I live in Michigan and have small pond about 5 x 6 maybe 300 gal .......and
is about 15 to 16 inch deep...I have 6 goldfish about 5 to 6 inch's and I am
concerned that pond may not be deep enough for them to survive......I do not
have place for them inside.......I am looking for a low cost option.....any
advise would be appreciated...

In article , wrote:
I live in Michigan and have small pond about 5 x 6 maybe 300 gal .......and
is about 15 to 16 inch deep...I have 6 goldfish about 5 to 6 inch's and I am
concerned that pond may not be deep enough for them to survive......I do not
have place for them inside.......I am looking for a low cost option.....any
advise would be appreciated...

I use a small air bubbler and a low wattage heater.The air bubbler can be
bought at Walmart for about $7,the heater will cost about $35 and can be
bought at pond supply stores and also on Ebay.Rick

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:31:51 CST, wrote:

I live in Michigan and have small pond about 5 x 6 maybe 300 gal .......and
is about 15 to 16 inch deep...I have 6 goldfish about 5 to 6 inch's and I am
concerned that pond may not be deep enough for them to survive......I do not
have place for them inside.......I am looking for a low cost option.....any
advise would be appreciated...

Get a stock tank heater ($20-25) from a farm supply store. Then go to the
Xmas display stuff and get a heavy-duty on/off switch ($15-20). I have one
with a remote control. This will keep your costs lower by only using heat
as needed. The heaters do have a temp control, but they are primitive. Why
I like to have the control when mine is on/off for sure.

OR.... you can get a pond one that is only 100 watts at a pet supply place
and plug it in and leave it. Unfortunately they run anywhere from ($50 -
80). In the meantime, you can use an air stone (should have one anyway)
until it is really cold. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

wrote in message
...
I live in Michigan and have small pond about 5 x 6 maybe 300 gal .......and
is about 15 to 16 inch deep...I have 6 goldfish about 5 to 6 inch's and I
am
concerned that pond may not be deep enough for them to survive......I do
not
have place for them inside.......I am looking for a low cost
option.....any
advise would be appreciated...
============================
You can buy a child's wading pool or 200g horse water trough ad the filter
from outside. Bring your fish into your garage or basement for the winter.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

You can also cover the pond with a heavy plastic like we do. We make a
rough frame of 2x4's over the pond at drape the plastic over that. We do
all this and live is SW Ontario and the pond has never totally frozen over.

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:31:51 CST, wrote:

I live in Michigan and have small pond about 5 x 6 maybe 300 gal
.......and
is about 15 to 16 inch deep...I have 6 goldfish about 5 to 6 inch's and I
am
concerned that pond may not be deep enough for them to survive......I do
not
have place for them inside.......I am looking for a low cost
option.....any
advise would be appreciated...

Get a stock tank heater ($20-25) from a farm supply store. Then go to the
Xmas display stuff and get a heavy-duty on/off switch ($15-20). I have one
with a remote control. This will keep your costs lower by only using heat
as needed. The heaters do have a temp control, but they are primitive. Why
I like to have the control when mine is on/off for sure.

OR.... you can get a pond one that is only 100 watts at a pet supply place
and plug it in and leave it. Unfortunately they run anywhere from ($50 -
80). In the meantime, you can use an air stone (should have one anyway)
until it is really cold. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:31:51 CST, wrote:

I live in Michigan and have small pond about 5 x 6 maybe 300 gal .......and
is about 15 to 16 inch deep...I have 6 goldfish about 5 to 6 inch's and I am
concerned that pond may not be deep enough for them to survive......I do not
have place for them inside.......I am looking for a low cost option.....any
advise would be appreciated...

I spent a winter in Sault Ste Marie, Michigan and if you are in the UP
I'd suggest that goldfish are cheaper than stock heaters. I might try
an air pump (To keep a hole open in the ice.) if I was really attached
to my pets, but a stock heater is expensive to operate. I've read
where others have success with 100 watt heaters, but I escaped to the
South a few years ago and never had the experience.

You may find a cheaper one, but here is one:
http://www.kyhorse.com/store/equipment/de-icers.htm
You might notice the 1500 watt rating.

The air pump has to be protected against the elements a bit to keep it
from freezing up. Placing it under a bucket and protecting the air
hose from condensate (Air hose should travel downhill, no up and down
spots to catch moisture.) should work.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

"Rick Yerke" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
I live in Michigan and have small pond about 5 x 6 maybe 300 gal
.......and
is about 15 to 16 inch deep...I have 6 goldfish about 5 to 6 inch's and I
am
concerned that pond may not be deep enough for them to survive......I do
not
have place for them inside.......I am looking for a low cost
option.....any
advise would be appreciated...

I use a small air bubbler and a low wattage heater.The air bubbler can be
bought at Walmart for about $7,the heater will cost about $35 and can be
bought at pond supply stores and also on Ebay.Rick
===============================
That may not be enough for Michigan. They have some really cold winter
weather there. It would be safer to bring them in.
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 09:09:17 CST, "Henry & Carolyn"
wrote:

You can also cover the pond with a heavy plastic like we do. We make a
rough frame of 2x4's over the pond at drape the plastic over that. We do
all this and live is SW Ontario and the pond has never totally frozen over.


Yes, good point, that will make a BIG difference, just talk with Ingrid who
is able to feed her fish most of the winter by covering and supplying a
little heat.

I wonder if the OP was looking for a cheap up front cost, or power usage?
Pay a little more and lower the power usage, or pay a little up front and
pay over time via more power? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Reel McKoi wrote:


"Rick Yerke" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
I live in Michigan and have small pond about 5 x 6 maybe 300 gal
.......and
is about 15 to 16 inch deep...I have 6 goldfish about 5 to 6 inch's and I
am
concerned that pond may not be deep enough for them to survive......I do
not
have place for them inside.......I am looking for a low cost
option.....any
advise would be appreciated...

I use a small air bubbler and a low wattage heater.The air bubbler can be
bought at Walmart for about $7,the heater will cost about $35 and can be
bought at pond supply stores and also on Ebay.Rick
===============================
That may not be enough for Michigan. They have some really cold winter
weather there. It would be safer to bring them in.

No colder than I used to deal with in Ontario. And we had regulars in
Ottawa and Sudbury who managed to keep them in no deeper ponds than that,
without heaters.

Hal's advice on bubblers is exactly what I would have given.
--
derek

In article , wrote:
I live in Michigan and have small pond about 5 x 6 maybe 300 gal .......and
is about 15 to 16 inch deep...I have 6 goldfish about 5 to 6 inch's and I am
concerned that pond may not be deep enough for them to survive......I do not
have place for them inside.......I am looking for a low cost option.....any
advise would be appreciated...

I guess I don't need to worry about mine only being 4ft deep, then.
Flint, Michigan.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography

Web Site: www.destarr.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
Reel McKoi wrote:
That may not be enough for Michigan. They have some really cold winter
weather there. It would be safer to bring them in.
========
No colder than I used to deal with in Ontario. And we had regulars in
Ottawa and Sudbury who managed to keep them in no deeper ponds than that,
without heaters.

When they die here in the winter in shallow ponds, and a bubbler us used,
they claim it was hyper chilling. Disturbing the water layers until the
bottom layer was too cold for the fish to survive.

Hal's advice on bubblers is exactly what I would have given.

If there's no heater wouldn't the bottom warm layer mix with the colder
upper layer and "chill" the bottom to the same temperature as the top (near
freezing) layer?


--
derek

--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

Reel McKoi wrote:

When they die here in the winter in shallow ponds, and a bubbler us used,
they claim it was hyper chilling. Disturbing the water layers until the
bottom layer was too cold for the fish to survive.

Hal's advice on bubblers is exactly what I would have given.

If there's no heater wouldn't the bottom warm layer mix with the colder
upper layer and "chill" the bottom to the same temperature as the top
(near freezing) layer?

Since I don't believe that you can get stratification in winter in a 15"
deep pond, it makes no difference (to temperature) whether a bubbler is
used or not. The bubbler exists just to keep a hole open, and . The
concept of "hyper chilling" makes no sense to me. Goldfish will survive
water right down to the freezing point (with the odd claim that they
actually survived freezing - but I think there'd be lab experiments to show
that if if really could happen). You can't make a pond get colder than
that without salting it (noticeably more than the prophylactic salting many
use), and a bubbler would actually make it even _less_ likely (try super
cooling water at home - you can do it, but stirring it will make it freeze
immediately).

15" is (barely) deep enough to keep from freezing in most parts of Michigan,
most winters.
--
derek

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
Reel McKoi wrote:

When they die here in the winter in shallow ponds, and a bubbler us used,
they claim it was hyper chilling. Disturbing the water layers until the
bottom layer was too cold for the fish to survive.

Hal's advice on bubblers is exactly what I would have given.

If there's no heater wouldn't the bottom warm layer mix with the colder
upper layer and "chill" the bottom to the same temperature as the top
(near freezing) layer?
===========
Since I don't believe that you can get stratification in winter in a 15"
deep pond, it makes no difference (to temperature) whether a bubbler is
used or not. The bubbler exists just to keep a hole open, and . The
concept of "hyper chilling" makes no sense to me. Goldfish will survive
water right down to the freezing point (with the odd claim that they
actually survived freezing - but I think there'd be lab experiments to
show
that if if really could happen). You can't make a pond get colder than
that without salting it (noticeably more than the prophylactic salting
many
use), and a bubbler would actually make it even _less_ likely (try super
cooling water at home - you can do it, but stirring it will make it freeze
immediately).

15" is (barely) deep enough to keep from freezing in most parts of
Michigan,
most winters.
--
derek
========================
Thank you. I learned something new. :-)

Some people here in zone 6 bring their fish in because they sometimes don't
survive the winter outside. Starvation? Cold? Disease? Lack of oxygen?
Who knows? Last year we had ice 4" deep on the ponds.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:35:32 CST, Derek Broughton
wrote:

Since I don't believe that you can get stratification in winter in a 15"
deep pond, it makes no difference (to temperature) whether a bubbler is
used or not. The bubbler exists just to keep a hole open, and . The
concept of "hyper chilling" makes no sense to me. Goldfish will survive
water right down to the freezing point (with the odd claim that they
actually survived freezing - but I think there'd be lab experiments to show
that if if really could happen). You can't make a pond get colder than
that without salting it (noticeably more than the prophylactic salting many
use), and a bubbler would actually make it even _less_ likely (try super
cooling water at home - you can do it, but stirring it will make it freeze
immediately).

....stirring make it freeze immediately....

That goes against the principal that moving water doesn't freeze as fast as
still water, doesn't it? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

"~ jan" wrote:

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:35:32 CST, Derek Broughton
wrote:

Since I don't believe that you can get stratification in winter in a 15"
deep pond, it makes no difference (to temperature) whether a bubbler is
used or not. The bubbler exists just to keep a hole open, and . The
concept of "hyper chilling" makes no sense to me. Goldfish will survive
water right down to the freezing point (with the odd claim that they
actually survived freezing - but I think there'd be lab experiments to show
that if if really could happen). You can't make a pond get colder than
that without salting it (noticeably more than the prophylactic salting many
use), and a bubbler would actually make it even _less_ likely (try super
cooling water at home - you can do it, but stirring it will make it freeze
immediately).

....stirring make it freeze immediately....

That goes against the principal that moving water doesn't freeze as fast as
still water, doesn't it? ~ jan

And hot water freezes faster than cold.

Oh, wait, sorry, wrong newsgroup. That's rec.physics.

San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Koi, Goldfish, and RES named Colombo.