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Old 22-11-2004, 07:18 PM
mel turner
 
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"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message
...
mel turner schreef


As so it will probably stay [being traditionally a member of Acacia
subgenus Acacia, it's thus part of a group that will remain "true
Acacias" by definition, i.e., the group containing the type species of
the genus]. If anything is to stay a member of the genus Acacia, it
will be they.


***
No
* * *


"No"?

Care to elaborate and clarify?
No, _Acacia farnesiana_ wasn't classified as a member of _Acacia_
subgenus _Acacia_, or no, the group containing the type species of
_Acacia_ won't be the group that must be considered _Acacia, s.s._
in any revised classifications?

With regard to your earlier suggestion that the bipinnate New Mexico
species may belong to the genus Acaciella, well, yes and no.

Maslin, et al. [2003] indicate that the genus_Acaciella_ is based on
_Acacia_ subg. _Aculeiferum_ sect. _Filicinae_. This is reportedly a
largely Mexican group, but other Acacia s.l. groups do occur in the
New World, including the SW USA:

TITLE: Geographical patterns in neotropical Acacia (Leguminosae:
Mimosoideae).
AUTHOR, EDITOR, INVENTOR: Rico-Arce,-Lourdes [Author,-Reprint-Author]
SOURCE: Australian-Systematic-Botany. 2003; 16(1): 41-48
ABSTRACT: Native neotropical species of Acacia, totalling 230 species,
are represented by two subgenera, Acacia and Aculeiferum. The number
of taxa per country and their distribution are presented. For subgenus
Aculeiferum, the species of section Filicinae are the richest in
Mexico, while species of section Monacanthea are the most diverse in
Brazil, Bolivia and Mexico. The species of subgenus Acacia have three
main areas of diversity, with Mesoamerica being the most important
region for the myrmecophyllous species and Mexico, the United States
and Cuba for the non-myrmecophyllous species.

So, the famous tropical American "ant-acacias" are in _Acacia_
subg. _Acacia_.

Other papers [cited in an earlier post] indicated that _A. farnesiana_
was in subgenus _Acacia_, and not in subg. _Aculeiferum_ sect.
_Filicinae_ [= Acaciella]. In fact, Bukhari, et al. [1999] said that
their DNA study showed that _A. farnesiana_ is the sister species to
_Acacia nilotica_ [the type species of the genus _Acacia_].

[snip]
cheers


  #32   Report Post  
Old 22-11-2004, 08:43 PM
P van Rijckevorsel
 
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mel turner schreef
"No"?


Care to elaborate and clarify?


***
Well, I can try.
* * *

No, _Acacia farnesiana_ wasn't classified as a member of _Acacia_
subgenus _Acacia_,


***
No, that is not it. That is correct, as far as it goes.
* * *

or no, the group containing the type species of
_Acacia_ won't be the group that must be considered _Acacia, s.s._
in any revised classifications?


***
This too is eminently correct, but you are missing something
* * *

With regard to your earlier suggestion that the bipinnate New Mexico
species may belong to the genus Acaciella, well, yes and no.


***
I checked, and indeed Acacia farnesiana is quite unlikely to end up in
Acaciella, although other American species will.

Sorry to be so mysterious. I am just curious to see how fast the word
spreads
PvR










  #33   Report Post  
Old 23-11-2004, 01:52 AM
mel turner
 
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"P van Rijckevorsel"
wrote in message ...
mel turner schreef
"No"?


Care to elaborate and clarify?


***
Well, I can try.
* * *


Thanks.

No, _Acacia farnesiana_ wasn't classified as a member of _Acacia_
subgenus _Acacia_,


***
No, that is not it. That is correct, as far as it goes.
* * *

or no, the group containing the type species of
_Acacia_ won't be the group that must be considered _Acacia, s.s._
in any revised classifications?


***
This too is eminently correct, but you are missing something
* * *


Okay, now I get it [way to be coy!], having looked further, e.g.:

http://treesociety.mweb.co.zw/news.htm
and
http://farrer.riv.csu.edu.au/ASGAP/APOL35/sep04-7.html & esp.
http://www.worldwidewattle.com/infogallery/taxonomy/

So,
Orchard and Maslin [2003] have proposed conserving the generic name
_Acacia_ with a new type species [A. penninervis], one of the
phyllode-bearing species, in place of the earlier-accepted
type species A. nilotica. [This asking for an special exemption from
the usual rules of nomenclatural may rankle a bit, I suppose, but their
proposal has the advantage of requiring many fewer name changes.
There are far fewer species in Acacia subgenus Acacia than there are
in the phyllode-bearing group].

If their proposal is ratified and adopted [which seems likely, although
there are a few steps remaining] then apparently the genus name
_Vachellia_ will be used for the former "Acacia subgenus Acacia", and
the name _Acacia_ will become restricted to the phyllode-bearing clade
[again, which includes some species without phyllodes].

With regard to your earlier suggestion that the bipinnate New Mexico
species may belong to the genus Acaciella, well, yes and no.


***
I checked, and indeed Acacia farnesiana is quite unlikely to end up in
Acaciella, although other American species will.

Sorry to be so mysterious. I am just curious to see how fast the word
spreads


Word of Orchard & Maslin's proposal, and its progress through
the botanical legal system?

Orchard, A.E. and Maslin, B.R. (2003). Proposal to conserve the
name Acacia Mill. (Leguminosae: Mimosoideae) with a new type.
Taxon 52: 362 - 363.

http://taddeo.ingentaselect.com/vl=2...v52n2/s31/p362
http://www.worldwidewattle.com/infogallery/taxonomy/
http://www.worldwidewattle.com/infog...chronology.php

cheers


  #34   Report Post  
Old 23-11-2004, 10:17 AM
P van Rijckevorsel
 
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If their proposal is ratified and adopted [which seems likely, although
there are a few steps remaining] then apparently the genus name
_Vachellia_ will be used for the former "Acacia subgenus Acacia", and
the name _Acacia_ will become restricted to the phyllode-bearing clade
[again, which includes some species without phyllodes].


Word of Orchard & Maslin's proposal, and its progress through
the botanical legal system?


***
This one is indeed pretty comprehensive
http://farrer.riv.csu.edu.au/ASGAP/APOL35/sep04-7.html
The report in Taxon was published about a month - six weeks back.
(Taxon 53: 826-829. 2004)

Also
http://www.anbg.gov.au/cpbr/taxonomy...rved-2004.html
pvR






  #35   Report Post  
Old 23-11-2004, 02:08 PM
Iris Cohen
 
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Acacia farnesiana is quite unlikely to end up in
Acaciella, although other American species will.

That's good. Mine are beginning to take on the classic Old World Acacia style,
and I wouldn't want to upset them. Thank goodness they don't attract ants. ;-)
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra


  #36   Report Post  
Old 23-11-2004, 02:19 PM
P van Rijckevorsel
 
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Acacia farnesiana is quite unlikely to end up in
Acaciella, although other American species will.


Iris Cohen schreef in
That's good. Mine are beginning to take on the classic Old World Acacia

style, and I wouldn't want to upset them. Thank goodness they don't attract
ants.
;-)

***
As pointed out A. farnesiana may end up in Vachellia, like some of its Old
World relatives
PvR






  #37   Report Post  
Old 23-11-2004, 07:16 PM
Iris Cohen
 
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A. farnesiana may end up in Vachellia, like some of its Old World relatives


Oy Va............
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra
  #38   Report Post  
Old 23-11-2004, 08:25 PM
P van Rijckevorsel
 
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A. farnesiana may end up in Vachellia, like some of its Old World
relatives

Iris Cohen schreef
Oy Va............


***
Likely it will be years before you have to deal with it.
Don't panic.
PvR


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