Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Soft water and calcium
Altum, I hope you don't mind that I cut a paragraph from your post in
another thread to start this one. I'm sorry if this is bad manners, but the thread had already wandered and I didn't want to stray more. BTW, people in sof****er areas also add calcium and magnesium to the fertilizer. My water is hard so I don't worry about it. I doubt it's too much of a problem in most ponds since everyone tends to add coral and/or oyster shells to harden the water a little for koi and goldies anyway. Well, I have a soft water problem and use ground limestone to replenish the calcium carbonate in the water to keep the KH up high enough to keep the pH from crashing. Problem is the calcium won't dissolve to raise the KH when the pH is higher than 7.8 and mine stays about 7.8 or up to 8.2 most of the time. The same with shells, coral and most other forms of calcium carbonate. Consequently I have a KH of 1 degree, (Converts to 17.8 ppm.) a good bit of the time after a rain. Most of the calcium that I have tried seems to raise the GH and the KH remains low, seldom going over 2 or maybe 3 degrees. I have reached 50 ppm, but seldom see 100 ppm in my pond. Years ago I read about a pH pill made from plaster of paris on Doc Johnson's site and I had some success with plaster of paris containing calcium sulfate, but now most brands of plaster contain silica and I know nothing about that, but fear it would be harmful since breathing silica isn't good for people. I found one brand of plaster for hobbyist that states it is non toxic on the label and I assume if it contained silica would be required to carry the breathing warning. I've mixed a few cupcake sized pills, but haven't used them yet. What form of calcium would you recommend, and where can I get it? My GH usually reads acceptable, so I am not as concerned about magnesium, although I don't know how much is in the water or what gives me the GH, but I have some Epsom Salts and I suppose that will suffice if I need to add it. Regards, Hal |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Soft water and calcium
with limestone there is no need to add much of anything else. your water is
hard enough altho never use copper in there. those pH pills can kill the fish when dropped into very soft, very acidic water. for some reason the pH swings up and down and doest stabilize. stability is what you are after. Jo Ann has big honker koi in acidic water treated only with organic dolomitic limestone. Ingrid I have reached 50 ppm, but seldom see 100 ppm in my pond |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Soft water and calcium
Hal wrote:
Altum, I hope you don't mind that I cut a paragraph from your post in another thread to start this one. I'm sorry if this is bad manners, but the thread had already wandered and I didn't want to stray more. BTW, people in sof****er areas also add calcium and magnesium to the fertilizer. My water is hard so I don't worry about it. I doubt it's too much of a problem in most ponds since everyone tends to add coral and/or oyster shells to harden the water a little for koi and goldies anyway. Well, I have a soft water problem and use ground limestone to replenish the calcium carbonate in the water to keep the KH up high enough to keep the pH from crashing. Problem is the calcium won't dissolve to raise the KH when the pH is higher than 7.8 and mine stays about 7.8 or up to 8.2 most of the time. The same with shells, coral and most other forms of calcium carbonate. Consequently I have a KH of 1 degree, (Converts to 17.8 ppm.) a good bit of the time after a rain. Most of the calcium that I have tried seems to raise the GH and the KH remains low, seldom going over 2 or maybe 3 degrees. I have reached 50 ppm, but seldom see 100 ppm in my pond. Years ago I read about a pH pill made from plaster of paris on Doc Johnson's site and I had some success with plaster of paris containing calcium sulfate, but now most brands of plaster contain silica and I know nothing about that, but fear it would be harmful since breathing silica isn't good for people. I found one brand of plaster for hobbyist that states it is non toxic on the label and I assume if it contained silica would be required to carry the breathing warning. I've mixed a few cupcake sized pills, but haven't used them yet. What form of calcium would you recommend, and where can I get it? My GH usually reads acceptable, so I am not as concerned about magnesium, although I don't know how much is in the water or what gives me the GH, but I have some Epsom Salts and I suppose that will suffice if I need to add it. GH = the total amount of both calcium and magnesium, so if your GH is acceptable and you're using natural limestone or oyster shells you have enough of both. You can increase only the KH very easily by adding some baking soda. Use 1 tbsp per 100 gallons to raise KH by about 2 degrees. Your low KH reading is a little unusual. If you raise the pH of typical tap water to 7.8-8.2 with calcium carbonate, it goes well above KH 2-3. Do you have cement, cement blocks or any form of lime in the pond that's pulling the pH up? -- My other fish and pond forum is: http://groups.google.com/group/The-Freshwater-Aquarium Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Soft water and calcium
On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:53:55 CST, Altum
wrote: GH = the total amount of both calcium and magnesium, so if your GH is acceptable and you're using natural limestone or oyster shells you have enough of both. You can increase only the KH very easily by adding some baking soda. Use 1 tbsp per 100 gallons to raise KH by about 2 degrees. I seem to recall reading that calcium in the water was measured as GH and the calcium carbonate was what raised the KH. Led me to believe the calcium carbonate and bicarbonate worked, but calcium was different for some reason??? I've used baking soda, but it is so temporary and that is risky for me. It interferes with the dissolving of the calcium carbonate by raising the pH with bicarbonates and becomes an endless cycle of adding baking soda weekly. Your low KH reading is a little unusual. If you raise the pH of typical tap water to 7.8-8.2 with calcium carbonate, it goes well above KH 2-3. Do you have cement, cement blocks or any form of lime in the pond that's pulling the pH up? No cement, or anything with lime, except a sock of ground limestone in the water flow. I use garden soil for lilies and plastic pots, with plastic half barrels for the fish to hide under and filter materials (mostly plastic, some wood frames) and a pump. Three different liner types, molded plastic, rubber and Permalon. PVC pipes and one acrylic tube that runs above the waterline from the molded pond to the Permalon lined pond. I've read fish farmers (Catfish, bass and bream) in this area are advised to lime the bottom of ponds if their KH is not up to 20 ppm, but for koi, the AKCA, article by Norm Meck, recommends a minimum of 50 ppm on KH. I don't usually meet that recommendation, but would like to. Cut follows: In an established pond, the ideal Alkalinity measurement should be around 100 ppm. Readings from 50 to 200 are acceptable. Cut from: http://www.akca.org/kht/H2oQual.pdf Someone at a Koi Society meeting advised adding the calcium used in swimming pools, but I couldn't find out which lime they were using in the calcium preparations for pool maintenance, so I haven't tried that. Soda ash was used to bring up the pH in pools where I worked some years ago, but I seem to recall there was a reason not to use that in koi ponds. Regards, Hal |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Soft water and calcium
A fish farmer in Ft Valley (Within a 20mi radius) raises his fish in
clay ponds with a pH of 6, now that is acid. I tried to explain that my pH is always at 7.8 or slightly higher with a KH of one degree or close to 20 ppm. The pH being higher than neutral and the KH being so close to 0 where a pH crash is most probable, is the reason I use the pill. It seems a reasonable risk. What I would like is to raise the KH a bit so I don't have to sweat a heavy rainstorm that might deplete the small amount of carbonates that keeps the pH stable. We have heavy rainstorms almost every time Florida, and many times the gulf has a hurricane. (Location: Middle Georgia.) I tried baking soda and it is so temporary that it is a real pain to keep it up. There is also the probability that I will get distracted and miss a week. Regards, Hal On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:15:31 CST, "drsolo" wrote: with limestone there is no need to add much of anything else. your water is hard enough altho never use copper in there. those pH pills can kill the fish when dropped into very soft, very acidic water. for some reason the pH swings up and down and doest stabilize. stability is what you are after. Jo Ann has big honker koi in acidic water treated only with organic dolomitic limestone. Ingrid I have reached 50 ppm, but seldom see 100 ppm in my pond |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Soft water and calcium
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:00:56 CST, Hal wrote:
A fish farmer in Ft Valley (Within a 20mi radius) raises his fish in clay ponds with a pH of 6, now that is acid. I tried to explain that my pH is always at 7.8 or slightly higher with a KH of one degree or close to 20 ppm. The pH being higher than neutral and the KH being so close to 0 where a pH crash is most probable, is the reason I use the pill. It seems a reasonable risk. What I would like is to raise the KH a bit so I don't have to sweat a heavy rainstorm that might deplete the small amount of carbonates that keeps the pH stable. We have heavy rainstorms almost every time Florida, and many times the gulf has a hurricane. (Location: Middle Georgia.) I tried baking soda and it is so temporary that it is a real pain to keep it up. There is also the probability that I will get distracted and miss a week. Hal Hal, what is your pH, KH out of the tap? ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Soft water and calcium
get some limestone pavers and put them in your pond. they will dissolve
slowly and add calcium to the pond. Ingrid |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Soft water and calcium
"drsolo" wrote:
get some limestone pavers and put them in your pond. they will dissolve slowly and add calcium to the pond. Ingrid If you have a liner, you need to be careful with the pavers since they are heavy and have sharp edges. The most gentler way is with limestone river rock. They are rounded but more difficult to clean around. -- Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to 18,000 gallon (17'x 47'x 2-4') lily pond garden in Zone 6 Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Soft water and calcium
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 17:38:27 CST, "drsolo" wrote:
get some limestone pavers and put them in your pond. they will dissolve slowly and add calcium to the pond. Ingrid Thanks, Hal |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Soft water and calcium
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 11:45:56 CST, ~ jan wrote:
Hal, what is your pH, KH out of the tap? ~ jan This morning about 10 AM. pH 7.4, KH Pale 2 degrees, GH 4 degrees Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Test Kit The water comes out of the ground close to pure here, but lime/calcium of some sort is added to keep from eating up all the metal pipes. Regards, Hal |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Soft water and calcium - Water Changes
On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 10:42:06 CST, Hal wrote:
This morning (out of the tap) about 10 AM. pH 7.4, KH Pale 2 degrees, GH 4 degrees Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Test Kit Hal I don't know if this will work for you, or if you'd even want to do it.... The leading KHA in our club is recommending people set up a continuous drip & over flow system. He had been giving talks (and classes) on how to use a whole house carbon based dechlor. system for this. How to keep an eye on it for when the carbon is used up, etc. It is really interesting for the pond person who really likes to tinker with their pond. In his case he was always adding BS and various other stuff. Supposedly doing a flow thru system ends the need for a lot of chemical and med treatments. It definitely has helped him and has added about $15/month to his water usage. Pond size, of course is going to determine where one fall$, his is about 4,000 gallons. I'm keeping with my once/week changes, which seem to have worked for me water chemistry-wise. But if your tap water is good and the chemistry is always wonky, perhaps a flow thru would work? ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Soft water and calcium - Water Changes
On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 14:25:32 CST, ~ jan wrote:
I'm keeping with my once/week changes, which seem to have worked for me water chemistry-wise. But if your tap water is good and the chemistry is always wonky, perhaps a flow thru would work? ~ jan Thanks, I found an article on that: http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/..._term=overflow I dismissed it as too much work, but I'll take another look. Regards, Hal |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
water with soft water? | Lawns | |||
need to harden water because of snail...calcium carbonate? | Freshwater Aquaria Plants | |||
Glosso turns dark and translucent: Calcium deficient? | Freshwater Aquaria Plants | |||
Super soft water | Freshwater Aquaria Plants | |||
calcium and acidity question | Gardening |