Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

What is the difference between isopropyl and ethyl alcohol? Can I use ethyl
alcohol in place of isopropyl in an alcohol/soap/water solution for spraying
pests???
Can't seem to find isopropyl in Italy. :-(
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html



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Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Isopropanol is C3H8O
Ethanol is C2H6O
Methanol CH4O

The smaller the molecule, the easier it is likelier to be for it to enter the plant tissue. I have
heard of plant toxicity with ethanol, but have seen no evidence of it myself.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Reka" wrote in message ...
What is the difference between isopropyl and ethyl alcohol? Can I use ethyl
alcohol in place of isopropyl in an alcohol/soap/water solution for spraying
pests???
Can't seem to find isopropyl in Italy. :-(
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html



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Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Umm, can you say that first part again in English?? :-)
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html

"Ray" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Isopropanol is C3H8O
Ethanol is C2H6O
Methanol CH4O

The smaller the molecule, the easier it is likelier to be for it to enter
the plant tissue. I have
heard of plant toxicity with ethanol, but have seen no evidence of it
myself.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Reka" wrote in message
...
What is the difference between isopropyl and ethyl alcohol? Can I use
ethyl
alcohol in place of isopropyl in an alcohol/soap/water solution for
spraying
pests???



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Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

On Wed, 26 May 2004 12:10:03 +0200, "Reka"
wrote:

Umm, can you say that first part again in English?? :-)

Reka, is there not a rubbing alcohol or 'skin bracer' or
astringent? I have seen all three as names for alcohol.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Yep, but just ethyl alcohol. I can even get that 96% alcohol! The only
thing I can find on the web in Italian is for cleaning lenses and other use
in photography, so I will ask a friend's daughter who works for a
photographer.
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
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"Susan Erickson" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
On Wed, 26 May 2004 12:10:03 +0200, "Reka"
wrote:

Umm, can you say that first part again in English?? :-)

Reka, is there not a rubbing alcohol or 'skin bracer' or
astringent? I have seen all three as names for alcohol.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php


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Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Ethyl is made of grain , where as Isopropyl is made of wood , I think that
is correct ...its been along time scince chemistry in school...
Good Growing
Todd
"Reka" wrote in message
...
What is the difference between isopropyl and ethyl alcohol? Can I use
ethyl
alcohol in place of isopropyl in an alcohol/soap/water solution for
spraying
pests???
Can't seem to find isopropyl in Italy. :-(
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html



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Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Orchidguy wrote:

Ethyl is made of grain , where as Isopropyl is made of wood , I think that
is correct ...its been along time scince chemistry in school...
Good Growing



Actually methanol is usually considered 'wood alcohol', I think.
You can get it by 'distilling' wood, or cooking it at high temperature
to drive off various gaseous fractions. One of those fractions is
methanol. I'm sure it is made in a more efficient synthetic process by
some chemical plant somewhere. It is used _a lot_ in organic chemistry
and industrial organic processes. Ethanol is a by product of yeast
metabolism. The other major product is carbon dioxide. That is why you
get bubbles in beer and bubbles in bread, although any sugar source will
work for a yeast, it doesn't have to be grain. While there is a
synthetic method for making it, it is almost certainly cheaper to make
ethanol using yeast. I'm not sure where isopropyl comes from. To the
point at hand, you can't substitute one for the other. You can indeed
disinfect things with 70% ethanol (which, curiously, is a better
disinfectant than 95% ethanol). We used it all the time in the tissue
culture hood. And it will indeed kill critters, ethanol is a pretty
potent poison (in mammals as well). I've heard, however, that spraying
ethanol on your plants isn't particularly good for them, perhaps because
it is more membrane soluble. I've never tried it.


In the random trivia category, it is a bit of an 'old wives tale'
that you can kill yourself with methanol poisoning by distilling your
own spiritous liquor. Like our american backwoods favorite 'moonshine'
(also called white lightning, a corn liquor). That is probably a myth
started by the government to discourage home production (and gather more
in liquor taxes). Methanol is not produced by yeast in any significant
amount, and there isn't really a mechanism for it being created when you
distill ethanol out of a fermented beverage. At least not at
temperatures you are likely to use... Now I'm sure you could kill
yourself with moonshine, but it probably isn't methanol poisoning.


Also curiously enough, methanol was (maybe still is) being marketed
as part of one of those 'wonder-grow' formulas here in the US some time
ago. Evidently a little methanol in your fertilizer enhances orchid
growth (as do some other, more expensive, alcohols). Of course it might
also make your new growths floppy and prone to disease, but that doesn't
seem to dissuade people. Ethanol won't have the same effect, nor would
isopropyl. They are all alcohols, but that just means they have an OH
group attached to a carbon somewhere. There are all sorts of alcohols
(hundreds if not gazillions), and they all have different chemical
properties. If I recall properly, the synthetic form of estrogen
(estradiol) is an alcohol (actually a double alcohol - diol). It
certainly behaves differently than ethanol.


All of that said, I have trouble believing that Reka can't get
isopropyl alcohol. I'd suggest asking the pharmacist (or
chemist/apothecary/or whatever your local word may be) for it by that
name. I'm sure it is available, it might just be called something else.

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
LittlefrogFarm is open for business - e-mail me for a list of
minicatts and oncidiums )

Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Well,actually, my pharmacist is the first one I asked, and he said he can't
get it. There are however quite a few things you can't get here that you
can in the States. Matter of culture, I suppose. :-) Did see DONUTS at the
autostrada rest stop this year. Can't stop unhealthy, good food from
traveling across borders, I guess.
Hope someone proves me wrong and I can find it here somewhere. To the
dismay of my mealies!
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html

"Rob Halgren" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...

All of that said, I have trouble believing that Reka can't get
isopropyl alcohol. I'd suggest asking the pharmacist (or
chemist/apothecary/or whatever your local word may be) for it by that
name. I'm sure it is available, it might just be called something else.




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Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Reka wrote:

Well,actually, my pharmacist is the first one I asked, and he said he can't
get it. There are however quite a few things you can't get here that you
can in the States. Matter of culture, I suppose. :-) Did see DONUTS at the
autostrada rest stop this year. Can't stop unhealthy, good food from
traveling across borders, I guess.


So what do you use for cleaning scapes and cuts? Or for an
injection site? Here a nurse (doctors don't do anything) will wipe down
your arm with a little isopropyl alcohol before giving a shot, and they
used to soak metallic instruments in it (now they autoclave everything -
can't autoclave your arm).

Of course you probably have something better over there. No
donuts? DOH!!!

Hope someone proves me wrong and I can find it here somewhere. To the
dismay of my mealies!


Dish soap, or a window cleaning solution (or both together) work
ok. I suppose you've tried that already. Horticultural oil will work
too. Unless of course you can't buy oil, either. *grin*

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
LittlefrogFarm is open for business - e-mail me for a list of
minicatts and oncidiums )

Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Rob Halgren writes:
injection site? Here a nurse (doctors don't do anything) will wipe
down your arm with a little isopropyl alcohol before giving a shot,

Ethanol or chlorhexidine in Norway.

Geir - with friends who studied medicine while at university. Always a
good thing for a student with little money to spend on parties - and
alcohol is expensive in Norway. A pint of beer in a bar will set you
back about $7, a bottle of wine from $30 and up, a drink with 4cl of
spirits something on the order of $11.

Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Rob Halgren writes:
Methanol is not produced by yeast in any significant amount, and there
isn't really a mechanism for it being created when you distill ethanol
out of a fermented beverage. At least not at temperatures you are

This can't be right. There is methanol (and heavier alcohols) in even
the finest Cognac. According to the head salesguy at Leopold Gourmel
they run their processes past the stage where you start to get
impurities in the end result on purpose because that is where the
flavour comes from. And the headache, people tell me. :)

Geir

Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Geir Harris Hedemark wrote:

Rob Halgren writes:


Methanol is not produced by yeast in any significant amount, and there
isn't really a mechanism for it being created when you distill ethanol
out of a fermented beverage. At least not at temperatures you are



This can't be right. There is methanol (and heavier alcohols) in even
the finest Cognac. According to the head salesguy at Leopold Gourmel
they run their processes past the stage where you start to get
impurities in the end result on purpose because that is where the
flavour comes from. And the headache, people tell me. :)



Of course there is a little methanol. But not a lot, and probably
not enough to kill somebody even if you tried pretty hard to distill it
out of a fermented mash. Of course you could heat the tar (literally)
out of it, and get all sorts of things. I think beer yeast makes some
of the higher weight alcohols as well, which certainly contribute flavor
to the end product. That is why my homebrewed beer is better than the
mega-mart kind, I use better yeast and feed it better food. I'm just
starting to figure out how to grow wine yeasts, although i make a wicked
cider *grin*

I do know that no matter how badly you screw up a batch of beer, you
won't get methanol poisoning. Actually you won't get poisoned
regardless, if it was really dangerous you wouldn't be able to stand the
smell, much less drink it. Yeast just doesn't make methanol in
significant quantities. It wouldn't take much to make a difference
though, if you were concentrating it. I'd bet that some of the methanol
and heavier alcohols in a brandy or other wine based spirit may be
coming out of the base material (the grape, the oak barrel maybe?). And
heat (distilling) plus an interesting chemical mix in the presence of
acids (which is what wine is) may lead to some further organic
chemistry. It might not be the yeast at all. I bet somebody has spent
an entire career studying this kind of chemistry. If not, somebody should.

I'm not a physician. Nor do I play one on TV. But was my
understanding (gleaned from numerous primary sources, like the internet!
*grin*) that the headache comes mainly from formaldehyde produced by
your own metabolism of the ethanol in the drink. Methanol would make it
worse, no doubt... Supposedly drinking lots of water will flush some of
that out of your body, but of course alcohol tends to dehydrate you to
begin with, increasing the effective concentration of formaldehyde (and
methanol, and deity knows what else). Doesn't keep me from enjoying a
homebrewed beer, a glass of port, or the occasional spirit, however.
Everything in moderation.


--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
LittlefrogFarm is open for business - e-mail me for a list of
minicatts and oncidiums )

Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

"Rob Halgren" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Reka wrote:

Well,actually, my pharmacist is the first one I asked, and he said he
can't
get it. There are however quite a few things you can't get here that you
can in the States. Matter of culture, I suppose. :-) Did see DONUTS at
the
autostrada rest stop this year. Can't stop unhealthy, good food from
traveling across borders, I guess.


So what do you use for cleaning scapes and cuts? Or for an
injection site? Here a nurse (doctors don't do anything) will wipe down
your arm with a little isopropyl alcohol before giving a shot, and they
used to soak metallic instruments in it (now they autoclave everything -
can't autoclave your arm).

Well, the label on the stuff I use for the kids says "benzalconio cloruro",
if that rings a bell. Benzalcone chloride?

Of course you probably have something better over there. No
donuts? DOH!!!

Nope, no donuts up until now. But we have some other desserts that are out
of this world!

Hope someone proves me wrong and I can find it here somewhere. To the
dismay of my mealies!


Dish soap, or a window cleaning solution (or both together) work
ok. I suppose you've tried that already. Horticultural oil will work
too. Unless of course you can't buy oil, either. *grin*
Nope, we don't wash dishes *or* windows here either. We just replace them
when they're dirty! grin
By horticultural oil, do you mean white oil? In the meantime I have just
mixed up dish soap, water and oil. I am hoping it is as effective as the
alcohol mixture. Spraying every three or four days is a pain in the culo,
however.
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html



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Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Ah... the problem with responding at 5:30 am and before coffee

How about this: smaller = easier to absorb

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Reka" wrote in message ...
Umm, can you say that first part again in English?? :-)
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html

"Ray" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Isopropanol is C3H8O
Ethanol is C2H6O
Methanol CH4O

The smaller the molecule, the easier it is likelier to be for it to enter
the plant tissue. I have
heard of plant toxicity with ethanol, but have seen no evidence of it
myself.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Reka" wrote in message
...
What is the difference between isopropyl and ethyl alcohol? Can I use
ethyl
alcohol in place of isopropyl in an alcohol/soap/water solution for
spraying
pests???



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Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Actually, pretty much all of the isopropanol in the world originates with crude oil...

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Orchidguy" wrote in message
m...
Ethyl is made of grain , where as Isopropyl is made of wood , I think that
is correct ...its been along time scince chemistry in school...
Good Growing
Todd
"Reka" wrote in message
...
What is the difference between isopropyl and ethyl alcohol? Can I use
ethyl
alcohol in place of isopropyl in an alcohol/soap/water solution for
spraying
pests???
Can't seem to find isopropyl in Italy. :-(
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html



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Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

"Ray" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Ah... the problem with responding at 5:30 am and before coffee

How about this: smaller = easier to absorb

Yes, but *which* of the three are smaller and how can I tell that from the
formula?
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html



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Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

By jove Reka, I think I've got it?
How about some ordinary spirits of alcohol, like Gin or Vodka?
You could take a sip or two & have fun getting rid of those pests!
I can picture you now...........At 3pm., one spray on the mealies, one
sip for Reka,
another spray on the bugs & 2 sips for Reka, hic! Repeat until all gone.
Hic!
At 5pm your hubby comes home & you try to tell him about your day?*g*
"Well I think I got rid of those blasted bealie mugs!" Hic!
Reka collapses into her hubby's arms.
--
Cheers Wendy

Remove PETERPAN for email reply

Reka wrote:
What is the difference between isopropyl and ethyl alcohol? Can I
use ethyl alcohol in place of isopropyl in an alcohol/soap/water
solution for spraying pests???
Can't seem to find isopropyl in Italy. :-(

Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

"wendy7" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Gimtc.110$fo5.37@fed1read07...
By jove Reka, I think I've got it?
How about some ordinary spirits of alcohol, like Gin or Vodka?
You could take a sip or two & have fun getting rid of those pests!
I can picture you now...........At 3pm., one spray on the mealies, one
sip for Reka,
another spray on the bugs & 2 sips for Reka, hic! Repeat until all gone.
Hic!
At 5pm your hubby comes home & you try to tell him about your day?*g*
"Well I think I got rid of those blasted bealie mugs!" Hic!
Reka collapses into her hubby's arms.
--
Ooh! He would like that! Then he could take advantage of me!
Wouldn't it work with Merlot? I like wine much better...
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html



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Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Reka wrote:


Ooh! He would like that! Then he could take advantage of me!
Wouldn't it work with Merlot? I like wine much better...


Vinicolors are still popular... Kill two birds with one stone. A
little for the paph, a little for the paph-rat....

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
LittlefrogFarm is open for business - e-mail me for a list of
minicatts and oncidiums )

Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

On Thu, 27 May 2004 14:31:54 +0200, "Reka"
wrote:

Yes, but *which* of the three are smaller and how can I tell that from the
formula?
--

In this case, fewer atoms equals smaller molecule.

Isopropanol is C3H8O - 3 carbon atoms, 8 hydrogen, 1 oxygen
Ethanol is C2H6O - 2 carbon atoms, 6 hydrogen, 1 oxygen
Methanol CH4O - 1 carbon atoms, 4 hydrogen, 1 oxygen

deg

Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Thanks. Chemistry was not my strong point!
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html

"Dewitt" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
On Thu, 27 May 2004 14:31:54 +0200, "Reka"
wrote:

Yes, but *which* of the three are smaller and how can I tell that from
the
formula?
--

In this case, fewer atoms equals smaller molecule.

Isopropanol is C3H8O - 3 carbon atoms, 8 hydrogen, 1 oxygen
Ethanol is C2H6O - 2 carbon atoms, 6 hydrogen, 1 oxygen
Methanol CH4O - 1 carbon atoms, 4 hydrogen, 1 oxygen

deg


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Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

On Wed, 26 May 2004 23:12:14 -0700, Reka wrote
(in article ):

"Rob Halgren" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Reka wrote:

Well,actually, my pharmacist is the first one I asked, and he said he
can't
get it. There are however quite a few things you can't get here that you
can in the States. Matter of culture, I suppose. :-) Did see DONUTS at
the
autostrada rest stop this year. Can't stop unhealthy, good food from
traveling across borders, I guess.


So what do you use for cleaning scapes and cuts? Or for an
injection site? Here a nurse (doctors don't do anything) will wipe down
your arm with a little isopropyl alcohol before giving a shot, and they
used to soak metallic instruments in it (now they autoclave everything -
can't autoclave your arm).

Well, the label on the stuff I use for the kids says "benzalconio cloruro",
if that rings a bell. Benzalcone chloride?

In the US that's Zephiran, or benzalkonium chloride, Reka, a quaternary
ammonium compound which is a microbicide similar to Physan, but not
alcoholic. If you can't find isopropanol, I'd vote for cheap vodka, which is
slightly watered down ethanol.
Tom
Walnut Creek, CA
To reply by e-mail, remove APPENDIX

Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

"tbell" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Reka wrote:

Well, the label on the stuff I use for the kids says "benzalconio
cloruro",
if that rings a bell. Benzalcone chloride?

In the US that's Zephiran, or benzalkonium chloride, Reka, a quaternary
ammonium compound which is a microbicide similar to Physan, but not
alcoholic. If you can't find isopropanol, I'd vote for cheap vodka, which
is
slightly watered down ethanol.

Okay, guys, the party's on! I have to practice spray spitting like the
medicine men do, that way both the plants and I get the benefit!
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html



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Attn chemistry buffs: alcohol
 

Ethyl alcohol (ethanol) is the alcohol found in liquor.
Isopropyl alcohol is most commonly used in sterilizing hand wash.

Ethanol is a very effective sterilising agent, and the two are often
used in the place of the other for this purpose. Each is suitable for
the purpose that you are talking about.

Yes ethanol is a smaller molecule than isopropyl alcohol, but it it
hardly makes any difference - they are both far smaller and able to
penetrate the stomata of your orchid's leaves. Each will tend to draw
water out from the leaves, unless used carefully.

You can buy ethanol in the form of methylated spirits (approx 90%
ethanol), but the other 10 % is a mixture of methanol and pyridine. I'm
not sure how toxic these two would be to your plant's leaves.

Regards,
Andrew.


Reka wrote:
What is the difference between isopropyl and ethyl alcohol? Can I use ethyl
alcohol in place of isopropyl in an alcohol/soap/water solution for spraying
pests???
Can't seem to find isopropyl in Italy. :-(