Last evening I was looking through my June Orchids magazine (my July issue
hasn't come yet...hmpht). I was admiring the FCC awards and was
thinking....

Most of the plants were scored a 90 which was the minimum to get an FCC. A
few were 91 and one was a 94. What are some of the highest points awarded
an FCC/AOS awarded plant?

Good Growing,
Gene

That's interesting Rob.

I'm not a judge or desire to be one but find the whole process very
interesting. I was thinking that if I were asked to score an FCC quality
plant I would probably feel the pressure to keep the score close to 90
because you don't know what is yet to come from the plant and it's progeny.

I also understand the feeding frenzy that occurs when a new exciting plant
like armeniacum shows up for the first times in front of judging teams.

So if an early plant was awarded an FCC of say 94 points and a later one has
better color and larger petals and a bigger pouch, how do the judges score
this new plant? Does it qualify for an FCC?

Gene





"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:

Last evening I was looking through my June Orchids magazine (my July
issue
hasn't come yet...hmpht). I was admiring the FCC awards and was
thinking....

Most of the plants were scored a 90 which was the minimum to get an FCC.
A
few were 91 and one was a 94. What are some of the highest points
awarded
an FCC/AOS awarded plant?

Good Growing,
Gene





I looked once, and I think the highest award I could find was a 97 point
FCC to one of the first (if not the first) Paph. armeniacum shown.
There are three other armeniacums shown around the same time which all
received 96 point FCCs. An example of irrational attraction to color,
they really weren't that good compared to even the ones that were shown
in the months and year after it. But they were canary yellow and bigger
than a tennis ball, so... Anyway, never spend good money for an FCC
armeniacum clone. If you want an awarded one, go for a recent AM. The
only other plant to score 96 points was a simultaneous FCC/CCM (96/91
pts) to Vanda Onomea (a very old cross). That is all according to
Wildcatt, they may have missed a couple.


I've been sitting on judging teams for well over 10 years (as an
observer, student, or judge) and I have never been on one that has
considered an FCC. We've awarded a few at our center. I've been on
several teams that have awarded 90+ CCMs (now CCE), that might be an
easier descision. I think there may be a psychological barrier, in that
if you award an FCC somebody will notice it... If you do it wrong,
somebody will notice that too. That and our 'standard of perfection'
bar is set pretty high. On new hybrids or new species, the lesson of
Paph. armeniacum has sunk in - regardless of how good it is, a team is
unlikely to award it as a high FCC (or even a low one) without seeing
some of the potential for the cross.

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
LittlefrogFarm is open - e-mail me for a list )

Gene Schurg wrote:

That's interesting Rob.

I'm not a judge or desire to be one but find the whole process very
interesting. I was thinking that if I were asked to score an FCC quality
plant I would probably feel the pressure to keep the score close to 90
because you don't know what is yet to come from the plant and it's progeny.



Oh, you might be surprised at what you learn if you sit in on a few
judgings. It isn't nearly as stuffy and academic as most people think,
or at least it isn't in my center. I do it because it is fun, and I
have learned a lot about orchids in the process. I'd recommend trying
it a few times. You can always ask to observe the AOS judging (at your
local show, for example). The judging chair could refuse, but I've
never known that to happen. As an observer, you should refrain from
making any comments about the plants unless asked, but that is about the
only rule. You can always ask questions, and are encouraged to do so.

In our judging center, at least, we don't ask to score for a
specific flower quality award. We discuss the merits (and demerits) of
the plant in comparison to what we know about it. In that process we
may discover that it is 'better' than a previously awarded plant, or
several. Or it may be in a range of expected outcomes for the plant.
After discussion, if one judge on the team nominates a plant for
'scoring', then the chips fall where they may. You need three certified
judges to make a valid team, although the team could be any size larger
than that. The average of the team's scores is used to designate where
on the scale the award is. 75-79 pts = HCC, 80-89 = AM, 90+ FCC. If
the point spread is too great (more than 6 points) and nobody wants to
move, then the plant is sent to another team. This means, effectively,
that several judges on the team could score above 90 points on an
excellent flower, but the average could still be an 89pt AM. Or some
schmo might insist on scoring it at 72 points and force a deadlock. We
tend to be remarkably close in point scores, however.

I also understand the feeding frenzy that occurs when a new exciting plant
like armeniacum shows up for the first times in front of judging teams.



The problem with pretty is that you need a basis to compare it to.
That is part of the three+ years of training that you are supposed to
get as a student judge, but sometimes people get carried away.

So if an early plant was awarded an FCC of say 94 points and a later one has
better color and larger petals and a bigger pouch, how do the judges score
this new plant? Does it qualify for an FCC?


It is eligible to be considered for an FCC. Any plant is eligible
to be considered... Should it get one? That is a matter of some
debate, and different judges may answer that differently. My answer is
that there are 100 points to give and a notion of what an 'ideal' flower
of the type would look like. You can (and should!) use the previously
awarded plants as a guide to the potential of a plant. However, the
ideal flower is a moving target, and after seeing a few dozen or a few
hundred your target gets harder to hit. So I don't see any reason not
to award a plant today with an AM if it is in the 80-89th percentile of
what the 'ideal flower' looks like (in my head...), regardless of what
the FCC clone looks like. The standard may have changed between the
FCC award and the AM award.

Actually, a plant that is not quite as good or equal to the FCC
plant could be awarded. We (I at least) call that a 'lateral award'.
Some people hate lateral awards. I'm pretty conservative about it. I
might consider a lateral award if the plant has some other feature that
makes it desirable, rounder petals but smaller size, better color, etc.
Often absolutely huge flowers have terrible form, that is why size is
only allocated 10 points (although it seems the most important 10
points...). There are many different categories which go into the final
score, and it is rare that any flower would be perfect in all of them.
That is why it is hard to get a high score.

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
LittlefrogFarm is open - e-mail me for a list )

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 12:20:00 -0400, Rob Halgren
wrote:
Often absolutely huge flowers have terrible form, that is why size is
only allocated 10 points (although it seems the most important 10
points...). There are many different categories which go into the final
score, and it is rare that any flower would be perfect in all of them.
That is why it is hard to get a high score.

Rob

One of the other things you will hear during judging is someone
commenting on the OUTSTANDING color of this clone, and someone
else reminding them color is only 10 points.

New things generally get cultural awards as a means of getting a
record rather than quality awards that years later would set us
up for a visit from the 'little men in white-coats' to examine
our heads.

Do visit or take a plant to AOS judging and ask to be allowed to
play mouse in the corner or spider on the wall. Just remember
not a peep out of the mouse and everything you hear stays in the
room. IF you want to work - volunteer to clerk either then or at
a show. It gets you in, informs you, lets you meet some of the
opinion makers, (note I did not say correct) and helps the
judging staff greatly.

SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php