http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/6917/manure.htm

What do y'all think about growing orchids in horse manure?

Ruth CM

Nic is, and has been a proponent for years. While it may work, it's messy
and unsanitary.

I find my greenhouse a pleasant environment to visit. The last thing I want
to do is fill it with sh**.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"RPM1" wrote in message
...
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/6917/manure.htm

What do y'all think about growing orchids in horse manure?

Ruth CM

Ray wrote:

Nic is, and has been a proponent for years. While it may work, it's messy
and unsanitary.



Messy, a bit. Unsanitary? I strongly doubt that horse manure is a
vector of human disease. I wouldn't eat it, but you don't eat your
current potting mix, do you? Wash your hands.

I find my greenhouse a pleasant environment to visit. The last thing I want
to do is fill it with sh**.


Horse manure isn't bad. Pig manure... that smell will kill you.
Not a knock against Ray, but this seems to be a common problem these
days. Synthesized fertilizers (made from dead dinosaurs) are great, and
smell ok. Manure (made from live hay, via a live horse) smells a little
funky and so should be avoided at all costs. Yet another instance of
people being so distant from their food that the only thing the know
about vegetables is where they are located at the megamart. I
personally find the smell of horse manure to be kind of earthy. Would I
use it as cologne? No.

Do I use manure in my greenhouse? Don't have one yet. I do use it
in my garden. I moved approximately 100 yards of horse manure into my
garden last year, and will do it again this year. My vegetables were
not only tasty, but prolific and a wonderment to all who shared in the
bounty. If I did try it in my greenhouse, and saw excellent results,
then any visitors would have to cope with the aroma. They aren't
getting to my door without finding that aroma anyway, thanks to my
neighbors with the 30 horses...

I'm not at all saying I would use manure instead of 'regular'
fertilizers on orchids. There is a good reason to use well standardized
products. But in addtion to regular fertilizers? Maybe, if I was
feeling experimental. However, the experience of a farm boy leads me to
suggest: raw horse manu ok. Raw any other manure - no. Compost
anything else for a good long time before you use it (to remove odor,
strength, and any potential pathogens). Chicken manure will burn your
plants right up (and your hands). Horses are particularly inefficient
digestors, so the majority of the excrement is undigested fodder. The
other barnyard animals excrete much more potent waste.

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

Subject: Horse manure?
From: "RPM1"
Date: Mon, Feb 9, 2004 7:38 AM
Message-id:

http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/6917/manure.htm

What do y'all think about growing orchids in horse manure?

Ruth CM


Having read about this over the past year or two, I decided to give it a try
with cymbidiums, where it had been suggested in the first place. By way of
background, I have grown cymbidiums for several years, won ribbons at shows,
and twice won for best cymbidium in an annual society show.
Last spring I started with three plants, each of which had previously flowered.
They were repotted, with cleaning off all old media and being careful not to
damage the roots. They were repotted using only fresh horse manure. They were
watered every day as advised, and fed additionally, once a week with 100pp
N/gal of a balanced fertilizer.
In my opinion, they grew very well, but no better than previously, in a bark
mix. They are in flower, now, but each has the same number of inflorescences
that they produced last year.
The horse manure worked quite well, but no better than my bark mix.
Will I use it again? I doubt it as it is not as convenient; but there was no
odor, and I did not find it messy-just not as convenient.

Rob Halgren writes:
Messy, a bit. Unsanitary? I strongly doubt that horse manure is
a vector of human disease.

It is. Tetanus and other nasty germs thrive in more or less all kinds
of soil and manure.

and smell ok. Manure (made from live hay, via a live horse) smells a
little funky and so should be avoided at all costs. Yet another

This is wrong. You are talking about the fresh doodahs. If you ferment
the doodahs you get something akin to compost, and almost without a
smell. I use this stuff indoors on my limes, and nobody has complained
about any smell yet. They have said the taste is "fuller" than the
shopbought limes. I haven't had the heart to tell them why.

People _do_ think it is an interesting experience to be able to pick a
lime off the wall in the living room and put a slice directly into the
gin&tonic. Running a 250w HID light for the orchids during the day has
a couple of pleasant side effects.

Geir

Geir Harris Hedemark wrote:

Rob Halgren writes:


Messy, a bit. Unsanitary? I strongly doubt that horse manure is
a vector of human disease.



It is. Tetanus and other nasty germs thrive in more or less all kinds
of soil and manure.


Tetanus is anaerobic, I believe. Not likely to pick it up from
simple skin contact. But I think the point is "is it any more
unsanitary than garden dirt"? I don't know of any diseases that are
passed from horse to human via a fecal route. Other animals, sure. I
could be wrong, of course (say it ain't so!!). If you know of a
specific human pathogen in horse manure, then by all means let me know
so I know to take appropriate precautions. E. coli might be a danger,
but the only hazardous strains of that that I have seen are from
bovines. Of course there all sorts of microorganisms in any biological
sample, including what comes out of the back of a large grazing
animal... But it isn't biohazardous waste, requiring orange bags,
gloves, and a ventilator. I might use a shovel or pitchfork, and some
of those kitchen gloves if I was feeling particularly squeemish. Immune
compromised individuals should probably run screaming the other way, of
course. I've gotten far more diseases from my daughter's day-care
center than I have ever gotten working outside in the garden.


But I thought the trick of growing in horse manure involved using
....medium... fresh off the horse, so to speak. Anyway, I think that as
long as you don't eat it, grind it up and inject it under your skin (or
poke yourself with sharp objects in its presence), or snort it, you
shouldn't be able to harm yourself with fresh horse dung. You would
really have to go out of your way. It has a bit of a fragrance, but not
terribly offensive. It certainly doesn't smell like human waste. Wash
your hands after repotting. You should do that anyway, regardless of
what you pot in.


Once manure (of any kind) has been properly composted, it is safe,
however. Proper composting involves getting the pile to pretty warm
temperatures for a considerable time, which kills any remaining
pathogens. At that point it is as safe or safer than dirt. And smells
better, too. I wouldn't use other than barnyard manures on food crops.
Some 'organic' regulations (if you want to be certified as an organic
grower) require that no manures be applied to food crops within a few
weeks of harvest. Whatever. Some people compost dog or cat waste (not
I), or even human waste (again not I), but I think the general
recommendation there is that even if it has been well composted it is
best to use these manures on non-edible crops. It is quite easy to pass
human disease through human waste, so don't be stupid.


I partially compost my 'horsey gold' before putting it on the
garden. That means that when my neighbor drops it off (in big piles in
my yard), it usually takes a few days or a week or so before I can move
it. By then it has cooked a little bit. For a gardener, living next to
a horse farm is like finding diamonds in your soup.

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

Geir Harris Hedemark wrote:

Rob Halgren writes:


Messy, a bit. Unsanitary? I strongly doubt that horse manure is
a vector of human disease.



It is. Tetanus and other nasty germs thrive in more or less all kinds
of soil and manure.


Tetanus is anaerobic, I believe. Not likely to pick it up from
simple skin contact. But I think the point is "is it any more
unsanitary than garden dirt"? I don't know of any diseases that are
passed from horse to human via a fecal route. Other animals, sure. I
could be wrong, of course (say it ain't so!!). If you know of a
specific human pathogen in horse manure, then by all means let me know
so I know to take appropriate precautions. E. coli might be a danger,
but the only hazardous strains of that that I have seen are from
bovines. Of course there all sorts of microorganisms in any biological
sample, including what comes out of the back of a large grazing
animal... But it isn't biohazardous waste, requiring orange bags,
gloves, and a ventilator. I might use a shovel or pitchfork, and some
of those kitchen gloves if I was feeling particularly squeemish. Immune
compromised individuals should probably run screaming the other way, of
course. I've gotten far more diseases from my daughter's day-care
center than I have ever gotten working outside in the garden.


But I thought the trick of growing in horse manure involved using
....medium... fresh off the horse, so to speak. Anyway, I think that as
long as you don't eat it, grind it up and inject it under your skin (or
poke yourself with sharp objects in its presence), or snort it, you
shouldn't be able to harm yourself with fresh horse dung. You would
really have to go out of your way. It has a bit of a fragrance, but not
terribly offensive. It certainly doesn't smell like human waste. Wash
your hands after repotting. You should do that anyway, regardless of
what you pot in.


Once manure (of any kind) has been properly composted, it is safe,
however. Proper composting involves getting the pile to pretty warm
temperatures for a considerable time, which kills any remaining
pathogens. At that point it is as safe or safer than dirt. And smells
better, too. I wouldn't use other than barnyard manures on food crops.
Some 'organic' regulations (if you want to be certified as an organic
grower) require that no manures be applied to food crops within a few
weeks of harvest. Whatever. Some people compost dog or cat waste (not
I), or even human waste (again not I), but I think the general
recommendation there is that even if it has been well composted it is
best to use these manures on non-edible crops. It is quite easy to pass
human disease through human waste, so don't be stupid.


I partially compost my 'horsey gold' before putting it on the
garden. That means that when my neighbor drops it off (in big piles in
my yard), it usually takes a few days or a week or so before I can move
it. By then it has cooked a little bit. For a gardener, living next to
a horse farm is like finding diamonds in your soup.

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

Horse manure may be the way to go if one has had tetnus shots.

.. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

------------------------------------------
Wendy wrote:

: Rob -
: I think Geir is correct ... it is not hard on the digestion. It
: is hard on the keyboard. G
:
: SuE
: http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php
:
:
: This is precisely why I drink diet soda instead of coffee. I can
: still read the keys, and they don't stick to my fingers. Otherwise I'd
: be skroood. *grin*
:
: Rob
:
But...........but Rob, doesn't soda eat into the metal parts of a keyboard?
There was some experiment where a penny was put into
a glass of coca cola?
Cheers Wendy

I remember back on the farm, it was considered "hot." Tending to burn
plants if fresh. But, composted, it's fairly good stuff and much more
sanitary. I've never tried it for orchids. I've recently switch from
bark, cinder (volcanice), and perlite; to using cut coconut husk instead of
bark, better aeration and lighter.

--
--
David C. Vaughn
davon96720

http://members.tripod.com/davon96720

No of SETI units returned: 1355
Processing time: 1 years, 303 days, 17 hours.
(Total hours: 16049)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

"RPM1" wrote in message
...
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/6917/manure.htm

What do y'all think about growing orchids in horse manure?

Ruth CM

: Rob -
: I think Geir is correct ... it is not hard on the digestion. It
: is hard on the keyboard. G
:
: SuE
: http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php
:
:
: This is precisely why I drink diet soda instead of coffee. I can
: still read the keys, and they don't stick to my fingers. Otherwise I'd
: be skroood. *grin*
:
: Rob
:
But...........but Rob, doesn't soda eat into the metal parts of a keyboard?
There was some experiment where a penny was put into
a glass of coca cola?
Cheers Wendy

: Rob -
: I think Geir is correct ... it is not hard on the digestion. It
: is hard on the keyboard. G
:
: SuE
: http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php
:
:
: This is precisely why I drink diet soda instead of coffee. I can
: still read the keys, and they don't stick to my fingers. Otherwise I'd
: be skroood. *grin*
:
: Rob
:
But...........but Rob, doesn't soda eat into the metal parts of a keyboard?
There was some experiment where a penny was put into
a glass of coca cola?
Cheers Wendy

Xref: kermit rec.gardens.orchids:55667


"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...

The ONLY way your keyboard is going to be really safe is if a) you ban
liquids from within a metre of the keyboard, or b) you install a keyboard
condom (a flexible plastic envelop molded to the shape of your keyboard -
flexible so that you can type with it in place, but guaranteed to keep
liquids out of your keyboard unless it is torn or punctured).



ACKKK!!! First carpal tunnel and now I can't even drink the
programmer's friend? (Diet Mountain Dew...) I'm going to have to build
that greenhouse now, it is all over for me as a computer jockey.

Sure you can! Just get yourself a condom!

;-)

Cheers,

Ted

"Ted Byers" writes:
The ONLY way your keyboard is going to be really safe is if a) you ban
liquids from within a metre of the keyboard, or b) you install a keyboard
condom (a flexible plastic envelop molded to the shape of your keyboard -
flexible so that you can type with it in place, but guaranteed to keep
liquids out of your keyboard unless it is torn or punctured).

Keyboards are inexpensive. I keep a spare, and this one get to take a shower
with me (no, really) once in a while. When it dies, it will get a
proper burial in the dustbin before I break out the new one.

Keyboard condoms are only an option in kitchens where you want your
keyboards to be _clean_. But why are people typing when they should be
cooking my food?

Geir

Geir Harris Hedemark wrote in message ...
Rob Halgren writes:
Messy, a bit. Unsanitary? I strongly doubt that horse manure is
a vector of human disease.

It is. Tetanus and other nasty germs thrive in more or less all kinds
of soil and manure.


Indeed, the tetanus bacterium is a normal part of a horse's intestinal
flora.

This is also true for many other animals.

Curiously, horses themselves must be immunized against tetanus. The
situation is analogous to that involving humans and --E. coli--; as
long as the bacteria stay where they belong, they aren't a problem.
Introduced to other parts of the body, they cause trouble.

J. Del Col

Geir Harris Hedemark wrote in message ...
Rob Halgren writes:
Messy, a bit. Unsanitary? I strongly doubt that horse manure is
a vector of human disease.

It is. Tetanus and other nasty germs thrive in more or less all kinds
of soil and manure.


Indeed, the tetanus bacterium is a normal part of a horse's intestinal
flora.

This is also true for many other animals.

Curiously, horses themselves must be immunized against tetanus. The
situation is analogous to that involving humans and --E. coli--; as
long as the bacteria stay where they belong, they aren't a problem.
Introduced to other parts of the body, they cause trouble.

J. Del Col