Well, I almost ruined another spade today as using it for leverage.
And am happily on the way to transplanting most of the asparagus.

My transplanting is to save those which have been crowded out
from sunlight such as tulips, peonies, lilies, rhubarb and asparagus.
And some black walnut trees.

I should be done by now in the middle of May, but only 2/3 done.
I never realized how much there was to transplant.

And the pick-axe has been valuable for the asparagus clumps.

But I was wondering how in the world do bulbs of tulips, lilies get
buried so deep. I never planted them that deep but they seem
to go deeper and deeper. Do they somehow sense how deep
they need to be in order to survive winter?

Also, I am convinced that the best orchard and lawns are with
animals pastured so as to continually fertilize the grounds.
My grass is the greenest and healthiest after two years of horse,
donkey, Llama. It is mostly their urine. And it requires some
protection to some plants such as bushes and low lying
trees.

I have found that small horses are the best since they do the
least damage to landscaping and stick mostly to eating grasses.

I tried Scottish highlander cow and bull and could see that it
was not going to work with the landscaping.


Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

But I was wondering how in the world do bulbs of tulips, lilies get
buried so deep. I never planted them that deep but they seem
to go deeper and deeper. Do they somehow sense how deep
they need to be in order to survive winter?

I believe that at the end of their growing season, the roots of many
bulbs and contract, pulling the bulbs/corms deeper into the soil. This
is especially true of plants which form new bulblets or corms at th tops
of the old ones.

M. Reed

monique wrote:
But I was wondering how in the world do bulbs of tulips, lilies get
buried so deep. I never planted them that deep but they seem
to go deeper and deeper. Do they somehow sense how deep
they need to be in order to survive winter?

I believe that at the end of their growing season, the roots of many
bulbs and contract, pulling the bulbs/corms deeper into the soil. This
is especially true of plants which form new bulblets or corms at th tops
of the old ones.

M. Reed

Alright lets call your hypothesis the (1) "Root Contracting
Hypothesis" to explain
how bulbs end up deeper than initially planted.

Let me offer two other hypotheses worth checking into:

(2) The bulb in spring grows below the bulb of the previous season
where
the entire bulb of a spring season acts as a root, and roots grow
deeper into
the soil. So we think of the bulb as a root itself and roots grow
deeper. Conceivably
an old bulb could find its way too deep and thus die in that season.

(3) Let us call this hypothesis the "Action has an equal and opposite
reaction".
That bulbs have to press upwards of their leaf tissue and in so doing
of pressing
upwards that the opposite reaction is to press the bulb itself
downwards deeper
into the soil.

Now today I dug up and transplanted some tulips that had been planted
in fine
topsoil of little to no clay present and they had been there for 20
years and were
rather shallow. So it seems as though the bulbs in a clay soil tend to
end up deep
into the soil. And if that is true, it would seem to favor Hypothesis
#3 in that
the action of the shoots trying to get up and out of the soil puts a
pressure on the
bulb to go deeper.

Be rather interesting to experiment on this, if someone has the time
and patience.
But it may also have an answer as to why some bulbs die in a few years
while
others can thrive for 20 years. The answer maybe all in whether it is
clay soil
or not clay.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

wrote in
:



monique wrote:
But I was wondering how in the world do bulbs of tulips, lilies get
buried so deep. I never planted them that deep but they seem
to go deeper and deeper. Do they somehow sense how deep
they need to be in order to survive winter?

I believe that at the end of their growing season, the roots of many
bulbs and contract, pulling the bulbs/corms deeper into the soil.
This is especially true of plants which form new bulblets or corms at
th tops of the old ones.


That could conceivable happen with bulbs, but in my experience, corms
grow on top of last year's corm, which would tend to push them up.



M. Reed

Alright lets call your hypothesis the (1) "Root Contracting
Hypothesis" to explain
how bulbs end up deeper than initially planted.

Let me offer two other hypotheses worth checking into:

(2) The bulb in spring grows below the bulb of the previous season
where
the entire bulb of a spring season acts as a root, and roots grow
deeper into
the soil. So we think of the bulb as a root itself and roots grow
deeper. Conceivably
an old bulb could find its way too deep and thus die in that season.

I have not seen this, however, I have seen bulbs grow lopsided below the
root disk, effectivly deepening the bulb's position, this generally
occurs on things such as tulips that were planted too shallowly.



(3) Let us call this hypothesis the "Action has an equal and opposite
reaction".
That bulbs have to press upwards of their leaf tissue and in so doing
of pressing
upwards that the opposite reaction is to press the bulb itself
downwards deeper
into the soil.

Because of the shape of most bulbs, and the presence of roots, I doubt
if this method actually happens.


Now today I dug up and transplanted some tulips that had been planted
in fine
topsoil of little to no clay present and they had been there for 20
years and were
rather shallow. So it seems as though the bulbs in a clay soil tend to
end up deep
into the soil. And if that is true, it would seem to favor Hypothesis
#3 in that
the action of the shoots trying to get up and out of the soil puts a
pressure on the
bulb to go deeper.

Be rather interesting to experiment on this, if someone has the time
and patience.
But it may also have an answer as to why some bulbs die in a few years
while
others can thrive for 20 years. The answer maybe all in whether it is
clay soil
or not clay.


Some bulbs are well adapted for a variety of climates and soil
conditions, and others aren't. Some are long lived by nature, and others
aren't.

Sean

Sean Houtman wrote:
wrote in
:



monique wrote:
But I was wondering how in the world do bulbs of tulips, lilies get
buried so deep. I never planted them that deep but they seem
to go deeper and deeper. Do they somehow sense how deep
they need to be in order to survive winter?

I believe that at the end of their growing season, the roots of many
bulbs and contract, pulling the bulbs/corms deeper into the soil.
This is especially true of plants which form new bulblets or corms at
th tops of the old ones.


That could conceivable happen with bulbs, but in my experience, corms
grow on top of last year's corm, which would tend to push them up.



M. Reed

Alright lets call your hypothesis the (1) "Root Contracting
Hypothesis" to explain
how bulbs end up deeper than initially planted.

Let me offer two other hypotheses worth checking into:

(2) The bulb in spring grows below the bulb of the previous season
where
the entire bulb of a spring season acts as a root, and roots grow
deeper into
the soil. So we think of the bulb as a root itself and roots grow
deeper. Conceivably
an old bulb could find its way too deep and thus die in that season.

I have not seen this, however, I have seen bulbs grow lopsided below the
root disk, effectivly deepening the bulb's position, this generally
occurs on things such as tulips that were planted too shallowly.



(3) Let us call this hypothesis the "Action has an equal and opposite
reaction".
That bulbs have to press upwards of their leaf tissue and in so doing
of pressing
upwards that the opposite reaction is to press the bulb itself
downwards deeper
into the soil.

Because of the shape of most bulbs, and the presence of roots, I doubt
if this method actually happens.


Now today I dug up and transplanted some tulips that had been planted
in fine
topsoil of little to no clay present and they had been there for 20
years and were
rather shallow. So it seems as though the bulbs in a clay soil tend to
end up deep
into the soil. And if that is true, it would seem to favor Hypothesis
#3 in that
the action of the shoots trying to get up and out of the soil puts a
pressure on the
bulb to go deeper.

Be rather interesting to experiment on this, if someone has the time
and patience.
But it may also have an answer as to why some bulbs die in a few years
while
others can thrive for 20 years. The answer maybe all in whether it is
clay soil
or not clay.


Some bulbs are well adapted for a variety of climates and soil
conditions, and others aren't. Some are long lived by nature, and others
aren't.

Sean

Sean, I would not dismiss the third hypothesis-- Action, Reaction, too
easily.
Perhaps what is going on with bulbs is a "physics lesson" of sorts.
Suppose
we plant the bulbs too shallow in loose dirt, then the stem of the
tulip has
a hard time of keeping the leaves intact, especially a windy
environment.

But now, if the bulb is buried deep, it has all that dirt to support
the leaf structure.
The dirt, here is sort of like a anchor for the leaf.

So that as the leaf grows it gives a opposite direction of pushing the
bulb deeper
into the soil.

In this way, bulbs planted too shallow run the risk of not having any
leaves
for the season and dying out. Bulbs that can push themselves deeper
into the
soil have a better chance of surviving 20 years.

This bulb question should be easy enough to experiment with and find
the
correct answer. I happen to think the answer is that the Action
Reaction of
leaf to bulb.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

wrote in news:d2aac300-c9df-4934-baca-
:

This bulb question should be easy enough to experiment with and find
the
correct answer. I happen to think the answer is that the Action
Reaction of
leaf to bulb.


The bulb is a living thing and capable of growing. It is also possible for
the bulb to just grow downwards. Roots grow downwards, they are not pushed
into the soil by force transmitted through the stem from the leaves above.

Sean

Sean Houtman wrote:
wrote in news:d2aac300-c9df-4934-baca-
:

This bulb question should be easy enough to experiment with and find
the
correct answer. I happen to think the answer is that the Action
Reaction of
leaf to bulb.


The bulb is a living thing and capable of growing. It is also possible for
the bulb to just grow downwards. Roots grow downwards, they are not pushed
into the soil by force transmitted through the stem from the leaves above.

Sean

Yes, that was my 2nd hypothesis where the bulb acts like a root.

Now to test experiment these hypothesis we get a glass like container
and
have various types of soils especially some clay soil and plant them
not so deep and use some marker as to the lowest point they are
planted.
And then pull them out every so often and check and see if they have
moved deeper.

See if they moved deeper because of the Springtime leaves moving
upwards.
Or see if they move deeper due to their roots.

Or if they do not move at all.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies