Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

Yes seeds are alive.

Exactly which 4000 year old seeds found in the desert grew?

Your line of reasoning (if it can be called that) is based on a fable and
not fact.

There are also examples of animals, especially frogs and lung fish, that can
survive many years in hibernation and come out of it. But 4000 years is a
bit much to believe or even prove.

But then again there are the remarkable "water bears".

http://www.q7.com/~vvv/tardigrade/


"Miss Chanandler Bong" wrote in message
om...
Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

I took the 4000 year-old example from memory
and it may have been someone's exageration or
a myth, but some web research yielded information
about some seeds that remain viable after 1200
years. Here is a clip from that page:
-----------------------------------------------------
LOS ANGELES -- Scientists studying the origins
of life have germinated the oldest known seed ever
found -- a 1,200-year-old lotus seed from China.

"A little seed that slept for more than 1,000 years
sprouted in four days just like its modern sibling,"
plant physiologist Jane Shen-Miller, of the University
of California at Los Angeles, said Monday.

Her husband, paleobiologist William Schopf, who
heads UCLA's Center for the Study of Evolution
and the Origin of Life, said: "It seems impossible for
a plant miraculously to be brought back to life after
more than 1,000 years."
------------------------------------------------------
source:
http://www.flowerpictures.net/lotus/lotus_seeds.htm


"Cereus-validus" wrote in message
. ..
Yes seeds are alive.

Exactly which 4000 year old seeds found in the desert grew?

Your line of reasoning (if it can be called that) is based on a fable and
not fact.

There are also examples of animals, especially frogs and lung fish, that
can
survive many years in hibernation and come out of it. But 4000 years is a
bit much to believe or even prove.

But then again there are the remarkable "water bears".

http://www.q7.com/~vvv/tardigrade/


"Miss Chanandler Bong" wrote in message
om...
Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

I took the 4000 year-old example from memory
and it may have been someone's exageration or
a myth, but some web research yielded information
about some seeds that remain viable after 1200
years. Here is a clip from that page:
-----------------------------------------------------
LOS ANGELES -- Scientists studying the origins
of life have germinated the oldest known seed ever
found -- a 1,200-year-old lotus seed from China.

"A little seed that slept for more than 1,000 years
sprouted in four days just like its modern sibling,"
plant physiologist Jane Shen-Miller, of the University
of California at Los Angeles, said Monday.

Her husband, paleobiologist William Schopf, who
heads UCLA's Center for the Study of Evolution
and the Origin of Life, said: "It seems impossible for
a plant miraculously to be brought back to life after
more than 1,000 years."
------------------------------------------------------
source:
http://www.flowerpictures.net/lotus/lotus_seeds.htm


"Cereus-validus" wrote in message
. ..
Yes seeds are alive.

Exactly which 4000 year old seeds found in the desert grew?

Your line of reasoning (if it can be called that) is based on a fable and
not fact.

There are also examples of animals, especially frogs and lung fish, that
can
survive many years in hibernation and come out of it. But 4000 years is a
bit much to believe or even prove.

But then again there are the remarkable "water bears".

http://www.q7.com/~vvv/tardigrade/


"Miss Chanandler Bong" wrote in message
om...
Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

That's a far cry from a 4000 year old seed from the desert.

Still the 1200 year old claim is probably a bit of an exaggeration. After
all, the seed was found in a bog even though that wasn't stated in your
second-hand account.

Beware of anecdotal "believe it or not" accounts.


"Miss Chanandler Bong" wrote in message
. com...
I took the 4000 year-old example from memory
and it may have been someone's exageration or
a myth, but some web research yielded information
about some seeds that remain viable after 1200
years. Here is a clip from that page:
-----------------------------------------------------
LOS ANGELES -- Scientists studying the origins
of life have germinated the oldest known seed ever
found -- a 1,200-year-old lotus seed from China.

"A little seed that slept for more than 1,000 years
sprouted in four days just like its modern sibling,"
plant physiologist Jane Shen-Miller, of the University
of California at Los Angeles, said Monday.

Her husband, paleobiologist William Schopf, who
heads UCLA's Center for the Study of Evolution
and the Origin of Life, said: "It seems impossible for
a plant miraculously to be brought back to life after
more than 1,000 years."
------------------------------------------------------
source:
http://www.flowerpictures.net/lotus/lotus_seeds.htm


"Cereus-validus" wrote in message
. ..
Yes seeds are alive.

Exactly which 4000 year old seeds found in the desert grew?

Your line of reasoning (if it can be called that) is based on a fable
and
not fact.

There are also examples of animals, especially frogs and lung fish, that
can
survive many years in hibernation and come out of it. But 4000 years is
a
bit much to believe or even prove.

But then again there are the remarkable "water bears".

http://www.q7.com/~vvv/tardigrade/


"Miss Chanandler Bong" wrote in message
om...
Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

That's a far cry from a 4000 year old seed from the desert.

Still the 1200 year old claim is probably a bit of an exaggeration. After
all, the seed was found in a bog even though that wasn't stated in your
second-hand account.

Beware of anecdotal "believe it or not" accounts.


"Miss Chanandler Bong" wrote in message
. com...
I took the 4000 year-old example from memory
and it may have been someone's exageration or
a myth, but some web research yielded information
about some seeds that remain viable after 1200
years. Here is a clip from that page:
-----------------------------------------------------
LOS ANGELES -- Scientists studying the origins
of life have germinated the oldest known seed ever
found -- a 1,200-year-old lotus seed from China.

"A little seed that slept for more than 1,000 years
sprouted in four days just like its modern sibling,"
plant physiologist Jane Shen-Miller, of the University
of California at Los Angeles, said Monday.

Her husband, paleobiologist William Schopf, who
heads UCLA's Center for the Study of Evolution
and the Origin of Life, said: "It seems impossible for
a plant miraculously to be brought back to life after
more than 1,000 years."
------------------------------------------------------
source:
http://www.flowerpictures.net/lotus/lotus_seeds.htm


"Cereus-validus" wrote in message
. ..
Yes seeds are alive.

Exactly which 4000 year old seeds found in the desert grew?

Your line of reasoning (if it can be called that) is based on a fable
and
not fact.

There are also examples of animals, especially frogs and lung fish, that
can
survive many years in hibernation and come out of it. But 4000 years is
a
bit much to believe or even prove.

But then again there are the remarkable "water bears".

http://www.q7.com/~vvv/tardigrade/


"Miss Chanandler Bong" wrote in message
om...
Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

Here is an example of the confluence between qualitative language and
incompleter scientific knowledge. The problem is with our language
and limited direct experience with all the bizzare adaptations of
life forms. The range of properties we expect of "living" material is
expanding at a mindboggling rate with new research.. As we explore
more of the environmental extremes on earth. we continue to find life
existing in conditions which we thought impossible only a few years
ago. I strongly suspect we will find life forms in other locations
throughout the universe within a relatively short time period.

One of the bizarre aspects of certain life forms is the ability to
suspend metabolism when conditions dictate. It is a property which
has been documented many times over. We ought not to be so shocked
by the facts or limited in our ability to intregrate the knowledge.

Here is one report of radiocarbon dated seed about 3000 years old
being germinated.

http://askabiologist.asu.edu/researc...seeds_old.html

Another study of loongevity of seeds

http://newsbulletin.msu.edu/july27/beal.html

Accidental find....
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scite...ard020314.html

The oldest seed to germinate has not been found yet and the question
is still open to future investigation because finding these old seeds
to test is accidental.. .

Aaron






On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:21:43 GMT, "Miss Chanandler Bong"
wrote:

Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

Here is an example of the confluence between qualitative language and
incompleter scientific knowledge. The problem is with our language
and limited direct experience with all the bizzare adaptations of
life forms. The range of properties we expect of "living" material is
expanding at a mindboggling rate with new research.. As we explore
more of the environmental extremes on earth. we continue to find life
existing in conditions which we thought impossible only a few years
ago. I strongly suspect we will find life forms in other locations
throughout the universe within a relatively short time period.

One of the bizarre aspects of certain life forms is the ability to
suspend metabolism when conditions dictate. It is a property which
has been documented many times over. We ought not to be so shocked
by the facts or limited in our ability to intregrate the knowledge.

Here is one report of radiocarbon dated seed about 3000 years old
being germinated.

http://askabiologist.asu.edu/researc...seeds_old.html

Another study of loongevity of seeds

http://newsbulletin.msu.edu/july27/beal.html

Accidental find....
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scite...ard020314.html

The oldest seed to germinate has not been found yet and the question
is still open to future investigation because finding these old seeds
to test is accidental.. .

Aaron






On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:21:43 GMT, "Miss Chanandler Bong"
wrote:

Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

Despite you verbose (are you getting paid by the word?) pedant, the examples
you are link are still anecdotal and they fail to mention exactly what
plants these 400 year old seeds were. Are these supposed to be the same
lotus seeds that another report claimed were 1200 years old? It sure look
like they have gotten marked down along the way.

Weed seeds are well know to survive dormant for very long time buried in
deep soil but 400 years is a bit much.


"Aaron" wrote in message
...
Here is an example of the confluence between qualitative language and
incompleter scientific knowledge. The problem is with our language
and limited direct experience with all the bizzare adaptations of
life forms. The range of properties we expect of "living" material is
expanding at a mindboggling rate with new research.. As we explore
more of the environmental extremes on earth. we continue to find life
existing in conditions which we thought impossible only a few years
ago. I strongly suspect we will find life forms in other locations
throughout the universe within a relatively short time period.

One of the bizarre aspects of certain life forms is the ability to
suspend metabolism when conditions dictate. It is a property which
has been documented many times over. We ought not to be so shocked
by the facts or limited in our ability to intregrate the knowledge.

Here is one report of radiocarbon dated seed about 3000 years old
being germinated.

http://askabiologist.asu.edu/researc...seeds_old.html

Another study of loongevity of seeds

http://newsbulletin.msu.edu/july27/beal.html

Accidental find....
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scite...ard020314.html

The oldest seed to germinate has not been found yet and the question
is still open to future investigation because finding these old seeds
to test is accidental.. .

Aaron






On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:21:43 GMT, "Miss Chanandler Bong"
wrote:

Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

Despite you verbose (are you getting paid by the word?) pedant, the examples
you are link are still anecdotal and they fail to mention exactly what
plants these 400 year old seeds were. Are these supposed to be the same
lotus seeds that another report claimed were 1200 years old? It sure look
like they have gotten marked down along the way.

Weed seeds are well know to survive dormant for very long time buried in
deep soil but 400 years is a bit much.


"Aaron" wrote in message
...
Here is an example of the confluence between qualitative language and
incompleter scientific knowledge. The problem is with our language
and limited direct experience with all the bizzare adaptations of
life forms. The range of properties we expect of "living" material is
expanding at a mindboggling rate with new research.. As we explore
more of the environmental extremes on earth. we continue to find life
existing in conditions which we thought impossible only a few years
ago. I strongly suspect we will find life forms in other locations
throughout the universe within a relatively short time period.

One of the bizarre aspects of certain life forms is the ability to
suspend metabolism when conditions dictate. It is a property which
has been documented many times over. We ought not to be so shocked
by the facts or limited in our ability to intregrate the knowledge.

Here is one report of radiocarbon dated seed about 3000 years old
being germinated.

http://askabiologist.asu.edu/researc...seeds_old.html

Another study of loongevity of seeds

http://newsbulletin.msu.edu/july27/beal.html

Accidental find....
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scite...ard020314.html

The oldest seed to germinate has not been found yet and the question
is still open to future investigation because finding these old seeds
to test is accidental.. .

Aaron






On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:21:43 GMT, "Miss Chanandler Bong"
wrote:

Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

The first link, from Arizona State University, cited the work of Jane
Shen-Miller, a scientist working with old seeds. Her work is not
annecdotal, it is REAL EXPERIMENTAL SCIENCE. The seeds were
radiocarbon dated.

Do a google search for her work and you will find many reports of
seeds of varying longevity being germinated.

Aaron .



On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:35:31 GMT, "Cereus-validus"
wrote:

Despite you verbose (are you getting paid by the word?) pedant, the examples
you are link are still anecdotal and they fail to mention exactly what
plants these 400 year old seeds were. Are these supposed to be the same
lotus seeds that another report claimed were 1200 years old? It sure look
like they have gotten marked down along the way.

Weed seeds are well know to survive dormant for very long time buried in
deep soil but 400 years is a bit much.


"Aaron" wrote in message
.. .
Here is an example of the confluence between qualitative language and
incompleter scientific knowledge. The problem is with our language
and limited direct experience with all the bizzare adaptations of
life forms. The range of properties we expect of "living" material is
expanding at a mindboggling rate with new research.. As we explore
more of the environmental extremes on earth. we continue to find life
existing in conditions which we thought impossible only a few years
ago. I strongly suspect we will find life forms in other locations
throughout the universe within a relatively short time period.

One of the bizarre aspects of certain life forms is the ability to
suspend metabolism when conditions dictate. It is a property which
has been documented many times over. We ought not to be so shocked
by the facts or limited in our ability to intregrate the knowledge.

Here is one report of radiocarbon dated seed about 3000 years old
being germinated.

http://askabiologist.asu.edu/researc...seeds_old.html

Another study of loongevity of seeds

http://newsbulletin.msu.edu/july27/beal.html

Accidental find....
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scite...ard020314.html

The oldest seed to germinate has not been found yet and the question
is still open to future investigation because finding these old seeds
to test is accidental.. .

Aaron






On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:21:43 GMT, "Miss Chanandler Bong"
wrote:

Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

The first link, from Arizona State University, cited the work of Jane
Shen-Miller, a scientist working with old seeds. Her work is not
annecdotal, it is REAL EXPERIMENTAL SCIENCE. The seeds were
radiocarbon dated.

Do a google search for her work and you will find many reports of
seeds of varying longevity being germinated.

Aaron .



On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:35:31 GMT, "Cereus-validus"
wrote:

Despite you verbose (are you getting paid by the word?) pedant, the examples
you are link are still anecdotal and they fail to mention exactly what
plants these 400 year old seeds were. Are these supposed to be the same
lotus seeds that another report claimed were 1200 years old? It sure look
like they have gotten marked down along the way.

Weed seeds are well know to survive dormant for very long time buried in
deep soil but 400 years is a bit much.


"Aaron" wrote in message
.. .
Here is an example of the confluence between qualitative language and
incompleter scientific knowledge. The problem is with our language
and limited direct experience with all the bizzare adaptations of
life forms. The range of properties we expect of "living" material is
expanding at a mindboggling rate with new research.. As we explore
more of the environmental extremes on earth. we continue to find life
existing in conditions which we thought impossible only a few years
ago. I strongly suspect we will find life forms in other locations
throughout the universe within a relatively short time period.

One of the bizarre aspects of certain life forms is the ability to
suspend metabolism when conditions dictate. It is a property which
has been documented many times over. We ought not to be so shocked
by the facts or limited in our ability to intregrate the knowledge.

Here is one report of radiocarbon dated seed about 3000 years old
being germinated.

http://askabiologist.asu.edu/researc...seeds_old.html

Another study of loongevity of seeds

http://newsbulletin.msu.edu/july27/beal.html

Accidental find....
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scite...ard020314.html

The oldest seed to germinate has not been found yet and the question
is still open to future investigation because finding these old seeds
to test is accidental.. .

Aaron






On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:21:43 GMT, "Miss Chanandler Bong"
wrote:

Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

"Miss Chanandler Bong" wrote in message . com...
Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

A seed that germinates after 1,000 years would have been alive for
those 1,000 years but in a type of suspended animation. It may or may
not have been dormant. A dormant seed will not germinate even when
environmental conditions for germination are optimal. Many seeds are
not actually dormant, but merely quiescent. Quiescent seeds will
germinate promptly when exposed to environmental conditions optimal
for germination. Most flower, vegetable and lawn grass seeds are
quiescent rather than dormant.

Aaron posted some links about the Beal seed longevity experiment.
Fritz Went started a similar experiment in 1947 with seeds sealed in a
vacuum. He intended the experiment to last 360 years.

http://www.ou.edu/cas/botany-micro/b...tracts/1.shtml

Biology textbooks often list from four to seven characteristics of
life. They might be of use in your determination if seeds are alive.

http://128.252.223.112/posts/archive...6518.Bt.r.html
http://128.252.223.112/posts/archive...2472.Bt.r.html

Seeds are often very tough. For long term storage, seeds are routinely
kept at liquid nitrogen temperatures. NASA put thousands of tomato
seeds into orbit for over 5.5 years. The seeds germinated well when
returned to earth.

http://www.worldandi.com/specialrepo...er/Sa20717.htm

"Miss Chanandler Bong" wrote in message . com...
Are seeds alive or not? Seeds have been
found in the desert and that are 4000 years
old, but when put in moist soil, they grow.

So where does the life come from? Is it generated
when conditions are right? Or was the seed alive
but dormant? Do the conditions make life? Can't
find answers - I don't think anyone knows.

A seed that germinates after 1,000 years would have been alive for
those 1,000 years but in a type of suspended animation. It may or may
not have been dormant. A dormant seed will not germinate even when
environmental conditions for germination are optimal. Many seeds are
not actually dormant, but merely quiescent. Quiescent seeds will
germinate promptly when exposed to environmental conditions optimal
for germination. Most flower, vegetable and lawn grass seeds are
quiescent rather than dormant.

Aaron posted some links about the Beal seed longevity experiment.
Fritz Went started a similar experiment in 1947 with seeds sealed in a
vacuum. He intended the experiment to last 360 years.

http://www.ou.edu/cas/botany-micro/b...tracts/1.shtml

Biology textbooks often list from four to seven characteristics of
life. They might be of use in your determination if seeds are alive.

http://128.252.223.112/posts/archive...6518.Bt.r.html
http://128.252.223.112/posts/archive...2472.Bt.r.html

Seeds are often very tough. For long term storage, seeds are routinely
kept at liquid nitrogen temperatures. NASA put thousands of tomato
seeds into orbit for over 5.5 years. The seeds germinated well when
returned to earth.

http://www.worldandi.com/specialrepo...er/Sa20717.htm

Miss Chanandler Bong schreef
I took the 4000 year-old example from memory
and it may have been someone's exageration or
a myth

+ + +
Widespread:
http://www.google.nl/search?q=cache:...ov.eg/online/h
tml6/o290122a.htm