In seawater, most of the dissolved carbon dioxide is in the form of
the bicarbonate ion, rather than in the form of carbonate ion or
dissolved gas.

I'm trying to estimate the growth rate of a range of algae as a
function of dissolved CO2. Can algal photosynthesis use the HCO3- ion
directly? What about the CO3-- ion?

The basic biology books I've looked up only mention CO2, not the
dissolved ionic species, but it occurred to me that if algae had to
rely on CO2 gas then they'd starve to death.

On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 18:28:15 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

In seawater, most of the dissolved carbon dioxide is in the form of
the bicarbonate ion, rather than in the form of carbonate ion or
dissolved gas.

I'm trying to estimate the growth rate of a range of algae as a
function of dissolved CO2. Can algal photosynthesis use the HCO3- ion
directly? What about the CO3-- ion?

The basic biology books I've looked up only mention CO2, not the
dissolved ionic species, but it occurred to me that if algae had to
rely on CO2 gas then they'd starve to death.


With the great number of algal species it would be surprising if some
hadn't developed a way to use the bicarbonate ion. Some higher plants
do. If you are interested in pursuing this a good place to start
would be with the book by Diana Walstad, "Ecology of the Planted
Aquarium." It is freshwater oriented, but has a great number of
references which could be followed.

In article ,
wrote:
In seawater, most of the dissolved carbon dioxide is in the form of
the bicarbonate ion, rather than in the form of carbonate ion or
dissolved gas.

I'm trying to estimate the growth rate of a range of algae as a
function of dissolved CO2. Can algal photosynthesis use the HCO3- ion
directly? What about the CO3-- ion?

The basic biology books I've looked up only mention CO2, not the
dissolved ionic species, but it occurred to me that if algae had to
rely on CO2 gas then they'd starve to death.

Note that there's an equilibrium in water between carbonate, bicarbonate
and carbon dioxide, so even if the plants have to 'grab' the CO2 as it
forms, they can get it even at seawater pH where it's in very low
concentration. But since CO2 immediately forms carbonic acid ('hydrogen
bicarbonate') in water, I suspect that even land plants actually use it
in bicarbonate form.

I don't know what the growth-limiting factor is in marine algae in
nature, but IIRC nitrogen is a more important factor than carbon.
In fresh water, explosive growth of algae is often a sign of urban
or agricultural pollution (e.g. sewage, manure or fertilizer run off)
providing nitrogen.

On Oct 3, 1:13*pm, wrote:
In article ,

wrote:
In seawater, most of the dissolved carbon dioxide is in the form of
the bicarbonate ion, rather than in the form of carbonate ion or
dissolved gas.

I'm trying to estimate the growth rate of a range of algae as a
function of dissolved CO2. Can algal photosynthesis use the HCO3- ion
directly? What about the CO3-- ion?

The basic biology books I've looked up only mention CO2, not the
dissolved ionic species, but it occurred to me that if algae had to
rely on CO2 gas then they'd starve to death.

Note that there's an equilibrium in water between carbonate, bicarbonate
and carbon dioxide, so even if the plants have to 'grab' the CO2 as it
forms, they can get it even at seawater pH where it's in very low
concentration. *But since CO2 immediately forms carbonic acid ('hydrogen
bicarbonate') in water, I suspect that even land plants actually use it
in bicarbonate form.

I don't know what the growth-limiting factor is in marine algae in
nature, but IIRC nitrogen is a more important factor than carbon. *
In fresh water, explosive growth of algae is often a sign of urban
or agricultural pollution (e.g. sewage, manure or fertilizer run off)
providing nitrogen.

I would reccomend that you contact the University of Galway Ireland
where there is extensive research going on with salt water algae

On Oct 3, 11:28*am, "
wrote:
In seawater, most of the dissolved carbon dioxide is in the form of
the bicarbonate ion, rather than in the form of carbonate ion or
dissolved gas.

I'm trying to estimate the growth rate of a range of algae as a
function of dissolved CO2. Can algal photosynthesis use the HCO3- ion
directly? What about the CO3-- ion?

The basic biology books I've looked up only mention CO2, not the
dissolved ionic species, but it occurred to me that if algae had to
rely on CO2 gas then they'd starve to death.

clearly they are green and use carbon to grow so I assume they take
if from the air , I see millions of tons grow on lake eyre in south
australia , all eaten by brine shrimp , who are eaten by fish, who
are eaten by thousands of pelicans who then fly away with millions of
kg of pelican meat ,= carbon sink ??

Iv studied the growth of algae in the field for many years , but have
nil idea of what happens in the atomic level

Lake Eyre in South Australia and the mound springs nearby and the gulf
saint vincent have amazing natural areas if anybody is interested in
algae research , clearly this subject is going to attract more
attention now they have seen the links between carbon and algae


My interest started by noticing the extra growth seen in camels
drinking from certain metal water troughs that was noticed many years
ago

The Iron and algae link is well established , but not well appreciated
YET , the huge production potential is mind boggling , I myself see
algae as camel feed , grown on sea water , and then using camel fat as
a fuel ,like whale oil was in the past , in remote areas it is
practicle and cost effective now as a converter of algae into fuel
using camels ,in remote areas with very little effort you can produce
all the oil you need for free , i even ran my fridge cooking lights
and water heater on camel oil/fat instead of kero or gas

Once you start doing the field tests it wont take long to convince you
that iron fertilization and algae are the only area to be IMHO in
regard to carbon storage there is nothing else gets close

an interesting recent article i read


'Geo-engineering' might save planet: scientist
Published Monday September 29th, 2008
Global Warming Fertilizing oceans to grow plankton could remove a
gigatonne of carbon per year, lecturer believes

Nothing, at this stage, will save the Greenland ice cap from melting,
raising oceans several feet, says Victor Shahed Smetacek.

Only a massive feat of "geo-engineering" can save the Antarctic ice
cap from doing the same, the professor of bio-oceanography at the
University of Bremen, Germany, said in an interview from Halifax.

Humanity, led by the United Nations, must remove huge quantities of
carbon dioxide from the air over the next century, he will argue in an
address at Mount Allison University this week.

Smetacek, born in India of an Indian mother and German father,
attended the conference in Halifax this month of the International
Council for the Exploration of the Sea.

A talk on rising oceans might interest an audience at a university in
Sackville, on the Tantramar marsh.

Today, he will speak as part of the President's Speakers Series on
Climate Change and Global Citizenship. On Tuesday he will launch the
vice-president's seminar series Evolution: 150 Years of Darwin with a
lecture, "Understanding plankton evolution in the framework of the
arms race."

Phytoplankton, microscopic organisms, might save humanity, he argues.

Smetacek quite seriously proposes to fertilize vast areas of the
southern oceans deficient in iron to promote plankton to absorb carbon
dioxide from the air through photosynthetic uptake.

Skeletons of dead plankton compose a large part of the sludge at the
bottom of deep oceans. So, scientists must figure out how to promote
plankton that remove carbon from the air, then take it to the bottom
when they die.

We might remove a gigatonne - one trillion kilograms - of carbon from
the air each year, Smetacek says. Removing carbon at this rate might
save the south polar ice cap if other efforts continue to stop adding
more carbon, he said.

Depositing a whole gigatonne of carbon at the bottom of the sea might
sound like an effort worthy of Archimedes, the ancient Greek
mathematician and engineer who said that he could move the Earth if he
had a place to stand with his pry bar.

However, it would take only five to 10 ocean-going ships, possibly
tankers or ore carriers, to fertilize the oceans each year with iron
sulphate, a waste product from smelting titanium and iron, he said.
http://nbbusinessjournal.canadaeast....article/430506
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a far cheaper method of simply adding used waste" tin" [ iron ] food
cans to the oceans, near the coast ,will achieve exactly the same
carbon storage as iron sulphate in the deep oceans

once the expert discover the oceans are all connected and so is the
air , it matters not where you add the iron , except where other
pollutants are already present algae blooms dont happen as the tins
rust slowly and algae is eaten as it grows by krill and other
phytoplankton

adding waste tin cans to the ocean will cure global warming, and
increase fish stocks dramatically, for almost nothing , , by
replacing iron we no longer let reach the seas because of increased
irrigation , once the experts are forced to get off the gravy train
and ask those who have already proven it works

anybody can test it out for little cost , simply add a ton of old tin
cans in a wire cage to the sea and watch it for a few months and you
too will know how to cure global warming for free

it is that simple , cage them up or scattered makes little
difference , the krill will eat the rapidly growing algae and the fish
will eat the krill , we eat the fish , and remove carbon for free

old tin cans will cure global warming for free, in ten years, once
they try everything else first

kangarooistan

Good point..now I can't sleep until I know the answer.... i guess I'd have to spend a lot of time tonight and try to Google it since the library is close.