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apple seedlings
Is there a place where I can find apples which have not grown near
crab apple trees, for planting seedlings? I heard that phyto-hormones can make seed sterile. Is it true? |
apple seedlings
Many phyto-hormones are used as weed killers in the proper dosage.
Not advisable to grow apples from seeds because the hybrids will not come true. "Mihai Cartoaje" wrote in message om... Is there a place where I can find apples which have not grown near crab apple trees, for planting seedlings? I heard that phyto-hormones can make seed sterile. Is it true? |
apple seedlings
"Cereus-validus" wrote in message .com...
Not advisable to grow apples from seeds because the hybrids will not come true. I have read on it, although if someone has experience with hybrids from non-crab apples, it would be interesting to read about. I thought about planting seedlings because, - Here in Quebec, (zone 4b agriculture canada 2000, 3 USDA, -40 Celsius in winter), farmers plant McIntoshes and Cortland. I was counting on the 10 to 20 Celsius degrees of extra cold resistance seedlings have. - Apple trees prefer sexual reproduction. |
apple seedlings
"Cereus-validus" wrote in message .com...
Not advisable to grow apples from seeds because the hybrids will not come true. I have read on it, although if someone has experience with hybrids from non-crab apples, it would be interesting to read about. I thought about planting seedlings because, - Here in Quebec, (zone 4b agriculture canada 2000, 3 USDA, -40 Celsius in winter), farmers plant McIntoshes and Cortland. I was counting on the 10 to 20 Celsius degrees of extra cold resistance seedlings have. - Apple trees prefer sexual reproduction. |
apple seedlings
Is there a place where I can find apples which have not grown near crab
apple trees, for planting seedlings? For what purpose? Commercial apple orchards normally do not contain crabapple trees, which are primarily grown as ornamentals in home gardens. There is no point in amateurs growing apples from seed, except to amuse the children. Open pollinated seedling fruit trees probably will not produce fruit for 10 years or more, and then the fruit is likely to be inferior to named cultivars. The only reason for growing apple trees from seed is with controlled pollination for hybridizers to produce superior varieties. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
apple seedlings
Is there a place where I can find apples which have not grown near crab
apple trees, for planting seedlings? For what purpose? Commercial apple orchards normally do not contain crabapple trees, which are primarily grown as ornamentals in home gardens. There is no point in amateurs growing apples from seed, except to amuse the children. Open pollinated seedling fruit trees probably will not produce fruit for 10 years or more, and then the fruit is likely to be inferior to named cultivars. The only reason for growing apple trees from seed is with controlled pollination for hybridizers to produce superior varieties. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
apple seedlings
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apple seedlings
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apple seedlings
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apple seedlings
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apple seedlings
(Mihai Cartoaje) wrote in message . com...
(David Hershey) wrote in message . com... Many apple cultivars are self-sterile so cannot self-pollinate. Apple orchards of these self-sterile cultivars must contain a second cultivar as a pollenizer. Therefore, seeds of some cultivars will be hybrids of two cultivars. However, each seedling with two parents will be slightly different because of the "mixing" of genes that occurs in sexual reproduction. A possible explanation of the lower quality of most hybrids is if bad genes are recessive, so alleles (hope I'm using the word correctly) of hybrids would contain two recessive bad genes. Maybe the bad genes shall be weeded out by further selection. If you propose to do that, you will need much land and many years, as seedlings will grow full size and will not bear (and cannot be evaluated) for several years. It isn't just a matter of deleterious recessive genes showing up in the offspring of hybrids. While hybridization does seek to block the expression of these genes, it is not the only or even the most important objective. The hybridizer seeks a particular combination of genes that gives fruit of the desired qualities, and that desired combination of genes is present only in the F1 hybrid generation; the F2 will be diverse, and few if any of the seedlings will have the combination selected by the hybridizer. If the experience of others is a guide, most of the seedlings will produce either crab apples or no usable fruit at all, and you may go through many generations and thousands of trees to find one that not only produces satisfactory fruit but also breeds true. -- Chris Green |
apple seedlings
(Mihai Cartoaje) wrote in message . com...
(David Hershey) wrote in message . com... Many apple cultivars are self-sterile so cannot self-pollinate. Apple orchards of these self-sterile cultivars must contain a second cultivar as a pollenizer. Therefore, seeds of some cultivars will be hybrids of two cultivars. However, each seedling with two parents will be slightly different because of the "mixing" of genes that occurs in sexual reproduction. A possible explanation of the lower quality of most hybrids is if bad genes are recessive, so alleles (hope I'm using the word correctly) of hybrids would contain two recessive bad genes. Maybe the bad genes shall be weeded out by further selection. If you propose to do that, you will need much land and many years, as seedlings will grow full size and will not bear (and cannot be evaluated) for several years. It isn't just a matter of deleterious recessive genes showing up in the offspring of hybrids. While hybridization does seek to block the expression of these genes, it is not the only or even the most important objective. The hybridizer seeks a particular combination of genes that gives fruit of the desired qualities, and that desired combination of genes is present only in the F1 hybrid generation; the F2 will be diverse, and few if any of the seedlings will have the combination selected by the hybridizer. If the experience of others is a guide, most of the seedlings will produce either crab apples or no usable fruit at all, and you may go through many generations and thousands of trees to find one that not only produces satisfactory fruit but also breeds true. -- Chris Green |
apple seedlings
(Mihai Cartoaje) wrote in message . com...
(David Hershey) wrote in message . com... Many apple cultivars are self-sterile so cannot self-pollinate. Apple orchards of these self-sterile cultivars must contain a second cultivar as a pollenizer. Therefore, seeds of some cultivars will be hybrids of two cultivars. However, each seedling with two parents will be slightly different because of the "mixing" of genes that occurs in sexual reproduction. A possible explanation of the lower quality of most hybrids is if bad genes are recessive, so alleles (hope I'm using the word correctly) of hybrids would contain two recessive bad genes. Maybe the bad genes shall be weeded out by further selection. If you propose to do that, you will need much land and many years, as seedlings will grow full size and will not bear (and cannot be evaluated) for several years. It isn't just a matter of deleterious recessive genes showing up in the offspring of hybrids. While hybridization does seek to block the expression of these genes, it is not the only or even the most important objective. The hybridizer seeks a particular combination of genes that gives fruit of the desired qualities, and that desired combination of genes is present only in the F1 hybrid generation; the F2 will be diverse, and few if any of the seedlings will have the combination selected by the hybridizer. If the experience of others is a guide, most of the seedlings will produce either crab apples or no usable fruit at all, and you may go through many generations and thousands of trees to find one that not only produces satisfactory fruit but also breeds true. -- Chris Green |
apple seedlings
Mihai Cartoaje schreef
A possible explanation of the lower quality of most hybrids is if bad genes are recessive, so alleles (hope I'm using the word correctly) of hybrids would contain two recessive bad genes. Maybe the bad genes shall be weeded out by further selection. + + + The other way about. A gene is a particular area of DNA with a certain function. An allele is one of several possible variants of the gene, so selection (natural or artificial) eliminates 'bad' alleles, not 'bad' genes. You cannot select for genes, and if you manage to do so anyway there is a fair chance you get a new species (as this would mean altering the scope of the genome). BTW, it is very anthropocentric to speak of alleles being 'bad' or 'good'. Mostly alleles just are, and are advantageous or not depending on circumstance. Of course, colloquially genes are referred to in the reverse of the true situation. Hope this clarifies it, PvR If this is less than crystal clear, just use a book, any decent book! |
apple seedlings
(Mihai Cartoaje) wrote in message . com...
(David Hershey) wrote in message . com... Many apple cultivars are self-sterile so cannot self-pollinate. Apple orchards of these self-sterile cultivars must contain a second cultivar as a pollenizer. Therefore, seeds of some cultivars will be hybrids of two cultivars. However, each seedling with two parents will be slightly different because of the "mixing" of genes that occurs in sexual reproduction. A possible explanation of the lower quality of most hybrids is if bad genes are recessive, so alleles (hope I'm using the word correctly) of hybrids would contain two recessive bad genes. Maybe the bad genes shall be weeded out by further selection. If you propose to do that, you will need much land and many years, as seedlings will grow full size and will not bear (and cannot be evaluated) for several years. It isn't just a matter of deleterious recessive genes showing up in the offspring of hybrids. While hybridization does seek to block the expression of these genes, it is not the only or even the most important objective. The hybridizer seeks a particular combination of genes that gives fruit of the desired qualities, and that desired combination of genes is present only in the F1 hybrid generation; the F2 will be diverse, and few if any of the seedlings will have the combination selected by the hybridizer. If the experience of others is a guide, most of the seedlings will produce either crab apples or no usable fruit at all, and you may go through many generations and thousands of trees to find one that not only produces satisfactory fruit but also breeds true. -- Chris Green |
apple seedlings
Mihai Cartoaje schreef
A possible explanation of the lower quality of most hybrids is if bad genes are recessive, so alleles (hope I'm using the word correctly) of hybrids would contain two recessive bad genes. Maybe the bad genes shall be weeded out by further selection. + + + The other way about. A gene is a particular area of DNA with a certain function. An allele is one of several possible variants of the gene, so selection (natural or artificial) eliminates 'bad' alleles, not 'bad' genes. You cannot select for genes, and if you manage to do so anyway there is a fair chance you get a new species (as this would mean altering the scope of the genome). BTW, it is very anthropocentric to speak of alleles being 'bad' or 'good'. Mostly alleles just are, and are advantageous or not depending on circumstance. Of course, colloquially genes are referred to in the reverse of the true situation. Hope this clarifies it, PvR If this is less than crystal clear, just use a book, any decent book! |
apple seedlings
Mihai Cartoaje schreef
A possible explanation of the lower quality of most hybrids is if bad genes are recessive, so alleles (hope I'm using the word correctly) of hybrids would contain two recessive bad genes. Maybe the bad genes shall be weeded out by further selection. + + + The other way about. A gene is a particular area of DNA with a certain function. An allele is one of several possible variants of the gene, so selection (natural or artificial) eliminates 'bad' alleles, not 'bad' genes. You cannot select for genes, and if you manage to do so anyway there is a fair chance you get a new species (as this would mean altering the scope of the genome). BTW, it is very anthropocentric to speak of alleles being 'bad' or 'good'. Mostly alleles just are, and are advantageous or not depending on circumstance. Of course, colloquially genes are referred to in the reverse of the true situation. Hope this clarifies it, PvR If this is less than crystal clear, just use a book, any decent book! |
apple seedlings
I was counting on the 10 to 20 Celsius degrees of extra cold resistance
seedlings have. BRBR Seedlings are not likely to have any more cold resistance than their parents. Actually, for harsh climates, the usual practice is to graft the desirable cultivar onto a very hardy rootstock. This is done with a wide variety of fruit trees and ornamental plants. Apple trees prefer sexual reproduction. Did they tell you this? I assure you the apple tree does not care whether it is a seedling, cutting, or graft, as long as it has enough water, sun, nutrients, & favorable temperatures. The only difference is that a seedling will take ten or 20 years to bear fruit, while a cutting or graft will start bearing very quickly. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
apple seedlings
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apple seedlings
"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message .. .
The other way about. A gene is a particular area of DNA with a certain function. An allele is one of several possible variants of the gene, so selection (natural or artificial) eliminates 'bad' alleles, not 'bad' genes. I have researched in a biology book. Two genes might be alleles, or they might not be alleles. |
apple seedlings
"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message .. .
The other way about. A gene is a particular area of DNA with a certain Those are loci. |
apple seedlings
Give this dude a cigar!!!
He actually read a book!!!! Believe it or not, there's a lot more where that one came from. The place is called a library. Check it out. "Mihai Cartoaje" wrote in message m... "P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message .. . The other way about. A gene is a particular area of DNA with a certain function. An allele is one of several possible variants of the gene, so selection (natural or artificial) eliminates 'bad' alleles, not 'bad' genes. I have researched in a biology book. Two genes might be alleles, or they might not be alleles. |
apple seedlings
Give this dude a cigar!!!
He actually read a book!!!! Believe it or not, there's a lot more where that one came from. The place is called a library. Check it out. "Mihai Cartoaje" wrote in message m... "P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message .. . The other way about. A gene is a particular area of DNA with a certain function. An allele is one of several possible variants of the gene, so selection (natural or artificial) eliminates 'bad' alleles, not 'bad' genes. I have researched in a biology book. Two genes might be alleles, or they might not be alleles. |
apple seedlings
"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote
The other way about. A gene is a particular area of DNA with a certain function. An allele is one of several possible variants of the gene, so selection (natural or artificial) eliminates 'bad' alleles, not 'bad' genes. Mihai Cartoaje schreef I have researched in a biology book. Two genes might be alleles, or they might not be alleles. + + + No. You either have a bad book (not sure if they exist) or you read wrong. Try a new book. PvR |
apple seedlings
"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote
The other way about. A gene is a particular area of DNA with a certain function Mihai Cartoaje schreef Those are loci. + + + No, a gene is a functional unit. A locus is (as the word says) the place (of the gene) on a chromosome. PvR |
apple seedlings
"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote
The other way about. A gene is a particular area of DNA with a certain function. An allele is one of several possible variants of the gene, so selection (natural or artificial) eliminates 'bad' alleles, not 'bad' genes. Mihai Cartoaje schreef I have researched in a biology book. Two genes might be alleles, or they might not be alleles. + + + No. You either have a bad book (not sure if they exist) or you read wrong. Try a new book. PvR |
apple seedlings
"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote
The other way about. A gene is a particular area of DNA with a certain function Mihai Cartoaje schreef Those are loci. + + + No, a gene is a functional unit. A locus is (as the word says) the place (of the gene) on a chromosome. PvR |
apple seedlings
"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message ...
No. You either have a bad book (not sure if they exist) or you read wrong. Try a new book. Solomon, Eldra Pearl, et al. Biology. 3rd edition. Sunders, Forth Worth, 1993. Page 233: "If genes occupy the same locus on each of a pair of chromosomes, they are said to be alleles." They use the expression "not allelic" otherwise. I understand "allele" as "sister", except for genes. |
apple seedlings
"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message ...
No. You either have a bad book (not sure if they exist) or you read wrong. Try a new book. Solomon, Eldra Pearl, et al. Biology. 3rd edition. Sunders, Forth Worth, 1993. Page 233: "If genes occupy the same locus on each of a pair of chromosomes, they are said to be alleles." They use the expression "not allelic" otherwise. I understand "allele" as "sister", except for genes. |
apple seedlings
"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message ...
No. You either have a bad book (not sure if they exist) or you read wrong. Try a new book. Solomon, Eldra Pearl, et al. Biology. 3rd edition. Sunders, Forth Worth, 1993. Page 233: "If genes occupy the same locus on each of a pair of chromosomes, they are said to be alleles." They use the expression "not allelic" otherwise. I understand "allele" as "sister", except for genes. |
apple seedlings
Mihai Cartoaje schreef
Solomon, Eldra Pearl, et al. Biology. 3rd edition. Sunders, Forth Worth, 1993. Page 233: "If genes occupy the same locus on each of a pair of chromosomes, they are said to be alleles." + + + That is somewhat cryptic, and can indeed be misread. However, with a little effort, it can also be read correctly. What they apparently aim to say is that when a particular bit of the DNA codes for a hereditary property (is a gene), then when you look at the same locations on other specimens of this particular chromosome (the same locus), [they forget to mention that these bits should differ enough in the sequence of the bases for it to be reflected in the expression of this hereditary property, when they get the chance] then these bits are called alleles. I guess you should look at the accompanying drawing, or look in a book that has such a drawing. The use of "genes" here is slightly idiosyncratic. Also, they should perhaps have been a little more emphatic that alleles are form of a gene. Also, the "pair of chromosomes" is limiting this to a too restricted, and not necessarily relevant, subclass of this set. I suppose they do this to keep thing simple, but they fail. I would almost think that schoolbooks in the US are as bad as people say, but of course the sample is much too small to draw conclusions. Again, find a book with better pictures. PvR They use the expression "not allelic" otherwise. I understand "allele" as "sister", except for genes. |
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