|
Arias Sentenced
Peruvian grower gets 21 months for smuggling rare orchids
Associated Press MIAMI - A prominent Peruvian orchid grower was sentenced Tuesday to almost two years in federal prison for scheming to smuggle prized tropical lady slipper orchids into the United States. Manuel Arias Silva will spend one year and nine months in prison for shipping internationally protected wild orchids intermingled with nursery-raised flowers to a Texas dealer several times to feed the desires of high-end hobbyists from 1999 to last year. U.S. District Judge Patricia Seitz sentenced Arias to the low end of the federal guidelines on his guilty plea to two counts. He admitted shipping 2,050 orchids, including the endangered Phragmipedium species, worth $45,500 from Peru through Miami to suburban Houston. "Judge Seitz did the best and the fairest she could under the circumstances," said defense attorney Peter Raben. The dealer, George W. Norris of Spring, Texas, also has pleaded guilty and faces sentencing Sept. 2. The investigation was based on a tip about Norris offering endangered species for sale on the Internet. Norris instructed Arias to ship through South Florida because U.S. Department of Agriculture inspectors at Miami International Airport were more lax than their counterparts in Houston, according to papers and e-mails seized in the investigation. Arias, 70, was one of three Peruvian growers with permission to cultivate endangered and newly discovered orchids from recently deforested areas. He apologized in a letter to the judge asking for mercy and noting his "sincere" conservation efforts. The Peruvian lady slippers, known as "phrags" in collecting circles, are considered seriously endangered in the wild and are protected by international treaty. Nursery-raised varieties can be exported with government permits. |
Arias Sentenced
On a positive note, Manuel, as I understand it, is back home and I would
hope it's unlikely that his government will extradite a 70 year old man. On the negative side of this is the fact that our friend George is up against this same judge, and the F&WS won't be happy about Manuel... -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! .. "Diana Kulaga" wrote in message .net... Peruvian grower gets 21 months for smuggling rare orchids Associated Press MIAMI - A prominent Peruvian orchid grower was sentenced Tuesday to almost two years in federal prison for scheming to smuggle prized tropical lady slipper orchids into the United States. Manuel Arias Silva will spend one year and nine months in prison for shipping internationally protected wild orchids intermingled with nursery-raised flowers to a Texas dealer several times to feed the desires of high-end hobbyists from 1999 to last year. U.S. District Judge Patricia Seitz sentenced Arias to the low end of the federal guidelines on his guilty plea to two counts. He admitted shipping 2,050 orchids, including the endangered Phragmipedium species, worth $45,500 from Peru through Miami to suburban Houston. "Judge Seitz did the best and the fairest she could under the circumstances," said defense attorney Peter Raben. The dealer, George W. Norris of Spring, Texas, also has pleaded guilty and faces sentencing Sept. 2. The investigation was based on a tip about Norris offering endangered species for sale on the Internet. Norris instructed Arias to ship through South Florida because U.S. Department of Agriculture inspectors at Miami International Airport were more lax than their counterparts in Houston, according to papers and e-mails seized in the investigation. Arias, 70, was one of three Peruvian growers with permission to cultivate endangered and newly discovered orchids from recently deforested areas. He apologized in a letter to the judge asking for mercy and noting his "sincere" conservation efforts. The Peruvian lady slippers, known as "phrags" in collecting circles, are considered seriously endangered in the wild and are protected by international treaty. Nursery-raised varieties can be exported with government permits. |
Arias Sentenced
On a positive note, Manuel, as I understand it, is back home and I would
hope it's unlikely that his government will extradite a 70 year old man. On the negative side of this is the fact that our friend George is up against this same judge, and the F&WS won't be happy about Manuel... -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! .. "Diana Kulaga" wrote in message .net... Peruvian grower gets 21 months for smuggling rare orchids Associated Press MIAMI - A prominent Peruvian orchid grower was sentenced Tuesday to almost two years in federal prison for scheming to smuggle prized tropical lady slipper orchids into the United States. Manuel Arias Silva will spend one year and nine months in prison for shipping internationally protected wild orchids intermingled with nursery-raised flowers to a Texas dealer several times to feed the desires of high-end hobbyists from 1999 to last year. U.S. District Judge Patricia Seitz sentenced Arias to the low end of the federal guidelines on his guilty plea to two counts. He admitted shipping 2,050 orchids, including the endangered Phragmipedium species, worth $45,500 from Peru through Miami to suburban Houston. "Judge Seitz did the best and the fairest she could under the circumstances," said defense attorney Peter Raben. The dealer, George W. Norris of Spring, Texas, also has pleaded guilty and faces sentencing Sept. 2. The investigation was based on a tip about Norris offering endangered species for sale on the Internet. Norris instructed Arias to ship through South Florida because U.S. Department of Agriculture inspectors at Miami International Airport were more lax than their counterparts in Houston, according to papers and e-mails seized in the investigation. Arias, 70, was one of three Peruvian growers with permission to cultivate endangered and newly discovered orchids from recently deforested areas. He apologized in a letter to the judge asking for mercy and noting his "sincere" conservation efforts. The Peruvian lady slippers, known as "phrags" in collecting circles, are considered seriously endangered in the wild and are protected by international treaty. Nursery-raised varieties can be exported with government permits. |
Arias Sentenced
This is all so sad & I feel bad about George & Manuel.
Bottom line though, is, if you do the crime, you pay the fine. Now the judicial system needs tweeking! I remember reading about Kavorki (sp) & someone else in a feud over the naming of the orchid in question. Supposedly they got fined & a slap on the wrist? Anyone have any more info on this. Cheers Wendy On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 21:26:57 GMT, Diana Kulaga wrote: Peruvian grower gets 21 months for smuggling rare orchids Associated Press MIAMI - A prominent Peruvian orchid grower was sentenced Tuesday to almost two years in federal prison for scheming to smuggle prized tropical lady slipper orchids into the United States. Manuel Arias Silva will spend one year and nine months in prison for shipping internationally protected wild orchids intermingled with nursery-raised flowers to a Texas dealer several times to feed the desires of high-end hobbyists from 1999 to last year. U.S. District Judge Patricia Seitz sentenced Arias to the low end of the federal guidelines on his guilty plea to two counts. He admitted shipping 2,050 orchids, including the endangered Phragmipedium species, worth $45,500 from Peru through Miami to suburban Houston. "Judge Seitz did the best and the fairest she could under the circumstances," said defense attorney Peter Raben. The dealer, George W. Norris of Spring, Texas, also has pleaded guilty and faces sentencing Sept. 2. The investigation was based on a tip about Norris offering endangered species for sale on the Internet. Norris instructed Arias to ship through South Florida because U.S. Department of Agriculture inspectors at Miami International Airport were more lax than their counterparts in Houston, according to papers and e-mails seized in the investigation. Arias, 70, was one of three Peruvian growers with permission to cultivate endangered and newly discovered orchids from recently deforested areas. He apologized in a letter to the judge asking for mercy and noting his "sincere" conservation efforts. The Peruvian lady slippers, known as "phrags" in collecting circles, are considered seriously endangered in the wild and are protected by international treaty. Nursery-raised varieties can be exported with government permits. |
Arias Sentenced
I understod that the Peruvian government gave Arias a new passport the day
after his arrest, when he was out on bail after George posted bail for him.. George put his house up securing bail for Arias. Arias fled the US jurisdiction. Now Arias is in Peru and if he doesn't come back George is out of his house. With friends like these you don't need enemies. K Barrett "Ray" wrote in message ... On a positive note, Manuel, as I understand it, is back home and I would hope it's unlikely that his government will extradite a 70 year old man. On the negative side of this is the fact that our friend George is up against this same judge, and the F&WS won't be happy about Manuel... -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! . "Diana Kulaga" wrote in message .net... Peruvian grower gets 21 months for smuggling rare orchids Associated Press MIAMI - A prominent Peruvian orchid grower was sentenced Tuesday to almost two years in federal prison for scheming to smuggle prized tropical lady slipper orchids into the United States. Manuel Arias Silva will spend one year and nine months in prison for shipping internationally protected wild orchids intermingled with nursery-raised flowers to a Texas dealer several times to feed the desires of high-end hobbyists from 1999 to last year. U.S. District Judge Patricia Seitz sentenced Arias to the low end of the federal guidelines on his guilty plea to two counts. He admitted shipping 2,050 orchids, including the endangered Phragmipedium species, worth $45,500 from Peru through Miami to suburban Houston. "Judge Seitz did the best and the fairest she could under the circumstances," said defense attorney Peter Raben. The dealer, George W. Norris of Spring, Texas, also has pleaded guilty and faces sentencing Sept. 2. The investigation was based on a tip about Norris offering endangered species for sale on the Internet. Norris instructed Arias to ship through South Florida because U.S. Department of Agriculture inspectors at Miami International Airport were more lax than their counterparts in Houston, according to papers and e-mails seized in the investigation. Arias, 70, was one of three Peruvian growers with permission to cultivate endangered and newly discovered orchids from recently deforested areas. He apologized in a letter to the judge asking for mercy and noting his "sincere" conservation efforts. The Peruvian lady slippers, known as "phrags" in collecting circles, are considered seriously endangered in the wild and are protected by international treaty. Nursery-raised varieties can be exported with government permits. |
Arias Sentenced
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 03:27:35 GMT, "K Barrett"
wrote: I understod that the Peruvian government gave Arias a new passport the day after his arrest, when he was out on bail after George posted bail for him.. George put his house up securing bail for Arias. Arias fled the US jurisdiction. Now Arias is in Peru and if he doesn't come back George is out of his house. With friends like these you don't need enemies. K Barrett On OGD they said that as soon as Arias returned home, his family paid his bail so George should still be housed. Of course he may not need it for a while. SuE http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php |
Arias Sentenced
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 03:27:35 GMT, "K Barrett"
wrote: I understod that the Peruvian government gave Arias a new passport the day after his arrest, when he was out on bail after George posted bail for him.. George put his house up securing bail for Arias. Arias fled the US jurisdiction. Now Arias is in Peru and if he doesn't come back George is out of his house. With friends like these you don't need enemies. K Barrett On OGD they said that as soon as Arias returned home, his family paid his bail so George should still be housed. Of course he may not need it for a while. SuE http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php |
Arias Sentenced
wrote in message
om... "Diana Kulaga" wrote in message k.net... Peruvian grower gets 21 months for smuggling rare orchids Associated Press The dealer, George W. Norris of Spring, Texas, also has pleaded guilty and faces sentencing Sept. 2. The investigation was based on a tip about Norris offering endangered species for sale on the Internet. Arias, 70, was one of three Peruvian growers with permission to cultivate endangered and newly discovered orchids from recently deforested areas. He apologized in a letter to the judge asking for mercy and noting his "sincere" conservation efforts. The Peruvian lady slippers, known as "phrags" in collecting circles, are considered seriously endangered in the wild and are protected by international treaty. Nursery-raised varieties can be exported with government permits. Murray, originally from Surrinam, was an officer in the orchid society I belonged to in Alabama. He was so bitter about the loss of habitat, thus the loss of orchids in that area. When the forest is cleared and developed the orchids are gone also. He found no problem with harvesting the rare and protected orchids when faced with eminent destruction of habitat. One concern he had about re-introduction of the plants into other areas was the displaced plants acceptance and adaptation to the new habitat (would the transplanted orchids even survive) and the impact any new arrivals would have in spontaneous hybridation with the original orchids in the new area if they did survive and bloom. In this situation the original orchids would be lost and subsequent orchids effected by the relocation. Don't get me wrong, he and I are against harvesting or even picking the flowers in devoted and protected areas. These would be equivalent to our wildlife refuges, state, and national parks to name a few. The damage original collectors did while harvesting, collection or destruction of entire colonies of species for the purpose of price manipulation to limit availability is a good part of what caused the necessary protections. Now with the loss of habitat the protections should be redefined and expanded in a way that will protect the orchids in/from an area where the habitat has become unviable for their survival. That may make supporting documentation more complicated, name of plant, harvested under permit from specified area, name of permit holder, and date to name a few, if that information is not currently required. Was the "crime" motivated by a sincere desire to get the endangered species into areas where they could possibly be propagated and protected or greed? BTW, this is personal opinion, I won't go on a "field trip" to collect or buy any collected plants. I am a hobbiest would probably kill them anyway, be unable to contribute to the survival or propagation of any of the orchids in question. Naive as I am, I have seen the impact urbanization, herbicides, insecticides, and deforestation have on local areas. The crime was motivated by greed. K Barrett |
Arias Sentenced
wrote in message
om... "Diana Kulaga" wrote in message k.net... Peruvian grower gets 21 months for smuggling rare orchids Associated Press The dealer, George W. Norris of Spring, Texas, also has pleaded guilty and faces sentencing Sept. 2. The investigation was based on a tip about Norris offering endangered species for sale on the Internet. Arias, 70, was one of three Peruvian growers with permission to cultivate endangered and newly discovered orchids from recently deforested areas. He apologized in a letter to the judge asking for mercy and noting his "sincere" conservation efforts. The Peruvian lady slippers, known as "phrags" in collecting circles, are considered seriously endangered in the wild and are protected by international treaty. Nursery-raised varieties can be exported with government permits. Murray, originally from Surrinam, was an officer in the orchid society I belonged to in Alabama. He was so bitter about the loss of habitat, thus the loss of orchids in that area. When the forest is cleared and developed the orchids are gone also. He found no problem with harvesting the rare and protected orchids when faced with eminent destruction of habitat. One concern he had about re-introduction of the plants into other areas was the displaced plants acceptance and adaptation to the new habitat (would the transplanted orchids even survive) and the impact any new arrivals would have in spontaneous hybridation with the original orchids in the new area if they did survive and bloom. In this situation the original orchids would be lost and subsequent orchids effected by the relocation. Don't get me wrong, he and I are against harvesting or even picking the flowers in devoted and protected areas. These would be equivalent to our wildlife refuges, state, and national parks to name a few. The damage original collectors did while harvesting, collection or destruction of entire colonies of species for the purpose of price manipulation to limit availability is a good part of what caused the necessary protections. Now with the loss of habitat the protections should be redefined and expanded in a way that will protect the orchids in/from an area where the habitat has become unviable for their survival. That may make supporting documentation more complicated, name of plant, harvested under permit from specified area, name of permit holder, and date to name a few, if that information is not currently required. Was the "crime" motivated by a sincere desire to get the endangered species into areas where they could possibly be propagated and protected or greed? BTW, this is personal opinion, I won't go on a "field trip" to collect or buy any collected plants. I am a hobbiest would probably kill them anyway, be unable to contribute to the survival or propagation of any of the orchids in question. Naive as I am, I have seen the impact urbanization, herbicides, insecticides, and deforestation have on local areas. The crime was motivated by greed. K Barrett |
Arias Sentenced
Subject: Arias Sentenced
From: "Ray" Date: 7/28/2004 6:18 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: On a positive note, Manuel, as I understand it, is back home and I would hope it's unlikely that his government will extradite a 70 year old man. Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. - theoneflasehaddock |
Arias Sentenced
"K Barrett" wrote in message news:P39Oc.179302$%_6.32062@attbi_s01... The crime was motivated by greed. K Barrett Yup. Diana |
Arias Sentenced
"K Barrett" wrote in message news:P39Oc.179302$%_6.32062@attbi_s01... The crime was motivated by greed. K Barrett Yup. Diana |
Arias Sentenced
Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums,
where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. theoneflasehaddock Fish, It would be prudent to note that Ray's comments were based more on compassion for a 70 year old man than support of his admitted crime, of which none of us approve. Diana |
Arias Sentenced
|
Arias Sentenced
|
Arias Sentenced
That's an idiotic response.
I neither condone or support smuggling, poaching, stripping or anything of the sort. Maybe I'm just feeling sorry for a 70-year old... Jerk. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! .. "theoneflasehaddock" ****off wrote in message ... Subject: Arias Sentenced From: "Ray" Date: 7/28/2004 6:18 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: On a positive note, Manuel, as I understand it, is back home and I would hope it's unlikely that his government will extradite a 70 year old man. Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. - theoneflasehaddock |
Arias Sentenced
Subject: Arias Sentenced
From: "Diana Kulaga" Date: 7/29/2004 5:31 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: .net Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. theoneflasehaddock Fish, It would be prudent to note that Ray's comments were based more on compassion for a 70 year old man than support of his admitted crime, of which none of us approve. Do a google search on Ray's other comments. He was stating before the trial that the man was innocent, and has defended them numerous times. - theoneflasehaddock |
Arias Sentenced
Subject: Arias Sentenced
From: "Diana Kulaga" Date: 7/29/2004 5:31 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: .net Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. theoneflasehaddock Fish, It would be prudent to note that Ray's comments were based more on compassion for a 70 year old man than support of his admitted crime, of which none of us approve. Do a google search on Ray's other comments. He was stating before the trial that the man was innocent, and has defended them numerous times. - theoneflasehaddock |
Arias Sentenced
Subject: Arias Sentenced
From: Dewitt Date: 7/29/2004 5:53 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: On 29 Jul 2004 19:01:58 GMT, uckoff (theoneflasehaddock) wrote: Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. Implied or explicit threats are inappropriate on this group. Ray expressed an opinion, nothing more. For you to take his comment to other forums where he is not a participant in an attempt to "punish" him is childish, but I guess we could expect that based on your email address above. It may be childish. And it was not intended as a threat, as it has already been done. As for "punishing him", I am merely broadcasting his views to a wider audience. I often wonder why so many orchid growers are apologists for the smugglers, and/or customers to them. And, having seen Ray as an apologist for some time, I don't believe he cares about conservation issues. While he has a right not to care, he is a commercial supplier, albeit a small one, and I believe in boycotting suppliers that don't believe in following the laws that protect wild orchids. Calling that childish is your right, but I don't see how anyone can claim to care about plants without caring about protecting them in the wild. - theoneflasehaddock |
Arias Sentenced
Subject: Arias Sentenced
From: Dewitt Date: 7/29/2004 5:53 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: On 29 Jul 2004 19:01:58 GMT, uckoff (theoneflasehaddock) wrote: Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. Implied or explicit threats are inappropriate on this group. Ray expressed an opinion, nothing more. For you to take his comment to other forums where he is not a participant in an attempt to "punish" him is childish, but I guess we could expect that based on your email address above. It may be childish. And it was not intended as a threat, as it has already been done. As for "punishing him", I am merely broadcasting his views to a wider audience. I often wonder why so many orchid growers are apologists for the smugglers, and/or customers to them. And, having seen Ray as an apologist for some time, I don't believe he cares about conservation issues. While he has a right not to care, he is a commercial supplier, albeit a small one, and I believe in boycotting suppliers that don't believe in following the laws that protect wild orchids. Calling that childish is your right, but I don't see how anyone can claim to care about plants without caring about protecting them in the wild. - theoneflasehaddock |
Arias Sentenced
Subject: Arias Sentenced
From: "Ray" Date: 7/29/2004 6:49 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: That's an idiotic response. I neither condone or support smuggling, poaching, stripping or anything of the sort. Maybe I'm just feeling sorry for a 70-year old... Jerk. You don't believe 70 year olds should be forced to follow laws, and you accuse me of an idiotic response? - -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! . "theoneflasehaddock" ****off wrote in message ... Subject: Arias Sentenced From: "Ray" Date: 7/28/2004 6:18 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: On a positive note, Manuel, as I understand it, is back home and I would hope it's unlikely that his government will extradite a 70 year old man. Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. - theoneflasehaddock theoneflasehaddock |
Arias Sentenced
Subject: Arias Sentenced
From: "Ray" Date: 7/29/2004 6:49 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: That's an idiotic response. I neither condone or support smuggling, poaching, stripping or anything of the sort. Maybe I'm just feeling sorry for a 70-year old... Jerk. You don't believe 70 year olds should be forced to follow laws, and you accuse me of an idiotic response? - -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! . "theoneflasehaddock" ****off wrote in message ... Subject: Arias Sentenced From: "Ray" Date: 7/28/2004 6:18 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: On a positive note, Manuel, as I understand it, is back home and I would hope it's unlikely that his government will extradite a 70 year old man. Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. - theoneflasehaddock theoneflasehaddock |
Arias Sentenced
A couple of last comments before I ignore you altogether, troll:
1) I have no problems with 70-year-olds being held to the law. My comment involved that bit of attitude known as "compassion" in a situation in which 21 months is a huge part of what's left of the man's life. That is obviously something you know nothing about. Add to that the physical impact of incarceration, and it multiplies the situation. 2) My understanding from involved individuals (on both sides, I might add) is that there really is no proof that any illegal plants were collected or transferred across borders. The original charges were of conspiracy to do so, but in an effort to avoid lengthy and costly trials, guilty pleas were offered. Have you never heard of that happening before? OK. One last comment: read the last seven letters of your reply address aloud to yourself. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! .. "theoneflasehaddock" ****off wrote in message ... Subject: Arias Sentenced From: "Ray" Date: 7/29/2004 6:49 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: That's an idiotic response. I neither condone or support smuggling, poaching, stripping or anything of the sort. Maybe I'm just feeling sorry for a 70-year old... Jerk. You don't believe 70 year olds should be forced to follow laws, and you accuse me of an idiotic response? - -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! . "theoneflasehaddock" ****off wrote in message ... Subject: Arias Sentenced From: "Ray" Date: 7/28/2004 6:18 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: On a positive note, Manuel, as I understand it, is back home and I would hope it's unlikely that his government will extradite a 70 year old man. Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. - theoneflasehaddock theoneflasehaddock |
Arias Sentenced
A couple of last comments before I ignore you altogether, troll:
1) I have no problems with 70-year-olds being held to the law. My comment involved that bit of attitude known as "compassion" in a situation in which 21 months is a huge part of what's left of the man's life. That is obviously something you know nothing about. Add to that the physical impact of incarceration, and it multiplies the situation. 2) My understanding from involved individuals (on both sides, I might add) is that there really is no proof that any illegal plants were collected or transferred across borders. The original charges were of conspiracy to do so, but in an effort to avoid lengthy and costly trials, guilty pleas were offered. Have you never heard of that happening before? OK. One last comment: read the last seven letters of your reply address aloud to yourself. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! .. "theoneflasehaddock" ****off wrote in message ... Subject: Arias Sentenced From: "Ray" Date: 7/29/2004 6:49 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: That's an idiotic response. I neither condone or support smuggling, poaching, stripping or anything of the sort. Maybe I'm just feeling sorry for a 70-year old... Jerk. You don't believe 70 year olds should be forced to follow laws, and you accuse me of an idiotic response? - -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! . "theoneflasehaddock" ****off wrote in message ... Subject: Arias Sentenced From: "Ray" Date: 7/28/2004 6:18 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: On a positive note, Manuel, as I understand it, is back home and I would hope it's unlikely that his government will extradite a 70 year old man. Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. - theoneflasehaddock theoneflasehaddock |
Arias Sentenced
"theoneflasehaddock" ****off wrote in message ... Subject: Arias Sentenced From: "Diana Kulaga" Date: 7/29/2004 5:31 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: .net Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. theoneflasehaddock Fish, It would be prudent to note that Ray's comments were based more on compassion for a 70 year old man than support of his admitted crime, of which none of us approve. Do a google search on Ray's other comments. He was stating before the trial that the man was innocent, and has defended them numerous times. - theoneflasehaddock Fish, In this country (the US of A), individuals are generally presumed innocent until the opposite is proven, with the exception of those who declare war against us. Is that too complex a concept? I'm afraid your crusade against Ray is going nowhere, my friend. Knock it off. Diana |
Arias Sentenced
"theoneflasehaddock" ****off wrote in message ... Subject: Arias Sentenced From: "Diana Kulaga" Date: 7/29/2004 5:31 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: .net Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. theoneflasehaddock Fish, It would be prudent to note that Ray's comments were based more on compassion for a 70 year old man than support of his admitted crime, of which none of us approve. Do a google search on Ray's other comments. He was stating before the trial that the man was innocent, and has defended them numerous times. - theoneflasehaddock Fish, In this country (the US of A), individuals are generally presumed innocent until the opposite is proven, with the exception of those who declare war against us. Is that too complex a concept? I'm afraid your crusade against Ray is going nowhere, my friend. Knock it off. Diana |
Arias Sentenced
On 30 Jul 2004 20:02:34 GMT, uckoff
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote: It may be childish. And it was not intended as a threat, as it has already been done. As for "punishing him", I am merely broadcasting his views to a wider audience. theoneflasehaddock You have "Broadcast" all of us to a wider audience. Which is also Illegal - Not that you understand the concept of Legality. SuE http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php |
Arias Sentenced
On 30 Jul 2004 20:02:34 GMT, uckoff
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote: It may be childish. And it was not intended as a threat, as it has already been done. As for "punishing him", I am merely broadcasting his views to a wider audience. theoneflasehaddock You have "Broadcast" all of us to a wider audience. Which is also Illegal - Not that you understand the concept of Legality. SuE http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php |
He did plead guilty so the innocent part kind of fall the vagon now don't
it. Mattias "Diana Kulaga" skrev i meddelandet ink.net... "theoneflasehaddock" ****off wrote in message ... Subject: Arias Sentenced From: "Diana Kulaga" Date: 7/29/2004 5:31 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: .net Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. theoneflasehaddock Fish, It would be prudent to note that Ray's comments were based more on compassion for a 70 year old man than support of his admitted crime, of which none of us approve. Do a google search on Ray's other comments. He was stating before the trial that the man was innocent, and has defended them numerous times. - theoneflasehaddock Fish, In this country (the US of A), individuals are generally presumed innocent until the opposite is proven, with the exception of those who declare war against us. Is that too complex a concept? I'm afraid your crusade against Ray is going nowhere, my friend. Knock it off. Diana |
He did plead guilty so the innocent part kind of fall the vagon now don't
it. Mattias "Diana Kulaga" skrev i meddelandet ink.net... "theoneflasehaddock" ****off wrote in message ... Subject: Arias Sentenced From: "Diana Kulaga" Date: 7/29/2004 5:31 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: .net Your support of orchid smuggling is going to be mentioned on other forums, where conservation is more of an issue. I hope you don't mind. theoneflasehaddock Fish, It would be prudent to note that Ray's comments were based more on compassion for a 70 year old man than support of his admitted crime, of which none of us approve. Do a google search on Ray's other comments. He was stating before the trial that the man was innocent, and has defended them numerous times. - theoneflasehaddock Fish, In this country (the US of A), individuals are generally presumed innocent until the opposite is proven, with the exception of those who declare war against us. Is that too complex a concept? I'm afraid your crusade against Ray is going nowhere, my friend. Knock it off. Diana |
Susan how do you mean illegal.
Mattias "Susan Erickson" skrev i meddelandet ... On 30 Jul 2004 20:02:34 GMT, uckoff (theoneflasehaddock) wrote: It may be childish. And it was not intended as a threat, as it has already been done. As for "punishing him", I am merely broadcasting his views to a wider audience. theoneflasehaddock You have "Broadcast" all of us to a wider audience. Which is also Illegal - Not that you understand the concept of Legality. SuE http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php |
And even if for the sake of argument greed was not a faktor in the crime you
gott to go through proper chanels. The end don't justifies the means. in my view. Mattias "Diana Kulaga" skrev i meddelandet ink.net... "K Barrett" wrote in message news:P39Oc.179302$%_6.32062@attbi_s01... The crime was motivated by greed. K Barrett Yup. Diana |
And even if for the sake of argument greed was not a faktor in the crime you
gott to go through proper chanels. The end don't justifies the means. in my view. Mattias "Diana Kulaga" skrev i meddelandet ink.net... "K Barrett" wrote in message news:P39Oc.179302$%_6.32062@attbi_s01... The crime was motivated by greed. K Barrett Yup. Diana |
Mattias.
**** on all import/export/smuggling laws governing orchids. Mick |
Mattias.
**** on all import/export/smuggling laws governing orchids. Mick |
Mick Fournier wrote:
Mattias. **** on all import/export/smuggling laws governing orchids. Mick AMEN! |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:11 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
GardenBanter