longevity of popular misconception of orchids
 

I keep being surprised that even though orchids are becoming much more
common (in our area most supermarkets carry them), how many people still
have the popular misconception that orchids are difficult to care for, easy
to kill, sensitive, require a greenhouse, require special attention way
beyond that of most houseplants, etc etc. Today I talked to a co-worker who
had until today thought all these things, until today she had not thought
that she could possibly try growing an orchid, and she did not realize how
long Phals are in bloom, nor that room temperature is just fine for them.
She told me that she will now get one to try it out as well, and "we will
see how long I can keep it alive before you say that I am horrible at
growing the orchid" or something like that.

I wonder how long it will take for this popular misunderstanding to change
in our culture, now that orchids are becoming more and more popular? How
many more years or decades will it take before we can say "orchids were once
regarded as fragile and hard to grow, but nowadays most people understand
that it is not so"?

I also wonder how many percent of people in the U.S. (for example) now own
orchids as houseplants, and how many more would own orchids as houseplants
if only they realized that orchids are not hard to grow and that Phals bloom
so much longer than most other flowering houseplants?

Joanna

P.S.: I still have not killed a single orchid thus far in 4 years of growing
orchids. Our wedding anniversary (and thus orchid growing anniversary) is
tomorrow.

I too have had similar experiences. I think in part though, it's due to
the fact that a lot of people just don't do their homework as well.
Orchids are easy, but only if you put _some_ effort into it, and learn
about their culture. Commonly, a person buys an orchid from HD or
Wal-mart...etc, over waters, kills the thing, and never bothers to find
out more, and then just go on to assume, based on that sole experience,
that orchids are hard to care for, and that they suck at it. In time
this will change, but it will be a long time I imagine.

I can't remember where, but I heard an anecdote one time which was
something along the lines of one has to kill 100+ orchids before
becoming good at caring for them, and getting the hang of things. That
number may be a tad high, but even if it was 10 orchids, well, during
that time, the owner is probably thinking with each death how futile it
is for them.

Cheers,
Xi

J Fortuna wrote:
I keep being surprised that even though orchids are becoming much more
common (in our area most supermarkets carry them), how many people still
have the popular misconception that orchids are difficult to care for, easy
to kill, sensitive, require a greenhouse, require special attention way
beyond that of most houseplants, etc etc. Today I talked to a co-worker who
had until today thought all these things, until today she had not thought
that she could possibly try growing an orchid, and she did not realize how
long Phals are in bloom, nor that room temperature is just fine for them.
She told me that she will now get one to try it out as well, and "we will
see how long I can keep it alive before you say that I am horrible at
growing the orchid" or something like that.

I wonder how long it will take for this popular misunderstanding to change
in our culture, now that orchids are becoming more and more popular? How
many more years or decades will it take before we can say "orchids were once
regarded as fragile and hard to grow, but nowadays most people understand
that it is not so"?

I also wonder how many percent of people in the U.S. (for example) now own
orchids as houseplants, and how many more would own orchids as houseplants
if only they realized that orchids are not hard to grow and that Phals bloom
so much longer than most other flowering houseplants?

Joanna

P.S.: I still have not killed a single orchid thus far in 4 years of growing
orchids. Our wedding anniversary (and thus orchid growing anniversary) is
tomorrow.

In article rxVbe.16734$yc.13891@trnddc07,
"J Fortuna" wrote:

I can keep healthy looking Phal plants but they are reluctant to send up
new blooms. Still, purchasing an occasional plant is economical as the
bloom lasts so long. They are far cheaper than buying bouquets of
blossems.

Dick

I keep being surprised that even though orchids are becoming much more
common (in our area most supermarkets carry them), how many people still
have the popular misconception that orchids are difficult to care for, easy
to kill, sensitive, require a greenhouse, require special attention way
beyond that of most houseplants, etc etc. Today I talked to a co-worker who
had until today thought all these things, until today she had not thought
that she could possibly try growing an orchid, and she did not realize how
long Phals are in bloom, nor that room temperature is just fine for them.
She told me that she will now get one to try it out as well, and "we will
see how long I can keep it alive before you say that I am horrible at
growing the orchid" or something like that.

I wonder how long it will take for this popular misunderstanding to change
in our culture, now that orchids are becoming more and more popular? How
many more years or decades will it take before we can say "orchids were once
regarded as fragile and hard to grow, but nowadays most people understand
that it is not so"?

Joanna,

If someone asks me if they will be able to raise potted orchids or grow them
from flask I have always told them no. And then I change the subject to
another topic not about orchids. If they ask me for a growing tip without
bewailing their destiny to ultimately kill the plant, then that is another
happier story of course and I will offer my advice.

I can't stand people who have doubts about themselves and their most
elementary capabilities... so I never encourage them to break out of their
mental prison (and try orchid growing).

But you know what is funny? Whenever I say that to someone (especially on
the phone) they almost always turn around and still buy 3 flasks (ie the
minimum) from me. It's strange.

Mick

Dick,

I can keep healthy looking Phal plants but they are reluctant to send up
new blooms.

I once heard that the two most frequent reasons for Phals not reblooming are
(1) insufficient light; and (2) insufficient difference between night and
day -- to initiate spike a Phal needs several nights of 10-15 degrees
Fahrenheit difference. I tend to open the window next to my Phals at night
when the night temperature is supposed to be in the 60s. Also, have you
tried moving the Phals to a different location? Sometimes that can make a
difference for reluctant re-bloomers -- while we humans may think that the
spot is great for the Phal, the Phal may out of some reason prefer another
one. Also how long have you had these Phals that have not rebloomed for you?

Still, purchasing an occasional plant is economical as the
bloom lasts so long. They are far cheaper than buying bouquets of
blossems.

My thoughts exactly: I have one Phal that I paid $55 for this Phal back in
2003, so it seemed quite expensive at the time. The first time it bloomed
for 6 months on two spikes. Then it rebloomed for 4 months on a branched
spike in 2004. Now it's in bloom for the third time and it has 20 three-inch
flowers on one spike, it has bloomed for 4 months already and does not look
like it's done blooming yet at all. I have already had 14 months total of
flowering out of this plant, so that's $4 per month. So even a $55 Phal can
become very cheap over time, and even if it had not rebloomed, those 6
months of initial blooming already meant that it cost less than $10 per
month at that time.

Joanna

I'm probably in a better position to answer this question than most
people. I've got one phal. That's it. It came from a hardware store
because the woman there said she grows them and it's easy. She gave me
a few basic instructions. They seem to have worked, and the plant is
doing O.K.

Shortly after buying the phal I went to a local orchid show to find
out a bit more about caring for it. Everybody there gave me
conflicting advice -- when they would even deem to give me advice.
Most just said things like "I don't keep phals" or "you'd better ask
somebody else."

When I tried talking to vendors, I'd tell them "I'm new to this but I
like that plant. What conditions does it need?" Then they would
proceed to tell me that I had the wrong facing window, or the wrong
room conditions. They also told me the plant wouldn't likely bloom for
me, or wouldn't bloom for two, three, four, etc. years.

The few vendors who tried to convince me to buy plants tried way too
hard. They really believed in the hard sell and basically told me
that it would grow no matter what There seemed to be no middle ground
-- especially since a vendor selling an identical plant a couple
spaces over would tell me point blank that I'd just likely kill it. So
even though I was almost ready to buy another plant, I walked away
empty handed (except for a small bag of fertilizer). Actually even
buying that was frustrating because every vendor told me I needed a
different strength/type/numbers (10-30-10, 20-20-20 etc.) of
fertilizer or that I needed two or three different types (one for
general growth, one for blooming, one for something else, etc.).

Even following the discussions on this group is off-putting. I just
have a normal apartment. I don't have grow lights or plant-specific
humidifiers or hydroponic trays. My room temperature stays pretty
constant -- I don't have 10 or 15 degree differences between day and
night temperatures. As far as I can tell my plant shouldn't be growing
at all, especially since I only have one north facing window that
isn't shaded by a balcony or doesn't have a window unit
heater/airconditioner blowing under it. Added to those limitations, I
constantly read about people who have had plants for years that
haven't bloomed or rebloomed for them, and it all gets a bit
discouraging.

I'd love to get a couple more plants -- another phal or two would be
nice, I'd love a nice fancy catt or an LC and something fragant would
be wonderful -- but beyond not really having space for them, the more
I read, the more I wonder whether I want to take the risk of buying
another, better plant. On top of it all, I really hate obsessing about
my plants. I'm happy watering them and repotting them when needed, but
I don't want to have to fuss with them on daily basis. When I was
travelling a lot more for business, I'd often joke that my plants were
happier when I was gone and they were ignored for a few days. I don't
know if better quality orchids can stand up to that kind of treatment.

Don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled with my phal. I'm glad I've got it. I
just don't know if I'll ever buy another one.
--Vic

"J Fortuna" wrote in
news:rxVbe.16734$yc.13891@trnddc07:

Joanna

Well Joanna I think it will only happen when the people who sell them gain
some inkling of how to grow them. People as in management. Associates are
required to do what they are told and not allowed by management to think
for themselves. I've been around to most of the retailers like Target,
Lowes, Home Depot, Franks Nursery, Target, Kmart and Trader Joes. The only
place I found that had some idea of how to care for them was Franks Nursery
where they kept culture sheets handy for the customers. The worst places
(in order of ignorance) are all #1 Home Depot = over watering (plants drown
in their plastic/fancy containers or put into half full trays of water.)
#2 Target drownings on a regular bases (fancy containers without drain
holes) #3Lowes plants are either over watered or never watered.
So you can see that by the time most people buy these plants they are
already on their way to being dead.
But then there's people like me that prey on that ignorance and improve my
orchid collection at the discount self.
signed sucker for $ discount shelf.

Grow well and bloom magnificently
Dusty

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 05:07:44 +0000, vicsage wrote:


Don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled with my phal. I'm glad I've got it. I
just don't know if I'll ever buy another one. --Vic

Same here. I have a really green thumb and can grow just about anything
but I'll be damned if I can get my phals and dens to bloom. Dens are neat
as hell but I probably won't buy any more Phals. I also really like Oncs
now too.

Tom

Vic,

I know -more conflicting info. There are some catts that take a little less
light that might work in a north window. Gold Country Orchids has them. They
are smaller too.
Another group you might look at for low light, easy to grow, is the Phrags.
There are some that also stay small if you want that. (they grow on you.)

Bob
wrote in message
...
I'm probably in a better position to answer this question than most
people. I've got one phal. That's it. It came from a hardware store
because the woman there said she grows them and it's easy. She gave me
a few basic instructions. They seem to have worked, and the plant is
doing O.K.

Shortly after buying the phal I went to a local orchid show to find
out a bit more about caring for it. Everybody there gave me
conflicting advice -- when they would even deem to give me advice.
Most just said things like "I don't keep phals" or "you'd better ask
somebody else."

When I tried talking to vendors, I'd tell them "I'm new to this but I
like that plant. What conditions does it need?" Then they would
proceed to tell me that I had the wrong facing window, or the wrong
room conditions. They also told me the plant wouldn't likely bloom for
me, or wouldn't bloom for two, three, four, etc. years.

The few vendors who tried to convince me to buy plants tried way too
hard. They really believed in the hard sell and basically told me
that it would grow no matter what There seemed to be no middle ground
-- especially since a vendor selling an identical plant a couple
spaces over would tell me point blank that I'd just likely kill it. So
even though I was almost ready to buy another plant, I walked away
empty handed (except for a small bag of fertilizer). Actually even
buying that was frustrating because every vendor told me I needed a
different strength/type/numbers (10-30-10, 20-20-20 etc.) of
fertilizer or that I needed two or three different types (one for
general growth, one for blooming, one for something else, etc.).

Even following the discussions on this group is off-putting. I just
have a normal apartment. I don't have grow lights or plant-specific
humidifiers or hydroponic trays. My room temperature stays pretty
constant -- I don't have 10 or 15 degree differences between day and
night temperatures. As far as I can tell my plant shouldn't be growing
at all, especially since I only have one north facing window that
isn't shaded by a balcony or doesn't have a window unit
heater/airconditioner blowing under it. Added to those limitations, I
constantly read about people who have had plants for years that
haven't bloomed or rebloomed for them, and it all gets a bit
discouraging.

I'd love to get a couple more plants -- another phal or two would be
nice, I'd love a nice fancy catt or an LC and something fragant would
be wonderful -- but beyond not really having space for them, the more
I read, the more I wonder whether I want to take the risk of buying
another, better plant. On top of it all, I really hate obsessing about
my plants. I'm happy watering them and repotting them when needed, but
I don't want to have to fuss with them on daily basis. When I was
travelling a lot more for business, I'd often joke that my plants were
happier when I was gone and they were ignored for a few days. I don't
know if better quality orchids can stand up to that kind of treatment.

Don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled with my phal. I'm glad I've got it. I
just don't know if I'll ever buy another one.
--Vic

Vic,

Your story makes me realize that maybe I am the one with the misconception
after all.

I consider Phals easy, even though I do have grow lights for them, since I
(like you) have only north-facing windows in my apartment and I turn these
lights on every day before I go to work and turn them off at night before
going to bed, and even though as mentioned in my other post when the whether
is in the 60s at night I tend to open the window to give them the 10-15
degree difference in temp. Before I did all this, my first two Phals did not
reflower for me for two years. To me this still is not too much to ask, so I
consider them "easy", but I guess as compared to a plant that just sits
there in a corner of the room and gets watered once in a blue moon, they are
not all that easy. However, I can't keep houseplants alive that other people
consider hard to kill -- such as cacti or dumbcane, a plant which I killed
very quickly, and didn't care enough about to try to prevent from dying. So
I guess, whether Phals are easy to grow in part depends on ones definition
of "easy", how much one is willing to do, without feeling put upon.

I look forward to someday moving to a place with eastern windows though --
my dream house will have an eastern bay window for the Phals :-) and then I
won't need to do anything special to get them to reflower.

Joanna

wrote in message
...
I'm probably in a better position to answer this question than most
people. I've got one phal. That's it. It came from a hardware store
because the woman there said she grows them and it's easy. She gave me
a few basic instructions. They seem to have worked, and the plant is
doing O.K.

Shortly after buying the phal I went to a local orchid show to find
out a bit more about caring for it. Everybody there gave me
conflicting advice -- when they would even deem to give me advice.
Most just said things like "I don't keep phals" or "you'd better ask
somebody else."

When I tried talking to vendors, I'd tell them "I'm new to this but I
like that plant. What conditions does it need?" Then they would
proceed to tell me that I had the wrong facing window, or the wrong
room conditions. They also told me the plant wouldn't likely bloom for
me, or wouldn't bloom for two, three, four, etc. years.

The few vendors who tried to convince me to buy plants tried way too
hard. They really believed in the hard sell and basically told me
that it would grow no matter what There seemed to be no middle ground
-- especially since a vendor selling an identical plant a couple
spaces over would tell me point blank that I'd just likely kill it. So
even though I was almost ready to buy another plant, I walked away
empty handed (except for a small bag of fertilizer). Actually even
buying that was frustrating because every vendor told me I needed a
different strength/type/numbers (10-30-10, 20-20-20 etc.) of
fertilizer or that I needed two or three different types (one for
general growth, one for blooming, one for something else, etc.).

Even following the discussions on this group is off-putting. I just
have a normal apartment. I don't have grow lights or plant-specific
humidifiers or hydroponic trays. My room temperature stays pretty
constant -- I don't have 10 or 15 degree differences between day and
night temperatures. As far as I can tell my plant shouldn't be growing
at all, especially since I only have one north facing window that
isn't shaded by a balcony or doesn't have a window unit
heater/airconditioner blowing under it. Added to those limitations, I
constantly read about people who have had plants for years that
haven't bloomed or rebloomed for them, and it all gets a bit
discouraging.

I'd love to get a couple more plants -- another phal or two would be
nice, I'd love a nice fancy catt or an LC and something fragant would
be wonderful -- but beyond not really having space for them, the more
I read, the more I wonder whether I want to take the risk of buying
another, better plant. On top of it all, I really hate obsessing about
my plants. I'm happy watering them and repotting them when needed, but
I don't want to have to fuss with them on daily basis. When I was
travelling a lot more for business, I'd often joke that my plants were
happier when I was gone and they were ignored for a few days. I don't
know if better quality orchids can stand up to that kind of treatment.

Don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled with my phal. I'm glad I've got it. I
just don't know if I'll ever buy another one.
--Vic

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 06:49:10 -0500, "Bob Walsh"
wrote:

Vic,

I know -more conflicting info. There are some catts that take a little less
light that might work in a north window. Gold Country Orchids has them. They
are smaller too.
Another group you might look at for low light, easy to grow, is the Phrags.
There are some that also stay small if you want that. (they grow on you.)

Bob

Ok - Start with the words windowsill Catt. Expect something the
right size to grow in a tea cup or just a touch larger. Always
buy in bloom - then you know you like the bloom and that the
plant is large enough to bloom. Expect that some orchids will
re-bloom easier than others. Expect that some plants will take a
year off to adjust to your care and your lighting conditions.

No Gold Country, Alan has a breeding plan to breed just for
windowsill growers. That is why he has 'tea cup size' plants.
They are small enough to be balanced on the windowsill.

Phrags really like more light. Paphs are the lower light of the
two slippers. And phrags go from something that looks very
grassy to something that has a 4' leaf span. So, I will say
here, you have to know what you are picking. If you are buying
in bloom or at least in spike with a fair amount of development
you know what size the plant will be when it blooms. I always
figure a small or young plant can grow another 30%. Some will,
others not.

Where you live makes a difference for that north window. We all
start assuming your in North America. We have members here in
many areas of the world. North light in OZ is South in North Am.

On fertilizer - best advice is weakly -weekly. So that you
respect the species in these hybrids. They developed in the
tropics of the world, not in a waterfall of food. Lower light,
lower food needs.

Humidity is always nice to have. Several plants together help
each other here. An open bowl of water or a splash tray of rocks
that catches the overflow when you water all increase it
marginally and only as a micro climate. In a circle of plants
the centered one will get the most benefit. Any containment will
help increase that. My ML grew in a north greenhouse window. It
was open to the room completely but because the window itself was
a bump out it was contained on the other sides. The open bowls
of water helped keep her plants happy.

As to day and night temp differences... most of us that pay heat
bills allow the house to cool a bit at night. We also say we
sleep better. So unless you set your thermostat to hold 70, the
normal house drops close to the 10-15 degrees at night.

Then there is always. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. You
enjoy one. Two would be more fun.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

da wrote:

When I tried talking to vendors, I'd tell them "I'm new to this but I
like that plant. What conditions does it need?" Then they would
proceed to tell me that I had the wrong facing window, or the wrong
room conditions. They also told me the plant wouldn't likely bloom for
me, or wouldn't bloom for two, three, four, etc. years.
Hmm.. Well, that shouldn't happen. I don't know many vendors (around
here, at least) who would have done that. There is a bit of a problem
at shows, especially when the sales area is very busy, we don't always
have time to give a detailed answer. That might be what happened to
you. That is why I put my website on my tags, I usually tell people
with more questions than I have time to answer to drop me an e-mail.


The few vendors who tried to convince me to buy plants tried way too
hard. They really believed in the hard sell and basically told me
that it would grow no matter what There seemed to be no middle ground
-- especially since a vendor selling an identical plant a couple
spaces over would tell me point blank that I'd just likely kill it. So
even though I was almost ready to buy another plant, I walked away
empty handed (except for a small bag of fertilizer). Actually even
buying that was frustrating because every vendor told me I needed a
different strength/type/numbers (10-30-10, 20-20-20 etc.) of
fertilizer or that I needed two or three different types (one for
general growth, one for blooming, one for something else, etc.).

I don't buy from hard sell type vendors either. I just don't believe
in that. Somebody who is selling a plant, especially to somebody who is
a professed beginner, should make a point of finding something that will
work for you. If they don't have a suitable plant (many vendors
specialize in things that might only grow in a cloud forest, for
example), they should just tell you that and perhaps point you to
another vendor who has a bunch of what would work for you.


Even following the discussions on this group is off-putting. I just
have a normal apartment. I don't have grow lights or plant-specific
humidifiers or hydroponic trays. My room temperature stays pretty
constant -- I don't have 10 or 15 degree differences between day and
night temperatures. As far as I can tell my plant shouldn't be growing
at all, especially since I only have one north facing window that
isn't shaded by a balcony or doesn't have a window unit
heater/airconditioner blowing under it. Added to those limitations, I
constantly read about people who have had plants for years that
haven't bloomed or rebloomed for them, and it all gets a bit
discouraging.


I'll tell you a little known secret... There isn't any one way to grow
an orchid. There, I've broken the code. I would give my grandmother
(who had a bright green thumb) an orchid a few times a year, and she
would grow them in absolutely the opposite way I would suggest. Dark
corners, sitting in saucers of water, no food... They grew like weeds.
You have a very difficult set of conditions, but not an insurmountable
one. Find a good seller of plants that has a good selection of
different plants. Preferrably one in your town or near to it. Make an
appointment to visit them, so they have plenty of time to work with you.
Make sure you buy a few plants, to make it worth their while, but I
promise it will be a better experience than you had at the show.

Rob


--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

J Fortuna wrote:

I wonder how long it will take for this popular misunderstanding to change
in our culture, now that orchids are becoming more and more popular? How
many more years or decades will it take before we can say "orchids were once
regarded as fragile and hard to grow, but nowadays most people understand
that it is not so"?

I'm not sure I totally agree with what I'm about to say... But I think
there is something to be said for the 'Orchid Mystique'. Part of the
fun and excitement about growing orchids is doing something that is just
a bit naughty. "I really can't grow this... I really shouldn't grow
this... oh, I really can't resist...". *grin* And there might be an
ongoing, if perhaps subconcious, promotion of the orchid mystique going
on, especially by the people who are selling the plants. Part of the
allure of orchids is rarity and perceived difficulty of culture. That
keeps the price up a bit, too.
Of course we all know that Phalaenopsis are one of the three or four
biggest floral crops in the world. Roses are first, I think. So
orchids really are common. More common than african violets, probably.
But, realize that most people don't buy any floral crop for long term
care. People who buy roses buy cut flowers, mostly, not rose bushes.
People who buy the big box store phalaenopsis are buying a 'cut flower'
that is still on the plant, they don't expect it to last forever and
don't really want it to. Of course there are still people who buy rose
bushes and actively cultivate them (Just ask the ARS). And there are a
portion of people who buy phalaenopsis and actively cultivate them. But
I think those people are the same people, or at least the same type of
people.


I also wonder how many percent of people in the U.S. (for example) now own
orchids as houseplants, and how many more would own orchids as houseplants
if only they realized that orchids are not hard to grow and that Phals bloom
so much longer than most other flowering houseplants?

Far more than you think, most likely. But, the vast majority of these
people don't think of them as houseplants. They think of them as floral
arrangments which they can easily replace. For a while, you couldn't
open a magazine without finding a dozen pictures of orchids. Better
Homes and Gardens was filled with them in the interior decorating
sections. This Old House always seemed to have an orchid in an interior
room shot. Orchids are a fashion accessory, not a houseplant.

Joanna

P.S.: I still have not killed a single orchid thus far in 4 years of growing
orchids. Our wedding anniversary (and thus orchid growing anniversary) is
tomorrow.

You aren't trying hard enough! *grin* Seriously though, if you
haven't killed any orchids, you probably need to try growing some new
kinds. Most of the fun of orchids (to me) is learning how to grow new
things.


--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

J Fortuna wrote:
I keep being surprised that even though orchids are becoming much more
common (in our area most supermarkets carry them), how many people still
have the popular misconception that orchids are difficult to care for, easy
to kill, sensitive, require a greenhouse, require special attention way
beyond that of most houseplants, etc etc. Today I talked to a co-worker who
had until today thought all these things, until today she had not thought
that she could possibly try growing an orchid, and she did not realize how
long Phals are in bloom, nor that room temperature is just fine for them.
She told me that she will now get one to try it out as well, and "we will
see how long I can keep it alive before you say that I am horrible at
growing the orchid" or something like that.

I wonder how long it will take for this popular misunderstanding to change
in our culture, now that orchids are becoming more and more popular? How
many more years or decades will it take before we can say "orchids were once
regarded as fragile and hard to grow, but nowadays most people understand
that it is not so"?

I also wonder how many percent of people in the U.S. (for example) now own
orchids as houseplants, and how many more would own orchids as houseplants
if only they realized that orchids are not hard to grow and that Phals bloom
so much longer than most other flowering houseplants?

Joanna

P.S.: I still have not killed a single orchid thus far in 4 years of growing
orchids. Our wedding anniversary (and thus orchid growing anniversary) is
tomorrow.




How long ago did you stop paying someone to repot your orchids for you?

K Barrett

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:18:04 GMT, Tom Randy
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 05:07:44 +0000, vicsage wrote:


Don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled with my phal. I'm glad I've got it. I
just don't know if I'll ever buy another one. --Vic

Same here. I have a really green thumb and can grow just about anything
but I'll be damned if I can get my phals and dens to bloom. Dens are neat
as hell but I probably won't buy any more Phals. I also really like Oncs
now too.

Tom


Actually Tom, I didn't mean I doubt if I'd ever buy another phal. I
meant I doubt if I'd ever buy another orchid. So far I've been lucky
with the one I own -- it has rebloomed and it is developing new
leaves. I just don't know if that luck would hold with a second plant,
and I'm cheap enough to hate the idea of throwing $20, $30, $40 or
more on something that is going to die on me. Since most of my
houseplants have been grown from cuttings, or picked up on deeply
discounted sale tables, investing double digit figures in a plant
takes a lot of faith, and I'm not sure I believe enough in my ability
to grow orchids.

If I were to consider another orchid, a phal would probably be high on
my list. I'd like something different, but I'd have to reason that if
I could grow this one, my odds might be slightly better trying to grow
another, similar plant.
--Vic

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 07:09:47 -0600, Susan Erickson
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 06:49:10 -0500, "Bob Walsh"
wrote:

Vic,

I know -more conflicting info. There are some catts that take a little less
light that might work in a north window. Gold Country Orchids has them. They
are smaller too.

Ah conflicting information. g I've come to expect nothing else in
the world of orchids.
Another group you might look at for low light, easy to grow, is the Phrags.
There are some that also stay small if you want that. (they grow on you.)

Bob

I can't say that I can recall seeing any phrags that have caught my
attention, but I'll try to keep my eyes open. As for what I want, I'd
prefer large and spectacular over small and petit, especially if they
are going to require effort on my part.

Ok - Start with the words windowsill Catt. Expect something the
right size to grow in a tea cup or just a touch larger. Always
buy in bloom - then you know you like the bloom and that the
plant is large enough to bloom. Expect that some orchids will
re-bloom easier than others. Expect that some plants will take a
year off to adjust to your care and your lighting conditions.

No Gold Country, Alan has a breeding plan to breed just for
windowsill growers. That is why he has 'tea cup size' plants.
They are small enough to be balanced on the windowsill.


Then they must be microscopically tiny. g My windowsill is about
3/4" wide. My phal is perched on a table about a foot away from the
window. It's the only spot I've got for it.

Phrags really like more light. Paphs are the lower light of the
two slippers. And phrags go from something that looks very
grassy to something that has a 4' leaf span. So, I will say
here, you have to know what you are picking. If you are buying
in bloom or at least in spike with a fair amount of development
you know what size the plant will be when it blooms. I always
figure a small or young plant can grow another 30%. Some will,
others not.

Where you live makes a difference for that north window. We all
start assuming your in North America. We have members here in
many areas of the world. North light in OZ is South in North Am.

Sorry, I thought the .canada in my e-mail address gave it away. I'm in
southern Ontario, the Toronto area more specifically.

On fertilizer - best advice is weakly -weekly. So that you
respect the species in these hybrids. They developed in the
tropics of the world, not in a waterfall of food. Lower light,
lower food needs.

Humidity is always nice to have. Several plants together help
each other here. An open bowl of water or a splash tray of rocks
that catches the overflow when you water all increase it
marginally and only as a micro climate. In a circle of plants
the centered one will get the most benefit. Any containment will
help increase that. My ML grew in a north greenhouse window. It
was open to the room completely but because the window itself was
a bump out it was contained on the other sides. The open bowls
of water helped keep her plants happy.

I run a humidifier for my own comfort, but whether it's enough for the
phal is up for debate. I don't test for humidity levels.

As to day and night temp differences... most of us that pay heat
bills allow the house to cool a bit at night. We also say we
sleep better. So unless you set your thermostat to hold 70, the
normal house drops close to the 10-15 degrees at night.

I try for the standard 70 degrees, give or take a bit. The temperature
drops a bit at night, but not enough to make a difference for the
plant. Given the touchy nature of the heater units in this place, it
is best to find a comfortable temperature and try to maintain it. They
don't offer a lot of fine control. Hot and cold are easy. A
comfortable living temperature is much tougher.

Then there is always. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. You
enjoy one. Two would be more fun.

It's tempting. We'll have to see.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

wrote in message
...

Actually Tom, I didn't mean I doubt if I'd ever buy another phal. I
meant I doubt if I'd ever buy another orchid. So far I've been lucky
with the one I own -- it has rebloomed and it is developing new
leaves. I just don't know if that luck would hold with a second plant,
and I'm cheap enough to hate the idea of throwing $20, $30, $40 or
more on something that is going to die on me. Since most of my
houseplants have been grown from cuttings, or picked up on deeply
discounted sale tables, investing double digit figures in a plant
takes a lot of faith, and I'm not sure I believe enough in my ability
to grow orchids.



I dunno- I know I waste plenty of money of things I don't have nearly as
much fun with.
In my particular case I absolutely *hate* spending money on eating out when
for the same amount of money I can buy enough groceries to feed myself for a
week. I figure an orchid can cost approximately the same as an entree and
drinks for one person, and I have a plant to enjoy for weeks afterwards.

What's your thing? Books? Vacations? Theater tickets?

Nearly everyone has some disposable income or money spent on unnecessary
items. Whether it is $1 a week or $100 a week I see it as a small price when
compaired to the hours of enjoyment you get from them.

Remember this?
If of thy mortal good thou art bereft
And of thy slender store two loaves alone to thee are left,
Sell one, and with the dole
Buy hyacinths to feed thy soul.
--Saadi

Or orchids!


--
Toni
http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com

da wrote:

Then they must be microscopically tiny. g My windowsill is about
3/4" wide. My phal is perched on a table about a foot away from the
window. It's the only spot I've got for it.
I've got some mini-catts in 2" pots. Blooming. That might just barely
fit on a 3/4" windowsill *grin*. Many people, however, will put up a
shelf right next to the window. Don't know how yours is arranged, but a
few cheap shelf brackets (a couple dollars total) and a piece of pine
would make a nice shelf. You could even make it even with the current
windowsill. If you have a lot of houseplants, you are probably coveting
a wider windowsill anyway...



I run a humidifier for my own comfort, but whether it's enough for the
phal is up for debate. I don't test for humidity levels.
If you are comfortable, it is fine. Phals are well adapted to normal
household humidity.


I try for the standard 70 degrees, give or take a bit. The temperature
drops a bit at night, but not enough to make a difference for the
plant. Given the touchy nature of the heater units in this place, it
is best to find a comfortable temperature and try to maintain it. They
don't offer a lot of fine control. Hot and cold are easy. A
comfortable living temperature is much tougher.

In the fall, when the nights are cooler, crack open the window a bit.
A little fresh air never hurts, and you can always close it when it gets
really cold.


Then there is always. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. You
enjoy one. Two would be more fun.
See Rob's Rules, below. *grin*

You would probably do well with a paphiopedilum, actually. I think
they are even easier than Phals. Look for paphs (lady slippers) with
variegated leaves. Those are usually very low light requiring, and I
haven't noticed they care too much about temperature differentials.

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:19:12 GMT, "J Fortuna"
wrote:

Vic,

Your story makes me realize that maybe I am the one with the misconception
after all.

I consider Phals easy, even though I do have grow lights for them, since I
(like you) have only north-facing windows in my apartment and I turn these
lights on every day before I go to work and turn them off at night before
going to bed, and even though as mentioned in my other post when the whether
is in the 60s at night I tend to open the window to give them the 10-15
degree difference in temp. Before I did all this, my first two Phals did not
reflower for me for two years. To me this still is not too much to ask, so I
consider them "easy", but I guess as compared to a plant that just sits
there in a corner of the room and gets watered once in a blue moon, they are
not all that easy. However, I can't keep houseplants alive that other people
consider hard to kill -- such as cacti or dumbcane, a plant which I killed
very quickly, and didn't care enough about to try to prevent from dying. So
I guess, whether Phals are easy to grow in part depends on ones definition
of "easy", how much one is willing to do, without feeling put upon.

I look forward to someday moving to a place with eastern windows though --
my dream house will have an eastern bay window for the Phals :-) and then I
won't need to do anything special to get them to reflower.

Joanna


Joanna,

Well so far my orchid is doing better than the African violet and
kalanchoe I tried. I've got lots of basic greenery growing but I want
something that flowers, and I refuse to count my spider plant which
suddenly came back to life just as I had decided to pitch it out.
There's just not enough bloom on it to consider it a flowering plant.
(I don't really have enough light to keep a spider plant truly happy,
especially in the spot where I want to put it. Its eventual fate is
still hanging in the balance, although it will have a home on the
patio for the summer.)

I usually try wintering my outdoor planters by bringing them inside.
Some of my herbs survived staying indoors, some didn't. My planter
geraniums (and their companion green fillers) are growing like crazy.
I've even got a bloom on one of them.

I'm willing to give any plant a chance, but I'm not going to change my
lifestyle or comfort level just to coddle a plant. Even if I could
open the window closest to my phal, I doubt I would. I hate freezing
at night, and just because cooler temperatures are helpful to the
orchid, they might not be for some of the other plants I've got
growing.

I've got plenty of patience, but I don't know if I'd wait two or three
years for an orchid to rebloom. I think a year would be about as far
as I'd go. Fortunately I didn't have to wait anywhere near that long.

As you said, it all comes down to our individual definitions of
"easy." To me that is pruning and watering. Even feeding is a bit of a
stretch. I don't want to have three or four different compositions of
fertilzer to accomodate everything that is growing around me or to
have to worry about switching feeds depending on the time of year or
the growing cycle of the plants. That's way too complicated for me.
g
--Vic

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:36:11 -0400, Rob Halgren
wrote:

wrote:

When I tried talking to vendors, I'd tell them "I'm new to this but I
like that plant. What conditions does it need?" Then they would
proceed to tell me that I had the wrong facing window, or the wrong
room conditions. They also told me the plant wouldn't likely bloom for
me, or wouldn't bloom for two, three, four, etc. years.
Hmm.. Well, that shouldn't happen. I don't know many vendors (around
here, at least) who would have done that. There is a bit of a problem
at shows, especially when the sales area is very busy, we don't always
have time to give a detailed answer. That might be what happened to
you. That is why I put my website on my tags, I usually tell people
with more questions than I have time to answer to drop me an e-mail.

I found most of the vendors willing to talk and to answer my
questions, so I don't think it was a time issue. Most just weren't
very encouraging. As soon as I said "rookie with a north facing
window" I think most of them just decided I wasn't worth the trouble.
I can understand them not wanting to sell a plant that isn't going to
survive. That has the potential to harm their reputation or possible
future sales.

I've just taken a quick look at your site. Your descriptions seem nice
and helpful.


The few vendors who tried to convince me to buy plants tried way too
hard. They really believed in the hard sell and basically told me
that it would grow no matter what There seemed to be no middle ground
-- especially since a vendor selling an identical plant a couple
spaces over would tell me point blank that I'd just likely kill it. So
even though I was almost ready to buy another plant, I walked away
empty handed (except for a small bag of fertilizer). Actually even
buying that was frustrating because every vendor told me I needed a
different strength/type/numbers (10-30-10, 20-20-20 etc.) of
fertilizer or that I needed two or three different types (one for
general growth, one for blooming, one for something else, etc.).

I don't buy from hard sell type vendors either. I just don't believe
in that. Somebody who is selling a plant, especially to somebody who is
a professed beginner, should make a point of finding something that will
work for you. If they don't have a suitable plant (many vendors
specialize in things that might only grow in a cloud forest, for
example), they should just tell you that and perhaps point you to
another vendor who has a bunch of what would work for you.


Even following the discussions on this group is off-putting. I just
have a normal apartment. I don't have grow lights or plant-specific
humidifiers or hydroponic trays. My room temperature stays pretty
constant -- I don't have 10 or 15 degree differences between day and
night temperatures. As far as I can tell my plant shouldn't be growing
at all, especially since I only have one north facing window that
isn't shaded by a balcony or doesn't have a window unit
heater/airconditioner blowing under it. Added to those limitations, I
constantly read about people who have had plants for years that
haven't bloomed or rebloomed for them, and it all gets a bit
discouraging.


I'll tell you a little known secret... There isn't any one way to grow
an orchid. There, I've broken the code. I would give my grandmother
(who had a bright green thumb) an orchid a few times a year, and she
would grow them in absolutely the opposite way I would suggest. Dark
corners, sitting in saucers of water, no food... They grew like weeds.

Actually that's the approach I'm trying to take. I'm trying to trust
my instincts. I look for advice when I think I need it, but since a
lot of it is conflicting, I try to do what I think will work.

I think the whole obligation to learn about orchids can be
overwhelming. I hate looking at a plant and feeling stupid. That has
never happened with anything else I've ever tried to grow.

Even though I've tried to pick up some hints and tips from the
newsgroup, I don't want to have to devote all my spare time studying
about orchids, but part of me feels that unless I learn all the
terminology and the history and the naming conventions, and everything
else, I'm never going to feel like I could confidently grow these
things, and that's a lot more than I was looking for when I bought a
simple, pretty houseplant.


You have a very difficult set of conditions, but not an insurmountable
one. Find a good seller of plants that has a good selection of
different plants. Preferrably one in your town or near to it. Make an
appointment to visit them, so they have plenty of time to work with you.
Make sure you buy a few plants, to make it worth their while, but I
promise it will be a better experience than you had at the show.


I might try that one of these days. It's a good suggestion. Although I
might have to visit a few greenhouses first during their general
opening hours, just to get a feeling about the place and the grower
and to decide if I really want to take that next step.
Rob


--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

da wrote:


Actually that's the approach I'm trying to take. I'm trying to trust
my instincts. I look for advice when I think I need it, but since a
lot of it is conflicting, I try to do what I think will work.

Far too many orchids are killed by people who read too many books.
Your approach is the best way to learn how to grow anything, not just
orchids. Observing the plant is the only way to know if it is doing
well. What matters is how a specific plant behaves in your specific
environment. Can't get that information from a book. Sure, you can get
some general ideas, but 'facts on the ground' always trump 'facts in the
book'.


I think the whole obligation to learn about orchids can be
overwhelming. I hate looking at a plant and feeling stupid. That has
never happened with anything else I've ever tried to grow.

Even though I've tried to pick up some hints and tips from the
newsgroup, I don't want to have to devote all my spare time studying
about orchids, but part of me feels that unless I learn all the
terminology and the history and the naming conventions, and everything
else, I'm never going to feel like I could confidently grow these
things, and that's a lot more than I was looking for when I bought a
simple, pretty houseplant.


You aren't under any obligation to learn a darn thing about orchids.
Don't let that stop you. All you need to learn is how to take care of
the plants you have. You don't need to know everything about orchids to
grow an orchid. Just like you don't have to know all of the (very very
many) philodendron species to grow a little green houseplant.
Orchid growing is like riding a bicycle. You can read all you want
about bicycles, and physics, and how asphalt reacts with knees, but
until you actually ride the bike a few times you aren't going to know
how. I know a lot of people who grow orchids that can't even spell
phalaenopsis, much less pronounce it. They do fine. The only time you
need to feel stupid is if you break off a flower spike or kill your
plant, and then only long enough to figure out why it happened and not
to do whatever stupid thing you did again.

Some people like to learn all of the esoterica of the plants they grow
(history, breeding, awards...). I'm one of those. But not everybody
cares that much. If all you want is a pretty flower and a healthy
plant, don't worry about it.

So, don't let an 'expert' talk you out of anything. What counts is
whether you like a flower or not. If you think it is pretty, and an
'expert' hates it, well, so what? If your plants bloom in dark corners,
and some expert says they need light, again, who cares?


How's that for a pep talk? *grin*

Rob
--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:16:59 -0400, Rob Halgren
wrote:

wrote:


Actually that's the approach I'm trying to take. I'm trying to trust
my instincts. I look for advice when I think I need it, but since a
lot of it is conflicting, I try to do what I think will work.

Far too many orchids are killed by people who read too many books.
Your approach is the best way to learn how to grow anything, not just
orchids. Observing the plant is the only way to know if it is doing
well. What matters is how a specific plant behaves in your specific
environment. Can't get that information from a book. Sure, you can get
some general ideas, but 'facts on the ground' always trump 'facts in the
book'.


I think the whole obligation to learn about orchids can be
overwhelming. I hate looking at a plant and feeling stupid. That has
never happened with anything else I've ever tried to grow.

Even though I've tried to pick up some hints and tips from the
newsgroup, I don't want to have to devote all my spare time studying
about orchids, but part of me feels that unless I learn all the
terminology and the history and the naming conventions, and everything
else, I'm never going to feel like I could confidently grow these
things, and that's a lot more than I was looking for when I bought a
simple, pretty houseplant.


You aren't under any obligation to learn a darn thing about orchids.
Don't let that stop you. All you need to learn is how to take care of
the plants you have. You don't need to know everything about orchids to
grow an orchid. Just like you don't have to know all of the (very very
many) philodendron species to grow a little green houseplant.
Orchid growing is like riding a bicycle. You can read all you want
about bicycles, and physics, and how asphalt reacts with knees, but
until you actually ride the bike a few times you aren't going to know
how. I know a lot of people who grow orchids that can't even spell
phalaenopsis, much less pronounce it. They do fine. The only time you
need to feel stupid is if you break off a flower spike or kill your
plant, and then only long enough to figure out why it happened and not
to do whatever stupid thing you did again.

Some people like to learn all of the esoterica of the plants they grow
(history, breeding, awards...). I'm one of those. But not everybody
cares that much. If all you want is a pretty flower and a healthy
plant, don't worry about it.

So, don't let an 'expert' talk you out of anything. What counts is
whether you like a flower or not. If you think it is pretty, and an
'expert' hates it, well, so what? If your plants bloom in dark corners,
and some expert says they need light, again, who cares?


How's that for a pep talk? *grin*

Rob
--

Actually it's pretty darned good. :-D

I'm pretty much determined to treat my orchid, just as I do my many
philodendrons. They are absolutely impossible to kill and have never
made me feel inadequate or caused me to run to a newsgroup seeking
advice. ;-) (Of course, I've never actually spent a dime on any of
them.)
--Vic

Kathy,

Actually I have repotted my own orchids ever since ... pretty much the time
when I posted that I did not do it myself :-). The first time I did it I
had major backpain afterwards because I made the mistake of doing the
repotting in the bathtub and bending over to do it. But when I realized that
mistake, it has been fairly easy to do it myself since then. I may still in
the future have a plant repotted in the plant nursery occasionally, since
the service is quite affordable and convenient, but it's not as hard to just
do it oneself as I originally thought.

Joanna

"K Barrett" wrote in message
...
How long ago did you stop paying someone to repot your orchids for you?

K Barrett

Vic,

I remembered the easy orchid for you.

It is Ludisia discolor. Grows well in low light, a loose potting mix (like
for your violets), doesn't need food, has beautiful foliage (purple or
burgundy with florescent orange stripes) and it blooms around January for a
couple months. Some don't care for the flowers but I do. It will get as big
as you let it and with low light the leaves get bigger (3" long x 2" wide)
and look luxurious.

If you find it, it should be inexpensive. Go to an Orchid Society meeting
and tell a few people you want one and you will probably connect with at
least a cutting. Yes , there is an orchid that will grow from a cutting. Put
it in a glass of water and pot when it grows roots.

Go to Orchidmall.com to find an Orchid Society near you.

Bob


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:16:59 -0400, Rob Halgren
wrote:

wrote:


Actually that's the approach I'm trying to take. I'm trying to trust
my instincts. I look for advice when I think I need it, but since a
lot of it is conflicting, I try to do what I think will work.

Far too many orchids are killed by people who read too many books.
Your approach is the best way to learn how to grow anything, not just
orchids. Observing the plant is the only way to know if it is doing
well. What matters is how a specific plant behaves in your specific
environment. Can't get that information from a book. Sure, you can get
some general ideas, but 'facts on the ground' always trump 'facts in the
book'.


I think the whole obligation to learn about orchids can be
overwhelming. I hate looking at a plant and feeling stupid. That has
never happened with anything else I've ever tried to grow.

Even though I've tried to pick up some hints and tips from the
newsgroup, I don't want to have to devote all my spare time studying
about orchids, but part of me feels that unless I learn all the
terminology and the history and the naming conventions, and everything
else, I'm never going to feel like I could confidently grow these
things, and that's a lot more than I was looking for when I bought a
simple, pretty houseplant.


You aren't under any obligation to learn a darn thing about orchids.
Don't let that stop you. All you need to learn is how to take care of
the plants you have. You don't need to know everything about orchids to
grow an orchid. Just like you don't have to know all of the (very very
many) philodendron species to grow a little green houseplant.
Orchid growing is like riding a bicycle. You can read all you want
about bicycles, and physics, and how asphalt reacts with knees, but
until you actually ride the bike a few times you aren't going to know
how. I know a lot of people who grow orchids that can't even spell
phalaenopsis, much less pronounce it. They do fine. The only time you
need to feel stupid is if you break off a flower spike or kill your
plant, and then only long enough to figure out why it happened and not
to do whatever stupid thing you did again.

Some people like to learn all of the esoterica of the plants they grow
(history, breeding, awards...). I'm one of those. But not everybody
cares that much. If all you want is a pretty flower and a healthy
plant, don't worry about it.

So, don't let an 'expert' talk you out of anything. What counts is
whether you like a flower or not. If you think it is pretty, and an
'expert' hates it, well, so what? If your plants bloom in dark corners,
and some expert says they need light, again, who cares?


How's that for a pep talk? *grin*

Rob
--

Actually it's pretty darned good. :-D

I'm pretty much determined to treat my orchid, just as I do my many
philodendrons. They are absolutely impossible to kill and have never
made me feel inadequate or caused me to run to a newsgroup seeking
advice. ;-) (Of course, I've never actually spent a dime on any of
them.)
--Vic

So why don't people think that, say, Pothos, are "difficult"? They take a
lot more maintenance than most orchids ... Kenni

"Xi Wang" wrote in message
news:ewYbe.1144533$Xk.714648@pd7tw3no...
I too have had similar experiences. I think in part though, it's due to
the fact that a lot of people just don't do their homework as well.
Orchids are easy, but only if you put _some_ effort into it, and learn
about their culture. Commonly, a person buys an orchid from HD or
Wal-mart...etc, over waters, kills the thing, and never bothers to find
out more, and then just go on to assume, based on that sole experience,
that orchids are hard to care for, and that they suck at it. In time
this will change, but it will be a long time I imagine.

I can't remember where, but I heard an anecdote one time which was
something along the lines of one has to kill 100+ orchids before
becoming good at caring for them, and getting the hang of things. That
number may be a tad high, but even if it was 10 orchids, well, during
that time, the owner is probably thinking with each death how futile it
is for them.

Cheers,
Xi

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:42:40 -0500, "Bob Walsh"
wrote:

Vic,

I remembered the easy orchid for you.

It is Ludisia discolor. Grows well in low light, a loose potting mix (like
for your violets), doesn't need food, has beautiful foliage (purple or
burgundy with florescent orange stripes) and it blooms around January for a
couple months. Some don't care for the flowers but I do. It will get as big
as you let it and with low light the leaves get bigger (3" long x 2" wide)
and look luxurious.

If you find it, it should be inexpensive. Go to an Orchid Society meeting
and tell a few people you want one and you will probably connect with at
least a cutting. Yes , there is an orchid that will grow from a cutting. Put
it in a glass of water and pot when it grows roots.

Go to Orchidmall.com to find an Orchid Society near you.

Bob


Thanks Bob,
I'll keep it in mind the next time I go orchid shopping, although I
think I still have my heart on a big, showy Cattleya, but it's human
nature to want what we can't (or shouldn't) have. g
--Vic

Mick,

I couldn't have said it better, and that's quite an admission from me, LOL.
It is sad when people decide that they are incapable, because the decision
is self fulfilling. The best work I ever did in my life was to write and
facilitate workshops to get people off their defeated butts.

Bless my late Dad, who taught me that the only thing I wouldn't be able to
do in life would be p**ing standing up!

Diana

Diana,

I am quite moved by your admission... I am going to pee on the next person
that says Orchids are impossible to grow.

Mick

=========================

"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
nk.net...
Mick,

I couldn't have said it better, and that's quite an admission from me,
LOL.
It is sad when people decide that they are incapable, because the decision
is self fulfilling. The best work I ever did in my life was to write and
facilitate workshops to get people off their defeated butts.

Bless my late Dad, who taught me that the only thing I wouldn't be able to
do in life would be p**ing standing up!

Diana

Another 2 cents' worth: For folks who get infected with the "passion,"
orchids are wonderful because there is indeed always more one can learn
about them. But for those who just want pretty flowers on easy-to-grow
plants, we were able to boil down our "culture sheet" for all 5 of the major
tribes that we carry [Catts, Dens, Phals, and Vandas] to a one-page
sheet --granted, it is double-sided, but still G -- and if you are only
doing Phals, you only need to read 1/5 of it. So far, we have good reported
success from those following those relatively short directions. If you
email me directly, I'll send you one [can you accept WordPerfect docs?]
--
Kenni Judd
Juno Beach Orchids
http://www.jborchids.com




wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:36:11 -0400, Rob Halgren
wrote:

wrote:

When I tried talking to vendors, I'd tell them "I'm new to this but I
like that plant. What conditions does it need?" Then they would
proceed to tell me that I had the wrong facing window, or the wrong
room conditions. They also told me the plant wouldn't likely bloom for
me, or wouldn't bloom for two, three, four, etc. years.
Hmm.. Well, that shouldn't happen. I don't know many vendors (around
here, at least) who would have done that. There is a bit of a problem
at shows, especially when the sales area is very busy, we don't always
have time to give a detailed answer. That might be what happened to
you. That is why I put my website on my tags, I usually tell people
with more questions than I have time to answer to drop me an e-mail.

I found most of the vendors willing to talk and to answer my
questions, so I don't think it was a time issue. Most just weren't
very encouraging. As soon as I said "rookie with a north facing
window" I think most of them just decided I wasn't worth the trouble.
I can understand them not wanting to sell a plant that isn't going to
survive. That has the potential to harm their reputation or possible
future sales.

I've just taken a quick look at your site. Your descriptions seem nice
and helpful.


The few vendors who tried to convince me to buy plants tried way too
hard. They really believed in the hard sell and basically told me
that it would grow no matter what There seemed to be no middle ground
-- especially since a vendor selling an identical plant a couple
spaces over would tell me point blank that I'd just likely kill it. So
even though I was almost ready to buy another plant, I walked away
empty handed (except for a small bag of fertilizer). Actually even
buying that was frustrating because every vendor told me I needed a
different strength/type/numbers (10-30-10, 20-20-20 etc.) of
fertilizer or that I needed two or three different types (one for
general growth, one for blooming, one for something else, etc.).

I don't buy from hard sell type vendors either. I just don't believe
in that. Somebody who is selling a plant, especially to somebody who is
a professed beginner, should make a point of finding something that will
work for you. If they don't have a suitable plant (many vendors
specialize in things that might only grow in a cloud forest, for
example), they should just tell you that and perhaps point you to
another vendor who has a bunch of what would work for you.


Even following the discussions on this group is off-putting. I just
have a normal apartment. I don't have grow lights or plant-specific
humidifiers or hydroponic trays. My room temperature stays pretty
constant -- I don't have 10 or 15 degree differences between day and
night temperatures. As far as I can tell my plant shouldn't be growing
at all, especially since I only have one north facing window that
isn't shaded by a balcony or doesn't have a window unit
heater/airconditioner blowing under it. Added to those limitations, I
constantly read about people who have had plants for years that
haven't bloomed or rebloomed for them, and it all gets a bit
discouraging.


I'll tell you a little known secret... There isn't any one way to grow
an orchid. There, I've broken the code. I would give my grandmother
(who had a bright green thumb) an orchid a few times a year, and she
would grow them in absolutely the opposite way I would suggest. Dark
corners, sitting in saucers of water, no food... They grew like weeds.

Actually that's the approach I'm trying to take. I'm trying to trust
my instincts. I look for advice when I think I need it, but since a
lot of it is conflicting, I try to do what I think will work.

I think the whole obligation to learn about orchids can be
overwhelming. I hate looking at a plant and feeling stupid. That has
never happened with anything else I've ever tried to grow.

Even though I've tried to pick up some hints and tips from the
newsgroup, I don't want to have to devote all my spare time studying
about orchids, but part of me feels that unless I learn all the
terminology and the history and the naming conventions, and everything
else, I'm never going to feel like I could confidently grow these
things, and that's a lot more than I was looking for when I bought a
simple, pretty houseplant.


You have a very difficult set of conditions, but not an insurmountable
one. Find a good seller of plants that has a good selection of
different plants. Preferrably one in your town or near to it. Make an
appointment to visit them, so they have plenty of time to work with you.
Make sure you buy a few plants, to make it worth their while, but I
promise it will be a better experience than you had at the show.


I might try that one of these days. It's a good suggestion. Although I
might have to visit a few greenhouses first during their general
opening hours, just to get a feeling about the place and the grower
and to decide if I really want to take that next step.
Rob


--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

There are lots of people who have orchids for sale that do know how to grow
them, quite well. It's just that they are nurseries, rather than hardware
stores.
--
Kenni Judd
Juno Beach Orchids
http://www.jborchids.com

"dusty" wrote in message
...
"J Fortuna" wrote in
news:rxVbe.16734$yc.13891@trnddc07:

Joanna

Well Joanna I think it will only happen when the people who sell them gain
some inkling of how to grow them. People as in management. Associates are
required to do what they are told and not allowed by management to think
for themselves. I've been around to most of the retailers like Target,
Lowes, Home Depot, Franks Nursery, Target, Kmart and Trader Joes. The only
place I found that had some idea of how to care for them was Franks
Nursery
where they kept culture sheets handy for the customers. The worst places
(in order of ignorance) are all #1 Home Depot = over watering (plants
drown
in their plastic/fancy containers or put into half full trays of water.)
#2 Target drownings on a regular bases (fancy containers without drain
holes) #3Lowes plants are either over watered or never watered.
So you can see that by the time most people buy these plants they are
already on their way to being dead.
But then there's people like me that prey on that ignorance and improve my
orchid collection at the discount self.
signed sucker for $ discount shelf.

Grow well and bloom magnificently
Dusty

Group,

Orchids is fun. Orchids is addictive. Orchids be beautiful. Orchids not be
tough to grow. Orchids be best bought from reputable growers, not hardware
stores, unless you really knows your stuff and can be sort out the bad ones.
Me thinks that our local growers is better than the ones Vic has met.

End of grammar lesson. Scuse me. We 'Orthened' today and I think I have
brain damage.

DK

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:00:32 -0400, "Kenni Judd"
wrote:

Another 2 cents' worth: For folks who get infected with the "passion,"
orchids are wonderful because there is indeed always more one can learn
about them. But for those who just want pretty flowers on easy-to-grow
plants, we were able to boil down our "culture sheet" for all 5 of the major
tribes that we carry [Catts, Dens, Phals, and Vandas] to a one-page
sheet --granted, it is double-sided, but still G -- and if you are only
doing Phals, you only need to read 1/5 of it. So far, we have good reported
success from those following those relatively short directions. If you
email me directly, I'll send you one [can you accept WordPerfect docs?]
--
Kenni Judd
Juno Beach Orchids
http://www.jborchids.com



Hi Kenni,

Well if you feel like e-mailing the sheet without making a sale, my
e-mail address works -- as long as you drop the "nada" from Canada
(i.e. just "yahoo.ca").

You've got some tempting sounding plants in your Special section. I
wish you were closer by, so I could stop in and see them for myself.
--Vic

Bob,

I don't dispute your recommendation, but I have ~70 orchids, and Ludisia
discolor is the plant I've had the *least* success with! It's the only
terrestrial in my collection. I'll try repotting what's left of mine
tomorrow in a loose mix as you suggest -- it was in dense soil when I
purchased it 12 months ago at a society auction.

I never cease to be amazed at the range of culture advice I receive.
When I asked for Ludisia discolor help at a recent orchid society
meeting I was told to move it into Cattleya-level light!

John

Bob Walsh wrote:
Vic,

I remembered the easy orchid for you.

It is Ludisia discolor. Grows well in low light, a loose potting mix (like
for your violets), doesn't need food, has beautiful foliage (purple or
burgundy with florescent orange stripes) and it blooms around January for a
couple months. Some don't care for the flowers but I do. It will get as big
as you let it and with low light the leaves get bigger (3" long x 2" wide)
and look luxurious.

If you find it, it should be inexpensive. Go to an Orchid Society meeting
and tell a few people you want one and you will probably connect with at
least a cutting. Yes , there is an orchid that will grow from a cutting. Put
it in a glass of water and pot when it grows roots.

Go to Orchidmall.com to find an Orchid Society near you.

Bob


wrote in message
...

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:16:59 -0400, Rob Halgren
wrote:


wrote:


Actually that's the approach I'm trying to take. I'm trying to trust
my instincts. I look for advice when I think I need it, but since a
lot of it is conflicting, I try to do what I think will work.

Far too many orchids are killed by people who read too many books.
Your approach is the best way to learn how to grow anything, not just
orchids. Observing the plant is the only way to know if it is doing
well. What matters is how a specific plant behaves in your specific
environment. Can't get that information from a book. Sure, you can get
some general ideas, but 'facts on the ground' always trump 'facts in the
book'.


I think the whole obligation to learn about orchids can be
overwhelming. I hate looking at a plant and feeling stupid. That has
never happened with anything else I've ever tried to grow.

Even though I've tried to pick up some hints and tips from the
newsgroup, I don't want to have to devote all my spare time studying
about orchids, but part of me feels that unless I learn all the
terminology and the history and the naming conventions, and everything
else, I'm never going to feel like I could confidently grow these
things, and that's a lot more than I was looking for when I bought a
simple, pretty houseplant.


You aren't under any obligation to learn a darn thing about orchids.
Don't let that stop you. All you need to learn is how to take care of
the plants you have. You don't need to know everything about orchids to
grow an orchid. Just like you don't have to know all of the (very very
many) philodendron species to grow a little green houseplant.
Orchid growing is like riding a bicycle. You can read all you want
about bicycles, and physics, and how asphalt reacts with knees, but
until you actually ride the bike a few times you aren't going to know
how. I know a lot of people who grow orchids that can't even spell
phalaenopsis, much less pronounce it. They do fine. The only time you
need to feel stupid is if you break off a flower spike or kill your
plant, and then only long enough to figure out why it happened and not
to do whatever stupid thing you did again.

Some people like to learn all of the esoterica of the plants they grow
(history, breeding, awards...). I'm one of those. But not everybody
cares that much. If all you want is a pretty flower and a healthy
plant, don't worry about it.

So, don't let an 'expert' talk you out of anything. What counts is
whether you like a flower or not. If you think it is pretty, and an
'expert' hates it, well, so what? If your plants bloom in dark corners,
and some expert says they need light, again, who cares?


How's that for a pep talk? *grin*

Rob
--

Actually it's pretty darned good. :-D

I'm pretty much determined to treat my orchid, just as I do my many
philodendrons. They are absolutely impossible to kill and have never
made me feel inadequate or caused me to run to a newsgroup seeking
advice. ;-) (Of course, I've never actually spent a dime on any of
them.)
--Vic

John,

You can throw some orchid mix in with it to keep it looser. Mine looks to be
in a potting mix with a fair amount of small perlite in it. Jay's site:
http://www.orchidspecies.com/ludiscolor.htm
recommends potting soil and 50% bark and also says heavy shade. If the light
is too bright the leaves turn orange and lose their stripes.

Bob

"John DeGood" wrote in message
...
Bob,

I don't dispute your recommendation, but I have ~70 orchids, and Ludisia
discolor is the plant I've had the *least* success with! It's the only
terrestrial in my collection. I'll try repotting what's left of mine
tomorrow in a loose mix as you suggest -- it was in dense soil when I
purchased it 12 months ago at a society auction.

I never cease to be amazed at the range of culture advice I receive. When
I asked for Ludisia discolor help at a recent orchid society meeting I was
told to move it into Cattleya-level light!

John

Bob Walsh wrote:
Vic,

I remembered the easy orchid for you.

It is Ludisia discolor. Grows well in low light, a loose potting mix
(like for your violets), doesn't need food, has beautiful foliage (purple
or burgundy with florescent orange stripes) and it blooms around January
for a couple months. Some don't care for the flowers but I do. It will
get as big as you let it and with low light the leaves get bigger (3"
long x 2" wide) and look luxurious.

If you find it, it should be inexpensive. Go to an Orchid Society meeting
and tell a few people you want one and you will probably connect with at
least a cutting. Yes , there is an orchid that will grow from a cutting.
Put it in a glass of water and pot when it grows roots.

Go to Orchidmall.com to find an Orchid Society near you.

Bob


wrote in message
...

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:16:59 -0400, Rob Halgren
wrote:


wrote:


Actually that's the approach I'm trying to take. I'm trying to trust
my instincts. I look for advice when I think I need it, but since a
lot of it is conflicting, I try to do what I think will work.

Far too many orchids are killed by people who read too many books.
Your approach is the best way to learn how to grow anything, not just
orchids. Observing the plant is the only way to know if it is doing
well. What matters is how a specific plant behaves in your specific
environment. Can't get that information from a book. Sure, you can get
some general ideas, but 'facts on the ground' always trump 'facts in the
book'.


I think the whole obligation to learn about orchids can be
overwhelming. I hate looking at a plant and feeling stupid. That has
never happened with anything else I've ever tried to grow.

Even though I've tried to pick up some hints and tips from the
newsgroup, I don't want to have to devote all my spare time studying
about orchids, but part of me feels that unless I learn all the
terminology and the history and the naming conventions, and everything
else, I'm never going to feel like I could confidently grow these
things, and that's a lot more than I was looking for when I bought a
simple, pretty houseplant.


You aren't under any obligation to learn a darn thing about orchids.
Don't let that stop you. All you need to learn is how to take care of
the plants you have. You don't need to know everything about orchids to
grow an orchid. Just like you don't have to know all of the (very very
many) philodendron species to grow a little green houseplant.
Orchid growing is like riding a bicycle. You can read all you want
about bicycles, and physics, and how asphalt reacts with knees, but
until you actually ride the bike a few times you aren't going to know
how. I know a lot of people who grow orchids that can't even spell
phalaenopsis, much less pronounce it. They do fine. The only time you
need to feel stupid is if you break off a flower spike or kill your
plant, and then only long enough to figure out why it happened and not
to do whatever stupid thing you did again.

Some people like to learn all of the esoterica of the plants they grow
(history, breeding, awards...). I'm one of those. But not everybody
cares that much. If all you want is a pretty flower and a healthy
plant, don't worry about it.

So, don't let an 'expert' talk you out of anything. What counts is
whether you like a flower or not. If you think it is pretty, and an
'expert' hates it, well, so what? If your plants bloom in dark corners,
and some expert says they need light, again, who cares?


How's that for a pep talk? *grin*

Rob
--

Actually it's pretty darned good. :-D

I'm pretty much determined to treat my orchid, just as I do my many
philodendrons. They are absolutely impossible to kill and have never
made me feel inadequate or caused me to run to a newsgroup seeking
advice. ;-) (Of course, I've never actually spent a dime on any of
them.)
--Vic

Thanks Bob, I appreciate the advice. Hopefully I'll be able to save my
plant. It's rather embarrassing to fail growing an "easy" orchid.

A speaker at our orchid society meeting a few months ago remarked that
he had never killed an orchid. However, he said, some of his plants had
committed suicide. :-)

John

Bob Walsh wrote:
John,

You can throw some orchid mix in with it to keep it looser. Mine looks to be
in a potting mix with a fair amount of small perlite in it. Jay's site:
http://www.orchidspecies.com/ludiscolor.htm
recommends potting soil and 50% bark and also says heavy shade. If the light
is too bright the leaves turn orange and lose their stripes.

Bob

"John DeGood" wrote in message
...

Bob,

I don't dispute your recommendation, but I have ~70 orchids, and Ludisia
discolor is the plant I've had the *least* success with! It's the only
terrestrial in my collection. I'll try repotting what's left of mine
tomorrow in a loose mix as you suggest -- it was in dense soil when I
purchased it 12 months ago at a society auction.

I never cease to be amazed at the range of culture advice I receive. When
I asked for Ludisia discolor help at a recent orchid society meeting I was
told to move it into Cattleya-level light!

John

Bob Walsh wrote:

Vic,

I remembered the easy orchid for you.

It is Ludisia discolor. Grows well in low light, a loose potting mix
(like for your violets), doesn't need food, has beautiful foliage (purple
or burgundy with florescent orange stripes) and it blooms around January
for a couple months. Some don't care for the flowers but I do. It will
get as big as you let it and with low light the leaves get bigger (3"
long x 2" wide) and look luxurious.

If you find it, it should be inexpensive. Go to an Orchid Society meeting
and tell a few people you want one and you will probably connect with at
least a cutting. Yes , there is an orchid that will grow from a cutting.
Put it in a glass of water and pot when it grows roots.

Go to Orchidmall.com to find an Orchid Society near you.

Bob


wrote in message
...


On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:16:59 -0400, Rob Halgren
wrote:



wrote:



Actually that's the approach I'm trying to take. I'm trying to trust
my instincts. I look for advice when I think I need it, but since a
lot of it is conflicting, I try to do what I think will work.

Far too many orchids are killed by people who read too many books.
Your approach is the best way to learn how to grow anything, not just
orchids. Observing the plant is the only way to know if it is doing
well. What matters is how a specific plant behaves in your specific
environment. Can't get that information from a book. Sure, you can get
some general ideas, but 'facts on the ground' always trump 'facts in the
book'.



I think the whole obligation to learn about orchids can be
overwhelming. I hate looking at a plant and feeling stupid. That has
never happened with anything else I've ever tried to grow.

Even though I've tried to pick up some hints and tips from the
newsgroup, I don't want to have to devote all my spare time studying
about orchids, but part of me feels that unless I learn all the
terminology and the history and the naming conventions, and everything
else, I'm never going to feel like I could confidently grow these
things, and that's a lot more than I was looking for when I bought a
simple, pretty houseplant.


You aren't under any obligation to learn a darn thing about orchids.
Don't let that stop you. All you need to learn is how to take care of
the plants you have. You don't need to know everything about orchids to
grow an orchid. Just like you don't have to know all of the (very very
many) philodendron species to grow a little green houseplant.
Orchid growing is like riding a bicycle. You can read all you want
about bicycles, and physics, and how asphalt reacts with knees, but
until you actually ride the bike a few times you aren't going to know
how. I know a lot of people who grow orchids that can't even spell
phalaenopsis, much less pronounce it. They do fine. The only time you
need to feel stupid is if you break off a flower spike or kill your
plant, and then only long enough to figure out why it happened and not
to do whatever stupid thing you did again.

Some people like to learn all of the esoterica of the plants they grow
(history, breeding, awards...). I'm one of those. But not everybody
cares that much. If all you want is a pretty flower and a healthy
plant, don't worry about it.

So, don't let an 'expert' talk you out of anything. What counts is
whether you like a flower or not. If you think it is pretty, and an
'expert' hates it, well, so what? If your plants bloom in dark corners,
and some expert says they need light, again, who cares?


How's that for a pep talk? *grin*

Rob
--

Actually it's pretty darned good. :-D

I'm pretty much determined to treat my orchid, just as I do my many
philodendrons. They are absolutely impossible to kill and have never
made me feel inadequate or caused me to run to a newsgroup seeking
advice. ;-) (Of course, I've never actually spent a dime on any of
them.)
--Vic

Kenni,

Because of the pathos involved in raising pothos.

Mick

================


"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...
So why don't people think that, say, Pothos, are "difficult"? They take a
lot more maintenance than most orchids ... Kenni