On Mon, 12 May 2008 08:00:58 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Someone else wrote:
On Sun, 11 May 2008 05:41:49 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Someone else wrote:
On Sat, 10 May 2008 11:40:29 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
Hal Ó Mearadhaigh. wrote:

Hal Ó Mearadhaigh. wrote:
Someone else wrote:
On Fri, 09 May 2008 22:35:45 +0000 (GMT), jl

wrote:
In article ,
Hal Ó Mearadhaigh. wrote:
Someone else wrote:
On Thu, 8 May 2008 16:57:04 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be
given wrote:

For those who think that Ireland never had significant forest
cover please see:

www.lhi.org.uk/docs/History_Project_1.pdf

"The first wave of colonisation was by birch, aspen and
sallow.
About 8 500 BC. pine and hazel spread northwards, replacing
the
birch, which became uncommon. The pine colonisation was
followed
by a wave of oak and alder. Lime and elm followed this, then
holly, ash, beech, hornbeam and maple."

Ireland's population grew to around 8 million. But that had
little to do with the state of the forests. Disease and over
harvesting of trees were the main causes of the
deforestation.

Who was it that was responsible for that overharvesting?

NOT the British, who always had plenty of forests of their own,
but
also imported any woods for ship building mostly from
Scandinavia.


As Ireland had no coal, the needs of 8 million people for
charcoal and cooking woulkd certainly damage the forests.
Peat
was available of course - but only after the forests had made
room for it.

No, it was always available...

Peat bogs? of course. But they were also forested.


If local attitudes to trees were the same then as now, it is
surprising that any trees survived at all.

"That tree will knock that wall down - cut it down".

I've heard that sentence so often, it makes me sick.


Manufacturing, farming, and the
monies being made out of harvesting the peat bogs were main
causes. (Alas Bord Na Mona, so much for greed). Blaming the
British, (English) is merely being paranoid and specious.

Not if it actually was the British that cut down the Irish
forests to build the fleet that fought the Spanish Armada.

Nonsense! : See
http://fubini.swarthmore.edu/~ENVS2/...restation.html

At that reference it says:

"Those who traveled across Ireland at this time reported that one
could ride all day and not see a single tree, an image that
contrasts
sharply with the carpet of trees that covered the area only
centuries
before (Brown, Terry)."

Brown, Terry. "Wood in Development of Civilization."
[http://www.cof.orst.edu/cof/teach/fo...velopment.pdf]

Which supports my allegation that Ireland was rapidly deforested
during the time that Britain invaded and occupied.

Game, set and match Mr Merrick.

I made that same comment

No you didn't.

and you told me to "reread what I had posted". Are you by any
chance a loon?

You're the one claiming to have made certain specific comments when
you did not...nowhere did you say, "Game, set and match Mr Merrick"
or
even, more charitably, "Game, set and match"

rimshot

plonk

I see that as an admission of defeat.

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On Mon, 12 May 2008 19:06:53 +0100, "Falcon"
wrote:



"Culchie Aspirant" wrote in message
.. .
[...]
The building of the Spanish Armada itself deforested Spain and Spain
is significantly larger than Ireland and Britain added together.

God almighty. Just when I thought things couldn't get sillier, we have a
debate in which a 'scientist' actually claims to explain deforestation by
blaming hundreds of years of ecological damage on the building a couple of
hundred ships.

We're all doomed, I tell you.

No, you're an ignorant ignorant man...fortunately that fact alone does
not mean that we're doomed...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation

"The large-scale building of wooden sailing ships by European
(coastal) naval owners since the 15th century for exploration,
colonization, slave and other trade on the high seas and (often
related) naval warfare (the failed invasion of England by the Spanish
Armada in 1559 and the battle of Lepanto 1577 are early cases of huge
waste of prime timber; each of Nelson's Royal navy war ships at
Trafalgar had required 6000 mature oaks) and piracy meant that whole
woody regions were over-harvested, as in Spain, where this
contributed to the paradoxical weakening of the domestic economy since
Columbus' discovery of America made the colonial activities
(plundering, mining, cattle, plantations, trade ...) predominant.

Tell me Falcon, since you're such a clever *******, where do you think
the 162,000* Oaks that Nelson used to make his fleet came from?

* For the mathematically challenged i.e. Falcon, (27 x 6000 = 162,000)

Furthermore, to nail the point home to all my critics in SCI, on this
matter:

I note from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation

"Djouce Mountain, along with most of the island of Ireland, was
systematically clear-felled during the 17th and 18th centuries, in
order to obtain wood mainly for shipbuilding.[1]"

"Initially, deforestation was practiced by local farmers in order to
clear land for crops, but later Ireland was systematically deforested
in order to obtain wood for shipbuilding."

[1]
http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/special_...reland_7.lasso

Game, set, match.

Nik

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On May 13, 9:00 am, Si wrote:
On May 11, 10:55 am, Des Higgins wrote:



On May 11, 1:14 am, Taig & Charlie wrote:

Des Higgins wrote:
On May 9, 5:15 pm, Si wrote:
On 8 May, 13:49, Des Higgins wrote:

On May 8, 11:15 am, mothed out wrote:
On May 7, 11:53 pm, (Way Back Jack) wrote:
TV documentaries and travelogues reveal a lot of lush "green" in those
countrysides but a relative scarcity of trees. Is it climate? Too
windy in Ireland? Sheep and/or other livestock?
One factor is this:
The EU has been paying farmers to cut down trees for a long time.
I think it is now paying people to plant them again.
Tree coverage in Ireland was at its lowest point a century ago. The
EU has nothing to do with it. In fact, Irish tree coverage has been
slowly growing since the 70s. The trees disappeared for farming, fuel
and for building (including ships), centuries ago.
T'was the towel heads(pasted from an old SCI thread):

"Message from Q'il Q'as (Al Jazzbeera)

Q'adda yen Hamid fastha q'on Aymid?
Tha Tehran A'Q'ilta er Al'Awer.
Ni Al Traw'q ter Q'il Q'as nawat' Ayla'q,
Shni Q'lingfer A'Qling Ibn' Braw "

well spotted that man!!
It makes a change from blaming the Brits (apart from Gavin Bailey who
himself almost certainly chopped down several large native trees).

Des

I didn't see him do it, though it is very likely, I would imagine he
lingered at it, you know the way those crazy pepole in Oregon tie you to
a tree before they do something that has the FBI web-site falling over?
Well I reckon it was like that, a difficult to understand type of thing.

I did not see him do it either; I am just assuming he must have; it
would be exactly the kind of oppressive thing he would have done.
Before the troubles, only 13.4% of NI trees were native.

T & C- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It was the unwanted introduction of Pinus sylvestris in the 17th
century in NI that was responsible for all the woes up there.


That is Cruithinology of the worst kind. Pinus sylvestris was common
in Ireland in prehistoric times as judged by the huge amounts that are
found underneath bogs all over (most bog oak) and Pine pollen in peat
deposits. So the plantations of Ulster can be justified on the
grounds of re-establishing rightful inhabitants.


Si

"Bog snorkler extraordinaire"

Culchie Aspirant wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 19:06:53 +0100, "Falcon"
wrote:



"Culchie Aspirant" wrote in
message ...
[...]
The building of the Spanish Armada itself deforested Spain and Spain
is significantly larger than Ireland and Britain added together.

God almighty. Just when I thought things couldn't get sillier, we
have a debate in which a 'scientist' actually claims to explain
deforestation by blaming hundreds of years of ecological damage on
the building a couple of hundred ships.

We're all doomed, I tell you.

No, you're an ignorant ignorant man...fortunately that fact alone does
not mean that we're doomed...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation

"The large-scale building of wooden sailing ships by European
(coastal) naval owners since the 15th century for exploration,
colonization, slave and other trade on the high seas and (often
related) naval warfare (the failed invasion of England by the Spanish
Armada in 1559 and the battle of Lepanto 1577 are early cases of huge
waste of prime timber; each of Nelson's Royal navy war ships at
Trafalgar had required 6000 mature oaks) and piracy meant that whole
woody regions were over-harvested, as in Spain, where this
contributed to the paradoxical weakening of the domestic economy since
Columbus' discovery of America made the colonial activities
(plundering, mining, cattle, plantations, trade ...) predominant.

Tell me Falcon, since you're such a clever *******, where do you think
the 162,000* Oaks that Nelson used to make his fleet came from?

* For the mathematically challenged i.e. Falcon, (27 x 6000 = 162,000)

Furthermore, to nail the point home to all my critics in SCI, on this
matter:

I note from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation

"Djouce Mountain, along with most of the island of Ireland, was
systematically clear-felled during the 17th and 18th centuries, in
order to obtain wood mainly for shipbuilding.[1]"

"Initially, deforestation was practiced by local farmers in order to
clear land for crops, but later Ireland was systematically deforested
in order to obtain wood for shipbuilding."

[1]
http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/special_...reland_7.lasso

Game, set, match.


Nobody said the forests weren't depleted for the building of ships. But
where does it say that the largest offender was the British? The Irish built
ships as well I am sure. England had vast forests of Oak planted
specifically for building navy ships. Your articles all state quite clearly
that the whole of Europe was involved, your own quote:

""The large-scale building of wooden sailing ships by European
(coastal) naval owners since the 15th century for exploration,
colonization, slave and other trade on the high seas and (often
related) naval warfare (the failed invasion of England by the Spanish
Armada in 1559 and the battle of Lepanto 1577 are early cases of huge
waste of prime timber; each of Nelson's Royal navy war ships at
Trafalgar had required 6000 mature oaks) and piracy meant that whole
woody regions were over-harvested, as in Spain, where this
contributed to the paradoxical weakening of the domestic economy since
Columbus' discovery of America made the colonial activities
(plundering, mining, cattle, plantations, trade ...) predominant."

So, who is contradicting themselves now, eh? Warrenson!

--
Hal Ó Mearadhaigh.

On May 12, 7:06 pm, "Falcon" wrote:
"Culchie Aspirant" wrote in message

...
[...]

The building of the Spanish Armada itself deforested Spain and Spain
is significantly larger than Ireland and Britain added together.

God almighty. Just when I thought things couldn't get sillier, we have a
debate in which a 'scientist' actually claims to explain deforestation by
blaming hundreds of years of ecological damage on the building a couple of
hundred ships.

Aye. All the trees on Easter Island were destroyed by God.


We're all doomed, I tell you.

Vanity will kill us all

--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)

On May 12, 7:39 am, Salahoona wrote:
On May 11, 5:26 am, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Salahoona" wrote in message

If you

use Eucl. Viminalis; plant them only a foot apart and in a group. They
will support each other in the wind (groups of two metres diameter)
and when the trunks are about eight inches wide they can be harvested.
Paint the cut on the living trunks with oil and they will sprout
again:

I can't think of a eucalypt that doesn't resprout if the trunk is cut right
off . I don't think there is really any need to paint with oil.

Sure. But I have other trees and use a mixture of linseed oil with a
cheap tin of rooting compound mixed in. I do the same even for osier
willow. I'd rather make sure that no disease gets a foot hold and it
is my nature to be gentle and kind with plants.

I do have a plum tree where the leaves get full of holes in an area
where lots of sloe grow. I'd rather destroy a plant which needs
insecticide to live.

PS. I think I said that I used Spartium Juncium or Spanish Broom
together with Tree lupin as a wind brake. I do but to make it clear -
where the combo faces storms, the Broom is in front, backed by a very
sturdy fence with the Lupin behind the fence. Elsewhere, the fence
isn't needed. The combination is so effective that in some parts it is
calm even in a gale. Tree Lupin lives for about five years only +/-

Donal

"Culchie Aspirant" wrote in message
...
[...]

Tell me Falcon, since you're such a clever *******, where do you think
the 162,000* Oaks that Nelson used to make his fleet came from?

No idea, Einstein, but wherever it was that would be around 500 - 700 acres
of woodland. Sounds vast until the 'scientist' in you cuts in and realises
that the New Forest alone covers roughly 76,000 acres of woodland and
plantations. So much for "the Spanish Armada" deforesting a country the size
of Spain.

--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)

On May 9, 12:15 pm, Si wrote:
On 8 May, 13:49, Des Higgins wrote:



On May 8, 11:15 am, mothed out wrote:

On May 7, 11:53 pm, (Way Back Jack) wrote:

TV documentaries and travelogues reveal a lot of lush "green" in those
countrysides but a relative scarcity of trees. Is it climate? Too
windy in Ireland? Sheep and/or other livestock?

One factor is this:
The EU has been paying farmers to cut down trees for a long time.
I think it is now paying people to plant them again.

Tree coverage in Ireland was at its lowest point a century ago. The
EU has nothing to do with it. In fact, Irish tree coverage has been
slowly growing since the 70s. The trees disappeared for farming, fuel
and for building (including ships), centuries ago.

T'was the towel heads(pasted from an old SCI thread):

"Message from Q'il Q'as (Al Jazzbeera)

Q'adda yen Hamid fastha q'on Aymid?
Tha Tehran A'Q'ilta er Al'Awer.
Ni Al Traw'q ter Q'il Q'as nawat' Ayla'q,
Shni Q'lingfer A'Qling Ibn' Braw "

Si

"Bog snorkler extraordinaire"

This is worth the 45 minutes I've spent poking around in SCI and
another one where Cat put some Irish men in their place (again).

Thanks for the laughs folks, hope you're all well, am keeping busy
with the wee boys.
I believe I will have some downtime in 2015 so keep an eye out for me
then.

Bo xx

In article
,
Boliath wrote:

On May 9, 12:15 pm, Si wrote:
On 8 May, 13:49, Des Higgins wrote:



On May 8, 11:15 am, mothed out wrote:

On May 7, 11:53 pm, (Way Back Jack) wrote:

TV documentaries and travelogues reveal a lot of lush "green" in those
countrysides but a relative scarcity of trees. Is it climate? Too
windy in Ireland? Sheep and/or other livestock?

One factor is this:
The EU has been paying farmers to cut down trees for a long time.
I think it is now paying people to plant them again.

Tree coverage in Ireland was at its lowest point a century ago. The
EU has nothing to do with it. In fact, Irish tree coverage has been
slowly growing since the 70s. The trees disappeared for farming, fuel
and for building (including ships), centuries ago.

T'was the towel heads(pasted from an old SCI thread):

"Message from Q'il Q'as (Al Jazzbeera)

Q'adda yen Hamid fastha q'on Aymid?
Tha Tehran A'Q'ilta er Al'Awer.
Ni Al Traw'q ter Q'il Q'as nawat' Ayla'q,
Shni Q'lingfer A'Qling Ibn' Braw "

Si

"Bog snorkler extraordinaire"

This is worth the 45 minutes I've spent poking around in SCI and
another one where Cat put some Irish men in their place (again).

Thanks for the laughs folks, hope you're all well, am keeping busy
with the wee boys.
I believe I will have some downtime in 2015 so keep an eye out for me
then.

Bo xx

Please join me in the Republican toast.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related