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Old 19-05-2007, 11:59 AM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

As a new comer to ponding, a couple of weeks ago I asked on this group if I
really needed to buy oxygenating plants for my new 6m x 5m fish-less
wildlife pond. Unfortunately no one with a similar pond replied and most
responders were ambiguous on the matter. So I have decided to leave well
alone and not get the oxygenators.

The pond is very health with clear water. But after recent heavy rain the
blanket weed has increased massively. It occurred to me that maybe the real
answer to my question may have been that every pond needs something
burgeoning to absorb nutrients. That something may be vigorous
oxygenators, large numbers of marginals, algae, blanket weed, duck weed,
etc.

So although the oxygenators may not be needed to provide oxygen; they would
be beneficial in absorbing nutrients and preventing the growth of things
that are generally not appreciated.

Does this make any sense?

cheers, Davy

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Old 19-05-2007, 02:15 PM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

"Davy" wrote in message
om...
As a new comer to ponding, a couple of weeks ago I asked on this group if
I
really needed to buy oxygenating plants for my new 6m x 5m fish-less
wildlife pond. Unfortunately no one with a similar pond replied and most
responders were ambiguous on the matter. So I have decided to leave well
alone and not get the oxygenators.

The pond is very health with clear water. But after recent heavy rain the
blanket weed has increased massively. It occurred to me that maybe the
real
answer to my question may have been that every pond needs something
burgeoning to absorb nutrients. That something may be vigorous
oxygenators, large numbers of marginals, algae, blanket weed, duck weed,
etc.

So although the oxygenators may not be needed to provide oxygen; they
would
be beneficial in absorbing nutrients and preventing the growth of things
that are generally not appreciated.

Does this make any sense?

cheers, Davy


Makes sense to me.

That's planted tank thinking. Fill up the tank with "weeds" (really fast
growing stem plants like Cabomba etc) until the tank cycles, algae has been
and gone etc.
Then, put in the plants you really want to (the weeds starving the algae of
nutrients)

I can see it working with a pond the size of my two (puddles really 800L,
and 1800L), but I don't know about bigger ponds.

I'm using a disolving sachet type thing at the moment, and it seems to help
(though I have quite a few marginals), but as it was a close out line, I'll
need to go with another brand soon.

FWIW my slower lily is covered in BW and has to be cleaned weekly.

Peter

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Old 19-05-2007, 07:19 PM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

Davy,
I thought you got a lot of good answers.
Ponding is part science, part art.
You are putting perimeters on a pond that don't
work in nature so you aren't always going to get
the results you want.

Your rain shower probably allowed a lot of nutients
from your yard (dirt, fertilizer?) to run into the pond.
A pond now out of balance.
ANY kind of plant will use up excess nutrients. But
it will take time.

k :-)

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Old 19-05-2007, 07:20 PM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

On Sat, 19 May 2007 03:59:57 CST, "Davy"
wrote:

As a new comer to ponding, a couple of weeks ago I asked on this group if I
really needed to buy oxygenating plants for my new 6m x 5m fish-less
wildlife pond. Unfortunately no one with a similar pond replied and most
responders were ambiguous on the matter. So I have decided to leave well
alone and not get the oxygenators.

The pond is very health with clear water. But after recent heavy rain the
blanket weed has increased massively. It occurred to me that maybe the real
answer to my question may have been that every pond needs something
burgeoning to absorb nutrients. That something may be vigorous
oxygenators, large numbers of marginals, algae, blanket weed, duck weed,
etc.

So although the oxygenators may not be needed to provide oxygen; they would
be beneficial in absorbing nutrients and preventing the growth of things
that are generally not appreciated.

Does this make any sense?

cheers, Davy


Absolutely. I came to the conclusion that others were trying to say you
don't have to buy enough to fill the pond.... but get perhaps a quarter of
what you were thinking and they'll fill in?

We use to be able to get elodea easily here at our pet shops, I really miss
it. I can get a bit of it to winter over inside and outside, but every year
it doesn't seem to come back as strong as the last.

I currently have a 1,000 gallon (3790 liters?) fishless pond filled with
tad poles, lilies and a half dozen marginals. It is 6 years old and I see
that I'm getting SA a little less each spring. It tends to love where the
water comes in. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

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Old 19-05-2007, 07:48 PM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

We have never tried a totally fishless pond. I suspect it would have
fewer nutrients than our koi/goldie pond as it would have less
fishwaste.

You are surefly right that algae and especially blanketweed will grab
nutrients and thrive. It cannot compete with more complex plants, so
your plantings will get rid of it as they succeed. We get a good dose
of blanketweed each year, especially on the falls. Our koi view it as
a treat, so it is not in the main pond. We let it run where it does
not mess up the view. It hastens its own demise by grabbing
nutrients.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Jim



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Old 20-05-2007, 07:41 PM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

Davy wrote:

So although the oxygenators may not be needed to provide oxygen; they
would be beneficial in absorbing nutrients and preventing the growth of
things that are generally not appreciated.

Does this make any sense?


At the risk of repeating myself, yes :-)
--
derek
- Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself, not rec.ponds.moderated
moderators.

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Old 21-05-2007, 03:11 PM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

Phyllis and Jim wrote, On 19/05/2007 18:48:
We have never tried a totally fishless pond. I suspect it would have
fewer nutrients than our koi/goldie pond as it would have less
fishwaste.


The excess nutrients come from the fish food that we throw in, it is
packed full of calories that the fish turn in to urea.
Many people have low maintenance gardens ponds with a few fish that are
never fed. There is no pumped filtration or outside intervention. The
population of fish (and plants) is self regulating depending on the
available resources. Fish eat plant matter or invertebrates so if the
pond is in balance, the nutrient level will be just right. Probably wont
be a great pond though, and fish will die if the system is unbalanced.

--
DavidM
www.djmorgan.org.uk

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Old 21-05-2007, 07:35 PM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

In article , DavidM
writes
Phyllis and Jim wrote, On 19/05/2007 18:48:
We have never tried a totally fishless pond. I suspect it would have
fewer nutrients than our koi/goldie pond as it would have less
fishwaste.


The excess nutrients come from the fish food that we throw in, it is
packed full of calories that the fish turn in to urea.
Many people have low maintenance gardens ponds with a few fish that are
never fed. There is no pumped filtration or outside intervention. The
population of fish (and plants) is self regulating depending on the
available resources. Fish eat plant matter or invertebrates so if the
pond is in balance, the nutrient level will be just right. Probably wont
be a great pond though, and fish will die if the system is unbalanced.


I have a pond like that and it is very healthy. There is one huge Golden
Orfe in it And I have never fed him once. He lives very well on a diet
of small beasties, tadpoles and plants, and grows each year just eating
what is naturally available to him in the pond. The frogs love it too.
The only maintenance I have to do is cut back the plants twice a year.

Angela.

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Old 21-05-2007, 08:53 PM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

Angela Lamb wrote, On 21/05/2007 18:35:
In article , DavidM
writes
Phyllis and Jim wrote, On 19/05/2007 18:48:
We have never tried a totally fishless pond. I suspect it would have
fewer nutrients than our koi/goldie pond as it would have less
fishwaste.

The excess nutrients come from the fish food that we throw in, it is
packed full of calories that the fish turn in to urea.
Many people have low maintenance gardens ponds with a few fish that are
never fed. There is no pumped filtration or outside intervention. The
population of fish (and plants) is self regulating depending on the
available resources. Fish eat plant matter or invertebrates so if the
pond is in balance, the nutrient level will be just right. Probably wont
be a great pond though, and fish will die if the system is unbalanced.


I have a pond like that and it is very healthy. There is one huge Golden
Orfe in it And I have never fed him once. He lives very well on a diet
of small beasties, tadpoles and plants, and grows each year just eating
what is naturally available to him in the pond. The frogs love it too.
The only maintenance I have to do is cut back the plants twice a year.


Not sure why I said it would not a great pond, my apologies. Small still
water ponds would probably have less tolerance to over stocking. But as
you say, one fish can thrive in a balanced pond.

I've always fancied keeping a single large fish in a pond or tank. A
local aquatic centre kept a Giant gourami in their shop. He was a
monster, even by Koi standards.

Have you lost fish in the past to infection? Not that it's any
reflection on the pond keeping, I just imagine the risk of anaerobic
bacteria is quite high in a still pond.

--
DavidM
www.djmorgan.org.uk

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Old 21-05-2007, 09:40 PM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

In article , DavidM
writes
Not sure why I said it would not a great pond, my apologies. Small still
water ponds would probably have less tolerance to over stocking. But as
you say, one fish can thrive in a balanced pond.

I've always fancied keeping a single large fish in a pond or tank. A
local aquatic centre kept a Giant gourami in their shop. He was a
monster, even by Koi standards.

Have you lost fish in the past to infection? Not that it's any
reflection on the pond keeping, I just imagine the risk of anaerobic
bacteria is quite high in a still pond.


No need to apologise - each to their own I never lost any fish to
infection but to next door's cat! My son bought 6 little Orfes 7 years
ago and the cat fished five of them! I have to confess I was more
worried about the cat puncturing the pond liner than the poor fish at
the time! - which is why I never replaced them. The current one is 10"
long now. The water isn't always still though. I run a fountain
intermittently, but there is no filter system other than the little
filter on the fountain pump that I clean out if the fountain spray
depletes, - that seems to be around every three years. At the moment my
yellow irises in the pond are just about to burst into flower.

Angela.



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Old 03-07-2007, 01:30 AM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

DavidM wrote:
...
Many people have low maintenance gardens ponds with a few fish that are
never fed. There is no pumped filtration or outside intervention. The
population of fish (and plants) is self regulating depending on the
available resources. Fish eat plant matter or invertebrates so if the
pond is in balance, the nutrient level will be just right.


I was thinking about setting up a planted aquarium along those lines,
but the experts in the aquarium groups I went to for advice seemed
pretty adamant about it not being feasible in an aquarium of any
reasonable size. It occurred to me it might be more feasible to do
this as a pond, so I searched this newsgroup and found your message.
Can you point me to any information or advice about setting up such a
pond? The phrase "low maintenance" sounds trivial, but I'm sure it
requires careful design and an initial period of "high maintenance"
while working to reach the necessary state of balance.

Thanks!

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Old 03-07-2007, 03:20 AM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

I'm not sure it's all that hard, or at least I didn't
work all that hard at it...
I set up a shallow water pond. Filled it full of
plants and let it go. The only outside influence
it had was being hit by the sprinklers at night
and I added water from time to time when it
got really hot out. (Live in an arid area with hot
summers.) It was full of plants, snails,
aquatic insect larvae and frogs/tadpoles. It had
fish for a time, never fed, but I decided they
would eat too many frogs eggs and I really wanted
a lot of tadpoles/frogs so I took them out.
The only way it got out of balance was actually
Mother Nature's plan - the plants started filling it
in and I decided not to invest a lot of labor to weeding.

My other pond has fish and plants and the fish are not
fed. It does have a waterfall. The fish waste is taken
care of by the plants, including a heavy growth of
hornwort and the waterfall full of rock. Everyone
thrives and reproduces. I suspect there are insect
larvae in the hornwort. Snails get eaten and I haven't
seen any outside the waterfall container.

I like fishless ponds best of all as you get more
opportunities to see more critters. I have a deck
pond that has seed shrimp and tubiflex worms in
it, in addition to snails and tadpoles.

k :-)
http://tinyurl.com/6bguh ~ new pond keeper info
http://tinyurl.com/yp64db ~ slide show of pond

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Old 03-07-2007, 03:31 PM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

k wrote:


My other pond has fish and plants and the fish are not
fed. It does have a waterfall. The fish waste is taken
care of by the plants, including a heavy growth of
hornwort and the waterfall full of rock. Everyone
thrives and reproduces. I suspect there are insect
larvae in the hornwort. Snails get eaten and I haven't
seen any outside the waterfall container.


So are you saying that you use nothing other than natural systems to
filter the pond? Or do you have a filter in addition to the plants? Or
do you use the waterfall as a veggie filter?

Gill

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Old 03-07-2007, 03:31 PM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?

kuyper wrote:



I was thinking about setting up a planted aquarium along those lines,
but the experts in the aquarium groups I went to for advice seemed
pretty adamant about it not being feasible in an aquarium of any
reasonable size. It occurred to me it might be more feasible to do
this as a pond, so I searched this newsgroup and found your message.


The problem with attempting a self-sustaining aquarium is that it is a
closed system whereas nature will take over with a pond. A pond will
attract wildlife that will become a source of food for the fish and
other creatures living there. An aquarium will generally only have what
you have introduced. Because the area is enclosed it becomes very
difficult, if not almost nigh on impossible, to sustain sufficient
foodstuff to maintain without supplemental feeding. In a pond, nature
will supply the foodstuff.

Can you point me to any information or advice about setting up such a
pond? The phrase "low maintenance" sounds trivial, but I'm sure it
requires careful design and an initial period of "high maintenance"
while working to reach the necessary state of balance.

Thanks!


I'm in the process of constructing a pond, and like yourself, want it as
low maintenance as possible. I'm taken with the idea of using a veggie
filter to keep it as natural as possible but will probably chicken out
and use conventional filtration as well. I will be very interested in
the replies that you get.

Gill

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Old 03-07-2007, 05:45 PM posted to rec.ponds.moderated
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Default Do Ponds Need SOMETHING that Burgeons?


Gill wrote
So are you saying that you use nothing other than natural systems to
filter the pond? Or do you have a filter in addition to the plants? Or
do you use the waterfall as a veggie filter?


Usually the waterfall if full of watercress. But if you look at the
slideshow you'll see it is clear this year as DH wanted to see if it
could do the job alone and he likes to see the
waterfall. The hornwort took off and the pond is full of it and I'm
wondering if it is a direct result and is taking over the job as
veggie filter?
The pond is 3,000+ gallons and is lightly stocked.The hornwort is
hiding the fish much of the day and that's probably a good thing as a
heron was stopping by once in a while.

k :-)
http://tinyurl.com/6bguh ~ new pond keeper info
http://tinyurl.com/yp64db ~ slide show of pond

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