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Old 13-02-2004, 06:33 PM
Rob Halgren
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?

Wow, out of control software... Not sure how that last one ended up
getting sent three times. Guess it was a spectacularly good post!!

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
  #62   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 06:33 PM
Rob Halgren
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?

Wow, out of control software... Not sure how that last one ended up
getting sent three times. Guess it was a spectacularly good post!!

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
  #63   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 06:54 PM
Rob Halgren
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?

Ted Byers wrote:

Interesting. I wonder if they could have rejuvenated the cell Dolly was
made from, before it began to divide, by turning back on. If so, would it
turn itself off again at the right time, or would an intervention be
required to turn it off later? Or is an exprimental manipulation to
lengthen the telomeres without turning on the gene (perhaps be extracting
the genetic material, manipulating it and then putting it back)?



I'd wager that somebody is working on something similar. I don't
really know what is going on in the cloning world. I do know it isn't
quite as simple as just resetting telomere length. DNA damage and
(perhaps) the accumulation of damage in long lived proteins play a role
as well. Interestingly, this doesn't really apply to orchids, which
are effectively immortal. Or if it does, the meristematic region of an
orchid would be the equivalent of an eternally young tissue. It is
interesting to consider what mechanism could allow a plant to continue
to grow forever, but limits the age of animals.

Nope! But then, those who fear death would likely want it examined in
animals to see if the problems associated with turning telomerase on can be
avoided, in an effort to prolong life. Through my own chronic illness (no
safe, effective treatment and uncontrollable pain: less than a 50% chance of
living to age 65 according to the latest stats I've seen), I have learned
not only not to fear death but to see it as a welcome friend. What good is
a prolonged life if you don't have your health?


Indeed, and I wish you well with your illness. The worst day above
the ground is better than the best below it... I'm reasonably confident
there will be ways to prolong quality life in the very near future.
There already have been substantial advances in lifespan and quality of
life, just in the last 50 years or so. By quality I mean active and
healthy. So if people could be as active at 80 as they are at 60, that
would be a substantial improvement, even if total lifespan didn't
increase. Prolonging life is no good, if that extra time is spent in
hospital. This will end up really changing our social structure, of
course, and I don't know if we are ready for it yet. We'll probably all
need to work until 80 anyway, just to pay off the U.S. deficit.

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
  #64   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 07:13 PM
Ted Byers
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?


"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...
Wow, out of control software... Not sure how that last one ended up
getting sent three times. Guess it was a spectacularly good post!!

Evidence of ghosts in the machine! ;-) ;-)

Cheers,

Ted


  #65   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 07:13 PM
Ted Byers
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?


"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...
Wow, out of control software... Not sure how that last one ended up
getting sent three times. Guess it was a spectacularly good post!!

Evidence of ghosts in the machine! ;-) ;-)

Cheers,

Ted




  #66   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 07:20 PM
Ted Byers
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?


"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...
Indeed, and I wish you well with your illness.


Thanks. The disease is diabetes, and the symptom that is particularly
debilitating is the neuropathy that comes with it. This nueropathy
generally results in altered sensation: temperature extremes are often not
felt (and since they're not felt, it is easy to receive even third degree
burns without knowing it), and physical damage is often not felt (which is
why diabetics frequently lose limbs - they've stepped on broken glass or a
mail or something, and the resulting would got sufficiently badly infected
that gangrene sets in leading to the loss of the limb if detected early
enough to prevent death), and finally, if often produces phantom pain in
which it feels like you're enfuring the worst imaginable tortures and yet
there is no corresponding injury. And then, of course, there ae all the
other diseases, such as kidney disease, heart disease, &.c for which
diabetics are quite vulnerable. There isn't an organ in the body that isn't
at risk because of diabetes. Low blood sugar can lead to a coma, while high
blood sugar levels does plenty of damage to all organs in the body.

While insulin and medications like metformin, and a couple others, are
useful in controlling blood sugar levels, there is nothing that can be done
for the neuropathy that I believe to be both safe and effective.

And diabetes will become an ever increasing problem since the incidence of
it in north america is increasing (not too surprising since the single
largest factor in its onset appears to be stress).

The worst day above

:-)

This can be taken two more ways (both being logically valid, given implied
assumptions).

1) The worst day in heaven is better than the best day on earth.
2) The worst day on earth is better than the best day in hell.

Cheers,

Ted


  #67   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 07:20 PM
Ted Byers
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?


"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...
Indeed, and I wish you well with your illness.


Thanks. The disease is diabetes, and the symptom that is particularly
debilitating is the neuropathy that comes with it. This nueropathy
generally results in altered sensation: temperature extremes are often not
felt (and since they're not felt, it is easy to receive even third degree
burns without knowing it), and physical damage is often not felt (which is
why diabetics frequently lose limbs - they've stepped on broken glass or a
mail or something, and the resulting would got sufficiently badly infected
that gangrene sets in leading to the loss of the limb if detected early
enough to prevent death), and finally, if often produces phantom pain in
which it feels like you're enfuring the worst imaginable tortures and yet
there is no corresponding injury. And then, of course, there ae all the
other diseases, such as kidney disease, heart disease, &.c for which
diabetics are quite vulnerable. There isn't an organ in the body that isn't
at risk because of diabetes. Low blood sugar can lead to a coma, while high
blood sugar levels does plenty of damage to all organs in the body.

While insulin and medications like metformin, and a couple others, are
useful in controlling blood sugar levels, there is nothing that can be done
for the neuropathy that I believe to be both safe and effective.

And diabetes will become an ever increasing problem since the incidence of
it in north america is increasing (not too surprising since the single
largest factor in its onset appears to be stress).

The worst day above

:-)

This can be taken two more ways (both being logically valid, given implied
assumptions).

1) The worst day in heaven is better than the best day on earth.
2) The worst day on earth is better than the best day in hell.

Cheers,

Ted


  #68   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 07:29 PM
Rob Halgren
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?

Ted Byers wrote:

Interesting. I wonder if they could have rejuvenated the cell Dolly was
made from, before it began to divide, by turning back on. If so, would it
turn itself off again at the right time, or would an intervention be
required to turn it off later? Or is an exprimental manipulation to
lengthen the telomeres without turning on the gene (perhaps be extracting
the genetic material, manipulating it and then putting it back)?



I'd wager that somebody is working on something similar. I don't
really know what is going on in the cloning world. I do know it isn't
quite as simple as just resetting telomere length. DNA damage and
(perhaps) the accumulation of damage in long lived proteins play a role
as well. Interestingly, this doesn't really apply to orchids, which
are effectively immortal. Or if it does, the meristematic region of an
orchid would be the equivalent of an eternally young tissue. It is
interesting to consider what mechanism could allow a plant to continue
to grow forever, but limits the age of animals.

Nope! But then, those who fear death would likely want it examined in
animals to see if the problems associated with turning telomerase on can be
avoided, in an effort to prolong life. Through my own chronic illness (no
safe, effective treatment and uncontrollable pain: less than a 50% chance of
living to age 65 according to the latest stats I've seen), I have learned
not only not to fear death but to see it as a welcome friend. What good is
a prolonged life if you don't have your health?


Indeed, and I wish you well with your illness. The worst day above
the ground is better than the best below it... I'm reasonably confident
there will be ways to prolong quality life in the very near future.
There already have been substantial advances in lifespan and quality of
life, just in the last 50 years or so. By quality I mean active and
healthy. So if people could be as active at 80 as they are at 60, that
would be a substantial improvement, even if total lifespan didn't
increase. Prolonging life is no good, if that extra time is spent in
hospital. This will end up really changing our social structure, of
course, and I don't know if we are ready for it yet. We'll probably all
need to work until 80 anyway, just to pay off the U.S. deficit.

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
  #69   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 07:59 PM
Rob Halgren
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?

Ted Byers wrote:

Interesting. I wonder if they could have rejuvenated the cell Dolly was
made from, before it began to divide, by turning back on. If so, would it
turn itself off again at the right time, or would an intervention be
required to turn it off later? Or is an exprimental manipulation to
lengthen the telomeres without turning on the gene (perhaps be extracting
the genetic material, manipulating it and then putting it back)?



I'd wager that somebody is working on something similar. I don't
really know what is going on in the cloning world. I do know it isn't
quite as simple as just resetting telomere length. DNA damage and
(perhaps) the accumulation of damage in long lived proteins play a role
as well. Interestingly, this doesn't really apply to orchids, which
are effectively immortal. Or if it does, the meristematic region of an
orchid would be the equivalent of an eternally young tissue. It is
interesting to consider what mechanism could allow a plant to continue
to grow forever, but limits the age of animals.

Nope! But then, those who fear death would likely want it examined in
animals to see if the problems associated with turning telomerase on can be
avoided, in an effort to prolong life. Through my own chronic illness (no
safe, effective treatment and uncontrollable pain: less than a 50% chance of
living to age 65 according to the latest stats I've seen), I have learned
not only not to fear death but to see it as a welcome friend. What good is
a prolonged life if you don't have your health?


Indeed, and I wish you well with your illness. The worst day above
the ground is better than the best below it... I'm reasonably confident
there will be ways to prolong quality life in the very near future.
There already have been substantial advances in lifespan and quality of
life, just in the last 50 years or so. By quality I mean active and
healthy. So if people could be as active at 80 as they are at 60, that
would be a substantial improvement, even if total lifespan didn't
increase. Prolonging life is no good, if that extra time is spent in
hospital. This will end up really changing our social structure, of
course, and I don't know if we are ready for it yet. We'll probably all
need to work until 80 anyway, just to pay off the U.S. deficit.

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
  #70   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 08:02 PM
Rob Halgren
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?

Ted Byers wrote:

Interesting. I wonder if they could have rejuvenated the cell Dolly was
made from, before it began to divide, by turning back on. If so, would it
turn itself off again at the right time, or would an intervention be
required to turn it off later? Or is an exprimental manipulation to
lengthen the telomeres without turning on the gene (perhaps be extracting
the genetic material, manipulating it and then putting it back)?



I'd wager that somebody is working on something similar. I don't
really know what is going on in the cloning world. I do know it isn't
quite as simple as just resetting telomere length. DNA damage and
(perhaps) the accumulation of damage in long lived proteins play a role
as well. Interestingly, this doesn't really apply to orchids, which
are effectively immortal. Or if it does, the meristematic region of an
orchid would be the equivalent of an eternally young tissue. It is
interesting to consider what mechanism could allow a plant to continue
to grow forever, but limits the age of animals.

Nope! But then, those who fear death would likely want it examined in
animals to see if the problems associated with turning telomerase on can be
avoided, in an effort to prolong life. Through my own chronic illness (no
safe, effective treatment and uncontrollable pain: less than a 50% chance of
living to age 65 according to the latest stats I've seen), I have learned
not only not to fear death but to see it as a welcome friend. What good is
a prolonged life if you don't have your health?


Indeed, and I wish you well with your illness. The worst day above
the ground is better than the best below it... I'm reasonably confident
there will be ways to prolong quality life in the very near future.
There already have been substantial advances in lifespan and quality of
life, just in the last 50 years or so. By quality I mean active and
healthy. So if people could be as active at 80 as they are at 60, that
would be a substantial improvement, even if total lifespan didn't
increase. Prolonging life is no good, if that extra time is spent in
hospital. This will end up really changing our social structure, of
course, and I don't know if we are ready for it yet. We'll probably all
need to work until 80 anyway, just to pay off the U.S. deficit.

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit


  #71   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 08:07 PM
Rob Halgren
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?

Wow, out of control software... Not sure how that last one ended up
getting sent three times. Guess it was a spectacularly good post!!

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
  #72   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 08:07 PM
Rob Halgren
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?

Wow, out of control software... Not sure how that last one ended up
getting sent three times. Guess it was a spectacularly good post!!

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
  #73   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 08:16 PM
Ted Byers
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?


"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...
Wow, out of control software... Not sure how that last one ended up
getting sent three times. Guess it was a spectacularly good post!!

Evidence of ghosts in the machine! ;-) ;-)

Cheers,

Ted


  #74   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 08:16 PM
Ted Byers
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?


"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...
Wow, out of control software... Not sure how that last one ended up
getting sent three times. Guess it was a spectacularly good post!!

Evidence of ghosts in the machine! ;-) ;-)

Cheers,

Ted


  #75   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 08:25 PM
Ted Byers
 
Posts: n/a
Default wild to cultivated changes?


"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...
Indeed, and I wish you well with your illness.


Thanks. The disease is diabetes, and the symptom that is particularly
debilitating is the neuropathy that comes with it. This nueropathy
generally results in altered sensation: temperature extremes are often not
felt (and since they're not felt, it is easy to receive even third degree
burns without knowing it), and physical damage is often not felt (which is
why diabetics frequently lose limbs - they've stepped on broken glass or a
mail or something, and the resulting would got sufficiently badly infected
that gangrene sets in leading to the loss of the limb if detected early
enough to prevent death), and finally, if often produces phantom pain in
which it feels like you're enfuring the worst imaginable tortures and yet
there is no corresponding injury. And then, of course, there ae all the
other diseases, such as kidney disease, heart disease, &.c for which
diabetics are quite vulnerable. There isn't an organ in the body that isn't
at risk because of diabetes. Low blood sugar can lead to a coma, while high
blood sugar levels does plenty of damage to all organs in the body.

While insulin and medications like metformin, and a couple others, are
useful in controlling blood sugar levels, there is nothing that can be done
for the neuropathy that I believe to be both safe and effective.

And diabetes will become an ever increasing problem since the incidence of
it in north america is increasing (not too surprising since the single
largest factor in its onset appears to be stress).

The worst day above

:-)

This can be taken two more ways (both being logically valid, given implied
assumptions).

1) The worst day in heaven is better than the best day on earth.
2) The worst day on earth is better than the best day in hell.

Cheers,

Ted


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