where should I start, after "MiniFAQ # 048" ??? ...
 

.... I've visited most of the resources mentioned in "MiniFAQ # 048" and
still don't know where to start to try and identify a plant I've never seen
before, neither in the field nor in books or sites I've consulted.

Is there a kind of "Finder" somewhere, where I could enter characteristics
in an orderly way ? like orderly choices between 2 or 3 possibilities, so as
to narrow the list at every step.

When you're not a botanist, it's not easy, because every site I visited
starts with names...

I have here in the back lane an :

1.- herbaceous plant, that grows around a "branching" stem, not an unique
stem with branches all starting on the same stem. The plant seems pretty
"tender", not at all "woody"

2.- the taller individuals are about 2 foot high right now. (I live in
Montreal Canada, and right now, dandelions have been in bloom for about 2
weeks, if you want to have an idea of the climate here)

3.- it bears yellow flowers arranged in rosettes (almost circles) at the
very end of a particular "stem". They look a bit like those of "hypericum",
with flowers that look like those of "buttercups"' but not shiny. Some of
the flowers have already given way to little ~ ½ inch long "beans", one per
flower. The beans stay upright. Not sure if there is or not one central
"floweret" in the Rosette, or only an outside circle of "flowerets".

4.- the base of the leaves don't have their own "stem" (petiole in French")

5.- new/branching stems originate at the base of the leaves, between the
leave and the mother stem

6.- the stems are round and bear hairs (~ ¼ inch)that don't prick or
irritate

7.- the "veins" under the leaves also bear the same kind of hair

8.- the leaves themselves don't bear hair, either on top or underneath, but
are not shiny

9.- the leaves are simple, but very "dented" even if all the "dents" are
curvy. In some parts of the leaves, there is very little "leaf material"
left along a main vein, until it spreads again along the vein branching.

10.- the contours of a leaf are "scalloppy" (~ ½ inch scallops), but on a
plane, not in 2 dimensions

11.- the leaves don't show any little breathing "holes" underneath

hope someone can help, and thanks for every tip.

If it happens to be an invading species, say so, I'll try to destroy them
before it's too late.


Lise
one who doesn't like not being able to put a name on things ;)

==========================

Well, identifying a plant often depends on where you are.
A key to all 250 000 - 400 000 species that exist worldwide would be
hopelessly cumbersome, so any inhabited area has a flora (many tropical
countries excepted), dealing with the local plants. These flora's will be in
the local libraries (and bookshops). Whether these flora's are on the
internet will vary from country to country.

FWIW, it sounds like you have one of the Cruciferae (nom. alt. Brassicaceae)
PvR

"Lise" schreef
... I've visited most of the resources mentioned in "MiniFAQ # 048" and
still don't know where to start to try and identify a plant I've never
seen before, neither in the field nor in books or sites I've consulted.

It sounds like a species of Oenothera that I've also seen here in
Toronto. It may be O. biennis or O. parviflora, but these may not be
the current names.

Oenothera ("evening primroses") is a large and diverse genus of North
American plants. If yours is the same as mine, it's a biennial. It
makes a rosette of leaves the first year, and the second puts out a
tall vertical flowering stalk and some similar long horizontal ones.
The seed pods do look a little like beans. The plant dies after
flowering.

Comparing the description in my copy of Ontario Weeds, you've done a
very good job of describing this plant in less technical terms.

While some species of Oenothera have been domesticated into ornamental
plants, this one is really too weedy and sprawling for a flower bed.
It's pretty easy to control, if you don't want it, since the seeds
generally fall close to the parent plant, so you can enjoy it in the
back lane without worrying that it's going to take over your garden!
The first year plants are easily killed with a hoe.

Please let us know what you find out, now that you've got a better
starting point. I find Ontario Weeds, a rather old publication of the
Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, very useful in identifying plants in
bits of wasteland in settled areas. You may be able to find something
similar for agricultural areas of Quebec, although most of the plants
are probably the same.

Incidentally, I first saw this plant after we tore down our old garage
and broke up and removed the concrete under it. The building was at
least 50 and probably more like 75 years old. It was interesting to
see what volunteered in that long buried gluey silt after it was
exposed to light and air. Since I hadn't seen this plant anywhere near
here before, it's conceivable that it came from seeds that had been
buried for many decades. Many weedy plants have seeds with really
surprising longevity, but I can't prove that this is an example of it.


In article ,
Lise wrote:
... I've visited most of the resources mentioned in "MiniFAQ # 048" and
still don't know where to start to try and identify a plant I've never seen
before, neither in the field nor in books or sites I've consulted.

Is there a kind of "Finder" somewhere, where I could enter characteristics
in an orderly way ? like orderly choices between 2 or 3 possibilities, so as
to narrow the list at every step.

When you're not a botanist, it's not easy, because every site I visited
starts with names...

I have here in the back lane an :

1.- herbaceous plant, that grows around a "branching" stem, not an unique
stem with branches all starting on the same stem. The plant seems pretty
"tender", not at all "woody"

2.- the taller individuals are about 2 foot high right now. (I live in
Montreal Canada, and right now, dandelions have been in bloom for about 2
weeks, if you want to have an idea of the climate here)

3.- it bears yellow flowers arranged in rosettes (almost circles) at the
very end of a particular "stem". They look a bit like those of "hypericum",
with flowers that look like those of "buttercups"' but not shiny. Some of
the flowers have already given way to little ~ ½ inch long "beans", one per
flower. The beans stay upright. Not sure if there is or not one central
"floweret" in the Rosette, or only an outside circle of "flowerets".

4.- the base of the leaves don't have their own "stem" (petiole in French")

5.- new/branching stems originate at the base of the leaves, between the
leave and the mother stem

6.- the stems are round and bear hairs (~ ¼ inch)that don't prick or
irritate

7.- the "veins" under the leaves also bear the same kind of hair

8.- the leaves themselves don't bear hair, either on top or underneath, but
are not shiny

9.- the leaves are simple, but very "dented" even if all the "dents" are
curvy. In some parts of the leaves, there is very little "leaf material"
left along a main vein, until it spreads again along the vein branching.

10.- the contours of a leaf are "scalloppy" (~ ½ inch scallops), but on a
plane, not in 2 dimensions

11.- the leaves don't show any little breathing "holes" underneath

hope someone can help, and thanks for every tip.

If it happens to be an invading species, say so, I'll try to destroy them
before it's too late.


Lise
one who doesn't like not being able to put a name on things ;)

==========================

In message , Lise
writes
... I've visited most of the resources mentioned in "MiniFAQ # 048" and
still don't know where to start to try and identify a plant I've never seen
before, neither in the field nor in books or sites I've consulted.

Is there a kind of "Finder" somewhere, where I could enter characteristics
in an orderly way ? like orderly choices between 2 or 3 possibilities, so as
to narrow the list at every step.

When you're not a botanist, it's not easy, because every site I visited
starts with names...

I have here in the back lane an :

1.- herbaceous plant, that grows around a "branching" stem, not an unique
stem with branches all starting on the same stem. The plant seems pretty
"tender", not at all "woody"

2.- the taller individuals are about 2 foot high right now. (I live in
Montreal Canada, and right now, dandelions have been in bloom for about 2
weeks, if you want to have an idea of the climate here)

3.- it bears yellow flowers arranged in rosettes (almost circles) at the
very end of a particular "stem". They look a bit like those of "hypericum",
with flowers that look like those of "buttercups"' but not shiny. Some of
the flowers have already given way to little ~ ½ inch long "beans", one per
flower. The beans stay upright. Not sure if there is or not one central
"floweret" in the Rosette, or only an outside circle of "flowerets".

4.- the base of the leaves don't have their own "stem" (petiole in French")

5.- new/branching stems originate at the base of the leaves, between the
leave and the mother stem

6.- the stems are round and bear hairs (~ ¼ inch)that don't prick or
irritate

7.- the "veins" under the leaves also bear the same kind of hair

8.- the leaves themselves don't bear hair, either on top or underneath, but
are not shiny

9.- the leaves are simple, but very "dented" even if all the "dents" are
curvy. In some parts of the leaves, there is very little "leaf material"
left along a main vein, until it spreads again along the vein branching.

10.- the contours of a leaf are "scalloppy" (~ ½ inch scallops), but on a
plane, not in 2 dimensions

11.- the leaves don't show any little breathing "holes" underneath

hope someone can help, and thanks for every tip.

If it happens to be an invading species, say so, I'll try to destroy them
before it's too late.


PvR's suggestion of a crucifer is plausible. Crucifer flowers have 4
petals, which seeing that 5 petals is commoner among eudicots, is a
useful confirming trait. (There are other yellow 4-petalled flowers,
e.g. Greater Celandine, Crosswort, Welsh Poppy, Evening Primrose, but
none with flowers in flattened clusters at the ends of stems come to
mind.) The leaf shape suggests Barbarea or Brassica (or something not
found in the UK) to me.

There's a key to plant families online, which might help. See

http://home.iae.nl/users/linea/start.html

(Perhaps this can go in MiniFAQ # 049, assuming I wasn't mistaken in not
seeing it in # 048.)

Counting bracteoles (if any), sepals, petals, stamens and styles can
help in identifying plants.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Stewart Robert Hinsley schreef
There's a key to plant families online, which might help. See

http://home.iae.nl/users/linea/start.html

(Perhaps this can go in MiniFAQ # 049, assuming I wasn't mistaken in not
seeing it in # 048.)

***
Thanks for the support.

As to this key, that is based on Thonner's key. The German original should
be around here somewhere, but I failed to buy the English translation. I am
not closely familiar with it as I found it to be quite intimidating, a
feeling shared by everybody who I asked about it. I would not be inclined to
advise its use to the layman.

Something similar, but better supported, is part of the Delta package:
http://delta-intkey.com/angio/www/ident.htm
which is in the FAQ (although at the old address. I see they they have
moved). However, even this is likely to be hard going for a casual user, who
just wants to flip through a few pages of pictures to find a match. Usually
the plant in question will be fairly common and easily found, provided that
there is an internet source for that particular locality. That is usually
not the case. A flora in bookform is much more likely to exist, even though
the quality of the pictures will vary from place to place.
PvR