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  #61   Report Post  
Old 09-03-2004, 10:50 PM
Larry Dighera
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:56:46 GMT, "House of Paisley"
wrote in Message-Id:
iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01:

I gave George the benefit of the doubt after
the last incident,


There was a previous incident involving George Norris?
  #62   Report Post  
Old 09-03-2004, 10:57 PM
Larry Dighera
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:50:56 GMT, "GrlIntrpted"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

A repost of a link that was posted to Orchid Spring Discussion Board.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...al/8118304.htm]



I found this information interesting:



Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:21:34 -1000
From: "Bill Bergstrom"
To: "Orchid"
Subject: [OGD] Arias
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Some of what you have been told about the arrest of Manuel Arias Silva
in Miami, some not quite true. George arrive at the show and so did
all the plants (quite legal) No Manuel..After extensive phoning
Manuel was found to be incarcerated. George went there and was denied
any info or visit (typical now days..same as Pepe) The idea was to
keep him there in jail indefinitely..No bail, no phone calls no
hearing (I guess) George and his wife (in the legal business) turned
that all around. They eventually set it up for Manuel (one of the
dearest people you would ever want to know..frail,,in terrible health)
to be released to Georges custody..In Texas...The prosecution
screamed..but bail was set..HOWEVER..he is still cooped up until
Monday..Weekend and all that..even though the procedure was finished
early Fri. (or so I am told) No charges were totally defined but
plenty discovered. NO Kovachii involved..merely Phrags in general and
the whole thing going back as long as ten years ago. I had previously
heard that it had to do with mislabeling a plant (according to F &W)
and maybe because plants of Phrag caudatum Sanderae were labeled
falsely as caudatum...If so..F&W is way off base..They are one and the
same and, in fact, no one is even calling the plant Sanderae at all
anymore..(I guess like the plants I used to sell as Peruviana and
Amazonica...names just dissolved away) Point being that much is to be
known if, in fact, there are 80 counts against him as I
heard..Further..rumor has it that plants were shipped with a
Maxillaria designation...The Miami local paper has a longer
account..very much filled with damning evidence...It looks bad for
both George and Manuel if true..Story has it that George is also to be
indicted when he goes home..hopefully with Manuel, who that had
evidently hoped to keep in jail to provide info against George..You
know...Get him to squeal..or never see the light of day or another
Peruvian sunset...What was the name of that book George Orwell put
out.??? Hell Cant remember..that time has passed..Or has it?
Lastly..from what I hear..A knight in armor has appeared and a lawyer
showed up at the show and offered to help Manuel..A lawyer who loves
and is quite familiar with Orchids...A definite plus for the
situation...We will be hearing about this for a long time to come I
fear...I can tell you this for certain. I have known Manuel for 25
years and a finer, more respectable man you will never meet..George
and I have had our differences through the years..but I have never
heard a breath of his attempting to sell illegal stuff (though the
news article says there is evidence that he did) You can take things
out of context when you read between the lines on that article...Were
they illegal (by someone's standard) Phrags he was discussing in his
messages (somehow obtained..hundreds of them) to Manuel..or simply
instructions on how to get every day Orchids easily and quickly
through the paper work..Only time will tell...My fears are that it is
not the actual situation we should be shuddering about..but the
process that has brought it about and what that means to our rights
and to our privacy. Bill
------------------------------

  #63   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 12:22 AM
Larry Dighera
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:56:46 GMT, "House of Paisley"
wrote in Message-Id:
iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01:

I gave George the benefit of the doubt after
the last incident,


There was a previous incident involving George Norris?
  #64   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 12:30 AM
Larry Dighera
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:50:56 GMT, "GrlIntrpted"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

A repost of a link that was posted to Orchid Spring Discussion Board.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...al/8118304.htm]



I found this information interesting:



Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:21:34 -1000
From: "Bill Bergstrom"
To: "Orchid"
Subject: [OGD] Arias
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Some of what you have been told about the arrest of Manuel Arias Silva
in Miami, some not quite true. George arrive at the show and so did
all the plants (quite legal) No Manuel..After extensive phoning
Manuel was found to be incarcerated. George went there and was denied
any info or visit (typical now days..same as Pepe) The idea was to
keep him there in jail indefinitely..No bail, no phone calls no
hearing (I guess) George and his wife (in the legal business) turned
that all around. They eventually set it up for Manuel (one of the
dearest people you would ever want to know..frail,,in terrible health)
to be released to Georges custody..In Texas...The prosecution
screamed..but bail was set..HOWEVER..he is still cooped up until
Monday..Weekend and all that..even though the procedure was finished
early Fri. (or so I am told) No charges were totally defined but
plenty discovered. NO Kovachii involved..merely Phrags in general and
the whole thing going back as long as ten years ago. I had previously
heard that it had to do with mislabeling a plant (according to F &W)
and maybe because plants of Phrag caudatum Sanderae were labeled
falsely as caudatum...If so..F&W is way off base..They are one and the
same and, in fact, no one is even calling the plant Sanderae at all
anymore..(I guess like the plants I used to sell as Peruviana and
Amazonica...names just dissolved away) Point being that much is to be
known if, in fact, there are 80 counts against him as I
heard..Further..rumor has it that plants were shipped with a
Maxillaria designation...The Miami local paper has a longer
account..very much filled with damning evidence...It looks bad for
both George and Manuel if true..Story has it that George is also to be
indicted when he goes home..hopefully with Manuel, who that had
evidently hoped to keep in jail to provide info against George..You
know...Get him to squeal..or never see the light of day or another
Peruvian sunset...What was the name of that book George Orwell put
out.??? Hell Cant remember..that time has passed..Or has it?
Lastly..from what I hear..A knight in armor has appeared and a lawyer
showed up at the show and offered to help Manuel..A lawyer who loves
and is quite familiar with Orchids...A definite plus for the
situation...We will be hearing about this for a long time to come I
fear...I can tell you this for certain. I have known Manuel for 25
years and a finer, more respectable man you will never meet..George
and I have had our differences through the years..but I have never
heard a breath of his attempting to sell illegal stuff (though the
news article says there is evidence that he did) You can take things
out of context when you read between the lines on that article...Were
they illegal (by someone's standard) Phrags he was discussing in his
messages (somehow obtained..hundreds of them) to Manuel..or simply
instructions on how to get every day Orchids easily and quickly
through the paper work..Only time will tell...My fears are that it is
not the actual situation we should be shuddering about..but the
process that has brought it about and what that means to our rights
and to our privacy. Bill
------------------------------

  #65   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 12:35 AM
House of Paisley
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

I suppose it depends on if you think what happened in Florida
is considered an incident.

Crystal

--
http://home.comcast.net/~xtals/orchid.htm
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:56:46 GMT, "House of Paisley"
wrote in Message-Id:
iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01:

I gave George the benefit of the doubt after
the last incident,


There was a previous incident involving George Norris?





  #66   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 12:38 AM
Ray
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

Crystal,

My only concern related to the "stringency" with which the inspection
stations work has to do with their experience with orchids. I can tell you
from personal experience that some know what they're doing better than
others.

In some cases, clusters of pseudobulbs were torn apart before the
formerly-specimen-plants got to me, while in others, they look like they
took a course from me on orchid handling and packing.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"House of Paisley" wrote in message
news:iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01...
True or untrue, there is something about this story that doesn't
add up to me. I gave George the benefit of the doubt after
the last incident, but am finding it harder to do so now. If I
were in his position I would have wanted my shipments to go
through the most stringent import station and specifically
requested my imports be thoroughly inspected to avert further
attention. Sure it would take longer, but there are other vendors
where it takes months to get through the inspection process. I
do have to say in his defense that I specifically check each plant
I buy from any vendor to make sure it isn't a cites problem
and none that I considered buying from his lists seemed to
be restricted, but I don't check every plant on his lists, and
don't buy Paphs. So take from that what you will.

Crystal

--
http://home.comcast.net/~xtals/orchid.htm
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...


I was working under the assunmption the charges are likely true. If
not then I hope he is exonerated. BUT when it comes to fols who ARE
guilty of wholesale rampaging through wild stock I have no pity or use
for them.


MY Humble opinion of course.

And Ray I agreee with you on Dubya but this is not the proper forum
for that discussion! G

Dave





  #67   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 12:48 AM
Kenni Judd
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

The difference is not only in their handling of plants -- as to which my
experience is similar to Ray's -- but in their understanding of the actual
laws and regulations.

I once made the mistake of calling to find out if I needed CITES docs to
ship to a US possession [Guam]; the person I spoke to insisted that I did,
and faxed me the regs upon which he was relying -- which stated, as clearly
as gov't docs get, on the very first page, that I did not. Although the
sale that I lost as a result would have been a nice one, it wasn't big
enough to "fight city hall" over. [And although it wouldn't have mattered
under the language of the regs, the orchids in question were not species, or
even primary hybrids, so there was literally ZERO possibility that they
could have been wild-collected.]
--
Kenni Judd
Juno Beach Orchids
http://www.jborchids.com


"Ray" wrote in message
...
Crystal,

My only concern related to the "stringency" with which the inspection
stations work has to do with their experience with orchids. I can tell

you
from personal experience that some know what they're doing better than
others.

In some cases, clusters of pseudobulbs were torn apart before the
formerly-specimen-plants got to me, while in others, they look like they
took a course from me on orchid handling and packing.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"House of Paisley" wrote in message
news:iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01...
True or untrue, there is something about this story that doesn't
add up to me. I gave George the benefit of the doubt after
the last incident, but am finding it harder to do so now. If I
were in his position I would have wanted my shipments to go
through the most stringent import station and specifically
requested my imports be thoroughly inspected to avert further
attention. Sure it would take longer, but there are other vendors
where it takes months to get through the inspection process. I
do have to say in his defense that I specifically check each plant
I buy from any vendor to make sure it isn't a cites problem
and none that I considered buying from his lists seemed to
be restricted, but I don't check every plant on his lists, and
don't buy Paphs. So take from that what you will.

Crystal

--
http://home.comcast.net/~xtals/orchid.htm
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...


I was working under the assunmption the charges are likely true. If
not then I hope he is exonerated. BUT when it comes to fols who ARE
guilty of wholesale rampaging through wild stock I have no pity or use
for them.


MY Humble opinion of course.

And Ray I agreee with you on Dubya but this is not the proper forum
for that discussion! G

Dave







  #68   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 01:09 AM
Larry Dighera
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:56:46 GMT, "House of Paisley"
wrote in Message-Id:
iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01:

I gave George the benefit of the doubt after
the last incident,


There was a previous incident involving George Norris?
  #69   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 01:09 AM
Larry Dighera
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:56:46 GMT, "House of Paisley"
wrote in Message-Id:
iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01:

I gave George the benefit of the doubt after
the last incident,


There was a previous incident involving George Norris?
  #70   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 01:15 AM
Larry Dighera
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:50:56 GMT, "GrlIntrpted"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

A repost of a link that was posted to Orchid Spring Discussion Board.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...al/8118304.htm]



I found this information interesting:



Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:21:34 -1000
From: "Bill Bergstrom"
To: "Orchid"
Subject: [OGD] Arias
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Some of what you have been told about the arrest of Manuel Arias Silva
in Miami, some not quite true. George arrive at the show and so did
all the plants (quite legal) No Manuel..After extensive phoning
Manuel was found to be incarcerated. George went there and was denied
any info or visit (typical now days..same as Pepe) The idea was to
keep him there in jail indefinitely..No bail, no phone calls no
hearing (I guess) George and his wife (in the legal business) turned
that all around. They eventually set it up for Manuel (one of the
dearest people you would ever want to know..frail,,in terrible health)
to be released to Georges custody..In Texas...The prosecution
screamed..but bail was set..HOWEVER..he is still cooped up until
Monday..Weekend and all that..even though the procedure was finished
early Fri. (or so I am told) No charges were totally defined but
plenty discovered. NO Kovachii involved..merely Phrags in general and
the whole thing going back as long as ten years ago. I had previously
heard that it had to do with mislabeling a plant (according to F &W)
and maybe because plants of Phrag caudatum Sanderae were labeled
falsely as caudatum...If so..F&W is way off base..They are one and the
same and, in fact, no one is even calling the plant Sanderae at all
anymore..(I guess like the plants I used to sell as Peruviana and
Amazonica...names just dissolved away) Point being that much is to be
known if, in fact, there are 80 counts against him as I
heard..Further..rumor has it that plants were shipped with a
Maxillaria designation...The Miami local paper has a longer
account..very much filled with damning evidence...It looks bad for
both George and Manuel if true..Story has it that George is also to be
indicted when he goes home..hopefully with Manuel, who that had
evidently hoped to keep in jail to provide info against George..You
know...Get him to squeal..or never see the light of day or another
Peruvian sunset...What was the name of that book George Orwell put
out.??? Hell Cant remember..that time has passed..Or has it?
Lastly..from what I hear..A knight in armor has appeared and a lawyer
showed up at the show and offered to help Manuel..A lawyer who loves
and is quite familiar with Orchids...A definite plus for the
situation...We will be hearing about this for a long time to come I
fear...I can tell you this for certain. I have known Manuel for 25
years and a finer, more respectable man you will never meet..George
and I have had our differences through the years..but I have never
heard a breath of his attempting to sell illegal stuff (though the
news article says there is evidence that he did) You can take things
out of context when you read between the lines on that article...Were
they illegal (by someone's standard) Phrags he was discussing in his
messages (somehow obtained..hundreds of them) to Manuel..or simply
instructions on how to get every day Orchids easily and quickly
through the paper work..Only time will tell...My fears are that it is
not the actual situation we should be shuddering about..but the
process that has brought it about and what that means to our rights
and to our privacy. Bill
------------------------------



  #71   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 01:15 AM
Larry Dighera
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:50:56 GMT, "GrlIntrpted"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

A repost of a link that was posted to Orchid Spring Discussion Board.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...al/8118304.htm]



I found this information interesting:



Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:21:34 -1000
From: "Bill Bergstrom"
To: "Orchid"
Subject: [OGD] Arias
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Some of what you have been told about the arrest of Manuel Arias Silva
in Miami, some not quite true. George arrive at the show and so did
all the plants (quite legal) No Manuel..After extensive phoning
Manuel was found to be incarcerated. George went there and was denied
any info or visit (typical now days..same as Pepe) The idea was to
keep him there in jail indefinitely..No bail, no phone calls no
hearing (I guess) George and his wife (in the legal business) turned
that all around. They eventually set it up for Manuel (one of the
dearest people you would ever want to know..frail,,in terrible health)
to be released to Georges custody..In Texas...The prosecution
screamed..but bail was set..HOWEVER..he is still cooped up until
Monday..Weekend and all that..even though the procedure was finished
early Fri. (or so I am told) No charges were totally defined but
plenty discovered. NO Kovachii involved..merely Phrags in general and
the whole thing going back as long as ten years ago. I had previously
heard that it had to do with mislabeling a plant (according to F &W)
and maybe because plants of Phrag caudatum Sanderae were labeled
falsely as caudatum...If so..F&W is way off base..They are one and the
same and, in fact, no one is even calling the plant Sanderae at all
anymore..(I guess like the plants I used to sell as Peruviana and
Amazonica...names just dissolved away) Point being that much is to be
known if, in fact, there are 80 counts against him as I
heard..Further..rumor has it that plants were shipped with a
Maxillaria designation...The Miami local paper has a longer
account..very much filled with damning evidence...It looks bad for
both George and Manuel if true..Story has it that George is also to be
indicted when he goes home..hopefully with Manuel, who that had
evidently hoped to keep in jail to provide info against George..You
know...Get him to squeal..or never see the light of day or another
Peruvian sunset...What was the name of that book George Orwell put
out.??? Hell Cant remember..that time has passed..Or has it?
Lastly..from what I hear..A knight in armor has appeared and a lawyer
showed up at the show and offered to help Manuel..A lawyer who loves
and is quite familiar with Orchids...A definite plus for the
situation...We will be hearing about this for a long time to come I
fear...I can tell you this for certain. I have known Manuel for 25
years and a finer, more respectable man you will never meet..George
and I have had our differences through the years..but I have never
heard a breath of his attempting to sell illegal stuff (though the
news article says there is evidence that he did) You can take things
out of context when you read between the lines on that article...Were
they illegal (by someone's standard) Phrags he was discussing in his
messages (somehow obtained..hundreds of them) to Manuel..or simply
instructions on how to get every day Orchids easily and quickly
through the paper work..Only time will tell...My fears are that it is
not the actual situation we should be shuddering about..but the
process that has brought it about and what that means to our rights
and to our privacy. Bill
------------------------------

  #72   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 01:15 AM
GrlIntrpted
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

I'm no orchid vendor, just a small time orchid grower, so I don't really
know which entry points in the USA are tighter on plant inspection. I can
however tell you that when I brought my orchids from Hawai'i to the
mainland, and informed the authorities (both when leaving Hawai'i as well as
when I got to NY) that I am bringing orchids with me, they didn't even want
to look in the boxes, in fact, they asked for no paperwork at all. Now, I
didn't bring anything that "shouldn't" be in my collection, but I found it
very odd that they could care less about what was inside of the boxes....


Mariana

"House of Paisley" wrote in message
news:iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01...
True or untrue, there is something about this story that doesn't
add up to me. I gave George the benefit of the doubt after
the last incident, but am finding it harder to do so now. If I
were in his position I would have wanted my shipments to go
through the most stringent import station and specifically
requested my imports be thoroughly inspected to avert further
attention. Sure it would take longer, but there are other vendors
where it takes months to get through the inspection process. I
do have to say in his defense that I specifically check each plant
I buy from any vendor to make sure it isn't a cites problem
and none that I considered buying from his lists seemed to
be restricted, but I don't check every plant on his lists, and
don't buy Paphs. So take from that what you will.

Crystal

--
http://home.comcast.net/~xtals/orchid.htm
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...


I was working under the assunmption the charges are likely true. If
not then I hope he is exonerated. BUT when it comes to fols who ARE
guilty of wholesale rampaging through wild stock I have no pity or use
for them.


MY Humble opinion of course.

And Ray I agreee with you on Dubya but this is not the proper forum
for that discussion! G

Dave





  #73   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 01:29 AM
GrlIntrpted
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

I'm no orchid vendor, just a small time orchid grower, so I don't really
know which entry points in the USA are tighter on plant inspection. I can
however tell you that when I brought my orchids from Hawai'i to the
mainland, and informed the authorities (both when leaving Hawai'i as well as
when I got to NY) that I am bringing orchids with me, they didn't even want
to look in the boxes, in fact, they asked for no paperwork at all. Now, I
didn't bring anything that "shouldn't" be in my collection, but I found it
very odd that they could care less about what was inside of the boxes....


Mariana

"House of Paisley" wrote in message
news:iHm3c.508962$I06.5523810@attbi_s01...
True or untrue, there is something about this story that doesn't
add up to me. I gave George the benefit of the doubt after
the last incident, but am finding it harder to do so now. If I
were in his position I would have wanted my shipments to go
through the most stringent import station and specifically
requested my imports be thoroughly inspected to avert further
attention. Sure it would take longer, but there are other vendors
where it takes months to get through the inspection process. I
do have to say in his defense that I specifically check each plant
I buy from any vendor to make sure it isn't a cites problem
and none that I considered buying from his lists seemed to
be restricted, but I don't check every plant on his lists, and
don't buy Paphs. So take from that what you will.

Crystal

--
http://home.comcast.net/~xtals/orchid.htm
"David Fouchey" wrote in message
...


I was working under the assunmption the charges are likely true. If
not then I hope he is exonerated. BUT when it comes to fols who ARE
guilty of wholesale rampaging through wild stock I have no pity or use
for them.


MY Humble opinion of course.

And Ray I agreee with you on Dubya but this is not the proper forum
for that discussion! G

Dave





  #74   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 04:51 AM
Michael Gerzog
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

"GrlIntrpted" wrote in message .net...

I can
however tell you that when I brought my orchids from Hawai'i to the
mainland, and informed the authorities (both when leaving Hawai'i as well as
when I got to NY) that I am bringing orchids with me, they didn't even want
to look in the boxes, in fact, they asked for no paperwork at all. Now, I
didn't bring anything that "shouldn't" be in my collection, but I found it
very odd that they could care less about what was inside of the boxes....


Mariana


Yabbut that's is a totally different situation. Fortunately, we're
not at the point where one needs CITES certificates to take listed
plants from state to state. Hawaii isn't a foreign country and NY
doesn't worry very much about interstate plant movement from a
phytosanitary standpoint. I'm sure Arizona or California would have
been very interested if one of those states were your final
destination, since they have very strict phytosanitary laws/regs.

MG
  #75   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 05:07 AM
Michael Gerzog
 
Posts: n/a
Default More arrests....

"GrlIntrpted" wrote in message .net...

I can
however tell you that when I brought my orchids from Hawai'i to the
mainland, and informed the authorities (both when leaving Hawai'i as well as
when I got to NY) that I am bringing orchids with me, they didn't even want
to look in the boxes, in fact, they asked for no paperwork at all. Now, I
didn't bring anything that "shouldn't" be in my collection, but I found it
very odd that they could care less about what was inside of the boxes....


Mariana


Yabbut that's is a totally different situation. Fortunately, we're
not at the point where one needs CITES certificates to take listed
plants from state to state. Hawaii isn't a foreign country and NY
doesn't worry very much about interstate plant movement from a
phytosanitary standpoint. I'm sure Arizona or California would have
been very interested if one of those states were your final
destination, since they have very strict phytosanitary laws/regs.

MG
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More arrests.... theoneflasehaddock Gardening 0 17-03-2004 04:06 PM


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