#1   Report Post  
Old 09-05-2005, 01:32 PM
pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default Salinity

Hi Folks
As some of you know this is a subject quite dear to me because of the
amount of salinity in and around where I live.

I've stated before that I don't believe salinity is THE problem but
rather A symptom of poor soil structure, and I'm increasingly frustrated
when I look for info on how salinity is being managed or addressed.

Most if not all the sources I can find on the net are government
sponsored surveys which seem intent on telling me how bad salinity is
and why it's such a problem and how they will continue to develop models
to ascertain the extent of salinity and how to recognise it ...etc etc
etc ....... all this is necessary I'm sure for the "experts" to gain an
understanding of the so called problem and to help others understand its
devastating effects, and I have no doubt that there are many many people
receiving government grants to fund these surveys and refine their
models and salt mapping diagrams.

Almost all of the info is negative and depressing and virtually states
that we are doomed to be swallowed up by mountains of salt unless we do
something ... the trouble is I can't actually find anyone who IS doing
anything other than devising yet another model or salt map for continued
monitoring ...of course all at great expense in the form of grant
money which ultimately gets passed onto the public in the form of levies
and surcharges.

My question is this .... does anyone know of any information on the net
which shows positive results from methods which can be applied by the
everyday person ?.

Most of the farming resources I read understandably deal with enabling
the farmer to still get a return from salt affected land whilst using
techniques to reduce high water tables and salt content, but I think thy
never actually address the real issue of soil structure Most of the
horticultural areas seem to be on land that is unaffected by salt so
there never seems to be a push within the smaller acreage groups or
their growers cooperatives to address the issue ...its left to the
larger properties and their organisations SAFF, NFF etc because (I
presume) the effects are more noticeable and have the most damage
potential to our primary production.

I don't want to learn how to grow salt tolerant species I already know
what plants will grow in some of the worst effected areas... I want to
create soil that will grow anything that my climate, as dry as it is,
will allow me to grow ...

I'm talking about practical people doing practical, positive things
which have yielded results however small a particular favourite of mine
is the "Greening the desert" by Geoff Lawton

http://www.abc.net.au/northcoast/stories/s727970.htm#

There are both flash presentations and real media version links.

This is the sort of info I'm looking for, I'm already getting some
varied success from trying different things ...as some of you know from
my postings here .... but I'm always looking for others sources of info
.... no more reports, studies or models from well intentioned government
sponsored surveys ... I feel like I've read all of em.

I wonder if anyone would be interested if I put together a simple web
page wiv piccies of my modest efforts in the hopes of helping others ?

stay well, stay happy folks

Pete

  #2   Report Post  
Old 09-05-2005, 09:02 PM
len gardener
 
Posts: n/a
Default

g'day pete,

dunno if you will ever find a difinitive answer as the agancies tend
to hedge around the real cause in a cause and effect situation.

the best and only way i know of that nature had employed to keep the
salt table down was trees particularly the gum trees, so naturally any
rehabilitation that way is going to take a very long time to even
begin to work. at the very least probably somewhere up near 70 years.

that's just how i see it these are the damages caused by long term
european style agriculture on the fragile soils and systems of
australia. styles that are still being emplyed although i hear farmer
types saying that the tree are need they still folloow the same clear
fell folly.

i will help with the web page as best i can i'm sure we can help you
get something online.

glad to see you still about pete, remember when you use te return addy
delete SPAM before sending, glad to help where i can hey and i'm no
tree hugger if they weren't needed then why did nature grow them?

len

snipped
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.
  #3   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2005, 02:58 AM
pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Len thanks for the reply.

I think its well understood that deep rooted vegetation helps to lower
the water table which helps to reduce salinity within the immediate area.

I agree that past farming practices were/are not particularly suited to
the oz situation, but I don't buy into the argument that farmers are to
blame for the rising salt levels, some folks would have us believe that
farmers are hell bent on destroying the environment just to make a buck,
I say thats total BS, when us white folks landed here we used what we
knew, the tools and practices to grow food were what we brought with us
from our respective countries.

The early settlers had no way of knowing that the practices their
families had used for thousands of years would create any probs in this
new environment.

Dry land salinity was around then .... its not something that was
created by farmers as a result of bad practice, it may have been
worsened in areas which were sensitive and damaged by the early farming
techniques ...clear felling etc, but it's not the cause, if the soil
structure had been favourable to those farming practices we would be
hailing the farmers as environmental saviors ... remember they didnt
have soil tests, PH kits, salinity measuring or modeling tools, access
to seed other than what they or their peers brought with them or access
to specialised tools for minimum till, direct drilling ...there was no
permapine fence posts sold at the rural supplies ... all fence posts had
to be cut from the land, the house had to be built from timber from the
land .... even the roof shingles, thats no different than a
permaculturist clearing a patch of ground to use the timber to build a
chookhouse so that it creates a space for veggie growing nearby.... the
old "use the resources available" technique was the only technique they had.

The plows available were the moldboard type used for many many years
very effectively and pulled by horse or bullock of course on beautiful
friable soil the compaction was minimal, but used on the type of sodic
clays that are around many parts of Oz results in compaction and damage
that takes some serious restoration work .... but what else could they
use? ..... nothing, they used what they had and knew and they should be
applauded for the sheer determination and true grit they showed, instead
they are blamed for just about any problem we have.

Sure many many mistakes were made ...still are today ...even with our
highly paid consultants and computer modeling, our GPS systems and
special computer designed planning procedures and land management
techniques, we have world experts on water use, feed stocks, feed rates,
salinity, native tree experts, fungi experts, scientists doing
research into how much fat a sheep/cow/pig etc should have, we have
nutritionists working out the optimum feed to meat conversion,
agronomists working out the optimum fertiliser application rates ...and
the list goes on and on and on ......... and we STILL make mistakes ....
imagine the farmer disembarking onto Aussie soil in the 1800's with Wife
and kids, a cow, a horse or ox and a plough, enough woodworking tools to
cut and shape wood to make a house and enough seed and knowledge to grow
food till the next harvest ..... nope I don't ... can't put the blame
for mistakes on those folks they did what they had to do to survive ...
as it turned out those early practices were bad for the aussie soils and
climate.

Enter the era of "modern" farming, huge companies producing fertilisers,
herbicides, insecticides, the pre cleared land offering potential for
1000 acre paddocks and enormous potential for farming on a truly grand
scale ... the banks are throwing money at farmers to encourage them to
get bigger so that they can produce more and borrow more money to buy
bigger tractors, bigger and better ploughs, slashers, seeders ... the
fertiliser companies finding huge phosphate resources, telling farmers
your problems are solved ...spray this, spread that apply this and it
will increase your profits 10 fold...you can make oodles of cash ..the
banks like this idea and encourage more borrowing....

Then when things don't work out the scapegoat is the farmer ....

Buy a copy of "The stock journal" ... and tell me the type of adverts
that appear in there are not designed to lead ANY farmer ...ANY person
reading them ....to believe that every product on sale will " boost
production, increase yield, reduce invasive weeds, reduce fly strike,
eliminate soil erosion, contain stock better than ever before" .... and
on and on.

Don't blame the farmers .... they are as caught up in the system as we
as average consumers are caught up in the throw away, mass production,
built in obsolesance society that has emerged because we all believed
that "things made from plastic/Teflon/pvc etc was going to be cheaper
than wood/metal ..that computers would make things simpler and reduce
costs thereby reducing prices" .... and all the other hype that the
advertisers would have us believe.

To ask a farmer to completely abandon a practice that produces enough
return to keep his/her head above water every year and try techniques
that we as permaculturists, organic gardeners or just plain "interested
parties" think are great, is like telling someone who works in any other
field (pardon the pun) that their lifes work is totally wrong and
everything they are doing is ruining the country ...and WE have the
answer .... if we do that are we not as bad as the advertisers telling
the farmers that they are using the wrong spray if they are not using
OUR spray ?


Some of the land that is now mapped as the worst affected dryland
salinity areas have never, ever had any farming on them ... so how do
people presume that bad land management is to blame for the salt in
those areas?

There have always been inland lakes in Oz ... lakes that are saline, and
some much more saline than sea water the soils around those areas are
salty, the evaporation rates far in excess of the rainfall and the soil
structure usually ranging from silt to fine clay particles with no
organic content in them... and thats why I think that the answer to the
salt symptom is to create soil ...real soil which has water holding
capacity, organic content, available nutrients that the plants can
access and a structure that will withstand the harsh conditions and
erosive effects of the blistering sun and driving winds, only then will
we be able to grow the deep rooted veg needed to reduce the salt content.


But what do I know? nothing basically ... whats working for me could be
absolutely the wrong thing for the aussie environment ...just as those
early farmers found things which worked for them, which 200 years later
have been found to be the wrong things to do .....

All I know is I'm growing a bit of veg in very salty ground, nothing
really earth shattering is taking place, I'm adding organic content,
ensuring the areas get as much rainfall as they can by using any
contours and trying to use excess vegetation as mulch and to return
nutrients to those areas.

Now ...see ya made me rant on ... I wasn't gonna rant for once and
Now I have .....again ...sorry...again


End of rant
Pete
















len gardener wrote:
g'day pete,

dunno if you will ever find a difinitive answer as the agancies tend
to hedge around the real cause in a cause and effect situation.

the best and only way i know of that nature had employed to keep the
salt table down was trees particularly the gum trees, so naturally any
rehabilitation that way is going to take a very long time to even
begin to work. at the very least probably somewhere up near 70 years.

that's just how i see it these are the damages caused by long term
european style agriculture on the fragile soils and systems of
australia. styles that are still being emplyed although i hear farmer
types saying that the tree are need they still folloow the same clear
fell folly.

i will help with the web page as best i can i'm sure we can help you
get something online.

glad to see you still about pete, remember when you use te return addy
delete SPAM before sending, glad to help where i can hey and i'm no
tree hugger if they weren't needed then why did nature grow them?

len

snipped

  #4   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2005, 05:40 AM
Farm1
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"pete" wrote in message

Hi Folks


Hi Pete. Nice to see you again.

I've stated before that I don't believe salinity is THE problem but
rather A symptom of poor soil structure, and I'm increasingly frustrated
when I look for info on how salinity is being managed or addressed.


Pete I've mentioned these farms here befo
http://www.abc.net.au/landline/stories/s100812.htm

I know that one of the major problems at least one of these farms had was
salinity. somewhere I have a book on what was on those farms but I can't
lay my hands on it at the moment. It is fascinating reading and I can
strongly recommend it.


Most if not all the sources I can find on the net are government
sponsored surveys which seem intent on telling me how bad salinity is
and why it's such a problem and how they will continue to develop models
to ascertain the extent of salinity and how to recognise it ...etc etc
etc ....... all this is necessary I'm sure for the "experts" to gain an
understanding of the so called problem and to help others understand its
devastating effects, and I have no doubt that there are many many people
receiving government grants to fund these surveys and refine their
models and salt mapping diagrams.

Almost all of the info is negative and depressing and virtually states
that we are doomed to be swallowed up by mountains of salt unless we do
something ... the trouble is I can't actually find anyone who IS doing
anything other than devising yet another model or salt map for continued
monitoring ...of course all at great expense in the form of grant
money which ultimately gets passed onto the public in the form of levies
and surcharges.

My question is this .... does anyone know of any information on the net
which shows positive results from methods which can be applied by the
everyday person ?.

Most of the farming resources I read understandably deal with enabling
the farmer to still get a return from salt affected land whilst using
techniques to reduce high water tables and salt content, but I think thy
never actually address the real issue of soil structure


I'm not sure what you mean by "soil structure". I do know that a lot of the
salinity info I've seen relating to farm salinity is about increasing humus
content (wiht the recognition that this is very difficult but that
increasing soil biota is very possible and also very successful) and
increasing soil coverage (by vegetation muclching etc and very strong
protection against any degradtion of the souil by both animal activity and
human activity.


This is the sort of info I'm looking for, I'm already getting some
varied success from trying different things ...as some of you know from
my postings here .... but I'm always looking for others sources of info
... no more reports, studies or models from well intentioned government
sponsored surveys ... I feel like I've read all of em.


Do you remember me posting this site befo
http://www.rosneath.com.au/ipc6/ch02/withers/index.html

I think it fits your criteria of soil creation and effective coping with
appalling non productive soil very well and is very inspiring. You may not
agree :-))

I wonder if anyone would be interested if I put together a simple web
page wiv piccies of my modest efforts in the hopes of helping others ?


I'd be very interested.

Fran



  #5   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2005, 05:42 AM
Farm1
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Len I promised that I'd sendyou some wattle seeds when they were ripe in
Autumn.

Sorry mate, the cockies beat me to the seeds and I can't even find anything
but empty seed cases on the ground.

Fran




  #6   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2005, 10:57 AM
pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Farm1 wrote:

Pete I've mentioned these farms here befo
http://www.abc.net.au/landline/stories/s100812.htm

I know that one of the major problems at least one of these farms had was
salinity. somewhere I have a book on what was on those farms but I can't
lay my hands on it at the moment. It is fascinating reading and I can
strongly recommend it.


Hiya Fran
I remember the last link but couldnt remember the first one so thanks
for them I'll save em as faves and have a good read.

I have to admit the farming organisations seem to be doing lots of stuff
to try new things and the farmers themselves seem much more open to
trying new things these days too, at one time not so long ago farmers
wouldn't have even admitted to having a salt prob because it was seen as
a failure to manage the property properly, I think ...I hope those
attitudes are changing and farmers now seem to openly discuss it and
look for ways of dealing with it.


I'm not sure what you mean by "soil structure". I do know that a lot of the
salinity info I've seen relating to farm salinity is about increasing humus
content (wiht the recognition that this is very difficult but that
increasing soil biota is very possible and also very successful) and
increasing soil coverage (by vegetation muclching etc and very strong
protection against any degradtion of the souil by both animal activity and
human activity.


OK Tomorrow I'm definitely taking some soil pics, before and after pics
of what simple hoss poop can do to a poor excuse for a soil.... you'll
see what I mean by soil structure then my girl I'll give you soil
structure (oops ..slipped into grumpy old fart mode then) ......actually
of course its just my interpretation of what a good soil structure
should be but if I manage to take good pics I'm sure you'll agree that
the structure is more like soil and less like dried pea soup waiting for
moisture, plus it has "things" growing in it.

This is basically what I've been saying all along ...look after the soil
and the rest will follow ...I know on a broad acre place this is a
nightmare task of mammoth proportions ya can't just cart manure to a
spot when you see a need because of other needs, crops, grazing etc, I'm
only working on this new section which is tiny compared to a paddock but
its taking some work to even get a few rows to mature into what I call
real soil so I take my hat off to anyone tackling many hectares, my
only problem with their well intentioned and sometimes spectacular
results is that most of the time I can't directly relate to the
procedures they are using, reading an old -ish Stock Journal a farmer is
applying 2T/HA of Gypsum onto very clayey and saline paddocks which
increases his DSE from 1 DSE/8HA to 4DSE/HA !!!! now thats a huge
difference and it's improving the moisture retention of the clay soils
by enabling the particles to form colloidal (help spell checker) mass
..... rather than minute particles that form a dense clod.



Do you remember me posting this site befo
http://www.rosneath.com.au/ipc6/ch02/withers/index.html

I think it fits your criteria of soil creation and effective coping with
appalling non productive soil very well and is very inspiring. You may not
agree :-))


I always agree with you ...you know that, remember I had the worms? ,,,
they are still around in a much broader area and possibly less dense
population ....the original vermicompost has been used for different
projects with varying degrees of success ...it dries out to almost the
same unwettable stuff that we've talked about before if it's left too
long without moisture, I lost my raspberry bush which was at one stage
going rampant in the old worm beds because I became complacent and
thought the moisture was actually getting deep into the "soil" ... it
wasnt, one thing we have found the ex vermicompost good for is growing
native trees in, which would seem to confirm that there is little high
nutrient value left in it but when watered carefully it holds water
while still being free draining.


I wonder if anyone would be interested if I put together a simple web
page wiv piccies of my modest efforts in the hopes of helping others ?



I'd be very interested.

Fran


Then thats 2 of ya's ...and it shall be done ...just don't expect earth
shattering discoveries.... just a simple guy playing in the dirt.

Pete
  #7   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2005, 11:04 AM
pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default

pete wrote:
I can't directly relate to the
procedures they are using, reading an old -ish Stock Journal a farmer is
applying 2T/HA of Gypsum onto very clayey and saline paddocks which
increases his DSE from 1 DSE/8HA to 4DSE/HA !!!! now thats a huge
difference and it's improving the moisture retention of the clay soils
by enabling the particles to form colloidal (help spell checker) mass
.... rather than minute particles that form a dense clod.


oops I meant to add here ... that I havent got the means to buy, spread
and dig in those sorts of amounts of gypsum even though I KNOW it would
help greatly .. so while I know Gyspum is great for clay soils and I'm
impressed with this farmers results ... I'm more interested in creating
a living soil structure by more modest means, (read cheap here).

Pete
  #8   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2005, 08:56 PM
len gardener
 
Posts: n/a
Default

that's ok fran,

we are on the narket yet again this time for real things if nothing
else constantly change hey.

len
snipped
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

my e/mail addies have spam filters you should know what to delete before you send.
  #9   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2005, 11:45 PM
pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default

For anyone interested.
The national dryland salinity program has a free CD and a coupla manuals
available at
http://www.ndsp.gov.au/about.asp?section=105

Pete
  #10   Report Post  
Old 12-05-2005, 04:44 AM
Farm1
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"pete" wrote lots of interesting things in his
message

Then thats 2 of ya's ...and it shall be done ...just don't expect earth
shattering discoveries.... just a simple guy playing in the dirt.


In extrme haste - have read and roughly digested what you wrote, but have to
get of this machine and get ready for work - will write more tomorrow (I
hope - if not then, then shortly thereafter).

Fran




  #11   Report Post  
Old 12-05-2005, 07:58 AM
Chookie
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
pete wrote:

Almost all of the info is negative and depressing and virtually states
that we are doomed to be swallowed up by mountains of salt unless we do
something ... the trouble is I can't actually find anyone who IS doing
anything other than devising yet another model or salt map for continued
monitoring ...of course all at great expense in the form of grant
money which ultimately gets passed onto the public in the form of levies
and surcharges.

My question is this .... does anyone know of any information on the net
which shows positive results from methods which can be applied by the
everyday person ?.


I posted about this last year:

Chookie Nov 1 2004, 9:33 pm
Newsgroups: alt.permaculture
From: Chookie - Find messages by this author
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 21:33:39 +1100
Local: Mon,Nov 1 2004 9:33 pm
Subject: Permie Practices Take Over WA

We did a bit of travelling in the Wertern Australian wheat belt a few weeks
ago (did a circuit from York to Corrigin to Wickepin to Narrogin, then across
to Mandurah and Perth) and were interested to see permie things taking root,
so to speak, on broadacre farms.

There is a new (and plainly recent) fad for swales, belts of natives, and I
even saw something that looked suspiciously like alley cropping -- single rows
of trees with wheat belts one harvester wide planted between them. It's very
odd to come upon all this hippie stuff in Ironbar Tuckey country!

The reason, we discovered, was salination. The wheat belt was originally
forest, and clearing and planting to wheat has raised the water table to such
an extent that low-lying patches are visibly swampy and infertile (they are
evil-looking brown areas, like something out of the Lord of the Rings). The
remedial work, familiar to anyone who's read any permie stuff, is working, and
is working quickly, too. The problem isn't gone yet, but there has been a
noticeable improvement, and the locals are hopeful that they can produce grain
sustainably over the long term.

Thought you'd all like to know. WA is viewed by most Easterners as populated
almost entirely by racists and conmen who believe anything that moves should
be hunted down and anything that doesn't should be chopped down or dug up.
Plainly, it is not!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"In Melbourne there is plenty of vigour and eagerness, but there is
nothing worth being eager or vigorous about."
Francis Adams, The Australians, 1893.
  #12   Report Post  
Old 12-05-2005, 10:20 AM
pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Farm1 wrote:
"pete" wrote lots of interesting things in his
message


Then thats 2 of ya's ...and it shall be done ...just don't expect earth
shattering discoveries.... just a simple guy playing in the dirt.



In extrme haste - have read and roughly digested what you wrote, but have to
get of this machine and get ready for work - will write more tomorrow (I
hope - if not then, then shortly thereafter).

Fran


Stop rushing around ...

Have a look at this quick, rushed ...oops I mean simple but carefully
crafted web page that I've thrown ... I mean lovingly put together just
for you and Len cos ya said ya wuz interested .... it's not much and
I'll try to make it a bit more user freindly and hopefully informative
as time goes on .... anyways here tis

http://whatsallthisthen.100free.com/

yes of course its on a free server waddya expect from me?

Pete
  #13   Report Post  
Old 12-05-2005, 10:31 AM
pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Chookie wrote:
In article ,
pete wrote:


Almost all of the info is negative and depressing and virtually states
that we are doomed to be swallowed up by mountains of salt unless we do
something ... the trouble is I can't actually find anyone who IS doing
anything other than devising yet another model or salt map for continued
monitoring ...of course all at great expense in the form of grant
money which ultimately gets passed onto the public in the form of levies
and surcharges.

My question is this .... does anyone know of any information on the net
which shows positive results from methods which can be applied by the
everyday person ?.



I posted about this last year:

Chookie Nov 1 2004, 9:33 pm
Newsgroups: alt.permaculture
From: Chookie - Find messages by this author
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 21:33:39 +1100
Local: Mon,Nov 1 2004 9:33 pm
Subject: Permie Practices Take Over WA

We did a bit of travelling in the Wertern Australian wheat belt a few weeks
ago (did a circuit from York to Corrigin to Wickepin to Narrogin, then across
to Mandurah and Perth) and were interested to see permie things taking root,
so to speak, on broadacre farms.

There is a new (and plainly recent) fad for swales, belts of natives, and I
even saw something that looked suspiciously like alley cropping -- single rows
of trees with wheat belts one harvester wide planted between them. It's very
odd to come upon all this hippie stuff in Ironbar Tuckey country!

The reason, we discovered, was salination. The wheat belt was originally
forest, and clearing and planting to wheat has raised the water table to such
an extent that low-lying patches are visibly swampy and infertile (they are
evil-looking brown areas, like something out of the Lord of the Rings). The
remedial work, familiar to anyone who's read any permie stuff, is working, and
is working quickly, too. The problem isn't gone yet, but there has been a
noticeable improvement, and the locals are hopeful that they can produce grain
sustainably over the long term.

Thought you'd all like to know. WA is viewed by most Easterners as populated
almost entirely by racists and conmen who believe anything that moves should
be hunted down and anything that doesn't should be chopped down or dug up.
Plainly, it is not!

Fanks Chookie ...I stand somewhat corrected, as I said before though I
see many initiatives taken up by farmers and larger properties and they
seem to be working well, trouble is things like alley cropping although
great in the right situation don't really have much in common with me
growing a few veg for home use.

I love the swales idea and thats one that I can use, at the moment I'm
pretty intent on getting some actual soil that will support life cos
it's great having a swale and planting on the up or downside of it but
that soil has to be able to grow something .... so thats where I'm at
....making some real soil so that when I do dig down I don't just fall
into a quicksand pit.

Thanks for that info it really is great to see farmers doing all this stuff.

Pete
  #14   Report Post  
Old 12-05-2005, 11:36 PM
pete
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Janet Baraclough wrote:
The message
from pete contains these words:



Have a look at this quick, rushed ...oops I mean simple but carefully
crafted web page that I've thrown ... I mean lovingly put together just
for you and Len cos ya said ya wuz interested .... it's not much and
I'll try to make it a bit more user freindly and hopefully informative
as time goes on .... anyways here tis



http://whatsallthisthen.100free.com/



Thanks Pete, I found that fascinating and the progression of pics
really brought it home. Off at a tangent, I was reading that the areas
hit by the tsunami 4 months ago were so badly salinated by it, the
usual crops won't grow. There are proposals to wash the soil with fresh
water ( !!!!!!!!!!plenty of that available there) but meanwhile
experiment with more salt-tolerant crops.

Although the situation and Indian Ocean climate is so different from
your own it might be worth keeping an eye on progress reports there to
see if they come up with any answers that could be adapted for your own
use.

Janet


Hiya Janet glad you enjoyed the page, simple as it is,I'm going to keep
it going though winter to try to show the difference by this time next
year, by the time I get into the REALLY low spot I hope I'll have proved
my point about soil structure.

I understand the Tsunami efforts ... they are panicking, I would too in
that situation of course it's the wrong thing to do for the long term
but if the area wasnt saline before the tsunami then they may get away
with it. If they can get the salt away and start to revegetate then they
may be in with a fighting chance.

The area I'm working on now has been flooded twice in the last 10 years
and the water has sat for about 2 weeks becoming more and more saline as
time goes on.

I can't even imagine the size of the task they have in front of em, of
course I've seen the pics but wow ... I felt like a little kid who sees
the RSPCA adverts and immediately wants to give all her/his pocket money
to saving lost puppies, I actually wanted to fly over and help in some
way .. not really practical says the wife ... nope, so I send a bit of
cash .... geez,

I'll keep up with news there, if ever there was a salt project worth
watching this would have to be one of em.

Pete
  #15   Report Post  
Old 13-05-2005, 01:26 PM
Farm1
 
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"pete" wrote in message


I'll try to make it a bit more user freindly and hopefully informative
as time goes on .... anyways here tis

http://whatsallthisthen.100free.com/


Pete you DO have shitty soil! My sympathies Sunshine.

Where exactly is this area you are trying to rehabilitate with the Fergie?
By that I want to know if it is in a paddock or close to the house as in
where I would expect to find a normal veggie patch?

The reaon why I ask is that I wonder whether you perhaps need to get far
more protection from the sun in terms of shade and prevention of
evaporation.

The one thing that the one combine harvester wide section between the trees
in WA (that Chookie wrote about) would do is give that sort of protection as
well as drininking up saline water at root level.

Why I'm even thinking about this angle is that I have found over the last
year that the only things I could grow in summer were things that were
either in full shade or under shade cloth. That stinking sun and the
constant hot winds just killed anything else. I've also been reading
Michael Boddy and Richard Beckett's book "Surviving in the Eighties" and he
has some good ideas about growing food in foul summer conditions. I think
its is the sort of book you'd enjoy and you may be able to get it on
interlibrary loan.

What have you managed to achieve with the addition of horse poop?


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