The Breedersons revisited
 

Some may remember that I have been ranting about my charming
Breederson neighbours lately. Here is an update:

Yay 1: One of the problems that I had was that the kids were playing
on a large earthwork levee directly behind my house, and using it to
slide down into a pond of filthy water with a boogie board. I was
worried that someone was inevitably going to hurt themselves. A couple
of phone calls to the appropriate authorities, and the pond has been
completely fenced off, conveniently preventing access to our back
fence as well.

Yay 2: On Friday, a large "FOR LEASE" sign was placed in front of the
house next door. The Breedersons are moving out!

Some days, I almost think there is a $deity.

Geodyne

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article , Geodyne
writes:

Some may remember that I have been ranting about my charming
Breederson neighbours lately. Here is an update:

Yay 1: One of the problems that I had was that the kids were playing
on a large earthwork levee directly behind my house, and using it to
slide down into a pond of filthy water with a boogie board. I was
worried that someone was inevitably going to hurt themselves. A couple
of phone calls to the appropriate authorities, and the pond has been
completely fenced off, conveniently preventing access to our back
fence as well.

Yay 2: On Friday, a large "FOR LEASE" sign was placed in front of the
house next door. The Breedersons are moving out!

Some days, I almost think there is a $deity.

Geodyne

Is their plot a good plot for growing stuff? Perhaps somebody on this
newsgroup would be interested in moving next door, so you could start a little
community.
:-)


David Lloyd

The Breedersons revisited
 

On 07 Mar 2004 11:50:08 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:

Is their plot a good plot for growing stuff? Perhaps somebody on this
newsgroup would be interested in moving next door, so you could start a little
community.
:-)
Heh. I'd love that - someone to do something with the useless expanses
of lawn in the area. I live in an area that needs a bit more
permaculture in it!

Apologies, because I posted this to the wrong group. I deleted the
post, but obviously not before it had been propagated.

Geodyne

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article , Geodyne
writes:

On 07 Mar 2004 11:50:08 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:

Is their plot a good plot for growing stuff? Perhaps somebody on this
newsgroup would be interested in moving next door, so you could start a
little
community.
:-)
Heh. I'd love that - someone to do something with the useless expanses
of lawn in the area. I live in an area that needs a bit more
permaculture in it!

Apologies, because I posted this to the wrong group. I deleted the
post, but obviously not before it had been propagated.

Geodyne

Well, you could put an ad in you national permaculture magazine saying "New
neighbours wanted to turn useless expanses of lawn into permaculture paradise."
It can only do the environment good to get good gardens into the hands of
permaculturists. Hey, who knows, do it enough times and you could end up with
your own little community.

Where are you at? I bet it's not the UK :(


David Lloyd

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article , Geodyne
writes:

On 07 Mar 2004 11:50:08 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:

Is their plot a good plot for growing stuff? Perhaps somebody on this
newsgroup would be interested in moving next door, so you could start a
little
community.
:-)
Heh. I'd love that - someone to do something with the useless expanses
of lawn in the area. I live in an area that needs a bit more
permaculture in it!

Apologies, because I posted this to the wrong group. I deleted the
post, but obviously not before it had been propagated.

Geodyne

Well, you could put an ad in you national permaculture magazine saying "New
neighbours wanted to turn useless expanses of lawn into permaculture paradise."
It can only do the environment good to get good gardens into the hands of
permaculturists. Hey, who knows, do it enough times and you could end up with
your own little community.

Where are you at? I bet it's not the UK :(


David Lloyd

The Breedersons revisited
 

On 09 Mar 2004 21:57:37 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:

Where are you at? I bet it's not the UK :(

I'm afraid not. I'm in dry, dusty, no-fresh-water-to-spare-for-lawns
Australia. Sydney, to be precise.

I've been a regular on alt.pc for many years, but have been so busy
for the last year or two that my pc project (how enviro-friendly can I
make a 1/8th acre suburban block) has been on hold. However this
winter there are going to be a couple of major projects, the most
interesting being an attempt at a conventional entertainment area in a
pc manner, and putting a vegetable garden into the 1.5 m wide space
down the western side of my house. I'm going to experiment and see
just how unneccessary direct sunlight is for veggies inmy climate.

Geodyne

The Breedersons revisited
 

"Geodyne" wrote in message
...
On 09 Mar 2004 21:57:37 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:

I'm going to experiment and see just how unneccessary direct sunlight is for
veggies in my climate.

I can remember many years ago being told by a Permie that Australia has too
much sunlight and that most plants would be better off grown in some shade.
I have certainly found that any plants I have are much much happier under
green shadecloth.

Judanne in Tassie

The Breedersons revisited
 

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:42:00 GMT, "Homefinders"
wrote:


"Geodyne" wrote in message
.. .
On 09 Mar 2004 21:57:37 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:

I'm going to experiment and see just how unneccessary direct sunlight is for
veggies in my climate.

I can remember many years ago being told by a Permie that Australia has too
much sunlight and that most plants would be better off grown in some shade.
I have certainly found that any plants I have are much much happier under
green shadecloth.

That's been my experience over the years as well, especially in
summer. The most successful veggie garden I ever had was in partial
shade from a eucalypt throughout the hottest parts of the day. The sun
is just too hot in summer for the roots to keep up.

I'm going to put this garden against the fenceline so it's out from
under the eaves. I'll have a narrow path under the eaves between the
garden and the house. This way it will get the rain when it falls, and
there is no danger to the house from termites (and to the garden from
the pest controller). This approach is also going to lend itself
naturally to intensive "square foot" gardening, which is something I
have also had a lot of success with. I'll have two vertical tiers to
maximise the usage of space: a vine with a smaller ground-hugging
plant.

Geodyne

The Breedersons revisited
 

how do you keep up soil nutrients?
Stan
"Geodyne" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:42:00 GMT, "Homefinders"
wrote:


"Geodyne" wrote in message
.. .
On 09 Mar 2004 21:57:37 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:

I'm going to experiment and see just how unneccessary direct sunlight is
for
veggies in my climate.

I can remember many years ago being told by a Permie that Australia has
too
much sunlight and that most plants would be better off grown in some
shade.
I have certainly found that any plants I have are much much happier under
green shadecloth.

That's been my experience over the years as well, especially in
summer. The most successful veggie garden I ever had was in partial
shade from a eucalypt throughout the hottest parts of the day. The sun
is just too hot in summer for the roots to keep up.

I'm going to put this garden against the fenceline so it's out from
under the eaves. I'll have a narrow path under the eaves between the
garden and the house. This way it will get the rain when it falls, and
there is no danger to the house from termites (and to the garden from
the pest controller). This approach is also going to lend itself
naturally to intensive "square foot" gardening, which is something I
have also had a lot of success with. I'll have two vertical tiers to
maximise the usage of space: a vine with a smaller ground-hugging
plant.

Geodyne

The Breedersons revisited
 

how do you keep up soil nutrients?
Stan
"Geodyne" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:42:00 GMT, "Homefinders"
wrote:


"Geodyne" wrote in message
.. .
On 09 Mar 2004 21:57:37 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:

I'm going to experiment and see just how unneccessary direct sunlight is
for
veggies in my climate.

I can remember many years ago being told by a Permie that Australia has
too
much sunlight and that most plants would be better off grown in some
shade.
I have certainly found that any plants I have are much much happier under
green shadecloth.

That's been my experience over the years as well, especially in
summer. The most successful veggie garden I ever had was in partial
shade from a eucalypt throughout the hottest parts of the day. The sun
is just too hot in summer for the roots to keep up.

I'm going to put this garden against the fenceline so it's out from
under the eaves. I'll have a narrow path under the eaves between the
garden and the house. This way it will get the rain when it falls, and
there is no danger to the house from termites (and to the garden from
the pest controller). This approach is also going to lend itself
naturally to intensive "square foot" gardening, which is something I
have also had a lot of success with. I'll have two vertical tiers to
maximise the usage of space: a vine with a smaller ground-hugging
plant.

Geodyne

The Breedersons revisited
 

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "stan the man"
wrote:

how do you keep up soil nutrients?
Stan

Mulch. Lots and lots of mulch, which is essential to keep the moisture
in the soil in my climate anyway. I am partial to a mixture of
home-made compost, cow manure and lucerne hay. I also often bury
kitchen scraps directly into the garden to compost in situ, which
encourages the worms.

Someone has started a business recently in my area, selling composted
stable dressings (a well-composted combination of horse manure,
lucerne hay and wood shavings). They were clever enough to give me a
sample bag, and I'm impressed by what I see. I think I'll be trying
some of that soon.

I am also partial to using mushroom compost as a base and building the
garden up a few inches, because I am on a heavy clay soil. This means
that there is a lot of soil nutrition anyway.

Geodyne

The Breedersons revisited
 

Have you tried shade cloth over the plants in summer?
I am also interested in converting sandy areas into soil
Stan
"Geodyne" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:38:32 GMT, "stan the man"
wrote:

how do you keep up soil nutrients?
Stan

Mulch. Lots and lots of mulch, which is essential to keep the moisture
in the soil in my climate anyway. I am partial to a mixture of
home-made compost, cow manure and lucerne hay. I also often bury
kitchen scraps directly into the garden to compost in situ, which
encourages the worms.

Someone has started a business recently in my area, selling composted
stable dressings (a well-composted combination of horse manure,
lucerne hay and wood shavings). They were clever enough to give me a
sample bag, and I'm impressed by what I see. I think I'll be trying
some of that soon.

I am also partial to using mushroom compost as a base and building the
garden up a few inches, because I am on a heavy clay soil. This means
that there is a lot of soil nutrition anyway.

Geodyne

The Breedersons revisited
 

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 01:09:45 GMT, "stan the man"
wrote:

Have you tried shade cloth over the plants in summer?
I am also interested in converting sandy areas into soil

No I haven't, because I haven't needed to.

But if you're trying to get gardens happening on sandy soil, what I
have doen would work as well- bury as many veggie scraps in the soil
as you can, and incorporate lots of compost etc. It will help with
water retention.

Geodyne

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article , Geodyne
writes:

Subject: The Breedersons revisited
From: Geodyne
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:06:59 +1100

On 09 Mar 2004 21:57:37 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:

Where are you at? I bet it's not the UK :(

I'm afraid not. I'm in dry, dusty, no-fresh-water-to-spare-for-lawns
Australia. Sydney, to be precise.

I've been a regular on alt.pc for many years, but have been so busy
for the last year or two that my pc project (how enviro-friendly can I
make a 1/8th acre suburban block) has been on hold. However this
winter there are going to be a couple of major projects, the most
interesting being an attempt at a conventional entertainment area in a
pc manner, and putting a vegetable garden into the 1.5 m wide space
down the western side of my house. I'm going to experiment and see
just how unneccessary direct sunlight is for veggies inmy climate.

Geodyne

1/8th acre? I'd be luck to fit one lettuce in the space I have ! :(


David Lloyd

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article , Geodyne
writes:

Subject: The Breedersons revisited
From: Geodyne
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:06:59 +1100

On 09 Mar 2004 21:57:37 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:

Where are you at? I bet it's not the UK :(

I'm afraid not. I'm in dry, dusty, no-fresh-water-to-spare-for-lawns
Australia. Sydney, to be precise.

I've been a regular on alt.pc for many years, but have been so busy
for the last year or two that my pc project (how enviro-friendly can I
make a 1/8th acre suburban block) has been on hold. However this
winter there are going to be a couple of major projects, the most
interesting being an attempt at a conventional entertainment area in a
pc manner, and putting a vegetable garden into the 1.5 m wide space
down the western side of my house. I'm going to experiment and see
just how unneccessary direct sunlight is for veggies inmy climate.

Geodyne

1/8th acre? I'd be luck to fit one lettuce in the space I have ! :(


David Lloyd

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article , Geodyne
writes:

Subject: The Breedersons revisited
From: Geodyne
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:06:59 +1100

On 09 Mar 2004 21:57:37 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:

Where are you at? I bet it's not the UK :(

I'm afraid not. I'm in dry, dusty, no-fresh-water-to-spare-for-lawns
Australia. Sydney, to be precise.

I've been a regular on alt.pc for many years, but have been so busy
for the last year or two that my pc project (how enviro-friendly can I
make a 1/8th acre suburban block) has been on hold. However this
winter there are going to be a couple of major projects, the most
interesting being an attempt at a conventional entertainment area in a
pc manner, and putting a vegetable garden into the 1.5 m wide space
down the western side of my house. I'm going to experiment and see
just how unneccessary direct sunlight is for veggies inmy climate.

Geodyne

1/8th acre? I'd be luck to fit one lettuce in the space I have ! :(


David Lloyd

The Breedersons revisited
 

On 17 Mar 2004 18:49:59 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:


1/8th acre? I'd be luck to fit one lettuce in the space I have ! :(

You're in an apartment? There's still a lot you can do with an average
apartment balcony. You'd be surprised.

Technically, my arable area is 100 square metres, and as I can see a
need to sell the house in a few years (and due to opposition against
my veg garden from within the house), I'm trying to keep that area as
conventional as I can. Hence the next experiment of having the veg
garden down the side of the house.

Geodyne

The Breedersons revisited
 

On 17 Mar 2004 18:49:59 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:


1/8th acre? I'd be luck to fit one lettuce in the space I have ! :(

You're in an apartment? There's still a lot you can do with an average
apartment balcony. You'd be surprised.

Technically, my arable area is 100 square metres, and as I can see a
need to sell the house in a few years (and due to opposition against
my veg garden from within the house), I'm trying to keep that area as
conventional as I can. Hence the next experiment of having the veg
garden down the side of the house.

Geodyne

The Breedersons revisited
 

Geodyne wrote:

On 17 Mar 2004 18:49:59 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:


1/8th acre? I'd be luck to fit one lettuce in the space I have ! :(


You're in an apartment? There's still a lot you can do with an average
apartment balcony. You'd be surprised.


Yes indeed. I have 6 foam boxes on my balcony, and it's only about 4
square meters. Carrots, lettuce, peppermint, tomato, brocolli. It's
great. Makes me sick seeing all the wasted lawns around!

Cam

The Breedersons revisited
 

Geodyne wrote:

On 17 Mar 2004 18:49:59 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:


1/8th acre? I'd be luck to fit one lettuce in the space I have ! :(


You're in an apartment? There's still a lot you can do with an average
apartment balcony. You'd be surprised.


Yes indeed. I have 6 foam boxes on my balcony, and it's only about 4
square meters. Carrots, lettuce, peppermint, tomato, brocolli. It's
great. Makes me sick seeing all the wasted lawns around!

Cam

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article u, sqArk
writes:

Geodyne wrote:

On 17 Mar 2004 18:49:59 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:


1/8th acre? I'd be luck to fit one lettuce in the space I have ! :(


You're in an apartment? There's still a lot you can do with an average
apartment balcony. You'd be surprised.


Yes indeed. I have 6 foam boxes on my balcony, and it's only about 4
square meters. Carrots, lettuce, peppermint, tomato, brocolli. It's
great. Makes me sick seeing all the wasted lawns around!

Cam

I was exaggerating somewhat, of course. :) I didn't catch Geodyne's early tales
of woe about the neighbours from hell, but I guess I have a similar problem.
The people next door to me, or rather their kids and friends, seem to use my
garden as a public right of way and steal my apples. Makes me think it would be
better to sell up and buy a more suitable property away from such
self-centered, anti-social gits. Or I could just put up bigger fences, which I
don't particularly want to do because it would cut down the growing space and
what little space I have to sunbathe in private. :)

David Lloyd

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article u, sqArk
writes:

Geodyne wrote:

On 17 Mar 2004 18:49:59 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:


1/8th acre? I'd be luck to fit one lettuce in the space I have ! :(


You're in an apartment? There's still a lot you can do with an average
apartment balcony. You'd be surprised.


Yes indeed. I have 6 foam boxes on my balcony, and it's only about 4
square meters. Carrots, lettuce, peppermint, tomato, brocolli. It's
great. Makes me sick seeing all the wasted lawns around!

Cam

I was exaggerating somewhat, of course. :) I didn't catch Geodyne's early tales
of woe about the neighbours from hell, but I guess I have a similar problem.
The people next door to me, or rather their kids and friends, seem to use my
garden as a public right of way and steal my apples. Makes me think it would be
better to sell up and buy a more suitable property away from such
self-centered, anti-social gits. Or I could just put up bigger fences, which I
don't particularly want to do because it would cut down the growing space and
what little space I have to sunbathe in private. :)

David Lloyd

The Breedersons revisited
 

On 18 Mar 2004 19:00:17 GMT, acon (Sirius631) wrote:


You're in an apartment? There's still a lot you can do with an average
apartment balcony. You'd be surprised.


Yes indeed. I have 6 foam boxes on my balcony, and it's only about 4
square meters. Carrots, lettuce, peppermint, tomato, brocolli. It's
great. Makes me sick seeing all the wasted lawns around!

Carrots in a foam box....I am very impressed. They're such a long-term
vegetable.

Beans would be another really good, high-yield crop for that area.

I was exaggerating somewhat, of course. :) I didn't catch Geodyne's early tales
of woe about the neighbours from hell, but I guess I have a similar problem.

You didn't catch my early tales of woe about the neighbours from hell,
because they were *cough* onanentirelydifferentnewsgroup *cough*. :-)

The people next door to me, or rather their kids and friends, seem to use my
garden as a public right of way and steal my apples. Makes me think it would be
better to sell up and buy a more suitable property away from such
self-centered, anti-social gits. Or I could just put up bigger fences, which I
don't particularly want to do because it would cut down the growing space and
what little space I have to sunbathe in private. :)

As it's trespass, I would either inform the parents that it's not on,
or start calling the police, every time you catch them doing it. If
you talk to the parents, phrase it in terms of the childrens' safety
and see what comes out of that. After all, you spray those apples with
nasty, poisonous chemicals fairly regularly and without notice, right?
;-)

Geodyne

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article ,
Geodyne wrote:

I'm afraid not. I'm in dry, dusty, no-fresh-water-to-spare-for-lawns
Australia. Sydney, to be precise.

delurking for this thread

Where? I live in Lidcombe.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article ,
Geodyne wrote:

I'm afraid not. I'm in dry, dusty, no-fresh-water-to-spare-for-lawns
Australia. Sydney, to be precise.

delurking for this thread

Where? I live in Lidcombe.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article ,
acon (Sirius631) wrote:

The people next door to me, or rather their kids and friends, seem to use my
garden as a public right of way and steal my apples. Makes me think it would
be better to sell up and buy a more suitable property away from such
self-centered, anti-social gits. Or I could just put up bigger fences, which
I don't particularly want to do because it would cut down the growing
space and what little space I have to sunbathe in private. :)

Approach it as a pc problem. If these people produce anything worth having,
feed them your apples. If, OTOH, they are just feral pests, it might be time
to plant something thorny to deter them from coming in -- brambles, perhaps?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article ,
Geodyne wrote:

I'm afraid not. I'm in dry, dusty, no-fresh-water-to-spare-for-lawns
Australia. Sydney, to be precise.

delurking for this thread

Where? I live in Lidcombe.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article ,
acon (Sirius631) wrote:

The people next door to me, or rather their kids and friends, seem to use my
garden as a public right of way and steal my apples. Makes me think it would
be better to sell up and buy a more suitable property away from such
self-centered, anti-social gits. Or I could just put up bigger fences, which
I don't particularly want to do because it would cut down the growing
space and what little space I have to sunbathe in private. :)

Approach it as a pc problem. If these people produce anything worth having,
feed them your apples. If, OTOH, they are just feral pests, it might be time
to plant something thorny to deter them from coming in -- brambles, perhaps?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet

The Breedersons revisited
 

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:20:10 +1100, Chookie
wrote:

In article ,
Geodyne wrote:

I'm afraid not. I'm in dry, dusty, no-fresh-water-to-spare-for-lawns
Australia. Sydney, to be precise.

delurking for this thread

Where? I live in Lidcombe.

I'm in Glenwood, Chookie; so not far away at all. Although I spend
most of my time working in North Ryde at the moment.

Geodyne

The Breedersons revisited
 

In article , Chookie
writes:

In article ,
acon (Sirius631) wrote:

The people next door to me, or rather their kids and friends, seem to use
my
garden as a public right of way and steal my apples. Makes me think it
would
be better to sell up and buy a more suitable property away from such
self-centered, anti-social gits. Or I could just put up bigger fences,
which
I don't particularly want to do because it would cut down the growing
space and what little space I have to sunbathe in private. :)

Approach it as a pc problem. If these people produce anything worth having,
feed them your apples. If, OTOH, they are just feral pests, it might be time

to plant something thorny to deter them from coming in -- brambles, perhaps?

I'm trying to encourage nettles along the fence line, with the excuse that they
make a good fetilizer when soaked.


David Lloyd

The Breedersons revisited
 

g'day judanne,

i hadn't been following this thread.

when i lived in brissy the yard we ahd was a south-south/west aspect
adnt ehneighbour over the back on the east-north/eastern side ahd
these huge slash pines along the back fence, the result to me was very
much reduced sun period through winter this realy minimised or slowed
garden productivity right down from my experience. from all the garden
beds i had i could only use 1 which was something like 1/6 of what was
available.

iknow the heat of the noon day sune say from 10am to about 3pm up here
can affect plants production unless they get some shade in that period
but productivity from the gardens up here even with minimal water is
far greater than it ever was in brissy, higher rainfall area. by my
reckoning they need at least that direct sun up until about 9 or 10
o'clock, and in winter the brassicas etc.,. need all the sun they can
get with the shorter days adn the suns path being right up in the
norther sector.

eg.,. if i grow jap pumpkin from organic seeds i buy they wilt like
crazy and need heaps of water to get them through the middle of the
day out in full sun, but with the volunteers that grow they all but
produce on rain water they hardly wilt at all, don't know why this is.
but from my experiences vege's for the most need a good dose of sun as
well as shade, still developing the sahde here.

that's just how len sees it.

not my new web addy

snipped
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/