The liner went in today.
 

Finally!

I've been lucky that it's stayed so warm here, today has been the first real
cool day we've had. It all seems to have been fairly uneventful, but I still
have a lot of landscaping left to do. I think a lot of the finer touches
will wait for spring. I was pleased that the folds aren't too bad,
considering the wrinkles I had with the underlay. There's still a lot of
plumbing to do, but I'm not even going to cut the liner for the skimmer or
bottom drain until spring. The epdm has a bit of a pleasant bluish tinge
compared to the old PVC liner.

It's been a little quiet here lately, so I just thought I'd let you know
that some of use northern procrastinators are still ponding. :-)

The liner went in today.
 

Nice to hear of the progress.

Any pics?

Jim

The liner went in today.
 

How big is your pond? I too am building a new one, the liner went in
yesterday along with some field stone, today I hope to finish lying the
Stone
"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
ups.com...
Nice to hear of the progress.

Any pics?

Jim

The liner went in today.
 

"Peter Pan" wrote in message
. ..
How big is your pond? I too am building a new one, the liner went in
yesterday along with some field stone, today I hope to finish lying the
Stone
"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
ups.com...
Nice to hear of the progress.

Any pics?

Jim

Not very, maybe 10*7 now. Cap stones will have to weight for the week-end. I
want to relevel the edge in any event.

The liner went in today.
 

Here's what I have so far


http://www.geocities.com/exar119/Pon...?1193878974934

I stink at web design so this is the best I could do...

The liner went in today.
 

I like the history aspect of your site. Its look will change
immeasurably in a once it is full and the edges covered!

Jim

The liner went in today.
 

my next step is to trim the liner, then the foliage, I'm hoping to have it
finished before the weather turns nasty cold
"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
s.com...
I like the history aspect of your site. Its look will change
immeasurably in a once it is full and the edges covered!

Jim

The liner went in today.
 

"Bill Stock" wrote in message
...
Finally!

I've been lucky that it's stayed so warm here,

Not luck ~ global warming.

today has been the first real cool day we've had. It all seems to have been
fairly uneventful, but I still have a lot of landscaping left to do. I
think a lot of the finer touches will wait for spring. I was pleased that
the folds aren't too bad, considering the wrinkles I had with the underlay.
There's still a lot of plumbing to do, but I'm not even going to cut the
liner for the skimmer or bottom drain until spring. The epdm has a bit of a
pleasant bluish tinge compared to the old PVC liner.

It's been a little quiet here lately, so I just thought I'd let you know
that some of use northern procrastinators are still ponding. :-)

The liner went in today.
 

"Peter Pan" wrote in message
...
Here's what I have so far


http://www.geocities.com/exar119/Pon...?1193878974934

I stink at web design so this is the best I could do...

Very nice, I won't have a pond that big until the next life. :-(

The liner went in today.
 

Not luck ~ global warming.

Yeah Global warming, I mean the earth's temp rose by 1 degree in the past
100 years.... man that's a catastrophe.. Good thing we have Al Gore flying
around in his private jet to tell us to cut back on fuel consumption because
after all man is causing it

The liner went in today.
 

"Peter Pan" wrote in message
...
Here's what I have so far


http://www.geocities.com/exar119/Pon...?1193878974934

I stink at web design so this is the best I could do...
that is pretty bad. :-)

The liner went in today.
 

Peter Pan wrote:
Not luck ~ global warming.


Yeah Global warming, I mean the earth's temp rose by 1 degree in the past
100 years.... man that's a catastrophe.. Good thing we have Al Gore flying
around in his private jet to tell us to cut back on fuel consumption because
after all man is causing it

I don't think that the facts regarding global warming and the melting of
the ice caps can be disputed. It also can't be disputed that this has
happened throughout the history of this planet (ice ages etc). Climate
change has and always will happen. The real question is to what degree
are we accelarating this by our behaviour?

Now, whatever school of thought you subcribe to on global warming, we,
surely, all have a responsibility to use resources with care and a duty
not to turn the planet into a polluted, rubbish tip.

Gill
PS I agree that there is a certain irony in Al Gore and others jetting
around the place to spread the message

The liner went in today.
 

Ice cores from Antarctica go back 650,000 years and thru 7 ice ages. Both CO2 and
oxygen (the ratio of the isotopes yield temperature information) are trapped in the
ice as it is formed.

NEVER once during the last 650,000 thousand years has the CO2 level gone over 300
ppm, until recently.

"Carbon dioxide concentrations dropped to 180 ppm during the coldest periods and
reached a maximum of 300 ppm in the warmest periods. Current CO2 concentrations are
at about 380 ppm." http://gwfact.rso.wisc.edu/history.html

"An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is
rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person
presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First,
an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her
actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting
the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument
the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the
following form:

1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B makes an attack on person A.
3. Therefore A's claim is false. "

Ingrid

Peter Pan wrote:
Yeah Global warming, I mean the earth's temp rose by 1 degree in the past
100 years.... man that's a catastrophe..

On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 11:33:38 CST, Gill Passman wrote:
I don't think that the facts regarding global warming and the melting of
the ice caps can be disputed. It also can't be disputed that this has
happened throughout the history of this planet (ice ages etc). Climate
change has and always will happen. The real question is to what degree
are we accelarating this by our behaviour?

The liner went in today.
 

Global warming

Just some random thoughts: How can so many humans NOT affect the climate?

Like too many fish in a pond. Global warming, whether you're a believer
not, it doesn't hurt to clean up our act. Kind of like it doesn't hurt to
pray, whether there is or isn't a pond goddess. If there isn't, oh well,
but if there is.... clear pond for you when you go to the big pond in the
sky. ;-) ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

The liner went in today.
 

wrote:
Ice cores from Antarctica go back 650,000 years and thru 7 ice ages. Both CO2 and
oxygen (the ratio of the isotopes yield temperature information) are trapped in the
ice as it is formed.

NEVER once during the last 650,000 thousand years has the CO2 level gone over 300
ppm, until recently.

"Carbon dioxide concentrations dropped to 180 ppm during the coldest periods and
reached a maximum of 300 ppm in the warmest periods. Current CO2 concentrations are
at about 380 ppm." http://gwfact.rso.wisc.edu/history.html

"An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is
rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person
presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First,
an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her
actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting
the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument
the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the
following form:

1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B makes an attack on person A.
3. Therefore A's claim is false. "

Ingrid



I find your points interesting....and you have provided the stats that
I've been too lazy to look up - I still maintain that climate change is
part and parcel of living on this planet but coupled with us
contributing to the speeding up of the process.....or indeed worsening
its effect.....but although 75% convinced by the global warming
arguement, the 25% of me that is not is 100% convinced about our need to
cut down our poisoning of our plant through pollution and our
destruction of species who have just as much right as us to live here.

I said "ironic" when it came to Al Gore - and indeed it is that in this
world that we have created that in order to get a message across the
problem is further contributed to....

Basically you are summing up the politics of our world today.....you
could easily substitute Person A/B for Country A/B......furthermore we
also see the arguement of "why should I change my ways when xxxxx
continues to act in the same way and therefore gets a short term
economic advantage over me?". I think the whole pollution issue,
irrespective of whether it contributes to global warming or not, needs
to transcend country borders and politics and we all need to take
responsibility for providing a planet for the future of not only our
"children" but also for every living creature or plant that shares the
planet with us......and it needs to be above party politics and national
interest but be a global goal.....

Now, there is a thing that I would term "Global warming/Climate change
Fatique" where ever single thing is put down to this being a cause -
example is 2006 the summer in the UK was incredibly hot and we had
drought orders in the SE - climate change we were told.....summer 2007
was one of the wettest on record and we had flood warnings in force (and
indeed severe flooding in some areas) - climate change we were
told.....Now I'm not saying that these weather extremes aren't down to
climate change but it does cause a certain amount of sceptisism. Cold
winters - climate change - warm winter next year - climate change....to
the layman this makes a nonsense of the whole thing and an inclination
to believe that the "global warming crew" will blame anything a little
out of the norm on climate change and pollution.....and this is to a
certain degree understandable but it can also be used as an excuse not
to act and to riducle the arguements against taking any action....and
irrespective of whether we "believe" in the hypothesis of global warming
or not we still need to take action to protect our planet....

I'm now going to add the Just my Opinion

Gill

The liner went in today.
 

When Gore flies somewhere to deliver his message his trip will hopefully reduce
carbon emissions by a great deal compared with the emissions he contributed by
flying. Compare that to a business exec that is flying somewhere and the outcome is
making some widget that will use even more carbon emissions.

There are separate questions/facts to consider.
1. Has CO2 increased to unprecedented levels?
CO2 absorbs and holds IR extremely well. As CO2 levels increase, temperature
increases. As CO2 levels decrease, temperature decreases.
CO2 levels have never been higher in 650,000 years than they are now.

2. What is causing the increased CO2 levels?
Natural cycles, volcanoes etc, but no other natural cycle in 650K years has been this
high. What is different in this cycle is humans burning fossil fuels.

Consider the cycle of ozone depletion. The "hole" was huge and getting bigger every
year. Humans banned CFCs and the hole has stopped expanding and appears to be
closing.

Carefully examine the bias of people (spokespeople, scientists, etc) who deny the
human factor and there will be some link to carbon emissions for money.

Ingrid

On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 22:42:54 CST, Gill Passman wrote:
I said "ironic" when it came to Al Gore - and indeed it is that in this
world that we have created that in order to get a message across the
problem is further contributed to....

The liner went in today.
 

very good point. Our big contribution to cleaning up was moving from the burbs into
the city where DH can walk to work, I have a short, slow drive. It has not only cut
the transportation costs, but the mental health aspects of driving 5 minutes along an
interesting street. I wish I was younger and could ride a bike :( ...
Ingrid

On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:17:38 CST, ~ jan wrote:
Just some random thoughts: How can so many humans NOT affect the climate?

The liner went in today.
 

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 10:22:21 CST, wrote:

very good point. Our big contribution to cleaning up was moving from the burbs into
the city where DH can walk to work, I have a short, slow drive. It has not only cut
the transportation costs, but the mental health aspects of driving 5 minutes along an
interesting street. I wish I was younger and could ride a bike :( ...
Ingrid

Giggle statement following... can't be just age Ingrid, I know you're not
79, but my Dad is, and he puts in 20 miles/day easy. :-)

Course commuting to work on a bike is a whole 'nother matter, especially if
one has to be there when it is still dark out, and/or many areas get
"quite" chilly this time of year. Than there is the question, do the roads
have good shoulders or bike trails?.... A 5 minute drive, up and down hills
is nothing, by bike could be grueling.

Not that it can't be done, my DH rode his bike 10 miles to work for years.
~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

The liner went in today.
 

Hi..

wrote:

very good point. Our big contribution to cleaning up was moving
from the burbs into the city where DH can walk to work, I have
a short, slow drive. It has not only cut the transportation costs,
but the mental health aspects of driving 5 minutes along an
interesting street.

Ingrid,
our main problem is _wasted_ energy but there are so many ways to conserve
it efficiently..

One example (freshwater):
We're 3 at the moment, our consumption of water is ~60 cube meters per year
including aquaria, summer ponds and garden watering (~55 litres (15g) per
person and day)..

I wish I was younger and could ride a bike :( ...

Hm.., the older I get the more mellow I feel - so why should I wish to be
younger..?

BTW: Did you see the latest pics of Bogota (drop of temperature, ice
catastrophe) on TV..? :-(
--
cu
Marco

The liner went in today.
 

Marco Schwarz wrote:
Hi..




Ingrid,
our main problem is _wasted_ energy but there are so many ways to conserve
it efficiently..

Not only wasted energy but also inefficient sources of energy that are
pollutants......there is a massive business park, the main football
stadium and out of town shops powered from just one wind turbine - and
that wind turbine also contributes to the national grid......clean,
environmentally friendly sources of power are the way to go IMO - yes,
conserve energy where possible but the solution is more than that -
clean energy generation like harnessing wind/sun/water is the way to go.
This does not impact the environment, other than I guess people might
say wind turbines/solar panels are unslightly...but I would counter this
by the sight of a coal powered power station bellowing smoke into the
air is far uglier - BTW I like wind turbines

Then of course we need to look at recycling our waste products - all the
stuff that goes to landfill contributes to build ups of methane gas and
of course there has to be a limit as to how much of our rubbish/trash we
can actually bury.....it really doesn't take too much effort to sort the
stuff - currently our council won't recycle food stuffs but I heard of a
gizmo that does just this (so even less going into landfill)....it is
called a green cone. The link is a UK one but you'll get the general idea:-

http://www.greencone.com/home.asp?lang=1

And of course, one of the biggest frustrations is the amount of
packaging used when we do buy stuff - OK cutting back might cause a
crisis in the packaging manufacturing industry but it sure would cut
down on waste and the energy used to produce the stuff that we just open
and throw away....

Gill

The liner went in today.
 

Wind energy ~~~~~~
We have two sites in our area. One run by my husband's
company. They are so strong that they can be seen on
the doppler radar by weather persons 400 miles away.

Of course, where there is a will there is somebody
to oppose it.
There is a protest group all set up for the next project
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/tch/lo...-9342335c.html
The old 'not in my backyard' effect.

k :-)

The liner went in today.
 

Windmill farm in our area taken 11-4-07
http://tinyurl.com/2frzdu

k :-)

The liner went in today.
 

k wrote:
Wind energy ~~~~~~
We have two sites in our area. One run by my husband's
company. They are so strong that they can be seen on
the doppler radar by weather persons 400 miles away.

Of course, where there is a will there is somebody
to oppose it.
There is a protest group all set up for the next project
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/tch/lo...-9342335c.html
The old 'not in my backyard' effect.

k :-)


Hmmmm.....so a bunch of windmills are a threat but dealing with
radioactive, nuclear waste isn't? The "not in my backyard" arguement is
often heard over here as well but what happens when we run out of fossil
fuels or we burn so much that the planet heads for destruction - global
warming will wipe out way more indiginous species than the siting of a
few windmills ever would (by the way loved the pic of the wind
farm).....the burning of fossil fuels and indeed probably the use of
atomic power is almost certainly backed by big business interests with
political muscle and sadly money still talks louder than what is best
for the planet......just look at those countries who refuse to sign up
to any treatice on this......and the only reason is politics, loss of
votes and pressure from industries who will lose out with a greener
economy....

Gill

The liner went in today.
 

dealing with
radioactive, nuclear waste isn't?

Well...... actually DH will tell you it is not
a problem. As his company, which runs one of the
wind farms, also runs a nuclear power plant ;-)

k :-)

The liner went in today.
 

The REAL source of unlimited energy would be solar panels out in space. wouldnt take
up any space on earth, set them out to the side of earth so wont shade earth either.
beam the energy back to earth. OR, tap the "solar wind" which is particles as well
and EMS.
I dont know why we cant buy liquids in those little triangle packages like in Europe.
so convenient. we dont buy much canned stuff, but we still have too much plastic
trash. Ingrid

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 15:17:34 CST, Gill Passman wrote:
Not only wasted energy but also inefficient sources of energy that are
pollutants......there is a massive business park, the main football
stadium and out of town shops powered from just one wind turbine - and
that wind turbine also contributes to the national grid......clean,
environmentally friendly sources of power are the way to go IMO

And of course, one of the biggest frustrations is the amount of
packaging used when we do buy stuff - OK cutting back might cause a
crisis in the packaging manufacturing industry but it sure would cut
down on waste and the energy used to produce the stuff that we just open
and throw away....

Gill

The liner went in today.
 

youth is wasted on the young. I like mentally where I am, but not physically.

I thought I heard something, but didnt pay attention, was writing an exam for my
students. got any good links for the ice storm? Ingrid

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 12:19:23 CST, Marco Schwarz wrote:
Hm.., the older I get the more mellow I feel - so why should I wish to be
younger..?

BTW: Did you see the latest pics of Bogota (drop of temperature, ice
catastrophe) on TV..? :-(

The liner went in today.
 

I suffer from now being a wimp and overweight. I just cant do that kind of exercise
anymore. I seriously have tried and cant get more than 1/2 block. Ingrid

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 11:17:58 CST, ~ jan wrote:
Course commuting to work on a bike is a whole 'nother matter, especially if
one has to be there when it is still dark out, and/or many areas get
"quite" chilly this time of year. Than there is the question, do the roads
have good shoulders or bike trails?.... A 5 minute drive, up and down hills
is nothing, by bike could be grueling.

Not that it can't be done, my DH rode his bike 10 miles to work for years.
~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

The liner went in today.
 

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 18:06:11 CST, Gill Passman wrote:
2 countries, the US and Australia IIRC. Ingrid

..just look at those countries who refuse to sign up
to any treatice on this......and the only reason is politics, loss of
votes and pressure from industries who will lose out with a greener
economy....

Gill