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#1
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The lower limit of seed size to organize energy and produce a plant; what is it?
There must be a lower limit as to the size of a seed, for which it is
impossible to grow a plant therefrom. A strawberry seed is very small but probably not the smallest in existence. Elm seeds are small in relation to becoming a woody plant of a tree. Can you have a tree come from a seed that is as small as a strawberry seed? Can you have a seed as small as a "big virus" or "small bacteria"? So what I am fathoming into, is the question of the limitations of size of plant seed in order for the entity to grow into a plant. Somewhere in size, say in millimeters or smaller comes a lower limit for which the seed cannot organize itself into a plant. What is this lower limit? And the physics comes into the picture as to the photosynthesis takes over as the energy source. So is there a Lower Limit in size in which photosynthesis cannot take over the duties of growing the plant. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
#3
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The lower limit of seed size to organize energy and produce a plant; what is it?
Charles wrote:
Read about orchid seeds. Too small to have any stored food, need a fungus to feed them but they gave the genetic material necessary. A.P. replies: So in a sense, an orchid seed has become a viral particle that uses fungus to regenerate itself. Can we define a virus as a seed? |
#4
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The lower limit of seed size to organize energy and produce a plant; what is it?
No. orchid seeds are not at all similar to viral particles.
Seeds of Orchidaceae use a mutually benificial, symbiotic relationship to germinate as they dont carry their own food supplies and use the sugars released by the actions of particular fungi to grow. A virus uses the cells of an organism to duplicate its own DNA... there is quite a marked difference. Kye. wrote in message oups.com... Charles wrote: Read about orchid seeds. Too small to have any stored food, need a fungus to feed them but they gave the genetic material necessary. A.P. replies: So in a sense, an orchid seed has become a viral particle that uses fungus to regenerate itself. Can we define a virus as a seed? |
#5
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The lower limit of seed size to organize energy and produce a plant; what is it?
In article .com, wrote:
There must be a lower limit as to the size of a seed, for which it is impossible to grow a plant therefrom. A strawberry seed is very small but probably not the smallest in existence. Elm seeds are small in relation to becoming a woody plant of a tree. Can you have a tree come from a seed that is as small as a strawberry seed? Can you have a seed as small as a "big virus" or "small bacteria"? Hey, Pluto! Didn't you start a thread on this theme some time ago? What were the answers then? Cheers, Phred. -- LID |
#6
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The lower limit of seed size to organize energy and produce a plant; what is it?
Since DNA self-replicates, it can be considered its own seed, and its
size is "itty-bitty". |
#7
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The lower limit of seed size to organize energy and produce a plant; what is it?
Kye wrote:
No. orchid seeds are not at all similar to viral particles. Seeds of Orchidaceae use a mutually benificial, symbiotic relationship to germinate as they dont carry their own food supplies and use the sugars released by the actions of particular fungi to grow. A virus uses the cells of an organism to duplicate its own DNA... there is quite a marked difference. A.P. replies: Well I want the thermodynamics or energy relationships of the smallest size possible plant seed. Can you have a plant grow from pure DNA, or does it need a minimum stored energy to get it to the point where the Sunlight takes over the job. Apparently, between the size of an Orchid seed and a strawberry seed lies the answer to this question of Energy equation. The Minimum Amount of Stored Energy surrounding the DNA to create a plant seed. That is the question. What exactly is the millimeter size of a strawberry seed? What exactly is the millimeter size of a orchid seed? As we get smaller size than that of a strawberry seed we eventually come to a size for which the physics does not allow for the seed to develop into a plant. So that is the question. What is the minimum Stored Energy surrounding a DNA for which the plant can grow to maturity. This is a physical limit that needs to be well understood. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
#8
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The lower limit of seed size to organize energy and produce a plant; what is it?
wrote in message oups.com... ... Well I want the thermodynamics or energy relationships of the smallest size possible plant seed. Can you have a plant grow from pure DNA, or does it need a minimum stored energy to get it to the point where the Sunlight takes over the job. ... I'm not an expert on this but allow me to offer a speculative answer to your question. First, for simplicity, let's leave asided the orchid or any other plant that gets part of its nutrients from a symbiotic relationship with some other organism, and only consider seeds that can grow on their own without help. If we measure the weight of the seedling at its largest size before photosynthesis begins, we should be measuring the amount of material that was already in the seed, plus any water or minerals absorbed from the ground. I presume that there is not an exact cutoff point where growth is fed by photosynthesis rather than stored energy. No doubt there is a period of overlap. So we can't get an exact point for this, but we can get an approximate, average point. I also presume that the amount of water absorbed varies from plant to plant, with some plants coming from seeds that are relatively wet inside and others being quite dry and absorbing most of their water from the environment. But setting these complications aside, my speculation would be that we come up with a figure that is many orders of magnitude greater than the size of a bacterium, and in fact, several orders of magnitude greater than the typical size of a eucaryotic cell. Alan |
#9
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The lower limit of seed size to organize energy and produce aplant; what is it?
Alan Meyer wrote: wrote in message oups.com... ... Well I want the thermodynamics or energy relationships of the smallest size possible plant seed. Can you have a plant grow from pure DNA, or does it need a minimum stored energy to get it to the point where the Sunlight takes over the job. ... I'm not an expert on this but allow me to offer a speculative answer to your question. First, for simplicity, let's leave asided the orchid or any other plant that gets part of its nutrients from a symbiotic relationship with some other organism, and only consider seeds that can grow on their own without help. If we measure the weight of the seedling at its largest size before photosynthesis begins, we should be measuring the amount of material that was already in the seed, plus any water or minerals absorbed from the ground. I presume that there is not an exact cutoff point where growth is fed by photosynthesis rather than stored energy. No doubt there is a period of overlap. So we can't get an exact point for this, but we can get an approximate, average point. I also presume that the amount of water absorbed varies from plant to plant, with some plants coming from seeds that are relatively wet inside and others being quite dry and absorbing most of their water from the environment. But setting these complications aside, my speculation would be that we come up with a figure that is many orders of magnitude greater than the size of a bacterium, and in fact, several orders of magnitude greater than the typical size of a eucaryotic cell. Alan Yes I this is a good starting point to measure the weight of the seed before we start and to weigh the seedling before photosynthesis begins. I wonder if any experimenter has performed that task already. I am especially interested in this topic for the Fusion Barrier Principle where 2/3 breakeven is the upper limit. So I wonder if this 2/3 number appears in the Energy equation of a seed. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
#10
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The lower limit of seed size to organize energy and produce a plant; what is it?
First of, I remember various faiths teaching about faith as a seed that
grows. So, its a question that stalked people, maybe since forever. For all we know, the starting seed of alien life form could be as small as the last seen small thing that exibited properties of life. It would have enough energy to alter the smallest portion of enviroment around it. Yet again, from there it would be one cool green thing to watch. DNA is a low calory food. It mostly contains information, and a necessary paradox because your question still makes sense entirely. |
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