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Old 16-09-2004, 12:41 AM
J Fortuna
 
Posts: n/a
Default Paph new spike versus new leaf

How can one tell whether a Paph is starting a new spike or growing a new
leaf?

The reason why I am asking is: I mail ordered a Paph malipoense in-spike. It
got delivered today, with a note stating that it is just starting a new
spike in the new growth. It looks like a new leaf to me. But then I
remembered that my very first Paph also looked like it was going to have a
new leaf before I left for vacation, and when I came back it had a new
spike. So I am willing to accept that this _may_ be a new spike even though
it looks like a leaf ... But I would like to know whether there is a way to
know for sure whether this is a spike or just another leaf. Is there
something that I can look for to tell? Is this something that people who
have been around Paphs long enough just know? Or is it an educated guess,
based on the number of leaves for example?

What I would like to know in part is, whether or not I may have been ripped
off, since the plant was sold to me as "in-spike", and I may not have bought
it if it had been listed as "blooming size" but not in spike. I am willing
to give it the benefit of a doubt that it may be in spike, but it really
looks to me like it is just "in-leaf".

Joanna (who can already tell a Phal spike from an aerial root very early on,
but alas still has much more to learn about Paphs)


  #2   Report Post  
Old 16-09-2004, 01:38 AM
TQPL
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Joanna,

If you give it time all will be revealed.
However if you are impatient the following might
help.

Flower buds are generally fatter so they should
feel 'thicker' in the growth.

You might be able to shine a torch behind the
growth and look through the leaves to see the
outline of the flower bud. The pigmentation on
P.malipoense might prove a bit of a problem as
this works better for the strap leafed plants.

Hope this helps.
Hope it is a flower.

Flower bud formation is not simply a factor of the
number of leaves.
With regards
Alan








"J Fortuna" wrote
in message news:ky32d.6786$lX.202@trnddc04...
How can one tell whether a Paph is starting a

new spike or growing a new
leaf?

The reason why I am asking is: I mail ordered a

Paph malipoense in-spike. It
got delivered today, with a note stating that it

is just starting a new
spike in the new growth. It looks like a new

leaf to me. But then I
remembered that my very first Paph also looked

like it was going to have a
new leaf before I left for vacation, and when I

came back it had a new
spike. So I am willing to accept that this _may_

be a new spike even though
it looks like a leaf ... But I would like to

know whether there is a way to
know for sure whether this is a spike or just

another leaf. Is there
something that I can look for to tell? Is this

something that people who
have been around Paphs long enough just know? Or

is it an educated guess,
based on the number of leaves for example?

What I would like to know in part is, whether or

not I may have been ripped
off, since the plant was sold to me as

"in-spike", and I may not have bought
it if it had been listed as "blooming size" but

not in spike. I am willing
to give it the benefit of a doubt that it may be

in spike, but it really
looks to me like it is just "in-leaf".

Joanna (who can already tell a Phal spike from

an aerial root very early on,
but alas still has much more to learn about

Paphs)




  #3   Report Post  
Old 16-09-2004, 01:38 AM
TQPL
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Joanna,

If you give it time all will be revealed.
However if you are impatient the following might
help.

Flower buds are generally fatter so they should
feel 'thicker' in the growth.

You might be able to shine a torch behind the
growth and look through the leaves to see the
outline of the flower bud. The pigmentation on
P.malipoense might prove a bit of a problem as
this works better for the strap leafed plants.

Hope this helps.
Hope it is a flower.

Flower bud formation is not simply a factor of the
number of leaves.
With regards
Alan








"J Fortuna" wrote
in message news:ky32d.6786$lX.202@trnddc04...
How can one tell whether a Paph is starting a

new spike or growing a new
leaf?

The reason why I am asking is: I mail ordered a

Paph malipoense in-spike. It
got delivered today, with a note stating that it

is just starting a new
spike in the new growth. It looks like a new

leaf to me. But then I
remembered that my very first Paph also looked

like it was going to have a
new leaf before I left for vacation, and when I

came back it had a new
spike. So I am willing to accept that this _may_

be a new spike even though
it looks like a leaf ... But I would like to

know whether there is a way to
know for sure whether this is a spike or just

another leaf. Is there
something that I can look for to tell? Is this

something that people who
have been around Paphs long enough just know? Or

is it an educated guess,
based on the number of leaves for example?

What I would like to know in part is, whether or

not I may have been ripped
off, since the plant was sold to me as

"in-spike", and I may not have bought
it if it had been listed as "blooming size" but

not in spike. I am willing
to give it the benefit of a doubt that it may be

in spike, but it really
looks to me like it is just "in-leaf".

Joanna (who can already tell a Phal spike from

an aerial root very early on,
but alas still has much more to learn about

Paphs)




  #4   Report Post  
Old 16-09-2004, 04:18 PM
TRAINMAN9
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What I would like to know in part is, whether or not I may have been ripped
off, since the plant was sold to me as "in-spike",

Did you pay more for the plant? If so and it is not in spike perhaps you might
feel like you were ripped off. If you feel that you did not get what you
expected why not contact the seller and arrange to send the plant back.

I may not have bought
it if it had been listed as "blooming size" but not in spike.


If you wanted this particular species why would you have not purchased it just
because it was not in spike but was of blooming size.

Buying a plant in spike or bud does not guarantee that it will bloom. The buds
and spikes can be damaged in shipping regardless of how well they are packaged.
I don't know of any orchid supplier selling mail order or shipping plants that
would guarantee the blooms on a plant.



  #5   Report Post  
Old 16-09-2004, 04:18 PM
TRAINMAN9
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What I would like to know in part is, whether or not I may have been ripped
off, since the plant was sold to me as "in-spike",

Did you pay more for the plant? If so and it is not in spike perhaps you might
feel like you were ripped off. If you feel that you did not get what you
expected why not contact the seller and arrange to send the plant back.

I may not have bought
it if it had been listed as "blooming size" but not in spike.


If you wanted this particular species why would you have not purchased it just
because it was not in spike but was of blooming size.

Buying a plant in spike or bud does not guarantee that it will bloom. The buds
and spikes can be damaged in shipping regardless of how well they are packaged.
I don't know of any orchid supplier selling mail order or shipping plants that
would guarantee the blooms on a plant.





  #6   Report Post  
Old 17-09-2004, 12:56 AM
J Fortuna
 
Posts: n/a
Default


You know how sometimes one posts a post to a newsgroup and then wishes one
had not posted it or wishes one had phrased it differently? Well that's how
I felt yesterday. I shouldn't have said this:

"TRAINMAN9" wrote in message
...
What I would like to know in part is, whether or not I may have been

ripped
off, since the plant was sold to me as "in-spike",

Did you pay more for the plant? If so and it is not in spike perhaps you

might
feel like you were ripped off. If you feel that you did not get what you
expected why not contact the seller and arrange to send the plant back.


In my defense I sent the post off at a time when I was not fully
decompressed from worked yet, and so I was grumpy, and that influenced how I
phrased this. The grumpiness though was not the fault of the paph or the
vendor it came from. No, I did not pay more because of the in-spike. Even
though I have seen that some vendors do sell plants in spike for more money
than blooming size, but this plant was not bought from one of them. And I
have absolutely no intention of returning the plant. It's one of mine now,
and I will watch it like a mother hen every day checking out that spike or
leaf to see whether I can tell which it is over time. :-)

If you wanted this particular species why would you have not purchased it

just
because it was not in spike but was of blooming size.

Buying a plant in spike or bud does not guarantee that it will bloom. The

buds
and spikes can be damaged in shipping regardless of how well they are

packaged.
I don't know of any orchid supplier selling mail order or shipping plants

that
would guarantee the blooms on a plant.


I am already comfortable enough with Phals to buy them blooming size or even
near-blooming size because I have had Phals spike and rebloom for me enough
times for me to believe that they will do so again. But I am still too new
to Paphs (bought my first Paph in January), and thus I am still uncertain
about my Paph growing skill. That first Paph that I purchased in January has
already rebloomed for me. But still. Rationally I know that if Phals like it
in my environment, Paphs should too. I also know that in-spike does not
guarantee blooming -- if nothing else my cochleanthes amazonica has taught
me that. Rationally I know therefore that I ought to be as comfortable about
buying a Paph in-spike as buying it blooming size. But who said that I am
fully rational???

The only rational thing in my defense is that I am an impatient person, and
I have already heard that paph malipoense spikes for a long time and that
that's an understatement. This does not change the fact that I am very glad
to have this plant in my collection now, and I am still very excited about
it, and looking forward to it blooming eventually. However, if this is a new
leaf and not a new spike after all, then I will not only have to wait for
the spike to develop but for it to actually start a new spike, so my
wait-time will be longer, and I will have to be more patient for an even
longer amount of time. Ok, so maybe that's not exactly "rational" but hey,
I'm a woman, we are not supposed to be fully rational, right?

Joanna


  #7   Report Post  
Old 17-09-2004, 12:56 AM
J Fortuna
 
Posts: n/a
Default


You know how sometimes one posts a post to a newsgroup and then wishes one
had not posted it or wishes one had phrased it differently? Well that's how
I felt yesterday. I shouldn't have said this:

"TRAINMAN9" wrote in message
...
What I would like to know in part is, whether or not I may have been

ripped
off, since the plant was sold to me as "in-spike",

Did you pay more for the plant? If so and it is not in spike perhaps you

might
feel like you were ripped off. If you feel that you did not get what you
expected why not contact the seller and arrange to send the plant back.


In my defense I sent the post off at a time when I was not fully
decompressed from worked yet, and so I was grumpy, and that influenced how I
phrased this. The grumpiness though was not the fault of the paph or the
vendor it came from. No, I did not pay more because of the in-spike. Even
though I have seen that some vendors do sell plants in spike for more money
than blooming size, but this plant was not bought from one of them. And I
have absolutely no intention of returning the plant. It's one of mine now,
and I will watch it like a mother hen every day checking out that spike or
leaf to see whether I can tell which it is over time. :-)

If you wanted this particular species why would you have not purchased it

just
because it was not in spike but was of blooming size.

Buying a plant in spike or bud does not guarantee that it will bloom. The

buds
and spikes can be damaged in shipping regardless of how well they are

packaged.
I don't know of any orchid supplier selling mail order or shipping plants

that
would guarantee the blooms on a plant.


I am already comfortable enough with Phals to buy them blooming size or even
near-blooming size because I have had Phals spike and rebloom for me enough
times for me to believe that they will do so again. But I am still too new
to Paphs (bought my first Paph in January), and thus I am still uncertain
about my Paph growing skill. That first Paph that I purchased in January has
already rebloomed for me. But still. Rationally I know that if Phals like it
in my environment, Paphs should too. I also know that in-spike does not
guarantee blooming -- if nothing else my cochleanthes amazonica has taught
me that. Rationally I know therefore that I ought to be as comfortable about
buying a Paph in-spike as buying it blooming size. But who said that I am
fully rational???

The only rational thing in my defense is that I am an impatient person, and
I have already heard that paph malipoense spikes for a long time and that
that's an understatement. This does not change the fact that I am very glad
to have this plant in my collection now, and I am still very excited about
it, and looking forward to it blooming eventually. However, if this is a new
leaf and not a new spike after all, then I will not only have to wait for
the spike to develop but for it to actually start a new spike, so my
wait-time will be longer, and I will have to be more patient for an even
longer amount of time. Ok, so maybe that's not exactly "rational" but hey,
I'm a woman, we are not supposed to be fully rational, right?

Joanna


  #8   Report Post  
Old 17-09-2004, 05:53 AM
Steve
 
Posts: n/a
Default



J Fortuna wrote:
How can one tell whether a Paph is starting a new spike or growing a new
leaf?........................................


Joanna, I have a suggestion that may or may not help. I have a Paph
callosum that I have bloomed a dozen times at least. I can always tell
when that one is getting ready to bloom. Paphs always grow their leaves
in alternating directions. You know, left-right-left-right. When I look
down into that callosum and it appears that it is going to grow 2
consecutive leaves in the same direction, that's a flower bud every time.
I have other Paphs that I have bloomed once or twice so far. Some of
those are harder to tell. Sometimes the bud is symmetrical so that it
doesn't seem to curve either left or right.
I don't yet have a malipoense so I can't say how it behaves. Look at
that spike/new leaf. If If it has a curve that looks like it would go
the same direction as the last leaf, then I would bet it isn't just a
leaf. If the shape looks like a leaf that will go off in the opposite
direction, then it probably IS a leaf. If you can't tell, hope for the
best and, (dare I say it?) be patient. :-)

Steve
  #9   Report Post  
Old 17-09-2004, 05:53 AM
Steve
 
Posts: n/a
Default



J Fortuna wrote:
How can one tell whether a Paph is starting a new spike or growing a new
leaf?........................................


Joanna, I have a suggestion that may or may not help. I have a Paph
callosum that I have bloomed a dozen times at least. I can always tell
when that one is getting ready to bloom. Paphs always grow their leaves
in alternating directions. You know, left-right-left-right. When I look
down into that callosum and it appears that it is going to grow 2
consecutive leaves in the same direction, that's a flower bud every time.
I have other Paphs that I have bloomed once or twice so far. Some of
those are harder to tell. Sometimes the bud is symmetrical so that it
doesn't seem to curve either left or right.
I don't yet have a malipoense so I can't say how it behaves. Look at
that spike/new leaf. If If it has a curve that looks like it would go
the same direction as the last leaf, then I would bet it isn't just a
leaf. If the shape looks like a leaf that will go off in the opposite
direction, then it probably IS a leaf. If you can't tell, hope for the
best and, (dare I say it?) be patient. :-)

Steve
  #10   Report Post  
Old 19-09-2004, 02:45 PM
J Fortuna
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It's a spike!
Today when I held it up to look at it in the light I noticed that if one
looks into that leaf under a certain angle in the right light, one can see
there is a bud in there. :-)

By the way, in response to Steve's suggestion: the leaf looked to me as
though it would go in the alternate direction not the same direction as the
previous one. But I can definitely see a bud in there.

Thank you all.
Joanna

"TQPL" wrote in message
...
Hi Joanna,

If you give it time all will be revealed.
However if you are impatient the following might
help.

Flower buds are generally fatter so they should
feel 'thicker' in the growth.

You might be able to shine a torch behind the
growth and look through the leaves to see the
outline of the flower bud. The pigmentation on
P.malipoense might prove a bit of a problem as
this works better for the strap leafed plants.

Hope this helps.
Hope it is a flower.

Flower bud formation is not simply a factor of the
number of leaves.
With regards
Alan








"J Fortuna" wrote
in message news:ky32d.6786$lX.202@trnddc04...
How can one tell whether a Paph is starting a

new spike or growing a new
leaf?

The reason why I am asking is: I mail ordered a

Paph malipoense in-spike. It
got delivered today, with a note stating that it

is just starting a new
spike in the new growth. It looks like a new

leaf to me. But then I
remembered that my very first Paph also looked

like it was going to have a
new leaf before I left for vacation, and when I

came back it had a new
spike. So I am willing to accept that this _may_

be a new spike even though
it looks like a leaf ... But I would like to

know whether there is a way to
know for sure whether this is a spike or just

another leaf. Is there
something that I can look for to tell? Is this

something that people who
have been around Paphs long enough just know? Or

is it an educated guess,
based on the number of leaves for example?

What I would like to know in part is, whether or

not I may have been ripped
off, since the plant was sold to me as

"in-spike", and I may not have bought
it if it had been listed as "blooming size" but

not in spike. I am willing
to give it the benefit of a doubt that it may be

in spike, but it really
looks to me like it is just "in-leaf".

Joanna (who can already tell a Phal spike from

an aerial root very early on,
but alas still has much more to learn about

Paphs)








  #11   Report Post  
Old 19-09-2004, 02:45 PM
J Fortuna
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It's a spike!
Today when I held it up to look at it in the light I noticed that if one
looks into that leaf under a certain angle in the right light, one can see
there is a bud in there. :-)

By the way, in response to Steve's suggestion: the leaf looked to me as
though it would go in the alternate direction not the same direction as the
previous one. But I can definitely see a bud in there.

Thank you all.
Joanna

"TQPL" wrote in message
...
Hi Joanna,

If you give it time all will be revealed.
However if you are impatient the following might
help.

Flower buds are generally fatter so they should
feel 'thicker' in the growth.

You might be able to shine a torch behind the
growth and look through the leaves to see the
outline of the flower bud. The pigmentation on
P.malipoense might prove a bit of a problem as
this works better for the strap leafed plants.

Hope this helps.
Hope it is a flower.

Flower bud formation is not simply a factor of the
number of leaves.
With regards
Alan








"J Fortuna" wrote
in message news:ky32d.6786$lX.202@trnddc04...
How can one tell whether a Paph is starting a

new spike or growing a new
leaf?

The reason why I am asking is: I mail ordered a

Paph malipoense in-spike. It
got delivered today, with a note stating that it

is just starting a new
spike in the new growth. It looks like a new

leaf to me. But then I
remembered that my very first Paph also looked

like it was going to have a
new leaf before I left for vacation, and when I

came back it had a new
spike. So I am willing to accept that this _may_

be a new spike even though
it looks like a leaf ... But I would like to

know whether there is a way to
know for sure whether this is a spike or just

another leaf. Is there
something that I can look for to tell? Is this

something that people who
have been around Paphs long enough just know? Or

is it an educated guess,
based on the number of leaves for example?

What I would like to know in part is, whether or

not I may have been ripped
off, since the plant was sold to me as

"in-spike", and I may not have bought
it if it had been listed as "blooming size" but

not in spike. I am willing
to give it the benefit of a doubt that it may be

in spike, but it really
looks to me like it is just "in-leaf".

Joanna (who can already tell a Phal spike from

an aerial root very early on,
but alas still has much more to learn about

Paphs)






  #12   Report Post  
Old 19-09-2004, 05:29 PM
Steve
 
Posts: n/a
Default



J Fortuna wrote:
It's a spike!
Today when I held it up to look at it in the light I noticed that if one
looks into that leaf under a certain angle in the right light, one can see
there is a bud in there. :-)

By the way, in response to Steve's suggestion: the leaf looked to me as
though it would go in the alternate direction not the same direction as the
previous one. But I can definitely see a bud in there.

Thank you all.
Joanna


Very good and congratulations! Now I wonder how many months it will
torture you before it actually produces a flower?

Steve
  #13   Report Post  
Old 19-09-2004, 05:29 PM
Steve
 
Posts: n/a
Default



J Fortuna wrote:
It's a spike!
Today when I held it up to look at it in the light I noticed that if one
looks into that leaf under a certain angle in the right light, one can see
there is a bud in there. :-)

By the way, in response to Steve's suggestion: the leaf looked to me as
though it would go in the alternate direction not the same direction as the
previous one. But I can definitely see a bud in there.

Thank you all.
Joanna


Very good and congratulations! Now I wonder how many months it will
torture you before it actually produces a flower?

Steve
  #14   Report Post  
Old 20-09-2004, 11:17 PM
TQPL
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Woopeeeeeee,
Hope you take a pic for your records.
Alan

"J Fortuna" wrote
in message newsbf3d.348$C8.251@trnddc05...
It's a spike!
Today when I held it up to look at it in the

light I noticed that if one
looks into that leaf under a certain angle in

the right light, one can see
there is a bud in there. :-)



  #15   Report Post  
Old 20-09-2004, 11:17 PM
TQPL
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Woopeeeeeee,
Hope you take a pic for your records.
Alan

"J Fortuna" wrote
in message newsbf3d.348$C8.251@trnddc05...
It's a spike!
Today when I held it up to look at it in the

light I noticed that if one
looks into that leaf under a certain angle in

the right light, one can see
there is a bud in there. :-)



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