Kathy,

I suspect it's the light color and relative ease of removal that makes
critter observation "easier"...

Personally, I don't like the idea - too risky. Granted, the Taiwanese
orchid nurseries are kept meticulously clean, but neither they nor the
shipping containers are hermetically sealed, so the risk is still there.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
..
"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:lQ1Yc.84402$mD.61372@attbi_s02...
Really? Easier to see in sphagnum? I wouldn't think so, but hey. What
do
I know?

K Barrett

"Ray" wrote in message
...
Kathy,

If I remember some of my earlier reading correctly, the allowance is for
plants in sphagnum only. While that does not rule out the occasional
hitch
hiking bug, it does make them easier to see.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
.
"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:gdWXc.322929$a24.80842@attbi_s03...
Well, apart from the real threat that potting medium will hold bugs -
which
no doubt some sort of critter some day will come in hiding in the bark

It is naive to think you can talk about this subject without politics. And
do not talk to me about strange bed fellows, the current administration is
calling the shots backed by a congress controlled by his party. The head of
the Dept of Ag is a member of the administration's cabinet. Those are
simple facts.

It is also naive to think that allowing the importation of in pot plants
happens in a vacuum. Trade arrangements are made. 'You allow in pot
plants, we back off steel restrictions.' We do not see the deals, just the
results.

As for level playing field, the world is not flat. Government paid
construction costs and training, government sponsored low interest loans,
and tax free periods all put bumps (and mountains) on the field. As most of
these imported plants will be shipped on government owned airlines, it is
not really even a single playing field. I expect moving $2B worth of in pot
orchids means an annual $400M business for the exporting countries'
national airlines. The Dutch have never consider the field level because US
growers do not pay the same taxes on heating oil as charged on diesel fuel.
I have heard the Canadian government subsidizes natural gas for their
growers. It goes on and on.

As for Taiwanese plants, I would not get too attached to them. I expect
Taiwan's reign on the top will be a short one. The Taiwanese government is
not the only government getting into the game. The Chinese government has
also made a commitment to orchids and plants are already starting to flow
out of that pipe line. I recently got an merriclone offering from the main
land which undercut Taiwan prices by a larger percent than Taiwan undercut
domestic prices. Labor in Taiwan is $600 a month while in China it is more
like $100 a month. As for China, they would do best to watch their backs.
Labor in Vietnam is more like $30 a month and I expect they will be playing
a larger role in the game over the next few years. I do not know Thailand's
wage structure, but it seems that they are also about to get in the game in
a big way as well.











"David Edgley" wrote in message
...
For the purposes of this newsgroup, I have no political inclination and
would appreciate others keeping politics out of the discussion.

However, if someone were propose intelligent reform of CITES as it relates
to orchids, I would be sorely tempted to abandon my position.

David

"J. Del Col" wrote in message
m...
(janet_a) wrote in message
. com...
August 24, 2004
Orchids Flourish on Taiwanese Production Line
By KEITH BRADSHER



That's the way capitalism works, folks.

Free trade is the answer to everything; just ask George Bush.


J. Del Col

It is naive to think you can talk about this subject without politics. And
do not talk to me about strange bed fellows, the current administration is
calling the shots backed by a congress controlled by his party. The head of
the Dept of Ag is a member of the administration's cabinet. Those are
simple facts.

It is also naive to think that allowing the importation of in pot plants
happens in a vacuum. Trade arrangements are made. 'You allow in pot
plants, we back off steel restrictions.' We do not see the deals, just the
results.

As for level playing field, the world is not flat. Government paid
construction costs and training, government sponsored low interest loans,
and tax free periods all put bumps (and mountains) on the field. As most of
these imported plants will be shipped on government owned airlines, it is
not really even a single playing field. I expect moving $2B worth of in pot
orchids means an annual $400M business for the exporting countries'
national airlines. The Dutch have never consider the field level because US
growers do not pay the same taxes on heating oil as charged on diesel fuel.
I have heard the Canadian government subsidizes natural gas for their
growers. It goes on and on.

As for Taiwanese plants, I would not get too attached to them. I expect
Taiwan's reign on the top will be a short one. The Taiwanese government is
not the only government getting into the game. The Chinese government has
also made a commitment to orchids and plants are already starting to flow
out of that pipe line. I recently got an merriclone offering from the main
land which undercut Taiwan prices by a larger percent than Taiwan undercut
domestic prices. Labor in Taiwan is $600 a month while in China it is more
like $100 a month. As for China, they would do best to watch their backs.
Labor in Vietnam is more like $30 a month and I expect they will be playing
a larger role in the game over the next few years. I do not know Thailand's
wage structure, but it seems that they are also about to get in the game in
a big way as well.











"David Edgley" wrote in message
...
For the purposes of this newsgroup, I have no political inclination and
would appreciate others keeping politics out of the discussion.

However, if someone were propose intelligent reform of CITES as it relates
to orchids, I would be sorely tempted to abandon my position.

David

"J. Del Col" wrote in message
m...
(janet_a) wrote in message
. com...
August 24, 2004
Orchids Flourish on Taiwanese Production Line
By KEITH BRADSHER



That's the way capitalism works, folks.

Free trade is the answer to everything; just ask George Bush.


J. Del Col

The point about trade not happening in a vaccuum is a good one. I'm sure
something along the lines of mutual rubbing of backs occurred.

I can't see where bringing in already potted plants makes economic sense.
They are so huge and bulky. You get so many more of them in a flask in a
much smaller space, no? Does it really cost so much more to finish them
here?

*G* Well I guess it must, else this wouldn't be happening! LOL!

K Barrett

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
It is naive to think you can talk about this subject without politics.
And
do not talk to me about strange bed fellows, the current administration is
calling the shots backed by a congress controlled by his party. The head
of
the Dept of Ag is a member of the administration's cabinet. Those are
simple facts.

It is also naive to think that allowing the importation of in pot plants
happens in a vacuum. Trade arrangements are made. 'You allow in pot
plants, we back off steel restrictions.' We do not see the deals, just
the
results.

As for level playing field, the world is not flat. Government paid
construction costs and training, government sponsored low interest loans,
and tax free periods all put bumps (and mountains) on the field. As most
of
these imported plants will be shipped on government owned airlines, it is
not really even a single playing field. I expect moving $2B worth of in
pot
orchids means an annual $400M business for the exporting countries'
national airlines. The Dutch have never consider the field level because
US
growers do not pay the same taxes on heating oil as charged on diesel
fuel.
I have heard the Canadian government subsidizes natural gas for their
growers. It goes on and on.

As for Taiwanese plants, I would not get too attached to them. I expect
Taiwan's reign on the top will be a short one. The Taiwanese government
is
not the only government getting into the game. The Chinese government has
also made a commitment to orchids and plants are already starting to flow
out of that pipe line. I recently got an merriclone offering from the
main
land which undercut Taiwan prices by a larger percent than Taiwan undercut
domestic prices. Labor in Taiwan is $600 a month while in China it is
more
like $100 a month. As for China, they would do best to watch their backs.
Labor in Vietnam is more like $30 a month and I expect they will be
playing
a larger role in the game over the next few years. I do not know
Thailand's
wage structure, but it seems that they are also about to get in the game
in
a big way as well.











"David Edgley" wrote in message
...
For the purposes of this newsgroup, I have no political inclination and
would appreciate others keeping politics out of the discussion.

However, if someone were propose intelligent reform of CITES as it
relates
to orchids, I would be sorely tempted to abandon my position.

David

"J. Del Col" wrote in message
m...
(janet_a) wrote in message
. com...
August 24, 2004
Orchids Flourish on Taiwanese Production Line
By KEITH BRADSHER



That's the way capitalism works, folks.

Free trade is the answer to everything; just ask George Bush.


J. Del Col

The point about trade not happening in a vaccuum is a good one. I'm sure
something along the lines of mutual rubbing of backs occurred.

I can't see where bringing in already potted plants makes economic sense.
They are so huge and bulky. You get so many more of them in a flask in a
much smaller space, no? Does it really cost so much more to finish them
here?

*G* Well I guess it must, else this wouldn't be happening! LOL!

K Barrett

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
It is naive to think you can talk about this subject without politics.
And
do not talk to me about strange bed fellows, the current administration is
calling the shots backed by a congress controlled by his party. The head
of
the Dept of Ag is a member of the administration's cabinet. Those are
simple facts.

It is also naive to think that allowing the importation of in pot plants
happens in a vacuum. Trade arrangements are made. 'You allow in pot
plants, we back off steel restrictions.' We do not see the deals, just
the
results.

As for level playing field, the world is not flat. Government paid
construction costs and training, government sponsored low interest loans,
and tax free periods all put bumps (and mountains) on the field. As most
of
these imported plants will be shipped on government owned airlines, it is
not really even a single playing field. I expect moving $2B worth of in
pot
orchids means an annual $400M business for the exporting countries'
national airlines. The Dutch have never consider the field level because
US
growers do not pay the same taxes on heating oil as charged on diesel
fuel.
I have heard the Canadian government subsidizes natural gas for their
growers. It goes on and on.

As for Taiwanese plants, I would not get too attached to them. I expect
Taiwan's reign on the top will be a short one. The Taiwanese government
is
not the only government getting into the game. The Chinese government has
also made a commitment to orchids and plants are already starting to flow
out of that pipe line. I recently got an merriclone offering from the
main
land which undercut Taiwan prices by a larger percent than Taiwan undercut
domestic prices. Labor in Taiwan is $600 a month while in China it is
more
like $100 a month. As for China, they would do best to watch their backs.
Labor in Vietnam is more like $30 a month and I expect they will be
playing
a larger role in the game over the next few years. I do not know
Thailand's
wage structure, but it seems that they are also about to get in the game
in
a big way as well.











"David Edgley" wrote in message
...
For the purposes of this newsgroup, I have no political inclination and
would appreciate others keeping politics out of the discussion.

However, if someone were propose intelligent reform of CITES as it
relates
to orchids, I would be sorely tempted to abandon my position.

David

"J. Del Col" wrote in message
m...
(janet_a) wrote in message
. com...
August 24, 2004
Orchids Flourish on Taiwanese Production Line
By KEITH BRADSHER



That's the way capitalism works, folks.

Free trade is the answer to everything; just ask George Bush.


J. Del Col

Thanks Jerry

K Barrett

"Clanorchid" wrote in message
...
Hi Group;

Just our long winded 2 cents worth.

I had not heard that Taisuco had built facilities in the US

Yes and here in Fl, we also have several South Korean, one Dutch, one
English,
several Thai, two Venezulean, three Japanese, one Brazilian and several
Taiwanese companies. I'm sure there are several more that we just haven't
found
yet. Most are located in and around Apopoka, FL. (near Orlando) and
Homestead
(Miami). Several have been here over five years, and are now supplying
most of
the Big Box Orchid markets, through their own marketing companies or to
American middle men. Primary products are Phal. hybrids, Oncidium
Alliance,
Cattleya, and Dendrobium hybrids. Last year some of these companies
started
bringing in standard Cymbidiums. The Dutch, Japanese, Venezulean are new
state
of the art. The others are converted from long standing foliage growing
operations.

The above is for Florida, someone from California, Hawaii, and Arizona can
advise about the "new" facilities in those states. We are having enough
trouble
keeping up with the new ones in FL. LOL. All of these facilities have been
in
the USA for many years, the NY Times is evidently just now finding out
about
them.

Interestingly, the Hawaiian Growers are the most upset, but according to
the
2003 USDA Plant survey, Hawaii ranks 18th in potted orchid sales, well
below
Calif (#1) and FL (#2), but the Hawaiian import nearly 50% of the plants
they
use for potted plant sales. So they stand to lose a chunk of their income.

Actually, the orchid hobbyists are not the "force" behind the Orchid
explosion.
It is the floral, interior design businesses and the casual plant buyers
which
are feeding the "orchid craze" (Buy it and Throw it away mentality). The
hobbyist is just the beneficiary of this current fad.

As a sign of the times, two years ago Karen and I were visiting one of the
Korean establishments in Apopka. About ten acres under cover, with no less
than
100K pots in full bloom, with just as many more in bud. Incredible sight.
We
were back several months later, and many of the plants were still there,
albeit
out of bloom. This year, we noticed some of the Phal space had been
turned
over to lucky bamboo, Ti plants, and money trees. Plus the owner was out
on the
plant sale circuit, around Florida, peddling his Phals. (Two spikes 20+
flowers, 2 for $15.00 retail). The "boom" may be off the Phal. market.
IMHO,
the potted dendrobium market is the next to get "depressed", one of the
Japanese FL operations has two locations, with ten and seventeen acres
under
cover, currently producing so many plants, they cannot sell them all.

If I remember some of my earlier reading correctly, the allowance is for
plants in sphagnum only.

Currently orchid plants can be imported bare root, attached to or in tree
fern
fiber, or coconut fiber or husk.

I think the approval, which Taiwan, and now the Dutch, are seeking, covers
"approved growing media" as defined in 7CFR 319.37-8(e)(1) " Approved
growing
media are baked expanded clay pellets, coal cinder, coir, cork, glass
wool,
organic and inorganic fibers, peat, perlite, phenol formaldehyde, plastic
particles, polyethylene, polymer stabilized starch, polystyrene,
polyurethane,
rock wool, sphagnum moss,
ureaformaldehyde, stockosorb superabsorbent polymer, vermiculite, volcanic
rock, or zeolite, or any combination of these media. Growing
media must not have been previously used."
At least their initial petitions and subsequent USDA Final Environmental
Assessment in December, 2003 was for "approved media". The FEA did not
differinate between medias. Actually, I don't think the USDA can
differiate,
because of the previous approval of allowing other genera, such as gloxnia
and
begonias, in pots, with "approved media".


Just the tip of the iceberg

Jerry

a href="http://www.clanorchids.com/"Camp Lot A Noise Tropicals (C. L. A.
N.)/a http://www.clanorchids.com/
Orchid Species, Hybrids, Supplies, Photos and Books
Chat (941) 352-2483 Fax: (941) 351-2483 X 123 Order Only 1-800-351-CITE

Thanks Jerry

K Barrett

"Clanorchid" wrote in message
...
Hi Group;

Just our long winded 2 cents worth.

I had not heard that Taisuco had built facilities in the US

Yes and here in Fl, we also have several South Korean, one Dutch, one
English,
several Thai, two Venezulean, three Japanese, one Brazilian and several
Taiwanese companies. I'm sure there are several more that we just haven't
found
yet. Most are located in and around Apopoka, FL. (near Orlando) and
Homestead
(Miami). Several have been here over five years, and are now supplying
most of
the Big Box Orchid markets, through their own marketing companies or to
American middle men. Primary products are Phal. hybrids, Oncidium
Alliance,
Cattleya, and Dendrobium hybrids. Last year some of these companies
started
bringing in standard Cymbidiums. The Dutch, Japanese, Venezulean are new
state
of the art. The others are converted from long standing foliage growing
operations.

The above is for Florida, someone from California, Hawaii, and Arizona can
advise about the "new" facilities in those states. We are having enough
trouble
keeping up with the new ones in FL. LOL. All of these facilities have been
in
the USA for many years, the NY Times is evidently just now finding out
about
them.

Interestingly, the Hawaiian Growers are the most upset, but according to
the
2003 USDA Plant survey, Hawaii ranks 18th in potted orchid sales, well
below
Calif (#1) and FL (#2), but the Hawaiian import nearly 50% of the plants
they
use for potted plant sales. So they stand to lose a chunk of their income.

Actually, the orchid hobbyists are not the "force" behind the Orchid
explosion.
It is the floral, interior design businesses and the casual plant buyers
which
are feeding the "orchid craze" (Buy it and Throw it away mentality). The
hobbyist is just the beneficiary of this current fad.

As a sign of the times, two years ago Karen and I were visiting one of the
Korean establishments in Apopka. About ten acres under cover, with no less
than
100K pots in full bloom, with just as many more in bud. Incredible sight.
We
were back several months later, and many of the plants were still there,
albeit
out of bloom. This year, we noticed some of the Phal space had been
turned
over to lucky bamboo, Ti plants, and money trees. Plus the owner was out
on the
plant sale circuit, around Florida, peddling his Phals. (Two spikes 20+
flowers, 2 for $15.00 retail). The "boom" may be off the Phal. market.
IMHO,
the potted dendrobium market is the next to get "depressed", one of the
Japanese FL operations has two locations, with ten and seventeen acres
under
cover, currently producing so many plants, they cannot sell them all.

If I remember some of my earlier reading correctly, the allowance is for
plants in sphagnum only.

Currently orchid plants can be imported bare root, attached to or in tree
fern
fiber, or coconut fiber or husk.

I think the approval, which Taiwan, and now the Dutch, are seeking, covers
"approved growing media" as defined in 7CFR 319.37-8(e)(1) " Approved
growing
media are baked expanded clay pellets, coal cinder, coir, cork, glass
wool,
organic and inorganic fibers, peat, perlite, phenol formaldehyde, plastic
particles, polyethylene, polymer stabilized starch, polystyrene,
polyurethane,
rock wool, sphagnum moss,
ureaformaldehyde, stockosorb superabsorbent polymer, vermiculite, volcanic
rock, or zeolite, or any combination of these media. Growing
media must not have been previously used."
At least their initial petitions and subsequent USDA Final Environmental
Assessment in December, 2003 was for "approved media". The FEA did not
differinate between medias. Actually, I don't think the USDA can
differiate,
because of the previous approval of allowing other genera, such as gloxnia
and
begonias, in pots, with "approved media".


Just the tip of the iceberg

Jerry

a href="http://www.clanorchids.com/"Camp Lot A Noise Tropicals (C. L. A.
N.)/a http://www.clanorchids.com/
Orchid Species, Hybrids, Supplies, Photos and Books
Chat (941) 352-2483 Fax: (941) 351-2483 X 123 Order Only 1-800-351-CITE

Thanks Jerry

K Barrett

"Clanorchid" wrote in message
...
Hi Group;

Just our long winded 2 cents worth.

I had not heard that Taisuco had built facilities in the US

Yes and here in Fl, we also have several South Korean, one Dutch, one
English,
several Thai, two Venezulean, three Japanese, one Brazilian and several
Taiwanese companies. I'm sure there are several more that we just haven't
found
yet. Most are located in and around Apopoka, FL. (near Orlando) and
Homestead
(Miami). Several have been here over five years, and are now supplying
most of
the Big Box Orchid markets, through their own marketing companies or to
American middle men. Primary products are Phal. hybrids, Oncidium
Alliance,
Cattleya, and Dendrobium hybrids. Last year some of these companies
started
bringing in standard Cymbidiums. The Dutch, Japanese, Venezulean are new
state
of the art. The others are converted from long standing foliage growing
operations.

The above is for Florida, someone from California, Hawaii, and Arizona can
advise about the "new" facilities in those states. We are having enough
trouble
keeping up with the new ones in FL. LOL. All of these facilities have been
in
the USA for many years, the NY Times is evidently just now finding out
about
them.

Interestingly, the Hawaiian Growers are the most upset, but according to
the
2003 USDA Plant survey, Hawaii ranks 18th in potted orchid sales, well
below
Calif (#1) and FL (#2), but the Hawaiian import nearly 50% of the plants
they
use for potted plant sales. So they stand to lose a chunk of their income.

Actually, the orchid hobbyists are not the "force" behind the Orchid
explosion.
It is the floral, interior design businesses and the casual plant buyers
which
are feeding the "orchid craze" (Buy it and Throw it away mentality). The
hobbyist is just the beneficiary of this current fad.

As a sign of the times, two years ago Karen and I were visiting one of the
Korean establishments in Apopka. About ten acres under cover, with no less
than
100K pots in full bloom, with just as many more in bud. Incredible sight.
We
were back several months later, and many of the plants were still there,
albeit
out of bloom. This year, we noticed some of the Phal space had been
turned
over to lucky bamboo, Ti plants, and money trees. Plus the owner was out
on the
plant sale circuit, around Florida, peddling his Phals. (Two spikes 20+
flowers, 2 for $15.00 retail). The "boom" may be off the Phal. market.
IMHO,
the potted dendrobium market is the next to get "depressed", one of the
Japanese FL operations has two locations, with ten and seventeen acres
under
cover, currently producing so many plants, they cannot sell them all.

If I remember some of my earlier reading correctly, the allowance is for
plants in sphagnum only.

Currently orchid plants can be imported bare root, attached to or in tree
fern
fiber, or coconut fiber or husk.

I think the approval, which Taiwan, and now the Dutch, are seeking, covers
"approved growing media" as defined in 7CFR 319.37-8(e)(1) " Approved
growing
media are baked expanded clay pellets, coal cinder, coir, cork, glass
wool,
organic and inorganic fibers, peat, perlite, phenol formaldehyde, plastic
particles, polyethylene, polymer stabilized starch, polystyrene,
polyurethane,
rock wool, sphagnum moss,
ureaformaldehyde, stockosorb superabsorbent polymer, vermiculite, volcanic
rock, or zeolite, or any combination of these media. Growing
media must not have been previously used."
At least their initial petitions and subsequent USDA Final Environmental
Assessment in December, 2003 was for "approved media". The FEA did not
differinate between medias. Actually, I don't think the USDA can
differiate,
because of the previous approval of allowing other genera, such as gloxnia
and
begonias, in pots, with "approved media".


Just the tip of the iceberg

Jerry

a href="http://www.clanorchids.com/"Camp Lot A Noise Tropicals (C. L. A.
N.)/a http://www.clanorchids.com/
Orchid Species, Hybrids, Supplies, Photos and Books
Chat (941) 352-2483 Fax: (941) 351-2483 X 123 Order Only 1-800-351-CITE

I brought back a couple of hundred phals last fall in spike on the plane from Taiwan with me, not much luggage, no bugs and have done well.

Hi Group,

Just another observation, the NY Times article indicates change is being
considered. Actually, the change is effective and in place, since June 6, 2004.


I can't see where bringing in already potted plants makes economic sense.
They are so huge and bulky. You get so many more of them in a flask in a
much smaller space, no? Does it really cost so much more to finish them
here?

I wouldn't mind having plants imported bare root and potted up here.

That was the method. All imported orchid plants were brought in bare root,
repotted in approved media, and grown in US of A for four months prior to sale,
then inspected. (Except for importations in coconut chips or coir, and attached
to tree fern) It is a time and money factor.

Import an in bloom plant and you save labor (unpotting and repotting),
greenhouse space (in front door, out the back door to the contract stores). The
four month in US of A growing period and inspection also disappears, as well as
losses due to cultural problems.

A flask, yes has many plants, but growing time is required. IMHO, the plus is
the plants, from the flasks, may adapt better to US of A conditions, than a
blooming plant.

This not new Q37, as the rules are commonly known, has been under attack for
many years. Currently there are a number genera of plants, for which Q37 has
been suspended. Quick to mind is Begonias, African Violets, Peperomia, some
ferns. There are others, but I forget them now. The authority for some of these
exemptions dates back to 1990, or earlier. Heck the exemption petition from
Taiwan was in 1997.

The USDA documents regarding Q37 being suspended are interesting. Dating back
to 1998, USDA indicates there are 41 Phal growers in CA, 41 Phal growers in FL,
and 101 Phal growers in the other 48 states, and economic impact on these
growers is unknown, but expected to substantial. However, they do note that
Hawaii is the leading importer of bare root Phals, for potted plant sales.

For some reason the Phal Q37 pages on USDA and APHIS websites have gone down
today. Orchidists must be getting interested.

Cheers,

Jerry and Karen

Camp Lot A Noise Tropicals (C. L. A. N.) http://www.clanorchids.com
Orchid Species, Hybrids, Supplies, Photos and Books
Chat (941) 352-2483 Fax: (941) 351-2483 X 123 Order Only 1-800-351-CITE

Wow!! Much here to ruminate on... Thanks for posting and if i don't reply
immediately tis because I'm still thinking.

K Barrett

"Clanorchid" wrote in message
...
Hi Group,

Just another observation, the NY Times article indicates change is being
considered. Actually, the change is effective and in place, since June 6,
2004.


I can't see where bringing in already potted plants makes economic sense.
They are so huge and bulky. You get so many more of them in a flask in a
much smaller space, no? Does it really cost so much more to finish them
here?

I wouldn't mind having plants imported bare root and potted up here.

That was the method. All imported orchid plants were brought in bare root,
repotted in approved media, and grown in US of A for four months prior to
sale,
then inspected. (Except for importations in coconut chips or coir, and
attached
to tree fern) It is a time and money factor.

Import an in bloom plant and you save labor (unpotting and repotting),
greenhouse space (in front door, out the back door to the contract
stores). The
four month in US of A growing period and inspection also disappears, as
well as
losses due to cultural problems.

A flask, yes has many plants, but growing time is required. IMHO, the plus
is
the plants, from the flasks, may adapt better to US of A conditions, than
a
blooming plant.

This not new Q37, as the rules are commonly known, has been under attack
for
many years. Currently there are a number genera of plants, for which Q37
has
been suspended. Quick to mind is Begonias, African Violets, Peperomia,
some
ferns. There are others, but I forget them now. The authority for some of
these
exemptions dates back to 1990, or earlier. Heck the exemption petition
from
Taiwan was in 1997.

The USDA documents regarding Q37 being suspended are interesting. Dating
back
to 1998, USDA indicates there are 41 Phal growers in CA, 41 Phal growers
in FL,
and 101 Phal growers in the other 48 states, and economic impact on these
growers is unknown, but expected to substantial. However, they do note
that
Hawaii is the leading importer of bare root Phals, for potted plant sales.

For some reason the Phal Q37 pages on USDA and APHIS websites have gone
down
today. Orchidists must be getting interested.

Cheers,

Jerry and Karen

Camp Lot A Noise Tropicals (C. L. A. N.) http://www.clanorchids.com
Orchid Species, Hybrids, Supplies, Photos and Books
Chat (941) 352-2483 Fax: (941) 351-2483 X 123 Order Only 1-800-351-CITE

Hi Group;

It's been a long time but since when did this requirement go into effect. We
used to just bring the plants in bare root they would go through USDA
Inspection at their entry point, usually NY, and then were sent on their
merry
way to us. No four month quarantine.

There is no four month quarantine. The article refers to the Phals' re
establishment period, after repotting in the US of A, usually 6 to 8 months.
Actual FL average is usually four months. Believe that refers to the USDA and
State plant inspection cycles, which has the inspector coming every ninety
days. Need the inspection certificate to move the plants in interstate or
intrastate commerce. With elimination of Q37 for Phals., the inspection
certificate could be issued on landing, no grow out period. As is now done for
Phals, Cats, Dends, etc, landing in coconut or tree fern. The Taiwanese seem to
dislike coconut, but the Thais love it, just check at HD or Lowes.

Since 1983 (date of our commercial import permits) for us, the inspectors show
up like clock work. Recently, he got here two days after the shipment arrived.
In FL, the state inspectors automatically get a copy of all commercial orchid
shipment manifests from USDA, MM. Casual walk throughs or small hand carried
luggage are seldom noted, even though USDA and FWS have confiscatory powers,
under CITES.

Well, Bye. Got to batten down. Charley missed us by 30 miles, but looks like
Frances is going to get us from behind. Good Luck Diana and Frank, Mick, and
all other FL RGOers, hope to see all of you back here after the 'blow.

Jerry and Karen

Camp Lot A Noise Tropicals (C. L. A. N.) http://www.clanorchids.com
Orchid Species, Hybrids, Supplies, Photos and Books
Chat (941) 352-2483 Fax: (941) 351-2483 X 123 Order Only 1-800-351-CITE