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Old 19-03-2007, 11:19 PM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default KOI $$$

~Roy~ wrote:


This is true, however the items you listed (appearing healthy, color,
and environment) are not factors that determine the "quality" of a
fish by any means. Its more of a factor to pay a bit extra for in
terms of a mom and pop lfs vrs a fish kept in poor condiitons ala
chain store shops, and uneducated associates......but its stil not an
indication of quality in a fish....After all who would even consider
keeping a big bucks koi in poor water........yet its commonly done, so
yes, you can have top qualaity show quality koi kept in poor water and
if yu know what your looking at and can spot and tell a quality koi
and its in nasty water its still a quality koi.....


Aahh...but now you are talking the difference between say a quality bred
pedigree dog and a mongrel...or indeed a pedigree dog that does not have
the classic features to win something like Crufts.....I once had a
non-registered Irish Setter - the woman next door to my Mum's used to
breed Cruft Champions (Irish Setters) - she took one look at the pup and
told me exactly what line it had been bred from and that it was a
quality dog and such a crime that I could not register her and breed
from her....to me, she was a pet and I didn't have the faintest clue as
a layman exactly the quality of dog I had - nor, obviously did the
original breeder or that darn dog would have cost me an arm and a leg to
buy and certainly would have been Kennel Club registered....most people
don't keep or want to keep and breed the more expensive pedigree
champion dogs or indeed fish.....so our judgement of quality is somewhat
different.....

Yes, if I was going to get into fish breeding seriously I would be more
careful about the quality of the breeding pair.....in an environment
where potentially more than one fish could father the offspring then you
would make darned sure that all of your males were quality fish...but
you wouldn't be hiking these fish down to your local store to sell the
off-spring - you would be right there with the Champion Pedigree Dog
breeders getting the best money that you could.....



I dunno Gill, there was a big following and use of the rec.ponds group
years back by foks that are big names in the koi world. I would not
consider this mainly a hobbyist board......the reason most moved on is
not due to trolls etc its due to exposure, and the abaility to make
life easier to post and show pics all on the same board...With
exposure probably being the largest factor that took them away....


Well, right now this is a group that we need to rebuild and lets all
aspire to getting the quality of posts and harmony amongst one another
here that will make this an attractive group for people such as you are
describing to want to come and post - I very much doubt that you would
disagree with me here.....BTW I do agree on the benefits of being able
to post pics but it is a sad reality that most NSPs do not carry binary
groups because of the demands on resources....


Most all true koi enthusiasts could care less about lilys or cat tails
;-)...and their ponds do not contain them. its all about
fish.......


You have reminded me of a "Mum" I met many years ago in a Mother and
Toddler group when my oldest was of that age group (around 12 years ago)
- I do sometimes still see her at school parent evenings.....Now, they
were true fanatics...the entire garden was given up to what I can only
describe as great Koi vats.....hardly a hint of green anywhere - even
terrestrial plants - now these people were very serious about their
hobby and their fish.....maybe, when I'm ready to move onto Koi I should
make contact with them.....


Lots of water gardeners could care less about fish, its all
about plants, but rpm covers both and does it well....


It is to be hoped that rpm will fulfill everyone's expectations.....I am
more of a gardener who also happens to love fish when it comes to the
outdoor aspect of the hobby - the interior of my house is full to the
brim with tanks.....a good group is one that can accomodate all without
conflict....

..but then
again isn;t even those die hard koi keepers just pursuing a hobby
anyhow, only at bigger $$$$ than most are willing to pay.........I had
a list of folks that are big in the world of Koi that started off in
these groups.......guess I need to see if I can find it...One fella
"Blammo" is amaong the worlds leading usa based koi dealers and
breeders.......another Gene is right up there as well.......and there
is quite a few judges that started off right here as well......Guess
the age of USENET and it being among the first to actually provide a
viable means of communicating was a natural until graphics and webp
pages became more common place and then the advent of web based
forums...


Maybe you could influence such experts to occassionally post here....now
that would really be a great feather in our caps.....and to the benefit
of all.....

Exactly thats why I buy whatever I can from the local LFS here and
leave the chain store places until last resort if possible. I tend to
view Petco as "Deathco" and petsmart as a petslaugherhouse.......I
have very little use for them espeically if it comes to buying
livestock........


Well....maybe both you and I (and some others) are lucky enough to have
that choice and be able to indulge our "best practice discrimination" in
terms of retailers....others might not have quite as much cash (not that
I do and I can't make any assumptions about your disposable
income)......in reality I see buying cheap fish with inherent risks as a
bit of a false economy and I'm not saying that going to more specialised
places means that you won't fall foul of sick fish or have one die on
you as it hits the water but it is a slight insurance policy and a good
LFS will always make amends when the customer is not to blame - and
sometimes will do so nonetheless to preserve the custom - although
hopefully a responsible one will take the approach that mine does and
refuse to give them anymore fish until they sort out their water quality
issues - as I said - you pay a bit extra for good customer service but
IMO it is worth every penny....



Gill







-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!



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