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Old 26-04-2003, 01:28 PM
Archimedes Plutonium
 
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Default 5' diameter Burr Oak; oldest in South Dakota?

I own a large burr oak, in fact a cluster of about 5 burr oak trees. The
largest
of which is approx. 5' in diameter trunk. I hate to cut it down if this
tree is
the oldest burr oak in South Dakota. Anyone in South Dakota have a
larger
Burr Oak than this?

Question: I know oak is hard wood. And from looking at the growth
patterns
of oak versus hickory. I am wondering how is it that hickory wood can
withstand
shock and heavy use in tool handles. Oak trees generally can put out
limbs
that are almost parallel to the ground. But hickory cannot do that.
Cannot bear
the weight of parallelism to the ground.

So, somewhere in the evolution of trees, the oak wood was able to evolve
a
wood that is so strong it can parallel the ground but the hickory wood
never
was able to parallel the ground.

So, is hickory wood really the best wood for tool handles or is oak wood

better? There maybe a difference in tensile strength and supporting
strength.

Question: does hickory grow in England? I am remembering that the
trebuchet
was built with oak timbers. If hickory grows in England, why did they
not
use hickory timbers for their trebuchets.

I seem to be detecting a contradiction here. We are come to believe that
hickory
is the strongest wood for shock and tool handles. But is that really
true. Since
hickory trees cannot grow limbs parallel with the ground, suggests that
the
hickory wood is really not as strong as the oak wood.

My guess is that oak is the strongest wood because it can grow limbs
parallel
to the ground with much ease. But that oak is more difficult to work
with
in crafting a tool handle whereas the hickory is so much easier for a
craftsman
to fashion into a tool handle. So that the endconclusion is that oak is
the
superior hard wood and that hickory is just easier to work with.

P.S. Can I trim some limbs off of this 5' oak without killing the tree.
One
limb runs clear across my yard and is parallel to the ground and so
unsightly. Do Burr Oak like being trimmed or do they hate it?

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies


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Old 26-04-2003, 01:28 PM
P van Rijckevorsel
 
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Default 5' diameter Burr Oak; oldest in South Dakota?

Archimedes Plutonium schreef
I own a large burr oak, in fact a cluster of about 5 burr oak trees. The

largest of which is approx. 5' in diameter trunk. I hate to cut it down if
this tree is the oldest burr oak in South Dakota. Anyone in South Dakota
have a larger Burr Oak than this?

+ + +
The biggest oak and the oldest oak may well be two different things
+ + +

Question: I know oak is a hard wood. And from looking at the growth

patterns of oak versus hickory I am wondering how is it that hickory wood
can withstand shock and heavy use in tool handles.

Oak trees generally can put out limbs that are almost parallel to the

ground. But hickory cannot do that. Cannot bear the weight of parallelism to
the ground.

So, is hickory wood really the best wood for tool handles or is oak wood

better? There maybe a difference in tensile strength and supporting
strength.

+ + +
The properties of wood are measured from clear trunk wood.
Hickory is the superior wood for tool handles which have to stand impact
(read hammer & axe handles). It will take more strength to break a hickory
handle than an oak handle of identical dimensions

Oak is a pretty strong wood too. IIRC it was one of the woods medieval
knights used for lances in tournaments

However the weight of branches is not directly supported by trunk wood but
by special wood around the base of a branch.
+ + +

Question: does hickory grow in England?


+ + +
These days it does but mostly in Arboreta: these become big trees and they
canot be transplanted. So to grow a hickory tree you need to really plan
ahead. Also they do not grow really fast
+ + +

I am remembering that the trebuchet was built with oak timbers. If hickory

grows in England, why did they not use hickory timbers for their trebuchets.

I seem to be detecting a contradiction here. We are come to believe that

hickory is the strongest wood for shock and tool handles. But is that really
true?

+ + +
Yes it is. Matter of measuring
+ + +

Since hickory trees cannot grow limbs parallel with the ground, suggests

that the hickory wood is really not as strong as the oak wood.

My guess is that oak is the strongest wood because it can grow limbs

parallel to the ground with much ease.

+ + +
In the golden age of wooden warships special pieces of oak, with a natural
bend in them (a branch with trunk wood) were used for the frame of
warships.
+ + +

But that oak is more difficult to work with in crafting a tool handle

whereas the hickory is so much easier for a craftsman to fashion into a tool
handle.

+ + +
This proves not to be the case
+ + +

So that the endconclusion is that oak is the superior hard wood and that

hickory is just easier to work with.

+ + +
Oak is more durable and therefor for most purposes a hardwood superior to
hickory, but not in strength.
+ + +

P.S. Can I trim some limbs off of this 5' oak without killing the tree.

One limb runs clear across my yard and is parallel to the ground and so
unsightly. Do Burr Oak like being trimmed or do they hate it?

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies


+ + +
All trees hate it when big limbs are trimmed off (the trick is to do it when
they are little).
Some trees can stand it fairly well.
Oaks do not seem to be among them.
I don't know about Burr Oak
PvR








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Old 26-04-2003, 01:28 PM
Martin Rand
 
Posts: n/a
Default 5' diameter Burr Oak; oldest in South Dakota?

On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 12:47:50 -0600, Archimedes Plutonium
wrote:

[snip]
Question: does hickory grow in England? I am remembering that the
trebuchet
was built with oak timbers. If hickory grows in England, why did they
not
use hickory timbers for their trebuchets.


No native Hickory in England. Half a dozen species have been planted
in parks and collections, introduced at various times since the 17th
century. They are all uncommon; probably the commonest is Bitternut
(Carya cordiformis). On the other hand, one species of Walnut (Juglans
regia) is quite commonly planted at least in the South.

BTW Ash (Fraxinus excelsior) was traditionally often used here for
tool handles. Machine parts were often made of Hornbeam (Carpinus
betulus) where it was available, for reasons made obvious by its name.

--
Martin (off-duty)
Chandlers Ford, Hampshire
  #4   Report Post  
Old 26-04-2003, 01:28 PM
Archimedes Plutonium
 
Posts: n/a
Default 5' diameter Burr Oak; oldest in South Dakota?



Sat, 04 Jan 2003 06:40:24 +0000 Martin Rand wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jan 2003 12:47:50 -0600, Archimedes Plutonium
wrote:

[snip]
Question: does hickory grow in England? I am remembering that the
trebuchet
was built with oak timbers. If hickory grows in England, why did they
not
use hickory timbers for their trebuchets.


No native Hickory in England. Half a dozen species have been planted
in parks and collections, introduced at various times since the 17th
century. They are all uncommon; probably the commonest is Bitternut
(Carya cordiformis). On the other hand, one species of Walnut (Juglans
regia) is quite commonly planted at least in the South.

BTW Ash (Fraxinus excelsior) was traditionally often used here for
tool handles. Machine parts were often made of Hornbeam (Carpinus
betulus) where it was available, for reasons made obvious by its name.

--
Martin (off-duty)
Chandlers Ford, Hampshire


Yes, what I am trying to communicate to PvR, is that evolution had to
have
played some major role as to why hickory wood and ash wood are more
shock resistant than oak. Something environmental must have played some
major role in the fashioning of a wood that is superior to shock.

Ash wood also seems to be shock resistant to a high degree and both
ash and hickory seem to form the same "physics of weight bearing" for
their trunks and limbs.

Now elm is a tough wood in that it has cross-threading to enable it to
spread out as a pitcher silhouette. But oak takes the prize in that its
limbs can run parrallel to the ground for long distances.

I do not see anything of the environment of Southern USA that would
Evolutionarily Select for a highly shock resistant tree wood of hickory
and
ash.

Except for one possibility. That Oaks and elms were so dominant that
the only selective gain the ash and hickory could muster was to grow
taller and skinner than oak and elm. But to grow tall and skinny they
had to have a wood more shock resistant to the winds than their
crowding out neighbors of oak and elm.

Hickory and ash superior shock resistance does not form from a fluke of
nature but has to have some sort of competitive environmental answer as
to why create a wood genetics that possess superior shock.

Archimedes Plutonium,
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies



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