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A.O.S. Selling Plants
Hi All, Has anyone noticed that The A.O.S. headquarters in DelRay
Beach is selling orchid plants at wholesale prices??? This to the detriment of any commercial growers in the area. This passed weekend they held a blowout sale!! They sent notices to all south Florida Orchid Societies to the effect that on 10/11-12 they would sell plants to society members at greatly reduced prices. (how much lower can they go????) What makes this especially disgusting is that they timed their sale to coincide with the Fort Pierce Orchid Society's Show. This show was A.O.S. sanctioned and judged--so they can't say they didn't know. Was this an attempt to hurt the Fort Pierce Show???? You can bet on it!!! Are they slapping commercial growers in the area, in the face??? You can bet on it!! Another thing that is unethical AND illegal is that they are using their TAX EXEMPT status to advertise all of this. Orchid Societies and commercial growers account for most of the A.O.S. membership. (not only do all of the above pay dues, but they distribute more membership applications than anyone else!!!!! I am told that Lee Cook is primarily responsable for this. TRY TO GET HIM ON THE PHONE, OR TRY TO GET HIM TO RETURN PHONE CALLS!!!!! They are laying themselves wide open for a class-action lawsuit. I hope this can be stopped, but so far the "Powers that be" seem to be thumbing their noses at us "Little Folks" who are so dumb--that every election time we blindly send in our proxies so that "THE BIG WHEELS" stay in power & pretty much do as they please. If you want to contact Lee ---just tell the operator who answers the phone that you want to make a large donation---He'll respond to that !!!!! Bill |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
The subject of AOS competition with professional growers has been discussed
here before, and drew mixed reactions. I very much appreciated the very supportive email I received from the many of you who fully understood the unfairness of AOS' abuse of its non-profit status in this regard (and I thank those of you who complained to AOS about it). Although I think it short-sighted, I can also understand the position of those few who are (at least temporarily) enjoying the opportunity to purchase orchids at far less than their fair market value at the AOS gift shop. But for AOS to treat one of its own affiliated societies so shabbily just flat boggles my mind! An OS's show is usually its single major fundraiser for the year; if it doesn't make money there, it has to get it elsewhere [most likely a dues increase], cut back on expenses [e.g., canned AOS presentations instead of paid speakers at meetings], or perhaps even fold up shop altogether -- in which case, I wonder how many of its former members will continue paying their AOS dues??? -- Kenni Judd Juno Beach Orchids http://www.jborchids.com "William Hill" wrote in message om... Hi All, Has anyone noticed that The A.O.S. headquarters in DelRay Beach is selling orchid plants at wholesale prices??? This to the detriment of any commercial growers in the area. This passed weekend they held a blowout sale!! They sent notices to all south Florida Orchid Societies to the effect that on 10/11-12 they would sell plants to society members at greatly reduced prices. (how much lower can they go????) What makes this especially disgusting is that they timed their sale to coincide with the Fort Pierce Orchid Society's Show. This show was A.O.S. sanctioned and judged--so they can't say they didn't know. Was this an attempt to hurt the Fort Pierce Show???? You can bet on it!!! Are they slapping commercial growers in the area, in the face??? You can bet on it!! Another thing that is unethical AND illegal is that they are using their TAX EXEMPT status to advertise all of this. Orchid Societies and commercial growers account for most of the A.O.S. membership. (not only do all of the above pay dues, but they distribute more membership applications than anyone else!!!!! I am told that Lee Cook is primarily responsable for this. TRY TO GET HIM ON THE PHONE, OR TRY TO GET HIM TO RETURN PHONE CALLS!!!!! They are laying themselves wide open for a class-action lawsuit. I hope this can be stopped, but so far the "Powers that be" seem to be thumbing their noses at us "Little Folks" who are so dumb--that every election time we blindly send in our proxies so that "THE BIG WHEELS" stay in power & pretty much do as they please. If you want to contact Lee ---just tell the operator who answers the phone that you want to make a large donation---He'll respond to that !!!!! Bill |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:28:24 -0400, "Kenni Judd"
wrote: The subject of AOS competition with professional growers has been discussed here before, and drew mixed reactions. It certainly sounds unfair and a poor way for the organization to treat their members. I'm not currently an AOS member, but it would seem reasonable for those who are members to send email or write to AOS and get their official response / position. deg |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
Whoa, Bill!
I didn't know about this situation. My next question is, "Why didn't I know?". If a letter went out to the societies, I ought to have it. Hmm. In any event, though I personally think that the situation you described begs to be corrected, it didn't hurt Fort Pierce, thankfully. It was a great, busy show. Diana |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:04:55 GMT, "Diana Kulaga"
wrote: In any event, though I personally think that the situation you described begs to be corrected, it didn't hurt Fort Pierce, thankfully. It was a great, busy show. Diana How far are you from Headquarters? I do think it begs the question. They should not be in direct competition with any OS sponsored event within reasonable distance. And any large scale sale should include members all over. A steady small scaled sale I would expect to turn over the excess plants from the collection. On the other hand Bill, I can not see how they are calling this "n/p business" and not taxable business such as when a church owns apartment buildings. SuE http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
In the interest of fairness here is Lee Cooke's response to Kenni and
William He responded on the AOS Forum, where this thread originated. K Barrett Lee writes as follows: Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Ms. Judd and Mr. Hill. I apologize for the AOS if we've upset anyone with your society. As the "season" starts coming into focus down here in South Florida, there will be more and more orchid events and sales. Indeed, it's difficult to schedule an event or sale down here that *doesn't* bump into another affiliated-society or commercial-grower activity. This weekend, for example, featured for our area's orchidists two pretty neat temptations -- your show and the SFOS's prestigious speakers day. The AOS is, obviously, always trying to draw folks to the AOS Visitors Center and Botanical Garden; spread the good word about our mutual passion; and grow our membership. If we're successful, more aficionados mean more local society members and more visits to local commercial growers, and, ultimately, more readers of commercial growers' ads in Orchids magazine. It's unlikely that we can totally avoid schedule conflicts, but one of the ways that we've addressed that issue is to never offer anything associated with a "y'all come visit" promotion in a singular, one-day format. Like your own show, any promotions that we do are held over a multi-day period, thus giving the area's orchidists, residents and visitors plenty of opportunity to easily attend multiple orchid affairs during a single weekend. In this particular case, we're running the sale in question for *nine* days, which encompass *two* weekends. And, it is a sale on books and merchandise only, not plants. Mr. Hill, with all due respect, the requests that we sent to local affiliates to run the word of the promotion in their newsletters (if they had space and were inclined to do so) was generated as a promotion with one thing in mind: to do something nice for our valued affiliated societies. Letting the local societies' members into the botanical garden for free and offering them sales on books and merchandise that we thought their orchidist-members might value was thought to be a positive promotion when it was brainstormed. I'm sorry that you've taken such offense to it. I assure you that the request to run news of the promotion, as well as the weekend itself, did nothing to affect our nonprofit status. We wouldn't jeopardize that, Mr. Hill. (Also, for new visitors to our Forum who missed this lengthy discussion in the past, what few plants we do sell are not, I assure you, offered at wholesale prices.) Nor do we disrespect, in an way, form or fashion, the important members of either the commercial-growers or the affiliated-societies communities, as you seem to imply in your post. We singularly strive for several things -- to extend the knowledge, production, use and appreciation of orchids, and to provide real value to our members and those tied to the hobby and trade. We may not bat 1.000 with every initiative, but when we don't, it's not for lack of effort in trying to be the very best organization that we can be for our varied audiences. Next year, the FPOS should take advantage of the AOS Visitors Center and Botanical Garden being open to visitors year-round by sending to us a few weeks before your show fliers/brochures for us to display as "take-ones." A number of South Florida societies do that; we even utilize some as mini-posters. We'd be happy to actively promote your show, as we do on a daily basis (via handouts to each customer, as well as with take-ones) the area's commercial growers who are within a 90-minute drive of our facility. Again, my apologies if we've offended anyone with the FPOS. Lee |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
The notice in the Jupiter-Tequesta OS newsletter reads:
October 11-12 AOS is having an open house for all members of local orchid societies. Local society members will be admitted for free to tour the gardens and greenhouses. The AOS Emporium Gift Shop will be running clearance specials on a variety of merchandise. ... Don't know why they didn't send it to you ... -- Kenni Judd Juno Beach Orchids http://www.jborchids.com "Diana Kulaga" wrote in message .net... Whoa, Bill! I didn't know about this situation. My next question is, "Why didn't I know?". If a letter went out to the societies, I ought to have it. Hmm. In any event, though I personally think that the situation you described begs to be corrected, it didn't hurt Fort Pierce, thankfully. It was a great, busy show. Diana |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message k.net...
Whoa, Bill! I didn't know about this situation. My next question is, "Why didn't I know?". If a letter went out to the societies, I ought to have it. Hmm. In any event, though I personally think that the situation you described begs to be corrected, it didn't hurt Fort Pierce, thankfully. It was a great, busy show. Diana Hi Diana, I agree it was a great show at Fort Pierce--no one will ever know how much better it could have been. If you didn't see the AOS sale flyer (sent to all local societies) Ask Kenni, to fax you a copy of the TOS newsletter. Bill |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
Bill,
Actually, I'm betting that the flyer got lost in transition because our recording secretary was away for 2 months. I'll find out at next week's board meeting. Diana "William Hill" wrote in message m... "Diana Kulaga" wrote in message k.net... Whoa, Bill! I didn't know about this situation. My next question is, "Why didn't I know?". If a letter went out to the societies, I ought to have it. Hmm. In any event, though I personally think that the situation you described begs to be corrected, it didn't hurt Fort Pierce, thankfully. It was a great, busy show. Diana Hi Diana, I agree it was a great show at Fort Pierce--no one will ever know how much better it could have been. If you didn't see the AOS sale flyer (sent to all local societies) Ask Kenni, to fax you a copy of the TOS newsletter. Bill |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
How far are you from Headquarters? I do think it begs the
question Fort Pierce (where I am not a member, btw,) is about 90 minutes from AOS HQ. However, the post that Kathy put up may explain some of this away, if indeed they were not selling discounted plants during that time, but other mdse. Diana |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
4 quick notes:
1. Orchid people in Florida _will travel_. I've had people come [specifically, not as a side-trip] to my nursery from as far away as Gainesville [5 hours], Ocala [4+ hours], and Cocoa [4+ hours]; I routinely see people at shows that have travelled 3 or more hours to attend. 2. There were vendors other than orchid growers at the FPOS show. There was a supply vendor, Jim's Orchid Supplies; a vendor selling lovely orchid jewelry and paintings; and a vendor selling wooden plantstands and pot-hangers. Also, some of the growers had other merchandise, such as orchid books, for sale at the show, in addition to their plants. All of this is part of a good orchid show; I personally find it particularly helpful to have a supply vendor present at a show [it boosts sales of bareroot divisions tremendously, if customers can buy what they need to deal with them right on the spot; also, they will usually lend, or certainly sell, me whatever I forgot to pack that I _really_ need for my display, like empty pots or a particular type of hanger G]. 3. Perhaps it happened during the editing of the J-TOS newsletter, but I certainly couldn't tell that plants were excluded from the "clearance sale" from the notice that I read [and previously posted, so you can evaluate it for yourself]. 4. I, too, am not a member [or at least not an active member, I may have joined for insurance purposes] of FPOS, and I was fortunate enough to have a very good show there. Would it have been better without the AOS' competition? I can't even imagine any way to know for sure. That being the case, I think AOS should "err" on the side of respect for its affiliated societies. -- Kenni Judd Juno Beach Orchids http://www.jborchids.com "Diana Kulaga" wrote in message hlink.net... How far are you from Headquarters? I do think it begs the question Fort Pierce (where I am not a member, btw,) is about 90 minutes from AOS HQ. However, the post that Kathy put up may explain some of this away, if indeed they were not selling discounted plants during that time, but other mdse. Diana |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
I hope anyone who wanted to see the whole AOS Forum discussion has checked
it out already, because unless my browser is playing tricks on me, the thread has been removed; older threads still appear, so it didn't just "fall off the end" of the timeline ... -- Kenni Judd Juno Beach Orchids http://www.jborchids.com "K Barrett" wrote in message news:_kHib.117078$%h1.123376@sccrnsc02... In the interest of fairness here is Lee Cooke's response to Kenni and William He responded on the AOS Forum, where this thread originated. K Barrett Lee writes as follows: Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Ms. Judd and Mr. Hill. I apologize for the AOS if we've upset anyone with your society. As the "season" starts coming into focus down here in South Florida, there will be more and more orchid events and sales. Indeed, it's difficult to schedule an event or sale down here that *doesn't* bump into another affiliated-society or commercial-grower activity. This weekend, for example, featured for our area's orchidists two pretty neat temptations -- your show and the SFOS's prestigious speakers day. The AOS is, obviously, always trying to draw folks to the AOS Visitors Center and Botanical Garden; spread the good word about our mutual passion; and grow our membership. If we're successful, more aficionados mean more local society members and more visits to local commercial growers, and, ultimately, more readers of commercial growers' ads in Orchids magazine. It's unlikely that we can totally avoid schedule conflicts, but one of the ways that we've addressed that issue is to never offer anything associated with a "y'all come visit" promotion in a singular, one-day format. Like your own show, any promotions that we do are held over a multi-day period, thus giving the area's orchidists, residents and visitors plenty of opportunity to easily attend multiple orchid affairs during a single weekend. In this particular case, we're running the sale in question for *nine* days, which encompass *two* weekends. And, it is a sale on books and merchandise only, not plants. Mr. Hill, with all due respect, the requests that we sent to local affiliates to run the word of the promotion in their newsletters (if they had space and were inclined to do so) was generated as a promotion with one thing in mind: to do something nice for our valued affiliated societies. Letting the local societies' members into the botanical garden for free and offering them sales on books and merchandise that we thought their orchidist-members might value was thought to be a positive promotion when it was brainstormed. I'm sorry that you've taken such offense to it. I assure you that the request to run news of the promotion, as well as the weekend itself, did nothing to affect our nonprofit status. We wouldn't jeopardize that, Mr. Hill. (Also, for new visitors to our Forum who missed this lengthy discussion in the past, what few plants we do sell are not, I assure you, offered at wholesale prices.) Nor do we disrespect, in an way, form or fashion, the important members of either the commercial-growers or the affiliated-societies communities, as you seem to imply in your post. We singularly strive for several things -- to extend the knowledge, production, use and appreciation of orchids, and to provide real value to our members and those tied to the hobby and trade. We may not bat 1.000 with every initiative, but when we don't, it's not for lack of effort in trying to be the very best organization that we can be for our varied audiences. Next year, the FPOS should take advantage of the AOS Visitors Center and Botanical Garden being open to visitors year-round by sending to us a few weeks before your show fliers/brochures for us to display as "take-ones." A number of South Florida societies do that; we even utilize some as mini-posters. We'd be happy to actively promote your show, as we do on a daily basis (via handouts to each customer, as well as with take-ones) the area's commercial growers who are within a 90-minute drive of our facility. Again, my apologies if we've offended anyone with the FPOS. Lee |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
Kenni Judd wrote:
4 quick notes: 1. Orchid people in Florida _will travel_. I've had people come [specifically, not as a side-trip] to my nursery from as far away as Gainesville [5 hours], Ocala [4+ hours], and Cocoa [4+ hours]; I routinely see people at shows that have travelled 3 or more hours to attend. I myself travelled from Tampa to Kenni's nursery the last time I was in Florida... No idea how far that is, it seemed like forever. But that was many years ago and I believe we have both moved at least once since then... 4. I, too, am not a member [or at least not an active member, I may have joined for insurance purposes] of FPOS, and I was fortunate enough to have a very good show there. Would it have been better without the AOS' competition? I can't even imagine any way to know for sure. That being the case, I think AOS should "err" on the side of respect for its affiliated societies. Well, I am an AOS member and will be attending at least one committee meeting at the Trustees meeting (oh, wait, _members_ meeting) in Sacramento next month. I won't get a chance to complain about this particular matter in person, I'm sure. However, I would like to say that as an orchid judge (student judge, until I can finish my homework) we are supposed to avoid even the perception of impropriety. One might reasonably expect the AOS as an organization to follow that as well. It seems that the AOS headquarters, innocent or not, has managed to enter into a state of perceived impropriety. I for one am a little disgusted by what I have heard (admittedly only one side of the argument, but not the first time I've heard it, either), and to the public it must look a little shady. That is not good. If _I_ were in charge I'd stop the practice of selling plants at headquarters until some reasonable accomodation could be made with the local vendors. But again, I'm not in charge... (and I don't want to be). On the road again... Just can't wait to get back on the road again... Wait, that isn't true, I'd rather be home watering my plants. Stupid song.... Rob (Long Island this week, Left Coast next week, and another trip to Thailand requested this evening... sheeesh). -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
There's one problem I perceive with the "appearance of impropriety," which
cuts from two directions: 1. Consider non-orchid growing folks who visit the AOS for the novelty, and buy a plant for the same reason. To them, there is no impropriety, as they have no knowledge of the conflict. They end up killing the plant anyway. In this case, the AOS has "gotten away with" their bad behavior. 2. Then there's the grower who visits the AOS, buys a plant, and ultimately gets hooked. They jump on the web, or join the AOS and start perusing the ads in "Orchids." To them, the issue isn't that the AOS is undercutting the commercial growers - the AOS is the "baseline" - it's the fact that by contrast, everyone else appears to be gouging them on the prices! In both cases the AOS has, at best, done nothing to promote the growing of orchids, and worse, has set expectations that damage the perceptions about commercial growers. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! .. . . . . . . . . . . "Rob Halgren" wrote in message ... Kenni Judd wrote: 4 quick notes: 1. Orchid people in Florida _will travel_. I've had people come [specifically, not as a side-trip] to my nursery from as far away as Gainesville [5 hours], Ocala [4+ hours], and Cocoa [4+ hours]; I routinely see people at shows that have travelled 3 or more hours to attend. I myself travelled from Tampa to Kenni's nursery the last time I was in Florida... No idea how far that is, it seemed like forever. But that was many years ago and I believe we have both moved at least once since then... 4. I, too, am not a member [or at least not an active member, I may have joined for insurance purposes] of FPOS, and I was fortunate enough to have a very good show there. Would it have been better without the AOS' competition? I can't even imagine any way to know for sure. That being the case, I think AOS should "err" on the side of respect for its affiliated societies. Well, I am an AOS member and will be attending at least one committee meeting at the Trustees meeting (oh, wait, _members_ meeting) in Sacramento next month. I won't get a chance to complain about this particular matter in person, I'm sure. However, I would like to say that as an orchid judge (student judge, until I can finish my homework) we are supposed to avoid even the perception of impropriety. One might reasonably expect the AOS as an organization to follow that as well. It seems that the AOS headquarters, innocent or not, has managed to enter into a state of perceived impropriety. I for one am a little disgusted by what I have heard (admittedly only one side of the argument, but not the first time I've heard it, either), and to the public it must look a little shady. That is not good. If _I_ were in charge I'd stop the practice of selling plants at headquarters until some reasonable accomodation could be made with the local vendors. But again, I'm not in charge... (and I don't want to be). On the road again... Just can't wait to get back on the road again... Wait, that isn't true, I'd rather be home watering my plants. Stupid song.... Rob (Long Island this week, Left Coast next week, and another trip to Thailand requested this evening... sheeesh). -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
Could someone give an example of the "wholesale prices" that the AOS
headquarters is supposedly selling plants for? Just because someone sells plants at a reasonable price doesn't mean they are at wholesale. When a Florida vendor (I don't remember which one) came to the SE Flower show last year their prices were noticeably higher than the other vendors, maybe the market down there is just due for a correction. -danny "Ray" wrote in message ... There's one problem I perceive with the "appearance of impropriety," which cuts from two directions: 1. Consider non-orchid growing folks who visit the AOS for the novelty, and buy a plant for the same reason. To them, there is no impropriety, as they have no knowledge of the conflict. They end up killing the plant anyway. In this case, the AOS has "gotten away with" their bad behavior. 2. Then there's the grower who visits the AOS, buys a plant, and ultimately gets hooked. They jump on the web, or join the AOS and start perusing the ads in "Orchids." To them, the issue isn't that the AOS is undercutting the commercial growers - the AOS is the "baseline" - it's the fact that by contrast, everyone else appears to be gouging them on the prices! In both cases the AOS has, at best, done nothing to promote the growing of orchids, and worse, has set expectations that damage the perceptions about commercial growers. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! . . . . . . . . . . . "Rob Halgren" wrote in message ... Kenni Judd wrote: 4 quick notes: 1. Orchid people in Florida _will travel_. I've had people come [specifically, not as a side-trip] to my nursery from as far away as Gainesville [5 hours], Ocala [4+ hours], and Cocoa [4+ hours]; I routinely see people at shows that have travelled 3 or more hours to attend. I myself travelled from Tampa to Kenni's nursery the last time I was in Florida... No idea how far that is, it seemed like forever. But that was many years ago and I believe we have both moved at least once since then... 4. I, too, am not a member [or at least not an active member, I may have joined for insurance purposes] of FPOS, and I was fortunate enough to have a very good show there. Would it have been better without the AOS' competition? I can't even imagine any way to know for sure. That being the case, I think AOS should "err" on the side of respect for its affiliated societies. Well, I am an AOS member and will be attending at least one committee meeting at the Trustees meeting (oh, wait, _members_ meeting) in Sacramento next month. I won't get a chance to complain about this particular matter in person, I'm sure. However, I would like to say that as an orchid judge (student judge, until I can finish my homework) we are supposed to avoid even the perception of impropriety. One might reasonably expect the AOS as an organization to follow that as well. It seems that the AOS headquarters, innocent or not, has managed to enter into a state of perceived impropriety. I for one am a little disgusted by what I have heard (admittedly only one side of the argument, but not the first time I've heard it, either), and to the public it must look a little shady. That is not good. If _I_ were in charge I'd stop the practice of selling plants at headquarters until some reasonable accomodation could be made with the local vendors. But again, I'm not in charge... (and I don't want to be). On the road again... Just can't wait to get back on the road again... Wait, that isn't true, I'd rather be home watering my plants. Stupid song.... Rob (Long Island this week, Left Coast next week, and another trip to Thailand requested this evening... sheeesh). -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
|
A.O.S. Selling Plants
You can't opt out of this discussion. You started it. What are you? Some
sort of troll? K Barrett "William Hill" wrote in message om... (William Hill) wrote in message . com... Hi All, Has anyone noticed that The A.O.S. headquarters in DelRay Hi All, I AM OPTING OUT OF THIS DISCUSSION, BUT YOU ALL GO AHEAD. I HAVE ALWAYS RESPECTED LEE COOK & THINK HE DOES A GREAT JOB---BUT I DO NOT THINK AOS SHOULD BE SELLING ORCHID PLANTS WHEN FLORIDA CALIFORNIA HAWAII & LOTS OF FOLKS IN BETWEEN (who are all dues paying members of AOS) Have plenty to offer. I have personally looked at every plant in the gift shop--THOSE ARE WHOLESALE PRICES. If AOS wants to have a sale---let it be from Tues. to Thurs. (no conflict with any society show!!!!)I meant no disrespect to LEE --Just wanted to be as emphatic as possible about AOS DOES NOT NEED TO BE SELLING PLANTS!!!(NOR SHOULD THEY) Bill |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
Can I ask?
What kind of class action would be successful in this case? Whether or not the prices are fair they are entitled to sell the plants for whatever they like. I can't see how they can be sued for this. "William Hill" wrote in message om... Hi All, Has anyone noticed that The A.O.S. headquarters in DelRay Beach is selling orchid plants at wholesale prices??? This to the detriment of any commercial growers in the area. This passed weekend they held a blowout sale!! They sent notices to all south Florida Orchid Societies to the effect that on 10/11-12 they would sell plants to society members at greatly reduced prices. (how much lower can they go????) What makes this especially disgusting is that they timed their sale to coincide with the Fort Pierce Orchid Society's Show. This show was A.O.S. sanctioned and judged--so they can't say they didn't know. Was this an attempt to hurt the Fort Pierce Show???? You can bet on it!!! Are they slapping commercial growers in the area, in the face??? You can bet on it!! Another thing that is unethical AND illegal is that they are using their TAX EXEMPT status to advertise all of this. Orchid Societies and commercial growers account for most of the A.O.S. membership. (not only do all of the above pay dues, but they distribute more membership applications than anyone else!!!!! I am told that Lee Cook is primarily responsable for this. TRY TO GET HIM ON THE PHONE, OR TRY TO GET HIM TO RETURN PHONE CALLS!!!!! They are laying themselves wide open for a class-action lawsuit. I hope this can be stopped, but so far the "Powers that be" seem to be thumbing their noses at us "Little Folks" who are so dumb--that every election time we blindly send in our proxies so that "THE BIG WHEELS" stay in power & pretty much do as they please. If you want to contact Lee ---just tell the operator who answers the phone that you want to make a large donation---He'll respond to that !!!!! Bill |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
Xref: kermit rec.gardens.orchids:50990
I don't know... I find this whole conversation silly. If you do not like the AOS practices, don't pay the dues. If enough vendors feel as you do they will change their business model. If there aren't enough, you can either lower your prices, or demonstrate you have over the top fabulous plants for the price. Orchid sales are a cut-throat business. I'm betting you have a lot more to worry about then the AOS selling plants. There is a *ton* of competition, obviously. And things will probably only get worse for the orchid vendor. With all the complaints I read about the AOS, I'm surprised more people don't opt out of AOS dues. Money talks... and it doesn't do much good to just complain and keep rewarding them for bad behavior. Crystal -- http://home.comcast.net/~xtals/orchid.htm "William Hill" wrote in message om... (William Hill) wrote in message . com... Hi All, Has anyone noticed that The A.O.S. headquarters in DelRay Beach is selling orchid plants at wholesale prices??? This to the detriment of any commercial growers in the area. This passed weekend they held a blowout sale!! They sent notices to all south Florida Orchid Societies to the effect that on 10/11-12 they would sell plants to society members at greatly reduced prices. (how much lower can they go????) What makes this especially disgusting is that they timed their sale to coincide with the Fort Pierce Orchid Society's Show. This show was A.O.S. sanctioned and judged--so they can't say they didn't know. Was this an attempt to hurt the Fort Pierce Show???? You can bet on it!!! Are they slapping commercial growers in the area, in the face??? You can bet on it!! Another thing that is unethical AND illegal is that they are using their TAX EXEMPT status to advertise all of this. Orchid Societies and commercial growers account for most of the A.O.S. membership. (not only do all of the above pay dues, but they distribute more membership applications than anyone else!!!!! I am told that Lee Cook is primarily responsable for this. TRY TO GET HIM ON THE PHONE, OR TRY TO GET HIM TO RETURN PHONE CALLS!!!!! They are Hi All, I AM OPTING OUT OF THIS DISCUSSION, BUT YOU ALL GO AHEAD. I HAVE ALWAYS RESPECTED LEE COOK & THINK HE DOES A GREAT JOB---BUT I DO NOT THINK AOS SHOULD BE SELLING ORCHID PLANTS WHEN FLORIDA CALIFORNIA HAWAII & LOTS OF FOLKS IN BETWEEN (who are all dues paying members of AOS) Have plenty to offer. I have personally looked at every plant in the gift shop--THOSE ARE WHOLESALE PRICES. If AOS wants to have a sale---let it be from Tues. to Thurs. (no conflict with any society show!!!!)I meant no disrespect to LEE --Just wanted to be as emphatic as possible about AOS DOES NOT NEED TO BE SELLING PLANTS!!!(NOR SHOULD THEY) Bill laying themselves wide open for a class-action lawsuit. I hope this can be stopped, but so far the "Powers that be" seem to be thumbing their noses at us "Little Folks" who are so dumb--that every election time we blindly send in our proxies so that "THE BIG WHEELS" stay in power & pretty much do as they please. If you want to contact Lee ---just tell the operator who answers the phone that you want to make a large donation---He'll respond to that !!!!! Bill |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
"Bolero" wrote:
Can I ask? What kind of class action would be successful in this case? Whether or not the prices are fair they are entitled to sell the plants for whatever they like. I can't see how they can be sued for this. Being largely unaffected by all this (not a member, not not an American) I'll chime in on the discussion. I think problem has more to do with the conflict of interest regarding a tax-exempt not-for-profit organisation setting up what may appear to be a commercial endevour. I can't say the gripe regarding low prices would have any legal bearing but the alleged abuse of a tax exempt status may cause problems for the society should an auditor disagree with their practices. |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
There seems to be some confusion here....A not-for-profit and/or tax-exempt
organization can sell products. Look at the Girl Scouts and those pricey cookies! Non profits just have to account for all the money at the end of the year and spend it upon their non-profit activity. I am an AOS member and not a vendor. I haven't seen the plants they are selling so I can't speak for the value for the price. There are enough of us out there buying plants that I doubt the AOS is serious competition for anyone except their nearest neighbors. If they are able to sell some plants and keep the costs down for the entire organization I think this is a good thing. If I were in Florida I would check out their plants as well as other vendors in the area. Good Growing, Gene |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
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A.O.S. Selling Plants
The 2 things are, I think, inextricably intertwined. Without the low
overhead afforded by its non-profit status ["free" facility, volunteer labor, discounts on everything from bank fees to corporate filing fees to advertising, etc.], AOS would be losing money, rather than making any, on the plants it is selling. In answer to Gene: of course non-profits can sell products. Every non-profit entity has to raise funds somehow. The Girl Scouts have a cookie drive once a year [in which, as you noted, they're not exactly undercutting Sara Lee G]; schools do a magazine-sales blitz to fund their proms; churches sometimes hold annual "flea market," craft or bake sales; local orchid societies have their shows, raffles, auctions, etc. In fact, the Tropical Orchid Society has a "members plant table" at each of its 2 annual workshops where its members sell their own plants in competition with the vendors at the same event [the OS gets a commission]. I'm one of those vendors, and I don't particularly mind -- this is the type of "collection reducing" activity mentioned in a previous post, and an "occasional" fundraiser, not an ongoing business activity. But there has to be some kind of line between a non-profit doing the occasional fund-raiser and a full-time business operation, and it looks to me like the AOS has become the latter. It isn't reducing its collection or having occasional fundraisers, it's buying in plants specifically for re-sale on a daily, year-round basis. If AOS' current operations qualify it as a 501(c)(3) non-profit, then I should apply for that status for my own nursery! I spend lots of time teaching people about orchids ... -- Kenni Judd Juno Beach Orchids http://www.jborchids.com "Andrew" wrote in message om... Being largely unaffected by all this (not a member, not not an American) I'll chime in on the discussion. I think problem has more to do with the conflict of interest regarding a tax-exempt not-for-profit organisation setting up what may appear to be a commercial endevour. I can't say the gripe regarding low prices would have any legal bearing but the alleged abuse of a tax exempt status may cause problems for the society should an auditor disagree with their practices. |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
I'd also like to hear some real data so we can judge for ourselves if
they're selling under retail prices or not. "danny" wrote in message .. . Could someone give an example of the "wholesale prices" that the AOS headquarters is supposedly selling plants for? Just because someone sells plants at a reasonable price doesn't mean they are at wholesale. When a Florida vendor (I don't remember which one) came to the SE Flower show last year their prices were noticeably higher than the other vendors, maybe the market down there is just due for a correction. -danny "Ray" wrote in message ... There's one problem I perceive with the "appearance of impropriety," which cuts from two directions: 1. Consider non-orchid growing folks who visit the AOS for the novelty, and buy a plant for the same reason. To them, there is no impropriety, as they have no knowledge of the conflict. They end up killing the plant anyway. In this case, the AOS has "gotten away with" their bad behavior. 2. Then there's the grower who visits the AOS, buys a plant, and ultimately gets hooked. They jump on the web, or join the AOS and start perusing the ads in "Orchids." To them, the issue isn't that the AOS is undercutting the commercial growers - the AOS is the "baseline" - it's the fact that by contrast, everyone else appears to be gouging them on the prices! In both cases the AOS has, at best, done nothing to promote the growing of orchids, and worse, has set expectations that damage the perceptions about commercial growers. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! . . . . . . . . . . . "Rob Halgren" wrote in message ... Kenni Judd wrote: 4 quick notes: 1. Orchid people in Florida _will travel_. I've had people come [specifically, not as a side-trip] to my nursery from as far away as Gainesville [5 hours], Ocala [4+ hours], and Cocoa [4+ hours]; I routinely see people at shows that have travelled 3 or more hours to attend. I myself travelled from Tampa to Kenni's nursery the last time I was in Florida... No idea how far that is, it seemed like forever. But that was many years ago and I believe we have both moved at least once since then... 4. I, too, am not a member [or at least not an active member, I may have joined for insurance purposes] of FPOS, and I was fortunate enough to have a very good show there. Would it have been better without the AOS' competition? I can't even imagine any way to know for sure. That being the case, I think AOS should "err" on the side of respect for its affiliated societies. Well, I am an AOS member and will be attending at least one committee meeting at the Trustees meeting (oh, wait, _members_ meeting) in Sacramento next month. I won't get a chance to complain about this particular matter in person, I'm sure. However, I would like to say that as an orchid judge (student judge, until I can finish my homework) we are supposed to avoid even the perception of impropriety. One might reasonably expect the AOS as an organization to follow that as well. It seems that the AOS headquarters, innocent or not, has managed to enter into a state of perceived impropriety. I for one am a little disgusted by what I have heard (admittedly only one side of the argument, but not the first time I've heard it, either), and to the public it must look a little shady. That is not good. If _I_ were in charge I'd stop the practice of selling plants at headquarters until some reasonable accomodation could be made with the local vendors. But again, I'm not in charge... (and I don't want to be). On the road again... Just can't wait to get back on the road again... Wait, that isn't true, I'd rather be home watering my plants. Stupid song.... Rob (Long Island this week, Left Coast next week, and another trip to Thailand requested this evening... sheeesh). -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
Lee Cooke has his side of the story on the AOS Forum Discussion, on the AOS
Homepage http://orchidweb.org "Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message ... I'd also like to hear some real data so we can judge for ourselves if they're selling under retail prices or not. "danny" wrote in message .. . Could someone give an example of the "wholesale prices" that the AOS headquarters is supposedly selling plants for? Just because someone sells plants at a reasonable price doesn't mean they are at wholesale. When a Florida vendor (I don't remember which one) came to the SE Flower show last year their prices were noticeably higher than the other vendors, maybe the market down there is just due for a correction. -danny "Ray" wrote in message ... There's one problem I perceive with the "appearance of impropriety," which cuts from two directions: 1. Consider non-orchid growing folks who visit the AOS for the novelty, and buy a plant for the same reason. To them, there is no impropriety, as they have no knowledge of the conflict. They end up killing the plant anyway. In this case, the AOS has "gotten away with" their bad behavior. 2. Then there's the grower who visits the AOS, buys a plant, and ultimately gets hooked. They jump on the web, or join the AOS and start perusing the ads in "Orchids." To them, the issue isn't that the AOS is undercutting the commercial growers - the AOS is the "baseline" - it's the fact that by contrast, everyone else appears to be gouging them on the prices! In both cases the AOS has, at best, done nothing to promote the growing of orchids, and worse, has set expectations that damage the perceptions about commercial growers. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! . . . . . . . . . . . "Rob Halgren" wrote in message ... Kenni Judd wrote: 4 quick notes: 1. Orchid people in Florida _will travel_. I've had people come [specifically, not as a side-trip] to my nursery from as far away as Gainesville [5 hours], Ocala [4+ hours], and Cocoa [4+ hours]; I routinely see people at shows that have travelled 3 or more hours to attend. I myself travelled from Tampa to Kenni's nursery the last time I was in Florida... No idea how far that is, it seemed like forever. But that was many years ago and I believe we have both moved at least once since then... 4. I, too, am not a member [or at least not an active member, I may have joined for insurance purposes] of FPOS, and I was fortunate enough to have a very good show there. Would it have been better without the AOS' competition? I can't even imagine any way to know for sure. That being the case, I think AOS should "err" on the side of respect for its affiliated societies. Well, I am an AOS member and will be attending at least one committee meeting at the Trustees meeting (oh, wait, _members_ meeting) in Sacramento next month. I won't get a chance to complain about this particular matter in person, I'm sure. However, I would like to say that as an orchid judge (student judge, until I can finish my homework) we are supposed to avoid even the perception of impropriety. One might reasonably expect the AOS as an organization to follow that as well. It seems that the AOS headquarters, innocent or not, has managed to enter into a state of perceived impropriety. I for one am a little disgusted by what I have heard (admittedly only one side of the argument, but not the first time I've heard it, either), and to the public it must look a little shady. That is not good. If _I_ were in charge I'd stop the practice of selling plants at headquarters until some reasonable accomodation could be made with the local vendors. But again, I'm not in charge... (and I don't want to be). On the road again... Just can't wait to get back on the road again... Wait, that isn't true, I'd rather be home watering my plants. Stupid song.... Rob (Long Island this week, Left Coast next week, and another trip to Thailand requested this evening... sheeesh). -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
Lee's post does _not_ contain the examples that these folks are requesting.
I can't provide an _exact_ one either, as I did not take notes as to specific plants and prices when I was there but on the whole can say that on that day [which was not advertised as a clearance sale], their prices were from $5 to even $10 lower per plant than what I see plants routinely going for at area shows, both from my tables and from those of my competitors. And at today's event, I heard from several customers that my prices on the vandaceous selections I was offering were considerably lower than Home Depot's ... Perhaps I should also mention that the selections at AOS, on the last day that I was there, included things like cool-growing Miltoniopsis, obviously unsuitable for south-Florida growing, particularly by the novice AOS claim to be targeting. But I also wish to remind everyone, before we go too far down this tangent, that the original point of my post was AOS' scheduling of an open house and clearance sale in competition with one of its own affiliated chapters [Ft. Pierce OS] which I, at least, consider close enough to be considered local, and is also within the AOS' own "90-minute drive" definition of local. The notices for both events that I saw was in the Jupiter-Tequesta OS newsletter; the members of that society are mostly located about halfway between the 2 events. -- Kenni Judd Juno Beach Orchids http://www.jborchids.com "K Barrett" wrote in message news:nqkkb.585208$Oz4.568536@rwcrnsc54... Lee Cooke has his side of the story on the AOS Forum Discussion, on the AOS Homepage http://orchidweb.org "Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message ... I'd also like to hear some real data so we can judge for ourselves if they're selling under retail prices or not. "danny" wrote in message .. . Could someone give an example of the "wholesale prices" that the AOS headquarters is supposedly selling plants for? Just because someone sells plants at a reasonable price doesn't mean they are at wholesale. When a Florida vendor (I don't remember which one) came to the SE Flower show last year their prices were noticeably higher than the other vendors, maybe the market down there is just due for a correction. -danny "Ray" wrote in message ... There's one problem I perceive with the "appearance of impropriety," which cuts from two directions: 1. Consider non-orchid growing folks who visit the AOS for the novelty, and buy a plant for the same reason. To them, there is no impropriety, as they have no knowledge of the conflict. They end up killing the plant anyway. In this case, the AOS has "gotten away with" their bad behavior. 2. Then there's the grower who visits the AOS, buys a plant, and ultimately gets hooked. They jump on the web, or join the AOS and start perusing the ads in "Orchids." To them, the issue isn't that the AOS is undercutting the commercial growers - the AOS is the "baseline" - it's the fact that by contrast, everyone else appears to be gouging them on the prices! In both cases the AOS has, at best, done nothing to promote the growing of orchids, and worse, has set expectations that damage the perceptions about commercial growers. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! . . . . . . . . . . . "Rob Halgren" wrote in message ... Kenni Judd wrote: 4 quick notes: 1. Orchid people in Florida _will travel_. I've had people come [specifically, not as a side-trip] to my nursery from as far away as Gainesville [5 hours], Ocala [4+ hours], and Cocoa [4+ hours]; I routinely see people at shows that have travelled 3 or more hours to attend. I myself travelled from Tampa to Kenni's nursery the last time I was in Florida... No idea how far that is, it seemed like forever. But that was many years ago and I believe we have both moved at least once since then... 4. I, too, am not a member [or at least not an active member, I may have joined for insurance purposes] of FPOS, and I was fortunate enough to have a very good show there. Would it have been better without the AOS' competition? I can't even imagine any way to know for sure. That being the case, I think AOS should "err" on the side of respect for its affiliated societies. Well, I am an AOS member and will be attending at least one committee meeting at the Trustees meeting (oh, wait, _members_ meeting) in Sacramento next month. I won't get a chance to complain about this particular matter in person, I'm sure. However, I would like to say that as an orchid judge (student judge, until I can finish my homework) we are supposed to avoid even the perception of impropriety. One might reasonably expect the AOS as an organization to follow that as well. It seems that the AOS headquarters, innocent or not, has managed to enter into a state of perceived impropriety. I for one am a little disgusted by what I have heard (admittedly only one side of the argument, but not the first time I've heard it, either), and to the public it must look a little shady. That is not good. If _I_ were in charge I'd stop the practice of selling plants at headquarters until some reasonable accomodation could be made with the local vendors. But again, I'm not in charge... (and I don't want to be). On the road again... Just can't wait to get back on the road again... Wait, that isn't true, I'd rather be home watering my plants. Stupid song.... Rob (Long Island this week, Left Coast next week, and another trip to Thailand requested this evening... sheeesh). -- Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a. See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase more orchids, obtain more credit |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
Larry Dighera wrote in message . ..
On 13 Oct 2003 06:36:13 -0700, (William Hill) wrote in Message-Id: : ... so far the "Powers that be" seem to be thumbing their noses at us "Little Folks" who are so dumb--that ... You know what they say: It starts at the top. That attitude seems to perfectly mirror junior Bush's administration's attitude. I would like to thank everyone who is ringing in on this subject & the many people who have responded to me by e-mail. Like the man said: If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything !! Bill |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
This post was sent to me by a friend and former employee, Sandy Greeman, who
is having "technical difficulties" posting here directly, and so asked me to post it on her behalf: "fwiw - I am not renewing my AOS membership this year. The magazine has amazingly shrunk but carries many more ads than it used to. I'm sick of their attitude towards the novice grower in general, especially because they are supposed to be a non-profit educational organization. Did you catch their tax return for last year?? Salaries are outrageous. Grants are miniscule compared to their expenses for awards and shows - where only a vendor will attempt to honestly answer a newbie's question. Judges just act like pompous snobs. I believe the AOS only exists to promote_themselves_and the_large_growers. I would love to see the percentage of hobbyist awards against the total awards granted. I grow orchids for my own amusement and to share with other hobbyists. The AOS no longer offers me any benefit for the amount of my dues. I can get more information about growing orchids from the internet than I can from their slick monthly advertisement publication. The behavior of their officers in this most recent controversy assures me that I have made the correct decision to discontinue my contribution to their salaries." Sandy Greeman -- Posted for Sandy by Kenni Judd Juno Beach Orchids http://www.jborchids.com "Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... On 13 Oct 2003 06:36:13 -0700, (William Hill) wrote in Message-Id: : ... so far the "Powers that be" seem to be thumbing their noses at us "Little Folks" who are so dumb--that ... You know what they say: It starts at the top. That attitude seems to perfectly mirror junior Bush's administration's attitude. -- Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts. -- Larry Dighera, |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
Good! I am a firm believer of voting with my wallet. I am
not naive enough to think that the pittance I contribute to any company will make any real difference, but the pittance that then goes to a smaller mom and pop shop, or small vendor could make a difference. Funny... smaller outlets actually seem to want my money, rather than expect it. Perhaps this will allow a smaller outlet to make a larger contribution when it comes to conservation they might not have otherwise had the chance for due to funding automatically going to the AOS. FWIW, I really have no beef with the AOS, but generally see a lot of unhappy people talking about them. When there is only one game in town, they have no incentive to listen to the very people who fund them. Crystal -- http://home.comcast.net/~xtals/orchid.htm "Kenni Judd" wrote in message . .. This post was sent to me by a friend and former employee, Sandy Greeman, who is having "technical difficulties" posting here directly, and so asked me to post it on her behalf: "fwiw - I am not renewing my AOS membership this year. The magazine has amazingly shrunk but carries many more ads than it used to. I'm sick of their attitude towards the novice grower in general, especially because they are supposed to be a non-profit educational organization. Did you catch their tax return for last year?? Salaries are outrageous. Grants are miniscule compared to their expenses for awards and shows - where only a vendor will attempt to honestly answer a newbie's question. Judges just act like pompous snobs. I believe the AOS only exists to promote_themselves_and the_large_growers. I would love to see the percentage of hobbyist awards against the total awards granted. I grow orchids for my own amusement and to share with other hobbyists. The AOS no longer offers me any benefit for the amount of my dues. I can get more information about growing orchids from the internet than I can from their slick monthly advertisement publication. The behavior of their officers in this most recent controversy assures me that I have made the correct decision to discontinue my contribution to their salaries." Sandy Greeman -- Posted for Sandy by Kenni Judd Juno Beach Orchids http://www.jborchids.com "Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... On 13 Oct 2003 06:36:13 -0700, (William Hill) wrote in Message-Id: : ... so far the "Powers that be" seem to be thumbing their noses at us "Little Folks" who are so dumb--that ... You know what they say: It starts at the top. That attitude seems to perfectly mirror junior Bush's administration's attitude. -- Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts. -- Larry Dighera, |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
So Sandy *will* be joining the Orchid Digest Corporation?
http://www.orchiddigest.org K Barrett "Kenni Judd" wrote in message . .. This post was sent to me by a friend and former employee, Sandy Greeman, who is having "technical difficulties" posting here directly, and so asked me to post it on her behalf: "fwiw - I am not renewing my AOS membership this year. The magazine has amazingly shrunk but carries many more ads than it used to. I'm sick of their attitude towards the novice grower in general, especially because they are supposed to be a non-profit educational organization. Did you catch their tax return for last year?? Salaries are outrageous. Grants are miniscule compared to their expenses for awards and shows - where only a vendor will attempt to honestly answer a newbie's question. Judges just act like pompous snobs. I believe the AOS only exists to promote_themselves_and the_large_growers. I would love to see the percentage of hobbyist awards against the total awards granted. I grow orchids for my own amusement and to share with other hobbyists. The AOS no longer offers me any benefit for the amount of my dues. I can get more information about growing orchids from the internet than I can from their slick monthly advertisement publication. The behavior of their officers in this most recent controversy assures me that I have made the correct decision to discontinue my contribution to their salaries." Sandy Greeman -- Posted for Sandy by Kenni Judd Juno Beach Orchids http://www.jborchids.com "Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... On 13 Oct 2003 06:36:13 -0700, (William Hill) wrote in Message-Id: : ... so far the "Powers that be" seem to be thumbing their noses at us "Little Folks" who are so dumb--that ... You know what they say: It starts at the top. That attitude seems to perfectly mirror junior Bush's administration's attitude. -- Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts. -- Larry Dighera, |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
So you *will* be joining the Orchid Digest Corporation?
http://www.orchiddigest.org "There is another...." K Barrett "House of Paisley" wrote in message news:7BZkb.597638$Oz4.592808@rwcrnsc54... Good! I am a firm believer of voting with my wallet. I am not naive enough to think that the pittance I contribute to any company will make any real difference, but the pittance that then goes to a smaller mom and pop shop, or small vendor could make a difference. Funny... smaller outlets actually seem to want my money, rather than expect it. Perhaps this will allow a smaller outlet to make a larger contribution when it comes to conservation they might not have otherwise had the chance for due to funding automatically going to the AOS. FWIW, I really have no beef with the AOS, but generally see a lot of unhappy people talking about them. When there is only one game in town, they have no incentive to listen to the very people who fund them. Crystal -- http://home.comcast.net/~xtals/orchid.htm "Kenni Judd" wrote in message . .. This post was sent to me by a friend and former employee, Sandy Greeman, who is having "technical difficulties" posting here directly, and so asked me to post it on her behalf: "fwiw - I am not renewing my AOS membership this year. The magazine has amazingly shrunk but carries many more ads than it used to. I'm sick of their attitude towards the novice grower in general, especially because they are supposed to be a non-profit educational organization. Did you catch their tax return for last year?? Salaries are outrageous. Grants are miniscule compared to their expenses for awards and shows - where only a vendor will attempt to honestly answer a newbie's question. Judges just act like pompous snobs. I believe the AOS only exists to promote_themselves_and the_large_growers. I would love to see the percentage of hobbyist awards against the total awards granted. I grow orchids for my own amusement and to share with other hobbyists. The AOS no longer offers me any benefit for the amount of my dues. I can get more information about growing orchids from the internet than I can from their slick monthly advertisement publication. The behavior of their officers in this most recent controversy assures me that I have made the correct decision to discontinue my contribution to their salaries." Sandy Greeman -- Posted for Sandy by Kenni Judd Juno Beach Orchids http://www.jborchids.com "Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... On 13 Oct 2003 06:36:13 -0700, (William Hill) wrote in Message-Id: : ... so far the "Powers that be" seem to be thumbing their noses at us "Little Folks" who are so dumb--that ... You know what they say: It starts at the top. That attitude seems to perfectly mirror junior Bush's administration's attitude. -- Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts. -- Larry Dighera, |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
I will forward your post to her -- along with any info you care to provide
as to why she should do so. If it's convincing, I might join, too. -- Kenni Judd Juno Beach Orchids http://www.jborchids.com "K Barrett" wrote in message . net... So Sandy *will* be joining the Orchid Digest Corporation? http://www.orchiddigest.org |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
good mag w/ good articles and pix :)
"Kenni Judd" wrote in message . .. I will forward your post to her -- along with any info you care to provide as to why she should do so. If it's convincing, I might join, too. -- Kenni Judd Juno Beach Orchids http://www.jborchids.com "K Barrett" wrote in message . net... So Sandy *will* be joining the Orchid Digest Corporation? http://www.orchiddigest.org |
A.O.S. Selling Plants
Kenni,
Orchid Digest is the best $28/year I've ever spent on an orchid information source. I just received the Phragmipedium issue and it's spectacular. The color photographs are high quality and high quantity. The articles are written by all the international orchid writers, and it's geared towards people who are serious addicts. Every year there are four issues - three general interest and a final special topic issue. Last year was Phalaenopsis - this year is Phrags. Tell your friend to find a friend who has a subscription and check it out - or go to your nearest full-service horticultural library and find it. -Eric in SF, a big fan of Orchid Digest www.erichunt.com "Kenni Judd" wrote in message . .. I will forward your post to her -- along with any info you care to provide as to why she should do so. If it's convincing, I might join, too. |
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