Hi all,

About 5 months ago I purchased an out of bloom phal at a local nursery on
the cheap. It was in good shape with two spikes. I cut the two spikes just
above the first node to attempt a rebloom and instead both spikes have
produced keikis (sp?). How should I go about caring for these and what
should I be looking for in the near future to have two offspring from this
parent? I have a picture in a.b.p.orchids titled 'phal keiki' for those
that care to take a look.

Also, if you have an opportunity to look at the plant, one of the leaves
from the newest growth has curved over to the point you can only see the
underside of the leaf. Is this ok or should I try to keep the leaf topside
up with a small stake?

thanks tremendously for any help or advice,

Sean

I'm not too experienced, but I've read that with keikis, you should wait
until the roots are 3-4 inches long in total, and then you can just cut
off the portion of the spike that contains the node from whence it came.
Treat it then like you would any phal seedling.

Cheers,
Xi

Sean wrote:
Hi all,

About 5 months ago I purchased an out of bloom phal at a local nursery on
the cheap. It was in good shape with two spikes. I cut the two spikes just
above the first node to attempt a rebloom and instead both spikes have
produced keikis (sp?). How should I go about caring for these and what
should I be looking for in the near future to have two offspring from this
parent? I have a picture in a.b.p.orchids titled 'phal keiki' for those
that care to take a look.

Also, if you have an opportunity to look at the plant, one of the leaves
from the newest growth has curved over to the point you can only see the
underside of the leaf. Is this ok or should I try to keep the leaf topside
up with a small stake?

thanks tremendously for any help or advice,

Sean

Sean, was the Phal yellow? Yellow Phals often rebloom on the same spikes, and should therefore not be cut off. If it was yellow,
this is most likely the reason for the keikis. Something to keep in mind for the future.
Xi is right, let the keikis develop about 3-4 total inches of roots, then they can be twisted or cut off and potted up.
As to the leaf, I have no experience, but you could try to gently flop it back over and tie it down, IMHO. Maybe it will straighten
up and fly right!

Good growing,
Reka
"Sean" schrieb im Newsbeitrag link.net...
Hi all,

About 5 months ago I purchased an out of bloom phal at a local nursery on
the cheap. It was in good shape with two spikes. I cut the two spikes just
above the first node to attempt a rebloom and instead both spikes have
produced keikis (sp?). How should I go about caring for these and what
should I be looking for in the near future to have two offspring from this
parent? I have a picture in a.b.p.orchids titled 'phal keiki' for those
that care to take a look.

Also, if you have an opportunity to look at the plant, one of the leaves
from the newest growth has curved over to the point you can only see the
underside of the leaf. Is this ok or should I try to keep the leaf topside
up with a small stake?

thanks tremendously for any help or advice,

Sean




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Sean,
Congratulations on the beautiful mother plant and keikis. I looked at the
photo on abpo, and they look very healthy. :-) As already stated by the
others, wait until the keiki roots are long enough before separating the
keikis -- this may take a long time, so be patient. In my experience the
nice thing about keikis is that they tend to get to blooming size much
faster than seedlings, and so then you will have 3 plants instead of one,
and if you want you will have something to give as a present to friends or
to exchange for plants from others. I decided to keep my keiki plant though
out of sentimental reasons, it being the only plant that I have watched grow
from the very beginning, and all that.

As for the leaf that's upside down. Some of my Phals also have a leaf like
that. I have one time successfully persuaded a leaf to no longer flop by
staking it down. But most of the time I just leave them alone. As far as I
can tell the plants don't mind the flopped leaves. And so the main reason to
try to un-flop your leaf would be the human sense of aesthetics, I believe
(someone correct me if I am wrong please). The plants with flopped leaves
are continuing to grow healthily. I suspect that the flopping of the leaves
may be due to the plant trying to optimally direct all leaves in relation to
the light, but also young leaves that are not yet sturdy enough to hold
their own weight will flop over.

Best,
Joanna


"Sean" wrote in message
link.net...
Hi all,

About 5 months ago I purchased an out of bloom phal at a local nursery on
the cheap. It was in good shape with two spikes. I cut the two spikes
just
above the first node to attempt a rebloom and instead both spikes have
produced keikis (sp?). How should I go about caring for these and what
should I be looking for in the near future to have two offspring from this
parent? I have a picture in a.b.p.orchids titled 'phal keiki' for those
that care to take a look.

Also, if you have an opportunity to look at the plant, one of the leaves
from the newest growth has curved over to the point you can only see the
underside of the leaf. Is this ok or should I try to keep the leaf
topside
up with a small stake?

thanks tremendously for any help or advice,

Sean

As Reka and Xi answered the "what to do with the keiki" part, I'll skip
that.

While the background species can affect the formation of keikis, as Reka
mentioned, culture can sometimes play a role, as the formation of keikis can
be a "survival" mechanism for the plant if it is somehow stressed.

The photo of the plant shows it to have quite lush foliage that is a bright
green in color. If that is not simply a remnant of the photo and its
appearance on my monitor, it may suggest that you have been overdoing the
nitrogen and the plant may be malnourished - stressing the plant into the
formation of keikis and pretty much guaranteeing that the thing won't bloom.

If you can provide details, we can see if my guess has any validity!

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
..
"Sean" wrote in message
link.net...
Hi all,

About 5 months ago I purchased an out of bloom phal at a local nursery on
the cheap. It was in good shape with two spikes. I cut the two spikes
just
above the first node to attempt a rebloom and instead both spikes have
produced keikis (sp?). How should I go about caring for these and what
should I be looking for in the near future to have two offspring from this
parent? I have a picture in a.b.p.orchids titled 'phal keiki' for those
that care to take a look.

Also, if you have an opportunity to look at the plant, one of the leaves
from the newest growth has curved over to the point you can only see the
underside of the leaf. Is this ok or should I try to keep the leaf
topside
up with a small stake?

thanks tremendously for any help or advice,

Sean

As Reka and Xi answered the "what to do with the keiki" part, I'll skip
that.

While the background species can affect the formation of keikis, as Reka
mentioned, culture can sometimes play a role, as the formation of keikis can
be a "survival" mechanism for the plant if it is somehow stressed.

The photo of the plant shows it to have quite lush foliage that is a bright
green in color. If that is not simply a remnant of the photo and its
appearance on my monitor, it may suggest that you have been overdoing the
nitrogen and the plant may be malnourished - stressing the plant into the
formation of keikis and pretty much guaranteeing that the thing won't bloom.

If you can provide details, we can see if my guess has any validity!

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
..
"Sean" wrote in message
link.net...
Hi all,

About 5 months ago I purchased an out of bloom phal at a local nursery on
the cheap. It was in good shape with two spikes. I cut the two spikes
just
above the first node to attempt a rebloom and instead both spikes have
produced keikis (sp?). How should I go about caring for these and what
should I be looking for in the near future to have two offspring from this
parent? I have a picture in a.b.p.orchids titled 'phal keiki' for those
that care to take a look.

Also, if you have an opportunity to look at the plant, one of the leaves
from the newest growth has curved over to the point you can only see the
underside of the leaf. Is this ok or should I try to keep the leaf
topside
up with a small stake?

thanks tremendously for any help or advice,

Sean

Wow...thanks for all of the support!

Ray - The photo was taken in very low-light conditions at night, so
there wasn't any natural light to really do the plant any justice.
The foliage is actually dark green; I only fertilize bi-weekly using a
very diluted mix. When I purchased the plant it had already dropped
it's blooms and there was no indication of what color it was...the
local help didn't know, either.

Ray, I've been reading your comments in the orchid newsgroups for
quite some time and it's a pleasure to hear from you.

Thanks,

Sean


On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:34:30 -0400, "Ray"
wrote:

As Reka and Xi answered the "what to do with the keiki" part, I'll skip
that.

While the background species can affect the formation of keikis, as Reka
mentioned, culture can sometimes play a role, as the formation of keikis can
be a "survival" mechanism for the plant if it is somehow stressed.

The photo of the plant shows it to have quite lush foliage that is a bright
green in color. If that is not simply a remnant of the photo and its
appearance on my monitor, it may suggest that you have been overdoing the
nitrogen and the plant may be malnourished - stressing the plant into the
formation of keikis and pretty much guaranteeing that the thing won't bloom.

If you can provide details, we can see if my guess has any validity!

Wow...thanks for all of the support!

Ray - The photo was taken in very low-light conditions at night, so
there wasn't any natural light to really do the plant any justice.
The foliage is actually dark green; I only fertilize bi-weekly using a
very diluted mix. When I purchased the plant it had already dropped
it's blooms and there was no indication of what color it was...the
local help didn't know, either.

Ray, I've been reading your comments in the orchid newsgroups for
quite some time and it's a pleasure to hear from you.

Thanks,

Sean


On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:34:30 -0400, "Ray"
wrote:

As Reka and Xi answered the "what to do with the keiki" part, I'll skip
that.

While the background species can affect the formation of keikis, as Reka
mentioned, culture can sometimes play a role, as the formation of keikis can
be a "survival" mechanism for the plant if it is somehow stressed.

The photo of the plant shows it to have quite lush foliage that is a bright
green in color. If that is not simply a remnant of the photo and its
appearance on my monitor, it may suggest that you have been overdoing the
nitrogen and the plant may be malnourished - stressing the plant into the
formation of keikis and pretty much guaranteeing that the thing won't bloom.

If you can provide details, we can see if my guess has any validity!

Ray,

You mentioned that Sean's lush bright green leaves look malnurished and that
if this is the case "pretty much guaranteeing that the thing won't bloom".
Is it the combination of "lush" and "bright" green only that is an
indication of malnurishment? I thought that lush and dark green means too
little light, is that correct?

I posted a photo of one of my Phal Noid's leaves on abpo for comparison.
Does this plant look malnurished as well? It's one of my most reliable
bloomers: most recently I can rely on it to rebloom about twice a year. It's
got tons of roots, many of them aerial. But the foliage is lush medium-dark
green. I know that this does not guarantee the thing won't bloom in this
case at least. :-)

I am trying to learn to "read" leaves better. So any feedback on what to
look for and how to interpret are appreciated.

Thanks, Joanna

"Ray" wrote in message
...
The photo of the plant shows it to have quite lush foliage that is a
bright
green in color. If that is not simply a remnant of the photo and its
appearance on my monitor, it may suggest that you have been overdoing the
nitrogen and the plant may be malnourished - stressing the plant into the
formation of keikis and pretty much guaranteeing that the thing won't
bloom.

If you can provide details, we can see if my guess has any validity!

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

What fertilizer are you using?

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
..
"Sean" wrote in message
...
Wow...thanks for all of the support!

Ray - The photo was taken in very low-light conditions at night, so
there wasn't any natural light to really do the plant any justice.
The foliage is actually dark green; I only fertilize bi-weekly using a
very diluted mix. When I purchased the plant it had already dropped
it's blooms and there was no indication of what color it was...the
local help didn't know, either.

Ray, I've been reading your comments in the orchid newsgroups for
quite some time and it's a pleasure to hear from you.

Thanks,

Sean


On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:34:30 -0400, "Ray"
wrote:

As Reka and Xi answered the "what to do with the keiki" part, I'll skip
that.

While the background species can affect the formation of keikis, as Reka
mentioned, culture can sometimes play a role, as the formation of keikis
can
be a "survival" mechanism for the plant if it is somehow stressed.

The photo of the plant shows it to have quite lush foliage that is a
bright
green in color. If that is not simply a remnant of the photo and its
appearance on my monitor, it may suggest that you have been overdoing the
nitrogen and the plant may be malnourished - stressing the plant into the
formation of keikis and pretty much guaranteeing that the thing won't
bloom.

If you can provide details, we can see if my guess has any validity!

The color of phals leaves will vary a bit based upon the species in the
background.

The diagnosis of malnourishment - maybe I should have simply said "too much
nitrogen" which MAY be accompanied by undernourishment of other nutrients
and is often associated with no blooming - comes from seeing lots of leaves
that are BRIGHT green, often having not much structural integrity, so flop
over. Yours doesn't show the slightest indication of that, in my opinion.

Dark green does not necessarily mean too little light, either. In the time
that I have been growing orchids, I had long believed that the maximum light
possible without burning was the best, but it ain't necessecarily so! Some
phals actually bloom much better in deep shade than they do if grown bright.
In that situation, dark green indicates more chlorophyll, densely packed.

I look at it this way: with proper nutrition, a plant will produce the
correct amount of chlorophyll for the lighting conditions. That has limits
of course - in really low light there cannot possibly be enough to keep the
plant happy and healthy, and if too bright, the chlorophyll can actually be
damaged. If the nutrition is not correct, it is possible for the plant to
grow a substantial mechanical structure ("lush growth"), but not be able to
produce the components that go along with it to be truly healthy. I suspect
that the bright green coloration of a nitrogen overdose coupled with
insufficient other nutrients is due in part to the plants inability to "fill
up the available volume" with chlorophyll and other needed components.

A further comment on flopping leaves: in nature, phals tend to live in
trees, with roots ranging all over the bark and with the plants pretty much
hanging out and down. They really aren't built to be grown upright in a
pot, which is of course, how we all do it! Notice that Joanna's plants are
growing out over the side of the pot - a PITA for keeping the pots upright,
and harder to keep on shelves, but probably the most appropriate for pot
culture.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
..
"J Fortuna" wrote in message
news:fzD0d.1085$bj2.90@trnddc08...
Ray,

You mentioned that Sean's lush bright green leaves look malnurished and
that
if this is the case "pretty much guaranteeing that the thing won't bloom".
Is it the combination of "lush" and "bright" green only that is an
indication of malnurishment? I thought that lush and dark green means too
little light, is that correct?

I posted a photo of one of my Phal Noid's leaves on abpo for comparison.
Does this plant look malnurished as well? It's one of my most reliable
bloomers: most recently I can rely on it to rebloom about twice a year.
It's
got tons of roots, many of them aerial. But the foliage is lush
medium-dark
green. I know that this does not guarantee the thing won't bloom in this
case at least. :-)

I am trying to learn to "read" leaves better. So any feedback on what to
look for and how to interpret are appreciated.

Thanks, Joanna

"Ray" wrote in message
...
The photo of the plant shows it to have quite lush foliage that is a
bright
green in color. If that is not simply a remnant of the photo and its
appearance on my monitor, it may suggest that you have been overdoing the
nitrogen and the plant may be malnourished - stressing the plant into the
formation of keikis and pretty much guaranteeing that the thing won't
bloom.

If you can provide details, we can see if my guess has any validity!

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

The color of phals leaves will vary a bit based upon the species in the
background.

The diagnosis of malnourishment - maybe I should have simply said "too much
nitrogen" which MAY be accompanied by undernourishment of other nutrients
and is often associated with no blooming - comes from seeing lots of leaves
that are BRIGHT green, often having not much structural integrity, so flop
over. Yours doesn't show the slightest indication of that, in my opinion.

Dark green does not necessarily mean too little light, either. In the time
that I have been growing orchids, I had long believed that the maximum light
possible without burning was the best, but it ain't necessecarily so! Some
phals actually bloom much better in deep shade than they do if grown bright.
In that situation, dark green indicates more chlorophyll, densely packed.

I look at it this way: with proper nutrition, a plant will produce the
correct amount of chlorophyll for the lighting conditions. That has limits
of course - in really low light there cannot possibly be enough to keep the
plant happy and healthy, and if too bright, the chlorophyll can actually be
damaged. If the nutrition is not correct, it is possible for the plant to
grow a substantial mechanical structure ("lush growth"), but not be able to
produce the components that go along with it to be truly healthy. I suspect
that the bright green coloration of a nitrogen overdose coupled with
insufficient other nutrients is due in part to the plants inability to "fill
up the available volume" with chlorophyll and other needed components.

A further comment on flopping leaves: in nature, phals tend to live in
trees, with roots ranging all over the bark and with the plants pretty much
hanging out and down. They really aren't built to be grown upright in a
pot, which is of course, how we all do it! Notice that Joanna's plants are
growing out over the side of the pot - a PITA for keeping the pots upright,
and harder to keep on shelves, but probably the most appropriate for pot
culture.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
..
"J Fortuna" wrote in message
news:fzD0d.1085$bj2.90@trnddc08...
Ray,

You mentioned that Sean's lush bright green leaves look malnurished and
that
if this is the case "pretty much guaranteeing that the thing won't bloom".
Is it the combination of "lush" and "bright" green only that is an
indication of malnurishment? I thought that lush and dark green means too
little light, is that correct?

I posted a photo of one of my Phal Noid's leaves on abpo for comparison.
Does this plant look malnurished as well? It's one of my most reliable
bloomers: most recently I can rely on it to rebloom about twice a year.
It's
got tons of roots, many of them aerial. But the foliage is lush
medium-dark
green. I know that this does not guarantee the thing won't bloom in this
case at least. :-)

I am trying to learn to "read" leaves better. So any feedback on what to
look for and how to interpret are appreciated.

Thanks, Joanna

"Ray" wrote in message
...
The photo of the plant shows it to have quite lush foliage that is a
bright
green in color. If that is not simply a remnant of the photo and its
appearance on my monitor, it may suggest that you have been overdoing the
nitrogen and the plant may be malnourished - stressing the plant into the
formation of keikis and pretty much guaranteeing that the thing won't
bloom.

If you can provide details, we can see if my guess has any validity!

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

The color of phals leaves will vary a bit based upon the species in the
background.

The diagnosis of malnourishment - maybe I should have simply said "too much
nitrogen" which MAY be accompanied by undernourishment of other nutrients
and is often associated with no blooming - comes from seeing lots of leaves
that are BRIGHT green, often having not much structural integrity, so flop
over. Yours doesn't show the slightest indication of that, in my opinion.

Dark green does not necessarily mean too little light, either. In the time
that I have been growing orchids, I had long believed that the maximum light
possible without burning was the best, but it ain't necessecarily so! Some
phals actually bloom much better in deep shade than they do if grown bright.
In that situation, dark green indicates more chlorophyll, densely packed.

I look at it this way: with proper nutrition, a plant will produce the
correct amount of chlorophyll for the lighting conditions. That has limits
of course - in really low light there cannot possibly be enough to keep the
plant happy and healthy, and if too bright, the chlorophyll can actually be
damaged. If the nutrition is not correct, it is possible for the plant to
grow a substantial mechanical structure ("lush growth"), but not be able to
produce the components that go along with it to be truly healthy. I suspect
that the bright green coloration of a nitrogen overdose coupled with
insufficient other nutrients is due in part to the plants inability to "fill
up the available volume" with chlorophyll and other needed components.

A further comment on flopping leaves: in nature, phals tend to live in
trees, with roots ranging all over the bark and with the plants pretty much
hanging out and down. They really aren't built to be grown upright in a
pot, which is of course, how we all do it! Notice that Joanna's plants are
growing out over the side of the pot - a PITA for keeping the pots upright,
and harder to keep on shelves, but probably the most appropriate for pot
culture.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!
..
"J Fortuna" wrote in message
news:fzD0d.1085$bj2.90@trnddc08...
Ray,

You mentioned that Sean's lush bright green leaves look malnurished and
that
if this is the case "pretty much guaranteeing that the thing won't bloom".
Is it the combination of "lush" and "bright" green only that is an
indication of malnurishment? I thought that lush and dark green means too
little light, is that correct?

I posted a photo of one of my Phal Noid's leaves on abpo for comparison.
Does this plant look malnurished as well? It's one of my most reliable
bloomers: most recently I can rely on it to rebloom about twice a year.
It's
got tons of roots, many of them aerial. But the foliage is lush
medium-dark
green. I know that this does not guarantee the thing won't bloom in this
case at least. :-)

I am trying to learn to "read" leaves better. So any feedback on what to
look for and how to interpret are appreciated.

Thanks, Joanna

"Ray" wrote in message
...
The photo of the plant shows it to have quite lush foliage that is a
bright
green in color. If that is not simply a remnant of the photo and its
appearance on my monitor, it may suggest that you have been overdoing the
nitrogen and the plant may be malnourished - stressing the plant into the
formation of keikis and pretty much guaranteeing that the thing won't
bloom.

If you can provide details, we can see if my guess has any validity!

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

I'm using a 20-10-20.

Sean



On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:05:39 -0400, "Ray"
wrote:

What fertilizer are you using?

I'm using a 20-10-20.

Sean



On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:05:39 -0400, "Ray"
wrote:

What fertilizer are you using?