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Dave Sheehy 23-01-2003 06:26 PM

Accordian Leaves
 
Al ) wrote:
: Usually this is an indication that the leaf tissue did not have enough
: available water to fully expand the cells in it while the leaf was young and
: trying to expand to its full size. If this is the case with your plants
: this condition does not reverse itself on a leaf already pleated but keep an
: eye on the plant and when new leaves start to grow make sure you increase
: the amount of water available to them.

OK, that makes a lot of sense.

: I have seen Oncidiums and Cochleanthes type orchids do this. Cochleanthes
: (The Bollea tribe?) do it if you just walk past them with a hose and do not
: offer water. I suspect any orchid with thin strap-like leaves can be
: susceptible to it. Phals, being a bit more succulent do not do pleat in
: quite the same way from lack of water; instead they get kind of wavy and
: their edges turn under. I think newly emerging Cattleya leaves also express
: their dissatisfaction with the amount of available moisture in the same way
: as Phals.

The plant that I'm having this problem with right now is a Brassia verrucosa
so that matches suspicion about thin strap-like leaves. It got under-watered
after I first acquired it and before it got moved into a basket. It gets
regular attention these days so we'll see if this problem goes away. Slightly
OT but I had read that Brassia don't like being disturbed but this particular
individual is going gangbusters developing a lot of new roots after moving
from the pot it came in to the basket.

The other plants I've seen this pleating on are my Cattleyas. The watering
explanation surprise me a bit here as I would have guessed that my Catts
are a bit overwatered if anything. I mix some potting soil and vermiculite
with the bark that I use for potting so that it retains moisture better than
just bark alone.

Dave


Gene Schurg 23-01-2003 11:42 PM

Accordian Leaves
 
Dave,

Check the roots too. I've seen this happen when the roots have been damaged
(rotted because of bad medium) and the new growth is unable to take up water
so they make the accordian shape.

This usually happens to my plants that have thin leaves.

Gene



"Dave Sheehy" wrote in message
...
Al ) wrote:
: Usually this is an indication that the leaf tissue did not have enough
: available water to fully expand the cells in it while the leaf was young

and
: trying to expand to its full size. If this is the case with your plants
: this condition does not reverse itself on a leaf already pleated but

keep an
: eye on the plant and when new leaves start to grow make sure you

increase
: the amount of water available to them.

OK, that makes a lot of sense.

: I have seen Oncidiums and Cochleanthes type orchids do this.

Cochleanthes
: (The Bollea tribe?) do it if you just walk past them with a hose and do

not
: offer water. I suspect any orchid with thin strap-like leaves can be
: susceptible to it. Phals, being a bit more succulent do not do pleat in
: quite the same way from lack of water; instead they get kind of wavy and
: their edges turn under. I think newly emerging Cattleya leaves also

express
: their dissatisfaction with the amount of available moisture in the same

way
: as Phals.

The plant that I'm having this problem with right now is a Brassia

verrucosa
so that matches suspicion about thin strap-like leaves. It got

under-watered
after I first acquired it and before it got moved into a basket. It gets
regular attention these days so we'll see if this problem goes away.

Slightly
OT but I had read that Brassia don't like being disturbed but this

particular
individual is going gangbusters developing a lot of new roots after moving
from the pot it came in to the basket.

The other plants I've seen this pleating on are my Cattleyas. The watering
explanation surprise me a bit here as I would have guessed that my Catts
are a bit overwatered if anything. I mix some potting soil and vermiculite
with the bark that I use for potting so that it retains moisture better

than
just bark alone.

Dave




profpam 24-01-2003 01:48 AM

Accordian Leaves
 
Hi, Dave,

I didn't seen outright whether the orchid is cattleya or oncidium or
something else. What I have found to promote growth is to remove the
plants with its roots from the pot and place it on top of the medium
with some moss. The air in combo with the moss seems to help promote
new growth. I have successfully performed re-growth on numerous
cattleya types, oncidiums, and others. Although some folks have success
with the plastic bag and moss, I have never found this method
successful.

.. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html -- Everything Orchid Management
System -- new release now better than ever!!!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gene Schurg wrote:

Dave,

Check the roots too. I've seen this happen when the roots have been damaged
(rotted because of bad medium) and the new growth is unable to take up water
so they make the accordian shape.

This usually happens to my plants that have thin leaves.

Gene

"Dave Sheehy" wrote in message
...
Al ) wrote:
: Usually this is an indication that the leaf tissue did not have enough
: available water to fully expand the cells in it while the leaf was young

and
: trying to expand to its full size. If this is the case with your plants
: this condition does not reverse itself on a leaf already pleated but

keep an
: eye on the plant and when new leaves start to grow make sure you

increase
: the amount of water available to them.

OK, that makes a lot of sense.

: I have seen Oncidiums and Cochleanthes type orchids do this.

Cochleanthes
: (The Bollea tribe?) do it if you just walk past them with a hose and do

not
: offer water. I suspect any orchid with thin strap-like leaves can be
: susceptible to it. Phals, being a bit more succulent do not do pleat in
: quite the same way from lack of water; instead they get kind of wavy and
: their edges turn under. I think newly emerging Cattleya leaves also

express
: their dissatisfaction with the amount of available moisture in the same

way
: as Phals.

The plant that I'm having this problem with right now is a Brassia

verrucosa
so that matches suspicion about thin strap-like leaves. It got

under-watered
after I first acquired it and before it got moved into a basket. It gets
regular attention these days so we'll see if this problem goes away.

Slightly
OT but I had read that Brassia don't like being disturbed but this

particular
individual is going gangbusters developing a lot of new roots after moving
from the pot it came in to the basket.

The other plants I've seen this pleating on are my Cattleyas. The watering
explanation surprise me a bit here as I would have guessed that my Catts
are a bit overwatered if anything. I mix some potting soil and vermiculite
with the bark that I use for potting so that it retains moisture better

than
just bark alone.

Dave


Dave Sheehy 24-01-2003 02:37 AM

Accordian Leaves
 
Gene Schurg ) wrote:
: Gee...and I was going to guess bad polka music piped into the greenhouse
: caused this!

Well, I do have a Celtic Rock CD complete with bagpipes but the plant predates
the CD so that can't be it. The heavy metal is something to consider though.
It makes some folks hair curl so maybe it could cause orchid leaves to
pleat. ;-)

Dave


Dave Sheehy 24-01-2003 02:49 AM

Accordian Leaves
 
Gene Schurg ) wrote:
: Dave,

: Check the roots too. I've seen this happen when the roots have been damaged
: (rotted because of bad medium) and the new growth is unable to take up water
: so they make the accordian shape.

This jives too but for reasons other than root rot. This plant came in a 4"
pot which it overflowed on all sides. It's basically a 6" plant in a 4" pot.
I was watering the pot but not misting the outside of the plant. Most of the
new root growth was developing outside of the pot so they weren't getting
much water. Now that it's in the basket it mostly gets sprayed with an
occasional dunking. My orchids are all in the kitchen window behind the sink
so sufficient watering will be an ongoing issue no doubt. All my other orchids
are potted so this is an experiment of sorts to see if it will be feasible
to keep mounted or orchids in baskets successfully in my environment.

Dave


Susan Erickson 24-01-2003 04:51 AM

Accordian Leaves
 
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:26:01 +0000 (UTC),
(Dave Sheehy) wrote:
The other plants I've seen this pleating on are my Cattleyas. The watering
explanation surprise me a bit here as I would have guessed that my Catts
are a bit overwatered if anything. I mix some potting soil and vermiculite
with the bark that I use for potting so that it retains moisture better than
just bark alone.

Dave


Dave -
Are you sure the potting soil is not smothering the roots? That
could cause the Cattleya roots to not function adequately. If
you want your mix more water retentive add CHC or some Sphagnum
moss, or go Semi-Hydro. You need air at the roots too and my
guess is the potting soil is compacting just as broken down mix
does.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

Dave Sheehy 24-01-2003 06:22 PM

Accordian Leaves
 
Susan Erickson ) wrote:
: Are you sure the potting soil is not smothering the roots?

I don't believe so. I always inspect the root system when I re-pot and
there is always a healthy set of roots along with the usual contingent of
old dead roots that get pruned off. As you suggest the trick of course is
to add enough soil/vermiculite to enhance moisture retention but not so
much that you plug the whole thing up. Some of the commercially available
orchid mixes I've seen have this sort of composition. I'm just mixing my
own version. I've had one of my Catts for 15 years and it's always been
potted in my homegrown mix.

: That
: could cause the Cattleya roots to not function adequately. If
: you want your mix more water retentive add CHC or some Sphagnum
: moss, or go Semi-Hydro. You need air at the roots too and my
: guess is the potting soil is compacting just as broken down mix
: does.

Thanks for the suggestions. I saw a post recently that talked about a
water absorbant polymer (is that what CHC is?) that sounded intriguing
as a possible substitute for the soil/vermiculite. I like your idea of
mixing some sphagnum into the mix too.

Historically, I've always been most successful using bark but some of my
recent acquisitions have been potted in sphagnum and they seem to be doing
well. So, I may experiment with that media some more.

Dave


Ray @ First Rays Orchids 24-01-2003 10:20 PM

Accordian Leaves
 
Dave,

CHC is coconut husk chips - a great substitute for bark in media.

--

Ray Barkalow First Rays Orchids
http://www.firstrays.com
Secure Online Ordering & Lots of Free Info!


"Dave Sheehy" wrote in message
...
Susan Erickson ) wrote:
: Are you sure the potting soil is not smothering the roots?

I don't believe so. I always inspect the root system when I re-pot and
there is always a healthy set of roots along with the usual contingent of
old dead roots that get pruned off. As you suggest the trick of course is
to add enough soil/vermiculite to enhance moisture retention but not so
much that you plug the whole thing up. Some of the commercially available
orchid mixes I've seen have this sort of composition. I'm just mixing my
own version. I've had one of my Catts for 15 years and it's always been
potted in my homegrown mix.

: That
: could cause the Cattleya roots to not function adequately. If
: you want your mix more water retentive add CHC or some Sphagnum
: moss, or go Semi-Hydro. You need air at the roots too and my
: guess is the potting soil is compacting just as broken down mix
: does.

Thanks for the suggestions. I saw a post recently that talked about a
water absorbant polymer (is that what CHC is?) that sounded intriguing
as a possible substitute for the soil/vermiculite. I like your idea of
mixing some sphagnum into the mix too.

Historically, I've always been most successful using bark but some of my
recent acquisitions have been potted in sphagnum and they seem to be doing
well. So, I may experiment with that media some more.

Dave





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