Judy CA wrote:

....................
I'm usually a lurker but I thought I'd reply as I have one phal (out
of 40) that displays these same symptoms. I've had it for two years
now and it's actually two phals connected in one s/h pot.

Anyways, Spring of '02 both phals started getting the yellow leaves
with black pitting. When it first started it was sudden. Lowest leaf
on both phals, then the next lowest leaf. Sunken yellow spots turning
to black. I isolated it to another room and sprayed with funginex.
That seemed to stop it. No more spread to the other leaves.
.......................

Thanks for emerging from lurk mode. Your post adds yet more evidence
that I should try Funginex.

Steve

You forgot the trick of searching within your results and adding the word
'price'

K Barrett

"Steve" wrote in message
t...


jerry bolce wrote:

This looks just like the fungus that infected my phals a few years back
and it also spreads to Cattleyas, oncidiums, etc.

I found that I needed to soak the plants regularly with Funginex for
many waterings or the fungus would just continue in the new leaves. You
need to treat the other plants also, maybe not as frequently if they
have no symptoms...........

Thanks Jerry. It sounds like Funginex is the treatment I am looking for.
At least I have something to try.

Steve
PS If anyone knows of an online source for Funginex, let me know. A
quick search didn't locate a source, though I can look more. The nearest
store that might possibly have it requires hours in the car driving from
here.

I received two personal emails that lead me to believe that microfungus is
the name given to the fungus organism or group of fungus organisms that
produce the symptoms you see in your first picture. One of the emails
mentioned that the symptoms shown in your first picture, third picture and
sixth picture to be those associated with mircofungus. I am guessing that
while fungus which produce rots are microfungus by this website's
definition, I think mircofungus, as the word is used here, is meant to
exclude the fungus that we typically refer to when we are talking about
'rots' and to refer to the fungus that cause a specific type of symptom. If
I get any more emails that shed more light on the subject, I'll let you
know.

If you ever had mites, the hort oil probably took care of them. Even a
small mite infestation can be easily followed by fungus, bacterial and virus
problems. They spread these pathogens and they leave lots of open wounds
that these pathogens can use to enter the plant. Physan will not destroy
any of these pathogen once they are *inside* the plant tissue. I have been
informed that it is not systemic. It can only destroy the pathogens on the
outside of the plants to stop them from getting in.

Burn you whole collection. In fact burn down your house. ...and then wash
hands with hot soapy water. You can buy a new house and start a new orchid
collection tomorrow.

"Steve" wrote in message
t...


Al wrote:
...................................
Microfungus (micromycete) - The term microfungus, meaning small fungus,
is
used for fungi in which a microscope must be used for even casual
observation of the spore-producing structures. The majority of fungi are
microfungi and their study requires experience with the use of
microscopes.

If this is the only meaning to the term and if it does not refer to a
specific fungus or group of fungus than "microfungus" means nothing
different from the term "fungus" as I generally see it used in this
newsgroup and applied to fungual infections of our plants............
......................

Al, that's interesting.
Obviously, the term microfungus somehow came to mean something else
among some orchid growers. I wonder if it was a misunderstanding at some
point.

Steve

Al wrote:
................................................ If
I get any more emails that shed more light on the subject, I'll let you
know.


THANK YOU



Burn you whole collection. In fact burn down your house. ...and then wash
hands with hot soapy water. You can buy a new house and start a new orchid
collection tomorrow.


I'll give that one some thought. ;-)

:-)
No, actually I didn't. I did that. I just didn't find any US companies
selling it in the time I had.

Steve

K Barrett wrote:

You forgot the trick of searching within your results and adding the word
'price'

"Steve" wrote .........................
.................................................. ..........
PS If anyone knows of an online source for Funginex, let me know. A
quick search didn't locate a source, though I can look more. The nearest
store that might possibly have it requires hours in the car driving from
here.

Hi Steve,

You know back around 1990 you could not do a major show with out hearing war
stories from other growers about their microfungus battles. It has been
years since I have heard another grower even talking about it. It has been
at least 5 years since I have seen it around here and I do see a lot of
things. Going through my old supply catalogs it seems that Triforine (one
of the chemicals used to battle it) has not been available for a couple of
years now -- I did not even miss it or know it was gone. It looks to me as
something may have changed. I think that the biggest change during this
time period is that most of the growers switched from Benlate to 3336 as
their general purpose fungicide. I can not help but wonder if 3336 is
controlling microfungus, something that Benlate never did. A couple of good
sprays with this as directed by the label might clear up the problem.

Pat

Really? There was about 5 pages of US supplirs when I did it. Try again.

K Barrett
"Steve" wrote in message
t...
:-)
No, actually I didn't. I did that. I just didn't find any US companies
selling it in the time I had.

Steve

K Barrett wrote:

You forgot the trick of searching within your results and adding the
word
'price'

"Steve" wrote .........................
.................................................. .........
PS If anyone knows of an online source for Funginex, let me know. A
quick search didn't locate a source, though I can look more. The nearest
store that might possibly have it requires hours in the car driving from
here.

K Barrett wrote:
Really? There was about 5 pages of US supplirs when I did it. Try again.

To be sure, I will. When I searched, I only had a few minutes and had to
leave. I'll spend more time on it today or tomorrow. I didn't mean to
make you think I had given up.

Steve

Well I'm curious what the "cocktail" you used was. If you don't want to
reply to the NG, just reply directly to me...

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Ray,

I am in agreement with Aaron, I think Steve has a microfungus. I was
guessing that before I even saw the pictures. I have had microfungus on
phals, I have cured it. But the only way I have successfully cured
microfungus is using a cocktail of chemicals. Two months ago when I
mentioned a cocktail Aaron replied with a post about not mixing chemicals
under the risk of toxic precipitate and wrecked buffers. Not wanting to
hear this crap again, I took my discussion with Steve out of the group. I
just find it maddening that today Aaron is giving pointers to sites
promoting chemical cocktails.

Pretending that you know more then the chemical manufactures or the
directions supplied with the chemicals does a disservice to this group.
Is
the label that comes with the chemical the "precise knowledge" we must
know
or is there more? If we follow the label are we still going to create
toxic
precipitate? If I am Steve, who or what do I believe?

Chemical labels includes a section on compatibility and yes you better
read
them and follow the directions. Randomly mixing any chemicals is a dumb
idea. But, when you take copper out of the mix, it seems that most of the
chemicals I commonly use are compatible. I am not making that up, it is
what the labels say, it is what experience has shown. Some of the more
common cocktails are even marketed as a single product, Spectro and
Banrot
to name two.

BTW, I highly recommend Spectro which is a cocktail of 3336 and Daconil as
a
broad spectrum fungicide.

Sorry about the double post, I would blame my ISP but who would believe
me.

From someone introduced to Griesbach's Blitz at a very young age,

Pat

I hope Pat replies to the group, as I have found this discussion *very*
enlightening. Thanks to Steve for bringing it up.

K Barrett
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
...
Well I'm curious what the "cocktail" you used was. If you don't want to
reply to the NG, just reply directly to me...

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Ray,

I am in agreement with Aaron, I think Steve has a microfungus. I was
guessing that before I even saw the pictures. I have had microfungus on
phals, I have cured it. But the only way I have successfully cured
microfungus is using a cocktail of chemicals. Two months ago when I
mentioned a cocktail Aaron replied with a post about not mixing
chemicals
under the risk of toxic precipitate and wrecked buffers. Not wanting to
hear this crap again, I took my discussion with Steve out of the group.
I
just find it maddening that today Aaron is giving pointers to sites
promoting chemical cocktails.

Pretending that you know more then the chemical manufactures or the
directions supplied with the chemicals does a disservice to this group.
Is
the label that comes with the chemical the "precise knowledge" we must
know
or is there more? If we follow the label are we still going to create
toxic
precipitate? If I am Steve, who or what do I believe?

Chemical labels includes a section on compatibility and yes you better
read
them and follow the directions. Randomly mixing any chemicals is a dumb
idea. But, when you take copper out of the mix, it seems that most of
the
chemicals I commonly use are compatible. I am not making that up, it is
what the labels say, it is what experience has shown. Some of the more
common cocktails are even marketed as a single product, Spectro and
Banrot
to name two.

BTW, I highly recommend Spectro which is a cocktail of 3336 and Daconil
as
a
broad spectrum fungicide.

Sorry about the double post, I would blame my ISP but who would believe
me.

From someone introduced to Griesbach's Blitz at a very young age,

Pat

I hope Pat replies to the group, as I have found this discussion *very*
enlightening. Thanks to Steve for bringing it up.

Me too.

K Barrett
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
...
Well I'm curious what the "cocktail" you used was. If you don't want to
reply to the NG, just reply directly to me...

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Ray,

I am in agreement with Aaron, I think Steve has a microfungus. I was
guessing that before I even saw the pictures. I have had microfungus
on
phals, I have cured it. But the only way I have successfully cured
microfungus is using a cocktail of chemicals. Two months ago when I
mentioned a cocktail Aaron replied with a post about not mixing
chemicals
under the risk of toxic precipitate and wrecked buffers. Not wanting
to
hear this crap again, I took my discussion with Steve out of the
group.
I
just find it maddening that today Aaron is giving pointers to sites
promoting chemical cocktails.

Pretending that you know more then the chemical manufactures or the
directions supplied with the chemicals does a disservice to this
group.
Is
the label that comes with the chemical the "precise knowledge" we must
know
or is there more? If we follow the label are we still going to create
toxic
precipitate? If I am Steve, who or what do I believe?

Chemical labels includes a section on compatibility and yes you better
read
them and follow the directions. Randomly mixing any chemicals is a
dumb
idea. But, when you take copper out of the mix, it seems that most of
the
chemicals I commonly use are compatible. I am not making that up, it
is
what the labels say, it is what experience has shown. Some of the
more
common cocktails are even marketed as a single product, Spectro and
Banrot
to name two.

BTW, I highly recommend Spectro which is a cocktail of 3336 and
Daconil
as
a
broad spectrum fungicide.

Sorry about the double post, I would blame my ISP but who would
believe
me.

From someone introduced to Griesbach's Blitz at a very young age,

Pat

you did catch the similar discussion in ABPO, right?

"K Barrett" wrote in message
.net...
I hope Pat replies to the group, as I have found this discussion *very*
enlightening. Thanks to Steve for bringing it up.

K Barrett
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
...
Well I'm curious what the "cocktail" you used was. If you don't want to
reply to the NG, just reply directly to me...

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Ray,

I am in agreement with Aaron, I think Steve has a microfungus. I was
guessing that before I even saw the pictures. I have had microfungus
on
phals, I have cured it. But the only way I have successfully cured
microfungus is using a cocktail of chemicals. Two months ago when I
mentioned a cocktail Aaron replied with a post about not mixing
chemicals
under the risk of toxic precipitate and wrecked buffers. Not wanting
to
hear this crap again, I took my discussion with Steve out of the
group.
I
just find it maddening that today Aaron is giving pointers to sites
promoting chemical cocktails.

Pretending that you know more then the chemical manufactures or the
directions supplied with the chemicals does a disservice to this
group.
Is
the label that comes with the chemical the "precise knowledge" we must
know
or is there more? If we follow the label are we still going to create
toxic
precipitate? If I am Steve, who or what do I believe?

Chemical labels includes a section on compatibility and yes you better
read
them and follow the directions. Randomly mixing any chemicals is a
dumb
idea. But, when you take copper out of the mix, it seems that most of
the
chemicals I commonly use are compatible. I am not making that up, it
is
what the labels say, it is what experience has shown. Some of the
more
common cocktails are even marketed as a single product, Spectro and
Banrot
to name two.

BTW, I highly recommend Spectro which is a cocktail of 3336 and
Daconil
as
a
broad spectrum fungicide.

Sorry about the double post, I would blame my ISP but who would
believe
me.

From someone introduced to Griesbach's Blitz at a very young age,

Pat

Yes, I've been following it in both places. I'm going to send Steve's web
page URL to Janice Uchida at the Univ of Hawaii and see what she may say
about 'microfungi'. I was thinking about Pat's comments about Benlate and
suddenly realized that most of what I know about the prophylactic use of
fungicides comes from very wet environments - like the tropics of Florida
and Hawaii. Which isn't like a back bedroom/basement in the Adironacks of
New York State. (Steve's conditions). So, I'm using this as an opportunity
to learn more.

She probably won't answer me. But hey, she may be in a good mood after the
long weekend. *G*

K Barrett
(Janice Uchida , PhD is in the plant pathology dept at U Hawaii, and does a
lot of work on Dendrobium blights which decimate the Hawaiin cut flower
industry. I saw her give a talk at the American Horticulture Association a
few years back.)

"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
news:YTJ4b.246406$Oz4.65805@rwcrnsc54...
you did catch the similar discussion in ABPO, right?

"K Barrett" wrote in message
.net...
I hope Pat replies to the group, as I have found this discussion *very*
enlightening. Thanks to Steve for bringing it up.

K Barrett
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
...
Well I'm curious what the "cocktail" you used was. If you don't want
to
reply to the NG, just reply directly to me...

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Ray,

I am in agreement with Aaron, I think Steve has a microfungus. I
was
guessing that before I even saw the pictures. I have had
microfungus
on
phals, I have cured it. But the only way I have successfully cured
microfungus is using a cocktail of chemicals. Two months ago when I
mentioned a cocktail Aaron replied with a post about not mixing
chemicals
under the risk of toxic precipitate and wrecked buffers. Not
wanting
to
hear this crap again, I took my discussion with Steve out of the
group.
I
just find it maddening that today Aaron is giving pointers to sites
promoting chemical cocktails.

Pretending that you know more then the chemical manufactures or the
directions supplied with the chemicals does a disservice to this
group.
Is
the label that comes with the chemical the "precise knowledge" we
must
know
or is there more? If we follow the label are we still going to
create
toxic
precipitate? If I am Steve, who or what do I believe?

Chemical labels includes a section on compatibility and yes you
better
read
them and follow the directions. Randomly mixing any chemicals is a
dumb
idea. But, when you take copper out of the mix, it seems that most
of
the
chemicals I commonly use are compatible. I am not making that up,
it
is
what the labels say, it is what experience has shown. Some of the
more
common cocktails are even marketed as a single product, Spectro and
Banrot
to name two.

BTW, I highly recommend Spectro which is a cocktail of 3336 and
Daconil
as
a
broad spectrum fungicide.

Sorry about the double post, I would blame my ISP but who would
believe
me.

From someone introduced to Griesbach's Blitz at a very young age,

Pat

I reviewed my notes from Janice Uchida's talk at the ASHA convention in
2001. I seem to recall she said that the mycelium stage infects the host
bodily. By the time we see the effects of this infection the host is toast,
the mycellium has gone on to produce fruiting bodies by the time we see
sunken spots (or whatever) and has spred spores. These spores spread to
adjacent plants and poof. She told of how whole GHs of Hawaiian cut flower
dendrobiums will wilt overnight into mush. She said prevention is the cure,
via cleanliness.

I have no idea whether that helps Steve out.

Funginex is now sold by Ortho as "Rose Pride Rose & Shrub Disease Control".
The active ingredient is the Triforine that Pat Brennan thought was no
longer in production. (present at 6.5%).

According to package directions it can be mixed with Ortho Malathione Plus
and Ortho Diazinone Ultra - follow label rates.

I will search to see if triforine is systemic or not. I'm betting 'not'.

K Barrett

"Al" wrote in message
...
This term "microfungus" is new to me. I looked at the pictures on Steve's
website again with this is mind and wonder why there seems to be so many
different expressions of damage? It is hard to see all of the various
damage symptoms as common to one organism, but I suppose it is possible.
I
did a websearch and found a few bits of information. I want to know
whether
this is an organism that lives IN and spreads though the plant or if it
live
ON the plant's surface tissue. Fungi, as I understand them have several
life stages. At some point it has to reproduce and would make fruiting
bodies at the surface of the leaf that would spread it to new plants. If
the "mycelium stage" of the fungus lives inside the plant and travels from
cell to cell than wouldn't you need to target it with some kind of
systemic
fungicide that the plant could absorb rather than a topical fungicide
that?
Is it living off the tissue like a parasite or just clogging transport of
nutrients and water as it grows from cell to cell, and tissue type to
tissue
type etc?

How is a microfungus different from the regular fungus that we as orchid
growers are always battling? (You know, the stuff we call 'rots' and
which
could as likely be a bacterial infection.)

Is Physan systemic? I know it kills spores on surfaces but would it have
any effect on fungus growing inside and being protected by the plant
tissue
from coming into contact with the chemical? This may be the reason behind
the cocktail idea, one to kill the spores outside the plant and one to
kill
the actual fungus inside the plant. Daconil is systemic, right? Is there
another reason why a cocktail is necessary? (We don't really know what it
is so we hit is with everything we've got?) :-)

You don't necessarily have to MIX the chemicals to have them both
available
for use. You might be better off to separate their application by a few
days to produce the desired effect.


"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Ray,

I am in agreement with Aaron, I think Steve has a microfungus. I was
guessing that before I even saw the pictures. I have had microfungus on
phals, I have cured it. But the only way I have successfully cured
microfungus is using a cocktail of chemicals. Two months ago when I
mentioned a cocktail Aaron replied with a post about not mixing
chemicals
under the risk of toxic precipitate and wrecked buffers. Not wanting to
hear this crap again, I took my discussion with Steve out of the group.
I
just find it maddening that today Aaron is giving pointers to sites
promoting chemical cocktails.

Pretending that you know more then the chemical manufactures or the
directions supplied with the chemicals does a disservice to this group.
Is
the label that comes with the chemical the "precise knowledge" we must
know
or is there more? If we follow the label are we still going to create
toxic
precipitate? If I am Steve, who or what do I believe?

Chemical labels includes a section on compatibility and yes you better
read
them and follow the directions. Randomly mixing any chemicals is a dumb
idea. But, when you take copper out of the mix, it seems that most of
the
chemicals I commonly use are compatible. I am not making that up, it is
what the labels say, it is what experience has shown. Some of the more
common cocktails are even marketed as a single product, Spectro and
Banrot
to name two.

BTW, I highly recommend Spectro which is a cocktail of 3336 and Daconil
as
a
broad spectrum fungicide.

Sorry about the double post, I would blame my ISP but who would believe
me.

From someone introduced to Griesbach's Blitz at a very young age,

Pat

I'm pretty sure I remember from my chemical rose growing days that it is a
systemic.

"K Barrett" wrote in message
et...
I reviewed my notes from Janice Uchida's talk at the ASHA convention in
2001. I seem to recall she said that the mycelium stage infects the host
bodily. By the time we see the effects of this infection the host is
toast,
the mycellium has gone on to produce fruiting bodies by the time we see
sunken spots (or whatever) and has spred spores. These spores spread to
adjacent plants and poof. She told of how whole GHs of Hawaiian cut flower
dendrobiums will wilt overnight into mush. She said prevention is the
cure,
via cleanliness.

I have no idea whether that helps Steve out.

Funginex is now sold by Ortho as "Rose Pride Rose & Shrub Disease
Control".
The active ingredient is the Triforine that Pat Brennan thought was no
longer in production. (present at 6.5%).

According to package directions it can be mixed with Ortho Malathione Plus
and Ortho Diazinone Ultra - follow label rates.

I will search to see if triforine is systemic or not. I'm betting 'not'.

K Barrett

"Al" wrote in message
...
This term "microfungus" is new to me. I looked at the pictures on
Steve's
website again with this is mind and wonder why there seems to be so many
different expressions of damage? It is hard to see all of the various
damage symptoms as common to one organism, but I suppose it is possible.
I
did a websearch and found a few bits of information. I want to know
whether
this is an organism that lives IN and spreads though the plant or if it
live
ON the plant's surface tissue. Fungi, as I understand them have several
life stages. At some point it has to reproduce and would make fruiting
bodies at the surface of the leaf that would spread it to new plants.
If
the "mycelium stage" of the fungus lives inside the plant and travels
from
cell to cell than wouldn't you need to target it with some kind of
systemic
fungicide that the plant could absorb rather than a topical fungicide
that?
Is it living off the tissue like a parasite or just clogging transport
of
nutrients and water as it grows from cell to cell, and tissue type to
tissue
type etc?

How is a microfungus different from the regular fungus that we as orchid
growers are always battling? (You know, the stuff we call 'rots' and
which
could as likely be a bacterial infection.)

Is Physan systemic? I know it kills spores on surfaces but would it
have
any effect on fungus growing inside and being protected by the plant
tissue
from coming into contact with the chemical? This may be the reason
behind
the cocktail idea, one to kill the spores outside the plant and one to
kill
the actual fungus inside the plant. Daconil is systemic, right? Is
there
another reason why a cocktail is necessary? (We don't really know what
it
is so we hit is with everything we've got?) :-)

You don't necessarily have to MIX the chemicals to have them both
available
for use. You might be better off to separate their application by a few
days to produce the desired effect.


"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Ray,

I am in agreement with Aaron, I think Steve has a microfungus. I was
guessing that before I even saw the pictures. I have had microfungus
on
phals, I have cured it. But the only way I have successfully cured
microfungus is using a cocktail of chemicals. Two months ago when I
mentioned a cocktail Aaron replied with a post about not mixing
chemicals
under the risk of toxic precipitate and wrecked buffers. Not wanting
to
hear this crap again, I took my discussion with Steve out of the
group.
I
just find it maddening that today Aaron is giving pointers to sites
promoting chemical cocktails.

Pretending that you know more then the chemical manufactures or the
directions supplied with the chemicals does a disservice to this
group.
Is
the label that comes with the chemical the "precise knowledge" we must
know
or is there more? If we follow the label are we still going to create
toxic
precipitate? If I am Steve, who or what do I believe?

Chemical labels includes a section on compatibility and yes you better
read
them and follow the directions. Randomly mixing any chemicals is a
dumb
idea. But, when you take copper out of the mix, it seems that most of
the
chemicals I commonly use are compatible. I am not making that up, it
is
what the labels say, it is what experience has shown. Some of the
more
common cocktails are even marketed as a single product, Spectro and
Banrot
to name two.

BTW, I highly recommend Spectro which is a cocktail of 3336 and
Daconil
as
a
broad spectrum fungicide.

Sorry about the double post, I would blame my ISP but who would
believe
me.

From someone introduced to Griesbach's Blitz at a very young age,

Pat