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Old 16-01-2005, 07:46 PM
len gardener
 
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yes fran,

exactly anyone on a rural block over about 30 acres is going to need
some sort of tractor, there are many things to use one for very seldom
i go out onto the property without the tractor like one bloke said to
me "the tractor is like your wifes purse is to her you rarely go
anywhere without it on the land"

and if you don't slash big breaks around you tree plantings the very
big risk is that you wil lose the lot to a grass fire should one come,
was talking to a bloke in gympie before chrissy they had spring fires
around gympie and that is waht happened to him he hadn't yet got his
spring slashing doen when a fire came while he was at work took a
couple of hundred planted trees.

we simply could not afford the loss as there is no cash to rpelace
them so the trractor is our insurance policy, did have a carry all but
hadta sell it to get some readies for bils only got the slasher
attachment now and a trailer.

we could opt for the local not very big shop but then there is much
they don't have like the fresh meat we want and there is no
supplementry medicines no chemist no doctor so for us it is the need
for a car to do the 30k to gympis once a week so we notice the cost of
fuel our tank sucks up 12 to 15 bucks a round trip, so no friverlous
trips for us if we forget something it stays forgotten. we used to
visit ted n sheean a bit and shop in maryborough but that is all out
now.

take care haven't heard anymoer about wes n ros yet.

len

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happy gardening
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"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
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  #32   Report Post  
Old 17-01-2005, 12:19 AM
len gardener
 
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don't agree all points insurances out in the aussie bush dearer in
cases than the city, rates cheaper but then you get to use a land fill
dump 2 times a week (take your own rubbish ways) fire levy the same as
the city fuel costs the same food in regional shops slightly higher at
times than the city no variety of stores to force competition. our
water doesn't come free or cheap we need pumps to pump it and they
have built in obsolescence. oh and we pay an annual levy for that
local tip.

we've got a couple of pommies living across the road they didn't have
mush water storage before they have increases it now but at one stage
they where buying in water to flush pee away in the tiolet then they
put a subersable pump into that to mist irrigate the cottage gardens
silly hey.

some otehr things to throw into the hat we drive on dirt roads modern
cars aren't built to cope with, when a tree falls across our fence
from the road reserv (council owned) they don't want to know about so
it falls back on the land owner to remove the tree and fix the fence.

still come down to you provide everything yourself out here if use
septic you pay for the water and the pump to flush it.

we built and eco' home so we don't need wood or cooling so we don't
cause wood fire pollution.

snipped
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.
  #33   Report Post  
Old 17-01-2005, 02:48 AM
Fran
 
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"len gardener" wrote in message
yeh fran,

straw is pretty dear up this way not sure but we stopped buying it 2
years ago think it might have got to 12 bucks.

this is mulch hay we buy good lucern hay is worth anywhere from 8.80
to 17 bucks.

but mulch hay ingeneral has gone from aroubnd 1.5 to 2 bucks 2 years
ago, it never goes down either funny that hey.


Well that price you have for straw is most surprising Len.

The cheapest form of any mulch round here is straw because it's so bloody
useless - no nutrients and it's just a waste product. Anything that would
be described as "hay" here is not rubbish as it still has good worm feeding
nutrient in it even if spoiled as animal food and thus it is still more
expensive than straw even if described as being "mulching hay".


  #34   Report Post  
Old 17-01-2005, 03:09 AM
Fran
 
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"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
from "Fran" contains these words:


And Len is quite right about rural living - it is far more expensive in
terms of daily costs. I pay about double the cost of groceries if I shop

in
the village vs getting in the car and going 30 kms (and fuel here has

also
recently blown out in cost).


Agreed so far as transport and shop prices for foods go, but in other
ways living in the sticks can be cheaper than urban /city life. Local
taxes and all insurances are cheaper, and in a cold climate, there's a
big saving in fuel costs from plenty of free wood for heating. Private
water and sewage systems (unavailable in suburbs/cities here) are far,
far cheaper than the charges for public water/sewage.


Well agreed that taxes are cheaper as are most of the insurances if one
lives in town, but wood is no longer either free or cheap anywhere within
coee of where most of us regular posters in Oz would live. Yes it can be
got in some cases but then the cost of taking the vehicle to get it,
acquiring and looking after the chain saw, time involved etc all adds up.
We gave up getting our own some years ago now as it was cheaper to buy it in
bulk and have a big truck bring it once a year - and that is when we have
lots of trees and lots of land available to us.

And as for water, well that one is a two edged sword in a dry country. As
Len mentioned pumps are often a problem and they also aren't free to run.
If anything goes wrong with one the difference between the cost of a year's
water rates in town and fixing/replacing the pump are gone in one trip to
the rural supplier/repairer, and if one has to buy a tank load of water well
that is certainly more than the cost on one years town rates (and in the
recent drought I heard of people paying up to $5,000 in one year for water
outside of town!!!! -about 5-10 times the cost of any town water rate pa.).

And I don't know that I'd agree about the cost of sewerage either unless you
are talking about ammortising (sp?) the cost over a lot of years (which in
Len's case he hasn't yet been able to do). Yes, it could perhaps be cheaper
(except for the ongoing mortgage cost which includes interest) if one bought
a place with it already installed but certainly not if one had to install it
oneself as it casts a packet to get the tank and the water supply to
connect to it and then have it all plumbed in - I reckone one would'nt get
much change out of about $10,000 from a start up. That would be a lot of
years of village rates/taxes.

The thing that does give me the pip though when I go to the bigger or big
smoke is how cheap things are. Like all stationery items, all shoes and
clothes and vegetables! Why bloody vegetables for heavens sake! They grow
in the sticks!

I think I should just take myself off to the big smoke more often and do a
shop till I drop exercise once a year and give the local shops the flick.
If the buggers don't support me by trying to keep their prices lower then I
dunno why I think I should keep supporting them all the time.



  #35   Report Post  
Old 17-01-2005, 03:17 AM
Fran
 
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"len gardener" wrote in message

some otehr things to throw into the hat we drive on dirt roads modern
cars aren't built to cope with, when a tree falls across our fence
from the road reserv (council owned) they don't want to know about so
it falls back on the land owner to remove the tree and fix the fence.


Len don't dall for that one! The council IS liable if a tree falls from
their land onto your land or fence.

We got 2 new gates and Council did the work to repair and replace the fence
and gates/gate posts when a tree growing on council land fell down
diagonally on top of the two old ratty gates. The old gates ended up in a V
shape and so were useless to keep stock in any more. When Himself rang
Council to see if they would do anything they didn't even blink and eye but
said that they'd be onto it straight away.

We expected to get a letter to tell us what they'd do but when we next went
out to the other farm they'd already done the repairs.







  #36   Report Post  
Old 17-01-2005, 07:50 AM
Bazil
 
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Geodyne wrote:

The Macquarie Island quake wasn't much smaller than the Aceh one though
Pete - 8.5, as compared to 8.9. The type of motion at Macquarie is very
different to that of the plate boundary in Indonesia, fortunately.


To expand on that for everyone's understanding, the Aceh earthquake was
a result of a release where two plates are colliding, with one going
below the other. Incredible forces until something gives. When it gave
way, a large section of ocean floor lifted, causing the tsunami. We know
the result. The Macquarie Island quake was a result of two plates moving
apart, and in that case there was no uplift to cause a tsunami. Not that
that earthquake wouldn't have caused massive damage if it was close to
population centres.

If the one in the Balleny Islands in Antarctica ever went off though -
those of us in SE Oz should all brace.


Brace or head for the hills???

Can you fill us in on the situation at Balleny Islands?

Another point (not to scare but just for a heads up), is that the Indian
Ocean tsunami was by no means a big one, as far as tsunamis go. Japan
has copped some nasty ones over time, the Krakatoa one was bigger and
the one in Alaska (northern pacific) in early 60's was quite a bit
bigger. The bummer about larger tsunamis is that twice the size is more
like an order of magnitude more powerful / destructive.

Bryan
  #37   Report Post  
Old 17-01-2005, 10:08 AM
len gardener
 
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yeh fran,

at first the straw started at around 6 bucks which i thought was a bit
rich then went to around 8 and then 12 that stopped us, nothing in
straw as you say only good for bedding for the chooks.

we used to get spoilt lucern hay for around 2.50 out ipswich way but
in brissy they wanted 6 bucks. once spoilt no good for fodder for
animals. when spoilt they call it mulch hay, even sugar cane tops in
smaller bails than the mulch hay got up to around 3 bucks i won't buy
it at that full of chemical residues anyway .

but at present we make all our own hay so no need to bring any from
off site.

len

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--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.
  #38   Report Post  
Old 17-01-2005, 10:11 AM
len gardener
 
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that's waht i reckon fran,

but this is what the shires employed tree cutter said, reckon i could
cause a bit of a stink somehow. hasn't happened yet.

snipped
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.
  #39   Report Post  
Old 17-01-2005, 10:31 AM
len gardener
 
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exactly fran,

buying a chain saw (not cheap) to collect and cut eucalypt timber with
si not for the feint hearted then the saw chain needs continual
sharpening unless you set up an expensive bench saw.

around here through winter you had to wait up to 3 weeks for water to
come they where run ragged, lots come out here and over look storage
capacity for water then they put in ground water polluting septic
systems that use their valuable water. they just can't help pushing
that button (what a mind set hey), we have a composting loo and grey
water goes to plants nothing wasted here and the material from the loo
well what can i say bloody great in the gardens. yes you don't get
much change from 10grand for most septics and some are dearer actually
i don't think they get any change. for that 3k for a composting loo
and 7k buys a lot of tanks well 4 X 5,400 gallon ones that is.

anothe thing as well a fire pump is needed with a trailer and tank we
can't offord one, then an emergency generator is needed if you get
caught in a long blackout ice isn't readily available near by you have
to save your food and you need to draw water, plus if there's a fire
what do you do if you have an electric fire pump, the list goes on.
and lots of this advice can't be gleened before you move to rural.

so you find it very rapidly that it can be very very expensive
exercise, we hope to set up an online business to help people in
looking for good land and to educate them about what moving to rural
realy means, it simply doesn't mean somewhere to run a couple of nags
for the kids and more room for the kids to make whoopee in. and no
bush spirit anymore well least ways not in qld all other folk out here
are here for their own ends and they pretty much keep to themselves,
some even turn phones off or down and won't answer them after about
11pm so pity help the neighbour who need urgent help hey? i sorta
remember better days in rural but like the degregated land that is all
gone.

because of a lack of stores there is also things that you can't get
when you want them.

take care fran

len

snipped
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.
  #40   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2005, 05:34 AM
Fran
 
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"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message

Well, for 18 years we used to cut 20 tons of hardwood every year.


I read this last night but for some reason it wasn't till this morning that
what you actually worte hit home.

What the hell were you doing with 20 tons of hardwood each year? We get 4
ton and that is for 6 months of fires?




  #41   Report Post  
Old 20-01-2005, 07:48 AM
Fran
 
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"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
from "Fran" contains these words:

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message


Well, for 18 years we used to cut 20 tons of hardwood every year.


I read this last night but for some reason it wasn't till this morning

that
what you actually worte hit home.


What the hell were you doing with 20 tons of hardwood each year?


For nine months of the year, the wood stove would be running 24 hours a
day, and would be lit nearly every evening in the other 3.The first one
we had, also heated all our water and ran hot-water radiators in every
room.


Yes I figured you burned wood for 24 hours a day and for a long time but
then we also use that 4 tons for heating water, cookinand running radiators
and that is for the full 6 months and we also burn another fire for at least
2 months of the coldest part of the year.

We get 4
ton and that is for 6 months of fires?


Yes, but you live in a continental climate with different winter and
summer conditions from our maritime one. The house was in an exposed
spot in a cold, windy part of Scotland with only three frost-free
months. Winter lows were usually in the mid-teens (C), coldest we
experienced was -24C.
In midwinter at this latitude, it's dark 16 hours a day (reduced solar
gain), during day the sun is very low on the horizon, and high wind and
rain are an almost constant cooling factor.

Throughout summer, the evening temperature in Scotland after a cloudy
day, is often cool enough to need a fire or heating of some kind.


I know you live in a poopy climate but then this area has also been known to
get frosts in every month of the year (including snow on Xmas day would you
believe!) and it gets cold here too - nothing as low as
-24 but it still gets down to about -9 in the nearest city so that is prolly
about -14 here. However, even keeping my fires roaring and the thermostat
on the highest I'd be hard pressed to burn more than that 4 tons for the 6
months. I was just curious as to what would get through 20 tons /year when
I thought we both had a similar domestic heating/cooking/water set up.


  #42   Report Post  
Old 23-01-2005, 01:04 PM
Chookie
 
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In article ,
Janet Baraclough wrote:

Agreed so far as transport and shop prices for foods go, but in other


Don't you live in a really tiny country? :-)

Here, transport is a HUGE cost for the rural areas. Petrol is dearer because
it has to be trucked in (and then you have to use a lot more to get anywhere),
food is dearer because it has to be trucked in... then factor in the effect of
low levels of competition! I'm guessing that I pay a little under $1/litre
here in Sydney, but I only use about 40 litres a week.

I certainly noticed the higher food prices when I was on holiday in Perth last
year -- there hasn't been a huge effect on Sydney food prices yet, at least
not the stuff that I buy. For example, I can buy a side of lamb from a
wholesale butcher for $6/kg. Two years ago it was $5.80/kg. OTOH retail
butchers charge amazingly -- lamb cutlets have roughly doubled in price in the
same period (I've seen them for $32/kg!). If I had no wholesale butcher near
me, I *would* have seen the difference in the meat budget.

ways living in the sticks can be cheaper than urban /city life. Local
taxes and all insurances are cheaper,


Not sure about this -- it's difficult to judge such things across different
countries. House insurance might not be cheaper in rural Aust. due to the
increased flood and fire risk in the country.

and in a cold climate, there's a
big saving in fuel costs from plenty of free wood for heating.


Um, yes, but Len isn't in a cooler climate! His heating needs would be quite
modest compared to yours.

Private
water and sewage systems (unavailable in suburbs/cities here) are far,
far cheaper than the charges for public water/sewage.


Again, this is a local thing. Water rates (which include sewerage) in
Australia are ridiculously low for city-dwellers and do not reflect the
(un)availability of the resource. Don't get me started on that one!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet
  #43   Report Post  
Old 24-01-2005, 06:22 AM
Farm1
 
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"Chookie" wrote in
Janet Baraclough wrote:

Agreed so far as transport and shop prices for foods go, but in other


Don't you live in a really tiny country? :-)


Hmmmm. It never, ever, feels smaller to me. It's may be tiny
geographically but boy is it packed with the most super interesting stuff -
acre for acre, I'd holiday in Britain over Oz any day of the week.

Here, transport is a HUGE cost for the rural areas. Petrol is dearer

because
it has to be trucked in (and then you have to use a lot more to get

anywhere),
food is dearer because it has to be trucked in... then factor in the

effect of
low levels of competition! I'm guessing that I pay a little under

$1/litre
here in Sydney, but I only use about 40 litres a week.


The highest price for petrol that I know about is about $1.50 somewhere in
teh bowels of NE South Oz, but I suspect that even that is cheaper than the
average price in the UK. Their prices are ludicrously high, so thankfully
the 4 hour trip from one side of the country to the other is so short. :-))

I certainly noticed the higher food prices when I was on holiday in Perth

last
year -- there hasn't been a huge effect on Sydney food prices yet, at

least
not the stuff that I buy. For example, I can buy a side of lamb from a
wholesale butcher for $6/kg. Two years ago it was $5.80/kg. OTOH retail
butchers charge amazingly -- lamb cutlets have roughly doubled in price in

the
same period (I've seen them for $32/kg!). If I had no wholesale butcher

near
me, I *would* have seen the difference in the meat budget.

ways living in the sticks can be cheaper than urban /city life. Local
taxes and all insurances are cheaper,


Not sure about this -- it's difficult to judge such things across

different
countries. House insurance might not be cheaper in rural Aust. due to the
increased flood and fire risk in the country.





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Old 05-02-2005, 08:57 AM
Chookie
 
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In article ,
Janet Baraclough wrote:

The message
from Chookie contains these words:

In article ,
Janet Baraclough wrote:


Agreed so far as transport and shop prices for foods go, but in other


Don't you live in a really tiny country? :-)


Yes, but its too crowded and cool to produce anywhere near enough
food to support its population. The vast majority of our food is
imported and has travelled thousands of miles from warmer climates. Once
it arrives, it still has to be distributed. All fuel here is very
heavily taxed. The further a UK location is from a
distribution/manufacturing centre, the more it costs to deliver food,
petrol and goods.


I hadn't thought about the cost of importation; that probably evens things up
a bit. Glad there are permies who are doing their bit for the
self-sufficiency of your food supply! But I still think our idea of "remote"
is probably a bit more remote than your idea -- unless "remote" to you is the
Falklands! What I mean is: assuming our cars have similar fuel efficiency, a
remote Aussie will still use much more petrol because they have further to
travel.

snip

I'm guessing that I pay a little under $1/litre
here in Sydney,


That's about 38 UK pence per litre. The city price in the UK, is 80
UK pence per litre, (over 2 AUS dollars per litre). The rural price
where I live, is 95 UK pence per litre.


Careful; you'd have to look at it as a percentage of the average wage, or some
other equalising factor. Our average wage is about AUD38K, according to our
Bureau of Statistics; would UKP 10K be near your average wage?

When in Aus a couple of years ago, we were amazed by how low all food
costs were compared to the UK.


I have heard Aussies complaining about the high cost of food in the UK. (Is
that why all teh extras on shows like The Bill look sickly?) Where did you
look at prices, btw? There is still a big cost difference between the food
prices I can get locally and the prices in (say) Oodnadatta. Land prices in
Sydney are, of course, ridiculous, and this is where we might be looking at
the swings and roundabouts. I remember a Frenchman told me a few years ago
that for the cost of the average house here, you could buy a chateau in
France! Presumably you would have to take servicing the mortgage over eating.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"In Melbourne there is plenty of vigour and eagerness, but there is
nothing worth being eager or vigorous about."
Francis Adams, The Australians, 1893.
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