Tried finding out some data on asphalt roof shingles as to whether they
are good for plants or bad. The Internet is mixed on this question. A
University says that tar is toxic to plants. But that does not make
sense relative to the known fact that each year now I receive baby trees
grown in tar-paper pots.

What brings me to this issue is the fact that I have about 50 bundles of
unused asphalt shingles. I have several options-- 1) sell them cheap to
get rid of 2) haul them to the dump 3) use them as a mulch or ground
cover in the tree windbreak and perhaps elsewhere in the gardens.

So, what is the straight truth about asphalt shingles relative to
plants? Are they toxic. Or do they help plants in providing acidity and
micronutrients to the soil as well as acting as a mulch.

If I recall, raspberries seemed to love the soil where trash and tires
and shingles were dumped.

So who is correct, the college professor who says tar and asphalt is
toxic to plants or the commonsense inference that since tar-paper pots
are normally used with plants says it is beneficial to plants.

I suspect the tar in asphalt shingles provides much needed sulfur to the
soil and makes a base-pH more acid pH.

The science literature on tar in soil is contradictory.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.archimedesplutonium.com
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Fri, 27 Aug 2004 02:26:03 -0500 Archimedes Plutonium wrote:
(most snipped)

Tried finding out some data on asphalt roof shingles as to whether they
are good for plants or bad. The Internet is mixed on this question. A
University says that tar is toxic to plants. But that does not make
sense relative to the known fact that each year now I receive baby trees
grown in tar-paper pots.

Another indice of evidence in support of the beneficence of asphalt roof
shingles on plants is the fact that moss loves to live on asphalt roof
shingles especially in the Northwest. Mosses as plants are rather picky and
fussy about where they live and if they love asphalt roof shingles suggests
that the professor who says tar is toxic to plants is very much misleading.



Archimedes Plutonium
www.archimedesplutonium.com
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Instead of speculating, if you really own any trees, why don't you try it on a
couple & see what happens?
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message
...
Tried finding out some data on asphalt roof shingles as to whether they
are good for plants or bad. The Internet is mixed on this question. A
University says that tar is toxic to plants. But that does not make
sense relative to the known fact that each year now I receive baby trees
grown in tar-paper pots.

What brings me to this issue is the fact that I have about 50 bundles of
unused asphalt shingles. I have several options-- 1) sell them cheap to
get rid of 2) haul them to the dump 3) use them as a mulch or ground
cover in the tree windbreak and perhaps elsewhere in the gardens.

So, what is the straight truth about asphalt shingles relative to
plants? Are they toxic. Or do they help plants in providing acidity and
micronutrients to the soil as well as acting as a mulch.

If I recall, raspberries seemed to love the soil where trash and tires
and shingles were dumped.

So who is correct, the college professor who says tar and asphalt is
toxic to plants or the commonsense inference that since tar-paper pots
are normally used with plants says it is beneficial to plants.

I suspect the tar in asphalt shingles provides much needed sulfur to the
soil and makes a base-pH more acid pH.

The science literature on tar in soil is contradictory.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.archimedesplutonium.com
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies


I have plenty of grass growing thru cracks in the asphalt road and path
outside my place, and many weeds besides. Also there is lichen growning on
my slate roof.

We used power kerosine (a high-aromatic solvent) to kill weeds in the old
days, but asphalt has lost all its aromatic solvents due to evaporation.

Don't forget that asphalt and tar are two different things, the former from
pertoleum and thelatter from coal.

Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:08:33 +1000 Peter Jason wrote:



I have plenty of grass growing thru cracks in the asphalt road and path
outside my place, and many weeds besides. Also there is lichen growning on
my slate roof.

We used power kerosine (a high-aromatic solvent) to kill weeds in the old
days, but asphalt has lost all its aromatic solvents due to evaporation.

Don't forget that asphalt and tar are two different things, the former from
pertoleum and thelatter from coal.

What exactly is the chemical difference between asphalt and tar?

Apparently there is alot of common language confusion between tar and asphalt.
Most everyone who sees a black sticky substance calls it tar and thinks that
tar is what makes up asphalt.

There is even tar in cigarrettes but there is no coal in cigarettes.

So, should the tar paper pots that my trees come in be more accurately called
asphalt pots?

Posted to sci.chem and sci.materials for someone who can clear up these
definitions.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.archimedesplutonium.com
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Archimedes Plutonium wrote in message ...
Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:08:33 +1000 Peter Jason wrote:



I have plenty of grass growing thru cracks in the asphalt road and path
outside my place, and many weeds besides. Also there is lichen growning on
my slate roof.

We used power kerosine (a high-aromatic solvent) to kill weeds in the old
days, but asphalt has lost all its aromatic solvents due to evaporation.

Don't forget that asphalt and tar are two different things, the former from
pertoleum and thelatter from coal.

What exactly is the chemical difference between asphalt and tar?

Apparently there is alot of common language confusion between tar and asphalt.
Most everyone who sees a black sticky substance calls it tar and thinks that
tar is what makes up asphalt.

There is even tar in cigarrettes but there is no coal in cigarettes.

So, should the tar paper pots that my trees come in be more accurately called
asphalt pots?

Posted to sci.chem and sci.materials for someone who can clear up these
definitions.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.archimedesplutonium.com
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

You are correct. "Tar" is a pretty loosely used word here.
Basically it means 'sticky gunk in the condenser`.
Asphalt, coal tar, vegetable distillates, (eg. 'Pine Tar` or the 'tar`
in cigarettes, your fireplace flue, or your plant pots), are different
substances with different components and therefore, different toxic
properties.
Your shingles, if they have lost their odor, are probably relatively
benign, but I doubt they'll do your garden any good. Here in the
northeast we get far more sulfur than we need from acid rain.
Best of luck,

Pragmatist
"Just about the time I mastered getting the toothpaste back into
the tube, they came up with this STRIPED stuff!"

someone wrote:


Your shingles, if they have lost their odor, are probably relatively
benign, but I doubt they'll do your garden any good. Here in the
northeast we get far more sulfur than we need from acid rain.
Best of luck,


I guess the best test is not asking but experimenting. Already I see the weeds and grass growing
the best near the shingles laying on the ground. What I am going to do is place a few around
some plants to see if they do better than those without.

I suspect the sulfur content is beneficial because our soil is alkaline.

Yeah sure, Archie.

Like your sniffing glue must be good because it helps hold your brain cells
together.

Using tar shingles as mulch is a bad idea for the same reasons mulch from
ground up tires is bad. Just have your trash hauled away and get it over
with.

Do your own Google search research, you blithering idiot.


"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message
...
someone wrote:


Your shingles, if they have lost their odor, are probably relatively
benign, but I doubt they'll do your garden any good. Here in the
northeast we get far more sulfur than we need from acid rain.
Best of luck,


I guess the best test is not asking but experimenting. Already I see the
weeds and grass growing
the best near the shingles laying on the ground. What I am going to do is
place a few around
some plants to see if they do better than those without.

I suspect the sulfur content is beneficial because our soil is alkaline.

Archimedes Plutonium wrote in message ...
[snip ...]
So, what is the straight truth about asphalt shingles relative to
plants?

Asphalt shingles are highly toxic. Dust from
ground shingles was used during WWII, spread by
planes flying in "crop-duster" mode over German-
held Frence territory. There was a huge outcry
from the international community -- violation of
the Geneva Convention with regards to war. Those
found guilty of authorizing the use of shingle-
dust were nutted and sent home to be further
punished by their wives.

OTOH, ground asphalt shingles aid in soil drainage
and being relatively inert will not harm the
garden environment. Mix the material thoroughly
into the ground. If you die from eating the
bounty from your garden, please contact the ....


Mark (And she asked: Will ya (.)(.) kill for me, sucker?)

(Mark Tarka) wrote in
om:

Archimedes Plutonium wrote in message
... [snip ...]
So, what is the straight truth about asphalt shingles relative to
plants?

Asphalt shingles are highly toxic. Dust from
ground shingles was used during WWII, spread by
planes flying in "crop-duster" mode over German-
held Frence territory. There was a huge outcry
from the international community -- violation of
the Geneva Convention with regards to war. Those
found guilty of authorizing the use of shingle-
dust were nutted and sent home to be further
punished by their wives.

OTOH, ground asphalt shingles aid in soil drainage
and being relatively inert will not harm the
garden environment. Mix the material thoroughly
into the ground. If you die from eating the
bounty from your garden, please contact the ....


Mark (And she asked: Will ya (.)(.) kill for me, sucker?)

Asphalt highly toxic? I wouldn't say so, there are lots of plants
that grow right next to asphalt roads. The only possible issues with
asphalt shingles might be some of the ones that were made with
asbestos. Still, there are lots of better materials to use for
mulching, so I would avoid them.

Sean