or how many times it has devided or grown
new crowns, the genetic structure is as old as the original seedling.
In other words, if the DNA is not refreshed by reproduction, and
sowing of new seed, then like anything else, the life sustaining force
of the genetic structure does eventually die out.
True, with orchids, this may take in excess of 150 years to occur,
given optimum culture... But it will happen.

Would "the life sustaining force" you mention have anything to do with
telomeres?

Like I said in another post, apparently they have found Huon Pine trees in
Tasmania recently that are even older than those.

They are now believed to be the oldest things, and boy are they huge!!!!

"janet_a" wrote in message
om...
sorry, i'm googling so i'm out of order:

age of trees---aren't the methuselah trees out west approaching
4,000 yrs old? gimme a sec...



Taking Chips Off the Oldest Blocks


By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, June 16, 2003; Page A01


When they finally found it, high in California's rugged White
Mountains, the tree looked a lot like the other stunted and windblown
evergreens scattered about: a twisted mass of sun-bleached wood,
stubborn green needles and gray crusts of bark.

But this particular bristlecone pine was different. Nicknamed
Methuselah, it has clung to its rocky patch of ground near the Nevada
border for the past 4,768 years, making it the oldest known living
tree on the planet.....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Jun15.html


ok, so almost 5,000 yrs old.


--j_a

On 23 Jun 2003 15:45:26 -0700, (Bryan) wrote in
Message-Id: :

What's a "telemores"?

telo•mere \"te-le-'mir, "te-\ noun [ISV] (1940)
: the natural end of a eukaryotic chromosome

(C)1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All
rights reserved.

Here's a link for you:
http://tinylink.com/?xgHFJEPyui


I think that when discussing the age of any species, it is fair to
keep in mind the difference between "forever", and a few hundred, or a
few thousand years.

How old would a plant have to be to qualify for consideration as a
candidate for proof of its immortality in your view?

Sugesting that orchids may be "immortal" is completely inaccurate, and
I just wanted to steer the discussion away from that conclusion.

I would be interested in learning the source of your sagacious
information. Presumably your assertion is founded on factual data.

Larry Dighera wrote in message . ..
On 22 Jun 2003 16:37:39 -0700, (Bryan) wrote in
Message-Id: :

If orchids can live "forever" then that would put them in a special
category not shared by ANY OTHER living thing in known existence..
Genetic material does decay... Eventually..
No matter how old the plant, or how many times it has devided or grown
new crowns, the genetic structure is as old as the original seedling.
In other words, if the DNA is not refreshed by reproduction, and
sowing of new seed, then like anything else, the life sustaining force
of the genetic structure does eventually die out.
True, with orchids, this may take in excess of 150 years to occur,
given optimum culture... But it will happen.

Would "the life sustaining force" you mention have anything to do with
telomeres?

Not quite as impressive by size or age, but in my neck of the woods there
are Eastern White Cedar trees over 700 years old growing on the cliff face
of the Niagara Escarpment. Orchid content - the escarpment is also home to
37 types of wild orchids.

back to lurk mode,
Jeffo



"Bolero" wrote in message
u...
And Huon Pine trees in Tasmania are supposed to be even older now.
Apparently they have discovered trees down there that outdate everything.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:03:26 +1000, "Bolero"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

Maybe it would take 1000 years? It may be a while before anyone knows
anyway.

How old are those Giant Sequoias in the California parks? IIRC, some
are supposed to predate Christ.

Hello and thanks to everyone who answerd till now. Actually my questions is
answered. And happy to know that i will have my orchids around for a while.

It is interesting to see the developping discussion. I am not a professional
biologist and posed this question just out of general interest. And I am
surprised, how people get into talk about it.

Last not least i did't expect orchids become that old. It's always nice to
learn more in and about life.

Thank you all!


CKT





C.K.T. heeft geschreven in bericht ...
Hello everybody,

Great to find this groep!

I have some Phalenopsis, Dendrobium and Paphiopedilum.

I wonder how old these orchids can become. Someone around who knows that?

Thanks,

ckt

What do you care about facts? Even your immortal cancer cell isn't
going to live any longer than it's host.
You can and should believe what you want. I now know that this forum
is not the place to find answers.. Just arguements.
If 5000 years qualifies as 'forever' to you, then what do I know, or
care..
I was actually hoping to find out myself, how long they live.. But I
see that those who do know, wouldn't bother with this forum, for good
reason.


Larry Dighera wrote in message . ..
On 23 Jun 2003 15:45:26 -0700, (Bryan) wrote in
Message-Id: :

What's a "telemores"?

telo?mere \"te-le-'mir, "te-\ noun [ISV] (1940)
: the natural end of a eukaryotic chromosome

(C)1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All
rights reserved.

Here's a link for you:
http://tinylink.com/?xgHFJEPyui


I think that when discussing the age of any species, it is fair to
keep in mind the difference between "forever", and a few hundred, or a
few thousand years.

How old would a plant have to be to qualify for consideration as a
candidate for proof of its immortality in your view?

Sugesting that orchids may be "immortal" is completely inaccurate, and
I just wanted to steer the discussion away from that conclusion.

I would be interested in learning the source of your sagacious
information. Presumably your assertion is founded on factual data.

Larry Dighera wrote in message . ..
On 22 Jun 2003 16:37:39 -0700, (Bryan) wrote in
Message-Id: :

If orchids can live "forever" then that would put them in a special
category not shared by ANY OTHER living thing in known existence..
Genetic material does decay... Eventually..
No matter how old the plant, or how many times it has devided or grown
new crowns, the genetic structure is as old as the original seedling.
In other words, if the DNA is not refreshed by reproduction, and
sowing of new seed, then like anything else, the life sustaining force
of the genetic structure does eventually die out.
True, with orchids, this may take in excess of 150 years to occur,
given optimum culture... But it will happen.

Would "the life sustaining force" you mention have anything to do with
telomeres?

On 25 Jun 2003 22:15:44 -0700, (Bryan) wrote in
Message-Id: :

I now know that this forum is not the place to find answers..


"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
nor does truth become error because nobody sees it."
~ Mohandas Gandhi

What do you care about facts? Even your immortal cancer cell isn't
going to live any longer than it's host.
You can and should believe what you want. I now know that this forum
is not the place to find answers.. Just arguements.
If 5000 years qualifies as 'forever' to you, then what do I know, or
care..
I was actually hoping to find out myself, how long they live.. But I
see that those who do know, wouldn't bother with this forum, for good
reason.


Larry Dighera wrote in message . ..
On 23 Jun 2003 15:45:26 -0700, (Bryan) wrote in
Message-Id: :

What's a "telemores"?

telo?mere \"te-le-'mir, "te-\ noun [ISV] (1940)
: the natural end of a eukaryotic chromosome

(C)1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All
rights reserved.

Here's a link for you:
http://tinylink.com/?xgHFJEPyui


I think that when discussing the age of any species, it is fair to
keep in mind the difference between "forever", and a few hundred, or a
few thousand years.

How old would a plant have to be to qualify for consideration as a
candidate for proof of its immortality in your view?

Sugesting that orchids may be "immortal" is completely inaccurate, and
I just wanted to steer the discussion away from that conclusion.

I would be interested in learning the source of your sagacious
information. Presumably your assertion is founded on factual data.

Larry Dighera wrote in message . ..
On 22 Jun 2003 16:37:39 -0700, (Bryan) wrote in
Message-Id: :

If orchids can live "forever" then that would put them in a special
category not shared by ANY OTHER living thing in known existence..
Genetic material does decay... Eventually..
No matter how old the plant, or how many times it has devided or grown
new crowns, the genetic structure is as old as the original seedling.
In other words, if the DNA is not refreshed by reproduction, and
sowing of new seed, then like anything else, the life sustaining force
of the genetic structure does eventually die out.
True, with orchids, this may take in excess of 150 years to occur,
given optimum culture... But it will happen.

Would "the life sustaining force" you mention have anything to do with
telomeres?

On 25 Jun 2003 22:15:44 -0700, (Bryan) wrote in
Message-Id: :

I now know that this forum is not the place to find answers..


"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
nor does truth become error because nobody sees it."
~ Mohandas Gandhi

Ok...To get nit-picky here.... I said "indefinately".....not "forever"!

Bryan equated indefinately to forever.

Good Growing,
Gene

Hello everybody in discussion,

I see, still answers comming in. A pitty to see is all that picking on
eachother.

I mentioned earlier that i am not a biologist, but when I read some answers
I agree. Even if English is not my mother toung i do think to understand
quite well.

Probably an answer lies somewhere in the middle.

Some orchids might become old, other species might die earlier. Probably
like with trees. Slow growing ones like (Quercus)oak tree can become very
old, and I mean real old like 15oo years if we let them get that old, and
than there are (salix) willow trees which have a short life time from about
30-40 years.
Why couldn't it be the same with orchids?

There is still to do a lot of different research on themes that scientist
don't know answers on yet. That's the nice thing about it, to discover of
find out something new.

In 200 years time from now we all will know more. Science and research still
going on. Building up knowledge for further generations.

A pitty that we as humans won't get answers to all our questions in our
relatively short life time. And good to know that plants and some animals
can get older than we do.

kind regards to everybody,

Chris







Bryan heeft geschreven in bericht
. ..
What's a "telemores"?

I think that when discussing the age of any species, it is fair to
keep in mind the difference between "forever", and a few hundred, or a
few thousand years.
Sugesting that orchids may be "immortal" is completely inaccurate, and
I just wanted to steer the discussion away from that conclusion.


Larry Dighera wrote in message
. ..
On 22 Jun 2003 16:37:39 -0700, (Bryan) wrote in
Message-Id: :

If orchids can live "forever" then that would put them in a special
category not shared by ANY OTHER living thing in known existence..
Genetic material does decay... Eventually..
No matter how old the plant, or how many times it has devided or grown
new crowns, the genetic structure is as old as the original seedling.
In other words, if the DNA is not refreshed by reproduction, and
sowing of new seed, then like anything else, the life sustaining force
of the genetic structure does eventually die out.
True, with orchids, this may take in excess of 150 years to occur,
given optimum culture... But it will happen.

Would "the life sustaining force" you mention have anything to do with
telomeres?