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Old 02-10-2005, 04:44 AM
 
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Default aluminium sequin in orbit to halt Global Warming and hurricanes; plants stop absorbing CO2

Saw on the BBC about a week ago a news flash that with increasing
Global Warming that plants stop growing and stop absorbing the CO2.
There was no mechanism or reason given as to why plants do that, but it
was expected that plants would absorb more CO2 as it increases, so it
makes the doomsday scenario even more gloomy.

What I want to say is that if we build a Earth Air Conditioner by
seeding the equator with Aluminium Sequin in orbit that I was thinking
the reflected sunlight my decrease plant cover on Earth surface. But
according to this BBC report the Aluminum Sequin is a benefit to plant
cover. Apparently plants do not like it hot either.

Anyone know what the mechanism as to why plants would stop growing with
increasing Global Warming and increasing CO2??

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

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Old 02-10-2005, 05:06 AM
Melchizedek
 
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Get out of here with your Global Litterbug scheme. End dependence on
carbon-fuels and you don't need to blast crap into space. Rockets emit
powerful lots of GREENHOUSE GASES too.

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Old 02-10-2005, 09:31 AM
Helmut Wabnig
 
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On 1 Oct 2005 20:06:19 -0700, "Melchizedek"
wrote:

Get out of here with your Global Litterbug scheme. End dependence on
carbon-fuels and you don't need to blast crap into space. Rockets emit
powerful lots of GREENHOUSE GASES too.


2H2 + O2 = 2H2O, a well known greenhouse gas.

w,
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Old 02-10-2005, 10:31 AM
Roger Coppock
 
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Let's run some numbers on this idea . . .

The solar constant is ~1367 Watts per Meter squared
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Constant

Global Warming is now about 3 watts per meter squared, 0.2% of the
solar constant.
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/data/simodel/
(It will quadruple in a century or two.)

The cross sectional area of the Earth is 125,000,000 km=B2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Constant

The area of Aluminum sequin in orbit needed to remove the current
global warming is, therefore roughly .002 * 125,000,000 km squared or
300000 km squared.

If your sequins were one 10,000th of a meter thick, you would need to
orbit 30 km cubed worth of Aluminum.

The density of Aluminum is 2.70 g/cm=B3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum

one km cubed is 10 to the 15 cm cubed.

So you want to orbit 8 times 10 to the 13 the power kg of Aluminum.

Well then, GOOD LUCK.
Even if you could reduce this by, say, making your sequins
1/1000 thiner, it would still be impossible. But . . .

I've got an idea! WHY NOT JUST REDUCE THE EMISSIONS
OF GREENHOUSE GASES? Wouldn't that be easier?
Of course, one could not write good science fiction, because
this solution is too practical.

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Old 02-10-2005, 12:10 PM
 
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In the science news tonight I read a report that approx 30% of Global
Warming is caused by instabilities of the Sun radiation such as flares
etc etc. All the more reason that humanity, for its own safety needs to
build an Earth Air Conditioner. Suppose the Sun behaves drastically
different one of these years or for decades of flaring, or maybe some
huge cosmic ray makes its prescence near our solar system.

Unless we have some measure, some option of defense to cool Earth, we
risk going extinct.

So an Earth Air Conditioner is not some luxury or some advantageous
comfort, but an Earth Air Conditioner is for our necessity to survive
the future. We have the technology to build one by summer of 2006 via
the Aluminium Sequin deposited in orbit near the Equatorial latitude.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies



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Old 02-10-2005, 02:28 PM
Cereus-validus.......
 
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It was only a matter of time before Archie finally became another Gary
Glitter.


wrote in message
oups.com...
Saw on the BBC about a week ago a news flash that with increasing
Global Warming that plants stop growing and stop absorbing the CO2.
There was no mechanism or reason given as to why plants do that, but it
was expected that plants would absorb more CO2 as it increases, so it
makes the doomsday scenario even more gloomy.

What I want to say is that if we build a Earth Air Conditioner by
seeding the equator with Aluminium Sequin in orbit that I was thinking
the reflected sunlight my decrease plant cover on Earth surface. But
according to this BBC report the Aluminum Sequin is a benefit to plant
cover. Apparently plants do not like it hot either.

Anyone know what the mechanism as to why plants would stop growing with
increasing Global Warming and increasing CO2??

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies



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Old 02-10-2005, 03:44 PM
Androcles
 
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wrote in message
oups.com...
| Saw on the BBC about a week ago a news flash that with increasing
| Global Warming that plants stop growing and stop absorbing the CO2.
| There was no mechanism or reason given as to why plants do that, but
it
| was expected that plants would absorb more CO2 as it increases, so it
| makes the doomsday scenario even more gloomy.
|
| What I want to say is that if we build a Earth Air Conditioner by
| seeding the equator with Aluminium Sequin in orbit that I was thinking
| the reflected sunlight my decrease plant cover on Earth surface. But
| according to this BBC report the Aluminum Sequin is a benefit to plant
| cover. Apparently plants do not like it hot either.

LOL! How many apple trees do you see in Florida?
Oranges seem to thrive, though.
Androcles.




|
| Anyone know what the mechanism as to why plants would stop growing
with
| increasing Global Warming and increasing CO2??
|
| Archimedes Plutonium
| www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
| whole entire Universe is just one big atom
| where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
|

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Old 02-10-2005, 04:57 PM
Joe Hughes
 
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Unless we have some measure, some option of defense to cool Earth, we
risk going extinct.

So an Earth Air Conditioner is not some luxury or some advantageous
comfort, but an Earth Air Conditioner is for our necessity to survive
the future.


You are absolutely correct, the Earth needs something to reflect solar
radiation back into space.

Traditionally, this has been high albedo cloud cover over the equator
caused by rain forest transpiration. Rainforest deforestation is
heating the earth, not because of reduced CO2 absorption (grown trees do
not absorb much CO2 -- plankton, periphyton, annuals, and grasses are
best for that) but because of reduced rain-forest induced cloud cover.

Since Aluminum is toxic to plants, and since, as another poster pointed
out, you would need an impossible amount, I suggest you support plans to
reforest the rain forest.


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Old 02-10-2005, 07:59 PM
 
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Joe Hughes wrote:
You are absolutely correct, the Earth needs something to reflect solar
radiation back into space.

Traditionally, this has been high albedo cloud cover over the equator
caused by rain forest transpiration. Rainforest deforestation is
heating the earth, not because of reduced CO2 absorption (grown trees
do
not absorb much CO2 -- plankton, periphyton, annuals, and grasses are
best for that) but because of reduced rain-forest induced cloud cover.

Since Aluminum is toxic to plants, and since, as another poster pointed
out, you would need an impossible amount, I suggest you support plans
to
reforest the rain forest.

A.P. writes:

Yes, this is an important destructive feature of Global Warming is that
it burns off cloud cover. Not only is the factor of humans removing
rain forests that build clouds, but that even if the rain forests were
not removed by humans that the increasing global warming would burn off
clouds as a process in itself. This is why I believe the interior of
continents becomes more and more arid is because the increasing heat of
summertimes decreases cloud cover. Our summers in the plains of the USA
during the 1980s had hot humid days whose nights were often covered in
clouds. Nowadays we have hot humid days that are cloudless.

I am all for the restoration of rainforests because that is concomitant
with the realization that we have a upper limit of human population on
Earth. This planet cannot sustain 7 billion humans and have a
rainforest. This planet can sustain 2 billion humans who all live on
renewable energy and where a rainforest can thrive and where all
animals larger than that of a dog has an ecosystem so that it is not
threatened with extinction. Human overpopulation drives most other
evils and unless we address human overpopulation, most problems will
not be solved.

Aluminium Sequin in orbit is the planet's first Earth Air Conditioner
system. We need it regardless of anything else. We need a measure of
control of the global temperature and as a protection against an
overactive Sun. It is commonsense, it is not wisdom, that should tell
each and everyone of us that whenever we have control over something
that may threaten our life, that we take and embrace that control, not
ignore it. It is stupidity that does not embrace and grab for controll
of that which can threaten our lives, both individually and as a
species.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

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Old 02-10-2005, 08:20 PM
Ian Parker
 
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If your sequins were one 10,000th of a meter thick, you would need to
orbit 30 km cubed worth of Aluminum.


The density of Aluminum is 2.70 g/cm=B3


The only way to do it is to have a Von Neumann machine. A machine which
will build itself. If you have to transport it from Earth it is indeed
an insane proposition.

Get out of here with your Global Litterbug scheme. End dependence on
carbon-fuels and you don't need to blast crap into space. Rockets emit
powerful lots of GREENHOUSE GASES too.


You need to mine the moon or asteroids. Aluminium and Silicon are
fairly common in the asteroid belt. Basically you need a machine which
will extract Al and Si from asteroids using sunlight, and will then
build another similar machine, as well as making Al foil.

VN machines have been associated with nanotechnology but that is an
erroneous view. A large (something of the order of 1000kg or so
machine) could be sent to an asteroid to build itself. Indeed VN
technology may well be the only true future of space. I have argued
elewhere that a manned trip to Mars will be a total nonsense unless
there is a house on Mars is already built and ready to be occupied.

Such a VN machine could also build a microwave generator proving us
with a complete non fossil source of energy.

I feel at some point I should probably start a thread specifically on
Von Neumann machines. For now I will simply add my bit to this one.

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Old 09-10-2005, 10:29 PM
Alan Meyer
 
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I agree with the various critiques of the Aluminum Sequin proposal.
It's doomed from all points of view - practicality, effectiveness, and
political impossibility.

Then again, maybe it's not so politically impossible. Perhaps the
administrations that gave us Star Wars would find something like
this very much to their taste

But all that aside, I wonder if anyone has an answer to AP's
specific question?

Anyone know what the mechanism as to why plants would stop
growing with increasing Global Warming and increasing CO2??


Clearly, increasing CO2 will only increase photosynthetic rates to the
extent that they are limited by CO2 rather than other factors. Does anyone
know if currently available quantities of CO2 are a limiting factor? I
wouldn't think they pose a limit currently.

Temperature is also a factor, but global warming may have both positive
and negative effects on total plant growth. Warming may increase
photosynthetic activity in areas of the globe that are currently too cold
for part or all of the year, but may desertify other areas, reducing total
plant life in those areas.

But, as another poster pointed out, it's probably the effects in the
ocean that will be most telling.

Alan


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Old 09-10-2005, 11:17 PM
 
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Anyone know what the mechanism as to why plants would stop growing
with increasing Global Warming and increasing CO2??

*********************

Would certainly vary by geographic area. Plants in areas pushed into
desertification would stop growing, by definition.

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