Well it is that time of the year again to try and cross two nice
Phalaenopsis violacea coerulea orchids I have been working with for the last
couple of summers now. The pod parent this summer will be a mericlone of
Joseph Wu's "Joy" from Taiwan I acquired earlier this year. It is blooming
now and looks like this

http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...coer_joy1a.jpg
http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...coer_joy3a.jpg

The coerulea is on the right side. I have included a regular violacea in
the picture on the left just to see/test the standard magenta coloration.

My question to you is this... do you know of any better coerulea
clones/specimens than this? If so, I would like to see the picture or hear
about it.

Mick

Mick,
Here is the best one I know of. It is H. P. Norton's 'Gulfstream Blue'
JC/AOS.
http://www.orchidview.com/images/Pho...%20closeup.jpg

Pretty Cool. I do not know who all has stems of it, but I think Krull Smith
has been working with it.

Pat Brennan


"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
...
Well it is that time of the year again to try and cross two nice
Phalaenopsis violacea coerulea orchids I have been working with for the
last
couple of summers now. The pod parent this summer will be a mericlone of
Joseph Wu's "Joy" from Taiwan I acquired earlier this year. It is
blooming
now and looks like this


http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...coer_joy1a.jpg

http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...coer_joy3a.jpg

The coerulea is on the right side. I have included a regular violacea in
the picture on the left just to see/test the standard magenta coloration.

My question to you is this... do you know of any better coerulea
clones/specimens than this? If so, I would like to see the picture or
hear
about it.

Mick

Mick Fournier wrote:

Well it is that time of the year again to try and cross two nice
Phalaenopsis violacea coerulea orchids I have been working with for the last
couple of summers now. The pod parent this summer will be a mericlone of
Joseph Wu's "Joy" from Taiwan I acquired earlier this year. It is blooming
now and looks like this

http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...coer_joy1a.jpg
http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...coer_joy3a.jpg

The coerulea is on the right side. I have included a regular violacea in
the picture on the left just to see/test the standard magenta coloration.

My question to you is this... do you know of any better coerulea
clones/specimens than this? If so, I would like to see the picture or hear
about it.


It is nice and blue... I (personally) am not that impressed with
the form, at least in comparison the regular violacea pictured. I see a
lot of the regular violacea, not much of the blue form, so my opinion is
worth exactly nothing. I don't know what your goals are, but I'd pay
nice money for a plant combining the form of the regular violacea and
the color of the coerulea.

So, are you going to show us a picture of the pollen parent? I for
one would like to see images of the entire coerulea set, just so I know
what to look for when I see one in person.

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
LittlefrogFarm is open - e-mail me for a list )

Mick,
Here is the best one I know of. It is H. P. Norton's 'Gulfstream Blue'
JC/AOS.
http://www.orchidview.com/images/Pho...%20closeup.jpg

Pretty Cool. I do not know who all has stems of it, but I think Krull Smith
has been working with it.

Pat Brennan


"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
...
Well it is that time of the year again to try and cross two nice
Phalaenopsis violacea coerulea orchids I have been working with for the
last
couple of summers now. The pod parent this summer will be a mericlone of
Joseph Wu's "Joy" from Taiwan I acquired earlier this year. It is
blooming
now and looks like this


http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...coer_joy1a.jpg

http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...coer_joy3a.jpg

The coerulea is on the right side. I have included a regular violacea in
the picture on the left just to see/test the standard magenta coloration.

My question to you is this... do you know of any better coerulea
clones/specimens than this? If so, I would like to see the picture or
hear
about it.

Mick

Agreed. Unfortunately, last time I checked, none were for sale from
Orchidview. They're using them as breeding stock for the next little while.

Cheers,
Xi

Pat Brennan wrote:

Mick,
Here is the best one I know of. It is H. P. Norton's 'Gulfstream Blue'
JC/AOS.
http://www.orchidview.com/images/Pho...%20closeup.jpg

Pretty Cool. I do not know who all has stems of it, but I think Krull Smith
has been working with it.

Pat Brennan


"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
...

Well it is that time of the year again to try and cross two nice
Phalaenopsis violacea coerulea orchids I have been working with for the

last

couple of summers now. The pod parent this summer will be a mericlone of
Joseph Wu's "Joy" from Taiwan I acquired earlier this year. It is

blooming

now and looks like this



http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...coer_joy1a.jpg

http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...coer_joy3a.jpg

The coerulea is on the right side. I have included a regular violacea in
the picture on the left just to see/test the standard magenta coloration.

My question to you is this... do you know of any better coerulea
clones/specimens than this? If so, I would like to see the picture or

hear

about it.

Mick

Rob,

The pollen parent is an older violacea coerulea I first showed on my website
over four years ago:
http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...iolcoer_oh.jpg

Compared to violacea var murtoniana and violacea bellinia the flowers of
these two coerulea parents are indeed slightly smaller... they are violacea
var bowringiana plants and produce a smaller flower with nearly equal length
sepals and petals. The color in the pod parent is a little better
distributed over the entire flower and that is a big plus factor.

Mick
www.OrchidFlask.com

==================================

Pat,

Very interesting. Thanks for the URL.

Mick

Krull-Smith advertised violacea 'Navy Blue' in flask in a recent Orchids
issue. When I ran into them at Redland they said they had a couple of
flasks left, and planned to have plants in a year or so. I want one of
those!

Diana

HP's Phal. violacea ('Gulfstream Blue' JC/AOS x self) is every bit as
beautiful as he claims. He's against meristem of these plants but now offers
a flask of 5-6 selfed seedlings for $150. The blue of Gulfstream Blue is
fantastic. Get one for next year's cross. That's HP Norton at
www.Orchidview.com for those who didn't know.
Gary

"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
...
Well it is that time of the year again to try and cross two nice
Phalaenopsis violacea coerulea orchids I have been working with for the
last
couple of summers now. The pod parent this summer will be a mericlone of
Joseph Wu's "Joy" from Taiwan I acquired earlier this year. It is
blooming
now and looks like this


http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...coer_joy1a.jpg

http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...coer_joy3a.jpg

The coerulea is on the right side. I have included a regular violacea in
the picture on the left just to see/test the standard magenta coloration.

My question to you is this... do you know of any better coerulea
clones/specimens than this? If so, I would like to see the picture or
hear
about it.

Mick

And the site reads that you may not (probably won't) get ones just like
'Gulfstream Blue'. Of course they phrase it that you may get something
better....

K Barrett

"V_coerulea" wrote in message
...
HP's Phal. violacea ('Gulfstream Blue' JC/AOS x self) is every bit as
beautiful as he claims. He's against meristem of these plants but now
offers
a flask of 5-6 selfed seedlings for $150. The blue of Gulfstream Blue is
fantastic. Get one for next year's cross. That's HP Norton at
www.Orchidview.com for those who didn't know.
Gary

"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
...
Well it is that time of the year again to try and cross two nice
Phalaenopsis violacea coerulea orchids I have been working with for the
last
couple of summers now. The pod parent this summer will be a mericlone
of
Joseph Wu's "Joy" from Taiwan I acquired earlier this year. It is
blooming
now and looks like this



http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...a_coer_joy1a.j
pg


http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...a_coer_joy3a.j
pg

The coerulea is on the right side. I have included a regular violacea
in
the picture on the left just to see/test the standard magenta
coloration.

My question to you is this... do you know of any better coerulea
clones/specimens than this? If so, I would like to see the picture or
hear
about it.

Mick

Whenever you do a "selfing," you'll get a variety of characteristics, spread out in a bell-shaped
curve. The majority - the middle, highest point in the curve - will be quite similar to the
original plant, while as you get out into the "tails" of the distribution curve, you will get some
with better features, some with worse.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
..
"K Barrett" wrote in message news:FDvMc.154207$%_6.90600@attbi_s01...
And the site reads that you may not (probably won't) get ones just like
'Gulfstream Blue'. Of course they phrase it that you may get something
better....

K Barrett

"V_coerulea" wrote in message
...
HP's Phal. violacea ('Gulfstream Blue' JC/AOS x self) is every bit as
beautiful as he claims. He's against meristem of these plants but now
offers
a flask of 5-6 selfed seedlings for $150. The blue of Gulfstream Blue is
fantastic. Get one for next year's cross. That's HP Norton at
www.Orchidview.com for those who didn't know.
Gary

"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
...
Well it is that time of the year again to try and cross two nice
Phalaenopsis violacea coerulea orchids I have been working with for the
last
couple of summers now. The pod parent this summer will be a mericlone
of
Joseph Wu's "Joy" from Taiwan I acquired earlier this year. It is
blooming
now and looks like this



http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...a_coer_joy1a.j
pg


http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...a_coer_joy3a.j
pg

The coerulea is on the right side. I have included a regular violacea
in
the picture on the left just to see/test the standard magenta
coloration.

My question to you is this... do you know of any better coerulea
clones/specimens than this? If so, I would like to see the picture or
hear
about it.

Mick

Whenever you do a "selfing," you'll get a variety of characteristics, spread out in a bell-shaped
curve. The majority - the middle, highest point in the curve - will be quite similar to the
original plant, while as you get out into the "tails" of the distribution curve, you will get some
with better features, some with worse.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
..
"K Barrett" wrote in message news:FDvMc.154207$%_6.90600@attbi_s01...
And the site reads that you may not (probably won't) get ones just like
'Gulfstream Blue'. Of course they phrase it that you may get something
better....

K Barrett

"V_coerulea" wrote in message
...
HP's Phal. violacea ('Gulfstream Blue' JC/AOS x self) is every bit as
beautiful as he claims. He's against meristem of these plants but now
offers
a flask of 5-6 selfed seedlings for $150. The blue of Gulfstream Blue is
fantastic. Get one for next year's cross. That's HP Norton at
www.Orchidview.com for those who didn't know.
Gary

"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
...
Well it is that time of the year again to try and cross two nice
Phalaenopsis violacea coerulea orchids I have been working with for the
last
couple of summers now. The pod parent this summer will be a mericlone
of
Joseph Wu's "Joy" from Taiwan I acquired earlier this year. It is
blooming
now and looks like this



http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...a_coer_joy1a.j
pg


http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...a_coer_joy3a.j
pg

The coerulea is on the right side. I have included a regular violacea
in
the picture on the left just to see/test the standard magenta
coloration.

My question to you is this... do you know of any better coerulea
clones/specimens than this? If so, I would like to see the picture or
hear
about it.

Mick

Ray,

If only what you describe was true for phals (I do not have enough
experience to talk about other orchid types). If your normal curve theory
was true, all we would have to do is self our very best plant to be rewarded
with a batch of seedlings of which 50% would be better than the best plant
in the greenhouses. There just would be no need for cloning.

In my experience, selfings tend to lack vigor and need special treatment
just to get them out of the seedling section. When they do bloom, very
rarely do you get a flower that is better then what you started with. Many
a time I have had self flasks or compots which did not produce a single
plant that was any where near as good as the plant that was selfed.

Selfing plays an important role in making stud plants, but in general think
long shot.

Pat


"Ray" wrote in message
...
Whenever you do a "selfing," you'll get a variety of characteristics,
spread out in a bell-shaped
curve. The majority - the middle, highest point in the curve - will be
quite similar to the
original plant, while as you get out into the "tails" of the distribution
curve, you will get some
with better features, some with worse.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
.
"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:FDvMc.154207$%_6.90600@attbi_s01...
And the site reads that you may not (probably won't) get ones just like
'Gulfstream Blue'. Of course they phrase it that you may get something
better....

K Barrett

"V_coerulea" wrote in message
...
HP's Phal. violacea ('Gulfstream Blue' JC/AOS x self) is every bit as
beautiful as he claims. He's against meristem of these plants but now
offers
a flask of 5-6 selfed seedlings for $150. The blue of Gulfstream Blue
is
fantastic. Get one for next year's cross. That's HP Norton at
www.Orchidview.com for those who didn't know.
Gary

"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
...
Well it is that time of the year again to try and cross two nice
Phalaenopsis violacea coerulea orchids I have been working with for
the
last
couple of summers now. The pod parent this summer will be a
mericlone
of
Joseph Wu's "Joy" from Taiwan I acquired earlier this year. It is
blooming
now and looks like this




http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...a_coer_joy1a.j
pg



http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...a_coer_joy3a.j
pg

The coerulea is on the right side. I have included a regular
violacea
in
the picture on the left just to see/test the standard magenta
coloration.

My question to you is this... do you know of any better coerulea
clones/specimens than this? If so, I would like to see the picture
or
hear
about it.

Mick

Ray,

If only what you describe was true for phals (I do not have enough
experience to talk about other orchid types). If your normal curve theory
was true, all we would have to do is self our very best plant to be rewarded
with a batch of seedlings of which 50% would be better than the best plant
in the greenhouses. There just would be no need for cloning.

In my experience, selfings tend to lack vigor and need special treatment
just to get them out of the seedling section. When they do bloom, very
rarely do you get a flower that is better then what you started with. Many
a time I have had self flasks or compots which did not produce a single
plant that was any where near as good as the plant that was selfed.

Selfing plays an important role in making stud plants, but in general think
long shot.

Pat


"Ray" wrote in message
...
Whenever you do a "selfing," you'll get a variety of characteristics,
spread out in a bell-shaped
curve. The majority - the middle, highest point in the curve - will be
quite similar to the
original plant, while as you get out into the "tails" of the distribution
curve, you will get some
with better features, some with worse.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
.
"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:FDvMc.154207$%_6.90600@attbi_s01...
And the site reads that you may not (probably won't) get ones just like
'Gulfstream Blue'. Of course they phrase it that you may get something
better....

K Barrett

"V_coerulea" wrote in message
...
HP's Phal. violacea ('Gulfstream Blue' JC/AOS x self) is every bit as
beautiful as he claims. He's against meristem of these plants but now
offers
a flask of 5-6 selfed seedlings for $150. The blue of Gulfstream Blue
is
fantastic. Get one for next year's cross. That's HP Norton at
www.Orchidview.com for those who didn't know.
Gary

"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
...
Well it is that time of the year again to try and cross two nice
Phalaenopsis violacea coerulea orchids I have been working with for
the
last
couple of summers now. The pod parent this summer will be a
mericlone
of
Joseph Wu's "Joy" from Taiwan I acquired earlier this year. It is
blooming
now and looks like this




http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...a_coer_joy1a.j
pg



http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...a_coer_joy3a.j
pg

The coerulea is on the right side. I have included a regular
violacea
in
the picture on the left just to see/test the standard magenta
coloration.

My question to you is this... do you know of any better coerulea
clones/specimens than this? If so, I would like to see the picture
or
hear
about it.

Mick

I would not doubt a word stated, Pat. I have no first-hand experience with selfing, but what I
described is a _natural_ distribution. I did, however, overgeneralize:

What we have to keep in mind is that in order to get a "superior" plant, it is likely that a bunch
of individual traits must come together. In the genetic distribution I mentioned, each of the
individual traits are more-or-less distributed in a bell-shaped curve, meaning that there are lots
and lots of similar curves. Whether or not the "preferred traits" happen to coincide in a single
plant is probably a bell-shaped distribution as well, meaning that the probability is slim.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
..
"Pat Brennan" wrote in message ...
Ray,

If only what you describe was true for phals (I do not have enough
experience to talk about other orchid types). If your normal curve theory
was true, all we would have to do is self our very best plant to be rewarded
with a batch of seedlings of which 50% would be better than the best plant
in the greenhouses. There just would be no need for cloning.

In my experience, selfings tend to lack vigor and need special treatment
just to get them out of the seedling section. When they do bloom, very
rarely do you get a flower that is better then what you started with. Many
a time I have had self flasks or compots which did not produce a single
plant that was any where near as good as the plant that was selfed.

Selfing plays an important role in making stud plants, but in general think
long shot.

Pat


"Ray" wrote in message
...
Whenever you do a "selfing," you'll get a variety of characteristics,
spread out in a bell-shaped
curve. The majority - the middle, highest point in the curve - will be
quite similar to the
original plant, while as you get out into the "tails" of the distribution
curve, you will get some
with better features, some with worse.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
.
"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:FDvMc.154207$%_6.90600@attbi_s01...
And the site reads that you may not (probably won't) get ones just like
'Gulfstream Blue'. Of course they phrase it that you may get something
better....

K Barrett

"V_coerulea" wrote in message
...
HP's Phal. violacea ('Gulfstream Blue' JC/AOS x self) is every bit as
beautiful as he claims. He's against meristem of these plants but now
offers
a flask of 5-6 selfed seedlings for $150. The blue of Gulfstream Blue
is
fantastic. Get one for next year's cross. That's HP Norton at
www.Orchidview.com for those who didn't know.
Gary

"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
...
Well it is that time of the year again to try and cross two nice
Phalaenopsis violacea coerulea orchids I have been working with for
the
last
couple of summers now. The pod parent this summer will be a
mericlone
of
Joseph Wu's "Joy" from Taiwan I acquired earlier this year. It is
blooming
now and looks like this




http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...a_coer_joy1a.j
pg



http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/f...a_coer_joy3a.j
pg

The coerulea is on the right side. I have included a regular
violacea
in
the picture on the left just to see/test the standard magenta
coloration.

My question to you is this... do you know of any better coerulea
clones/specimens than this? If so, I would like to see the picture
or
hear
about it.

Mick