OK- first the phals.... I've got 20 or so, and I've only been doing
the orchid thing about 8 months now. Many of them I got when they
were in bloom, and they faded (although I did lop the spike off on all
of them to get a second bloom...) so I cut the spikes back. So now
I'm waiting on my first, and their 2nd+, blooming. I understand that
Phal's are well liked because of their long/many blooming period- so
when do I get some blooms? It's been maybe 4 months or so, and I'm
getting new growth and I've repotted where necessary, but no spikes.
And you can tell me that I'm just being greedy.... If I have to wait,
so be it, but I'm looking for some idea on when I should worry. I'm
sure that surviving through temps way too high (a few 100 deg days,
many 90+) in a MO summer didn't help. Perhaps I'm looking for someone
to tell me that things are OK, they're just mad at the temps and will
repay me with the cooler fall temps....

Also, I have a very basic sort of question about my Dends. I got most
of them from the local Lowe's dead and dying rack and brought 'em
home. Most of them were a withered cane with few leaves, just past
bloom. I brought 'em home, loved them, and all 20+ of them are putting
on new growth like mad- all with new leaves on old canes, and all are
putting up new canes. Even a few kekei's in the mix. The general rule
is that Nobile Dends do not need the dry period, right? So I should
stop watering most of mine (hybrids) and start again when I see flower
buds? It has been amazing to see plants that looked like kindling
burst forth with new growth.... And now I'm not supposed to water
them?!?

Thanks to all the group- you've been more help than you can
imagine....

kevin

On 17 Sep 2003 21:46:46 -0700, (Kevin) wrote:

OK- first the phals.... I've got 20 or so, and I've only been doing
the orchid thing about 8 months now. Many of them I got when they
were in bloom, and they faded (although I did lop the spike off on all
of them to get a second bloom...) so I cut the spikes back. So now
I'm waiting on my first, and their 2nd+, blooming. I understand that
Phal's are well liked because of their long/many blooming period- so
when do I get some blooms? It's been maybe 4 months or so, and I'm
getting new growth and I've repotted where necessary, but no spikes.
And you can tell me that I'm just being greedy.... If I have to wait,
so be it, but I'm looking for some idea on when I should worry. I'm
sure that surviving through temps way too high (a few 100 deg days,
many 90+) in a MO summer didn't help. Perhaps I'm looking for someone
to tell me that things are OK, they're just mad at the temps and will
repay me with the cooler fall temps....

Also, I have a very basic sort of question about my Dends. I got most
of them from the local Lowe's dead and dying rack and brought 'em
home. Most of them were a withered cane with few leaves, just past
bloom. I brought 'em home, loved them, and all 20+ of them are putting
on new growth like mad- all with new leaves on old canes, and all are
putting up new canes. Even a few kekei's in the mix. The general rule
is that Nobile Dends do not need the dry period, right? So I should
stop watering most of mine (hybrids) and start again when I see flower
buds? It has been amazing to see plants that looked like kindling
burst forth with new growth.... And now I'm not supposed to water
them?!?

Thanks to all the group- you've been more help than you can
imagine....

kevin

SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

Well, I'm no expert on phal but for me they are not that easy to rebloom.
Don't realy know why. But they sound like they are doing ok. Give them a
chance, they will probably rebloom, but maybe they need to recover from the
last time. Let them grow and be patient, that would be my advise.

The dendrobiums, well I've often been told that a lot of them need rest, but
never done it myself. Only my dendrobium delicatum and kingianum get a rest,
all the others are watered and cared for like all my other plants and
rebloom every year.
So maybe experiment with some of them. I wouldn't give them any rest while
there are new growths. Let them finish growing and perhaps then let some of
them rest.
Just my opinion.
Peter

"Kevin" schreef in bericht
om...
OK- first the phals.... I've got 20 or so, and I've only been doing
the orchid thing about 8 months now. Many of them I got when they
were in bloom, and they faded (although I did lop the spike off on all
of them to get a second bloom...) so I cut the spikes back. So now
I'm waiting on my first, and their 2nd+, blooming. I understand that
Phal's are well liked because of their long/many blooming period- so
when do I get some blooms? It's been maybe 4 months or so, and I'm
getting new growth and I've repotted where necessary, but no spikes.
And you can tell me that I'm just being greedy.... If I have to wait,
so be it, but I'm looking for some idea on when I should worry. I'm
sure that surviving through temps way too high (a few 100 deg days,
many 90+) in a MO summer didn't help. Perhaps I'm looking for someone
to tell me that things are OK, they're just mad at the temps and will
repay me with the cooler fall temps....

Also, I have a very basic sort of question about my Dends. I got most
of them from the local Lowe's dead and dying rack and brought 'em
home. Most of them were a withered cane with few leaves, just past
bloom. I brought 'em home, loved them, and all 20+ of them are putting
on new growth like mad- all with new leaves on old canes, and all are
putting up new canes. Even a few kekei's in the mix. The general rule
is that Nobile Dends do not need the dry period, right? So I should
stop watering most of mine (hybrids) and start again when I see flower
buds? It has been amazing to see plants that looked like kindling
burst forth with new growth.... And now I'm not supposed to water
them?!?

Thanks to all the group- you've been more help than you can
imagine....

kevin

"Kevin" wrote in message
om...
OK- first the phals.... I've got 20 or so, and I've only been doing
the orchid thing about 8 months now. Many of them I got when they
were in bloom, and they faded (although I did lop the spike off on all
of them to get a second bloom...) so I cut the spikes back. So now
I'm waiting on my first, and their 2nd+, blooming. I understand that
Phal's are well liked because of their long/many blooming period- so
when do I get some blooms? It's been maybe 4 months or so, and I'm
getting new growth and I've repotted where necessary, but no spikes.
And you can tell me that I'm just being greedy.... If I have to wait,
so be it, but I'm looking for some idea on when I should worry. I'm
sure that surviving through temps way too high (a few 100 deg days,
many 90+) in a MO summer didn't help. Perhaps I'm looking for someone
to tell me that things are OK, they're just mad at the temps and will
repay me with the cooler fall temps....

I am not sure what to say about the dends. I have new growth on almost all
of them, but I haven't rebloomed any yet.

It is almost certain that the temps you saw were not a problem, unless you
let them get too dry. After all, phals are normally distributed through the
tropics and subtropics of the far east, and, I can tell you from living
there for a couple of years several years ago, it often gets much hotter
there (at sea level) than it did where you are. But there is plenty of
variability even there, so if you have phals more suitable to the very high
elevations in tropical asia, it may have been a wee bit too warm for them,
but that doesn't seem to be very likely, especially since you report that
they seem to be healthy enough to grow.

As for the phals, it isn't unusual to see an annual cycle. My irises,
planted in my garden, bloomed in the late spring, and I won't see them bloom
until next spring. The point it, seasonality is commonplace, and that is
true of tropical plants and ecosystems (but in the tropics the seasonaility
has more to do with rainfall than temperature, but because of the rain,
temperature too varies even in the tropics - it just isn't as extreme as it
is here). I have managed to rebloom some of my phals, and that a few weeks
after the last bloom faded, but that was in response to repotting after the
last bloom faded and it was from the original inflorescence. And, I have
another that is in spike right now, sending a new infloresence from the top
node of the old infloresence (I let the plant tell me what it wants cut and
when, so in some cases I have cut the old infloresence right down, and some
only to the top node that hadn't produced a bloom, and still others not at
all).

But the majority of my phals have not rebloomed yet, and I do not expect new
infloresences to start developing until later this autumn. We're just
beginning to get some cool nights with pleasant days continuing. But I am
not certain even of this because only a couple of them have sent up a new
leaf (the ones that have are, with one exception, either seedlings or
keikis), and I do not know if there is any seasonal pattern in leaf
production as there seems to be in flowering. And who knows, maybe the
plants were sufficiently stressed that they'll skip a year or two. Phals
are indeed well liked because of their long lasting flowering period, and
with the phals I bought, the blooms typically lasted several months, but
that doesn't mean you don't have to be patient.

You say you repotted as necessary. Did you repot all of them, or were there
some that the vendour told you had been repotted shortly before you bought
them? And, if you were told by a vendor that a given phal didn't need to be
repotted, how much do you trust him? The first catt I bought is now dead,
and it died basically because the vendour had not repotted it in many years,
and what likely had been bark was so degraded it looked like fine mud, and
all of the roots on the plant were dead. I was able to keep it going for
onths, hoping it would recover, but alas, there was one hot dry week
recently when I was so busy I forgot my usual watering cycle, and while none
of the other orchids were adversely affected by my negligence, it was too
weak to survive it. But the point is, not all vendors are trustworthy, and
you may have received bad advice. With any newly acquired plant, it is good
practice to repot every new plant once it has finished blooming unless you
bought it from a vendor you know and trust (based on experience with other
plants bought from him), and he tells you it won't need to be repotted for
another year or two because he had repotted it himself relatively recently.
The reason is, you want to be able to see just how healthy or sickly the
roots are and how fresh the medium is, and the only way to do that is to
repot it yourself, or take the word of a vendor you know you can trust. I
always repot plants obtained from a place like Home Depot or the local
garden centre, and I always repot at least the first few plants from any
vendor, until based on what I observe when repotting, I determine that the
vendor is trustworthy. Of course, if I find, from the first few plants from
a given vendor, that the roots are usually in very bad shape, I won't be
buying anything further from that vendor anyway, but that is another story.
I have a few vendors that I would trust implicitly, some of whom invariably
tell me when I bought that I ought to repot when the bloom is done (and
often that is because they bought the plants in bloom relatively recently),
and others tell me which of the plants I bought they had recently repotted
and which they had not, and I know from experience that their plants are
invariably in great shape, with very robust roots.

As for whether or not you should worry, or when you should worry, I'd
suggest you wait either a couple years or until the plants stop growing and
start to die, whichever comes first. ;-)

Cheers,

Ted

Kevin ) wrote:
: Also, I have a very basic sort of question about my Dends. I got most
: of them from the local Lowe's dead and dying rack and brought 'em
: home. Most of them were a withered cane with few leaves, just past
: bloom. I brought 'em home, loved them, and all 20+ of them are putting
: on new growth like mad- all with new leaves on old canes, and all are
: putting up new canes. Even a few kekei's in the mix. The general rule
: is that Nobile Dends do not need the dry period, right?

No, they should be rested (i.e. have a dry period) after the new growth
matures.

: So I should
: stop watering most of mine (hybrids) and start again when I see flower
: buds? It has been amazing to see plants that looked like kindling
: burst forth with new growth.... And now I'm not supposed to water
: them?!?

If they're growing they should be watered. Sometimes though they don't
grow according to schedule. My nobile didn't send up a new cane until
somewhere around June this year. It'll be interesting to see how long
it takes for it to mature.

Dave

Kevin,

Regarding your Phals, most are annual bloomers, and the new spikes are
encouraged by cooler weather in fall and early winter, when you hope for a
temp differential in the area of 10 to 15 degrees, day to night. Once they
bloom again, if you treat them right you will have blooms for months. I
have one Phal that is still blooming (since last winter), and needs
repotting. I'm going to cut the spike down and put it in a vase. The plant
needs time to rejuvenate.

Nobile Dendrobiums need a winter rest, in most cases for a couple to three
months. When growth stops, deny water and fertilizer. If you grow outside,
as I do, don't worry about what nature gives the plants. Resume water and
food when new growth appears.

Hope this helps.

Diana

Kevin,

Regarding your Phals, most are annual bloomers, and the new spikes are
encouraged by cooler weather in fall and early winter, when you hope for a
temp differential in the area of 10 to 15 degrees, day to night. Once they
bloom again, if you treat them right you will have blooms for months. I
have one Phal that is still blooming (since last winter), and needs
repotting. I'm going to cut the spike down and put it in a vase. The plant
needs time to rejuvenate.

Nobile Dendrobiums need a winter rest, in most cases for a couple to three
months. When growth stops, deny water and fertilizer. If you grow outside,
as I do, don't worry about what nature gives the plants. Resume water and
food when new growth appears.

Hope this helps.

Diana

i only have two phals one of them has rebloomed,i cut it back to a lower
eye,it grew new leaves then a new flower spike, this within a couple of
months.i have done the same with the other phal ,it has new growth but no
flower spike as yet,this one has been like this for a few months!i would cut
down the fertilizer for a bit ,i was advised not to cut the whole spike back
but only to a lower eye!
some people my say this will exhuast the plant,i say i would prefer to see
blooms than a load of ugly leaves.
"Kevin" wrote in message
om...
OK- first the phals.... I've got 20 or so, and I've only been doing
the orchid thing about 8 months now. Many of them I got when they
were in bloom, and they faded (although I did lop the spike off on all
of them to get a second bloom...) so I cut the spikes back. So now
I'm waiting on my first, and their 2nd+, blooming. I understand that
Phal's are well liked because of their long/many blooming period- so
when do I get some blooms? It's been maybe 4 months or so, and I'm
getting new growth and I've repotted where necessary, but no spikes.
And you can tell me that I'm just being greedy.... If I have to wait,
so be it, but I'm looking for some idea on when I should worry. I'm
sure that surviving through temps way too high (a few 100 deg days,
many 90+) in a MO summer didn't help. Perhaps I'm looking for someone
to tell me that things are OK, they're just mad at the temps and will
repay me with the cooler fall temps....

Also, I have a very basic sort of question about my Dends. I got most
of them from the local Lowe's dead and dying rack and brought 'em
home. Most of them were a withered cane with few leaves, just past
bloom. I brought 'em home, loved them, and all 20+ of them are putting
on new growth like mad- all with new leaves on old canes, and all are
putting up new canes. Even a few kekei's in the mix. The general rule
is that Nobile Dends do not need the dry period, right? So I should
stop watering most of mine (hybrids) and start again when I see flower
buds? It has been amazing to see plants that looked like kindling
burst forth with new growth.... And now I'm not supposed to water
them?!?

Thanks to all the group- you've been more help than you can
imagine....

kevin

i only have two phals one of them has rebloomed,i cut it back to a lower
eye,it grew new leaves then a new flower spike, this within a couple of
months.i have done the same with the other phal ,it has new growth but no
flower spike as yet,this one has been like this for a few months!i would cut
down the fertilizer for a bit ,i was advised not to cut the whole spike back
but only to a lower eye!
some people my say this will exhuast the plant,i say i would prefer to see
blooms than a load of ugly leaves.
"Kevin" wrote in message
om...
OK- first the phals.... I've got 20 or so, and I've only been doing
the orchid thing about 8 months now. Many of them I got when they
were in bloom, and they faded (although I did lop the spike off on all
of them to get a second bloom...) so I cut the spikes back. So now
I'm waiting on my first, and their 2nd+, blooming. I understand that
Phal's are well liked because of their long/many blooming period- so
when do I get some blooms? It's been maybe 4 months or so, and I'm
getting new growth and I've repotted where necessary, but no spikes.
And you can tell me that I'm just being greedy.... If I have to wait,
so be it, but I'm looking for some idea on when I should worry. I'm
sure that surviving through temps way too high (a few 100 deg days,
many 90+) in a MO summer didn't help. Perhaps I'm looking for someone
to tell me that things are OK, they're just mad at the temps and will
repay me with the cooler fall temps....

Also, I have a very basic sort of question about my Dends. I got most
of them from the local Lowe's dead and dying rack and brought 'em
home. Most of them were a withered cane with few leaves, just past
bloom. I brought 'em home, loved them, and all 20+ of them are putting
on new growth like mad- all with new leaves on old canes, and all are
putting up new canes. Even a few kekei's in the mix. The general rule
is that Nobile Dends do not need the dry period, right? So I should
stop watering most of mine (hybrids) and start again when I see flower
buds? It has been amazing to see plants that looked like kindling
burst forth with new growth.... And now I'm not supposed to water
them?!?

Thanks to all the group- you've been more help than you can
imagine....

kevin

Keith,

Whether one cuts back the spike all the way or just enough to encourage new
blooms is to some extent a matter of preference. But I must add a caveat:
At some point the plant must have time to rejuvenate. Second blooming
induced on a spike is usually not as floriferous as the first blooms, and
forcing can reduce the probability that flowering during the next normal
bloom season will be of highest quality.

Finally, examine the plant before you make that decision. If the plant is
vigorous and even producing a new leaf then it may be able to withstand the
forcing. If it is looking droopy or in any way stressed, I wouldn't take
the chance.

Of course, anyone fairly new to orchids is anxious to see as many flowers as
possible. We've all done it!

Diana

Wow- thanks. From all that has been said, I'll take it I shouldn't
worry. The Phal's were mostly repotted in new stuff if A) they had
been knocked over too many times at the Home Depot and were falling
out of their pots or B) a visual inspection said the medium was broken
down. Many of the rest I haven't repotted, and apparently I should.
Many of the other plants were picked up through my local orchid
society- I'm lucky enough to live in St. Louis, and the local orchid
society is amazing. Many I bought at the local society sale, and I
must say all of the plants were pampered, beyond healthy. Many were
from local nurseries, and they all are well respected almost seem to
try to show off at such functions. I can't imagine all of their plants
could be of such quality.... The Missouri Botanical Gardens even
donated a couple of plants- specimen plants that were the size of
shrubbery. I wish everyone was lucky enough to have such a resource.

But back to the topic- the general consent is that the Phal's will
bloom when they are good and ready, but the new growth should keep me
from fear. As for the Dends, they may or may not need a rest, but if
they are putting on nw growth, keep watering. When you say mature, do
you mean that the new "shoots" will go from all green, to turning to
more of a papery cane like the older stuff of what? Heck, right now
they are all putting out new shoots, new leaves, kekis, tiny little
plantlets at the base, everything but blooms. So keep 'em watered, and
they'll let me know when they are done and ready for a rest and a
bloom? Right?

Again, thanks for everything. Many of the other newsgroups I read get
mean and crabby, but orchid folks seem to always remain civil... I
guess any group of folks who would lovingly water a stick for three
years in hopes that something might happen sometime can't be that bad,
huh?

Happy growing!
Kevin

Civil? You haven't seen a flame war yet! LOL

Diana

"Kevin" wrote in message
om...
Wow- thanks. From all that has been said, I'll take it I shouldn't
worry. The Phal's were mostly repotted in new stuff if A) they had
been knocked over too many times at the Home Depot and were falling
out of their pots or B) a visual inspection said the medium was broken
down. Many of the rest I haven't repotted, and apparently I should.
Many of the other plants were picked up through my local orchid
society- I'm lucky enough to live in St. Louis, and the local orchid
society is amazing. Many I bought at the local society sale, and I
must say all of the plants were pampered, beyond healthy. Many were
from local nurseries, and they all are well respected almost seem to
try to show off at such functions. I can't imagine all of their plants
could be of such quality.... The Missouri Botanical Gardens even
donated a couple of plants- specimen plants that were the size of
shrubbery. I wish everyone was lucky enough to have such a resource.

But back to the topic- the general consent is that the Phal's will
bloom when they are good and ready, but the new growth should keep me
from fear. As for the Dends, they may or may not need a rest, but if
they are putting on nw growth, keep watering. When you say mature, do
you mean that the new "shoots" will go from all green, to turning to
more of a papery cane like the older stuff of what? Heck, right now
they are all putting out new shoots, new leaves, kekis, tiny little
plantlets at the base, everything but blooms. So keep 'em watered, and
they'll let me know when they are done and ready for a rest and a
bloom? Right?

Again, thanks for everything. Many of the other newsgroups I read get
mean and crabby, but orchid folks seem to always remain civil... I
guess any group of folks who would lovingly water a stick for three
years in hopes that something might happen sometime can't be that bad,
huh?

Happy growing!
Kevin

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 00:24:39 GMT, "Diana Kulaga"
wrote:

Civil? You haven't seen a flame war yet! LOL

Diana

Now Diana - Don't suggest one start. IT has been civil around
here for ages..... lets continue.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php