I have ice on the hot tub pond this morning and the fish are almost
still. They can be seen through the very thin ice that is almost
clear in one spot. I have a picture.

The in ground pond with three filter barrels in the ground is still
ice free and had a water temp of 41F this morning. The fish were in a
better mood than I, as I scooped out the leaves the wind had brought
in the past couple days. I shouldn't mind a few days of cold, but I
really do and am ready for spring, warm days and green things.
Happy New Year!
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

"Hal" wrote in message
news
I have ice on the hot tub pond this morning and the fish are almost
still. They can be seen through the very thin ice that is almost
clear in one spot. I have a picture.

The in ground pond with three filter barrels in the ground is still
ice free and had a water temp of 41F this morning. The fish were in a
better mood than I, as I scooped out the leaves the wind had brought
in the past couple days. I shouldn't mind a few days of cold, but I
really do and am ready for spring, warm days and green things.
Happy New Year!


You DO know you should have air bubblers in the ponds to keep the tops from
being sealed by ice, don't you?

My old one died the other day, but I had a spare aquarium pump and airstone
bar I dropped in the pond right away to keep a hole open.

I had tapped a 3 foot hole in the ice, but it froe over in a few hours time,
so I figured I'd better find a solution pronto.


--
Gareee
(Gary Tabar Jr.)

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:33:05 CST, Hal wrote:

I have ice on the hot tub pond this morning and the fish are almost
still. They can be seen through the very thin ice that is almost
clear in one spot. I have a picture.
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

Cool no pun intended picture, Hal! Can't complain about murky water
though, nice and clear! :-) ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

"Gareee©" wrote in
:

"Hal" wrote in message
news
I have ice on the hot tub pond this morning and the fish are almost
still. They can be seen through the very thin ice that is almost
clear in one spot. I have a picture.

The in ground pond with three filter barrels in the ground is still
ice free and had a water temp of 41F this morning. The fish were in
a better mood than I, as I scooped out the leaves the wind had
brought in the past couple days. I shouldn't mind a few days of
cold, but I really do and am ready for spring, warm days and green
things. Happy New Year!


You DO know you should have air bubblers in the ponds to keep the tops
from being sealed by ice, don't you?

My old one died the other day, but I had a spare aquarium pump and
airstone bar I dropped in the pond right away to keep a hole open.

I had tapped a 3 foot hole in the ice, but it froe over in a few hours
time, so I figured I'd better find a solution pronto.



You have to be careful about 'tapping' a hole in the ice. You can cause
concussion damage to the fish.

Where I live, the ice is more powerful than a pump or air bubbles. In
fact, some will warn against air bubbles, even though it can keep a
portion of the pond ice free. The concern is moving the warmer, deeper
water to the colder surface can cause problems also. I use a Thermo-Pond
De-Icer (around $45), which only uses 100 watts of power. This keeps a 1
ft diameter hole in the ice, enough for the gas exchange required for my
size pond.

Shalom!

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:00:38 CST, "Gareee©"
wrote:

You DO know you should have air bubblers in the ponds to keep the tops from
being sealed by ice, don't you?

Thanks! I've never considered freezing over a serious problem here.
I did drill a couple holes to see how thick the ice is, and dropped
the water level enough to pull the water away from the hole near the
center where the air bubble formed first. Mostly in fun, because the
10 day weather forecast shows lows above freezing and highs reaching
the 70's after Saturday. (It is about one inch thick.) Surprised me.
It seems the hot tub being elevated above ground by a skirt is quite
different from the other pond with so much ground contact. It has
been fun playing with the ice.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 11:13:58 CST, Hal wrote:

Thanks! I've never considered freezing over a serious problem here.
I did drill a couple holes to see how thick the ice is, and dropped
the water level enough to pull the water away from the hole near the
center where the air bubble formed first. Mostly in fun, because the
10 day weather forecast shows lows above freezing and highs reaching
the 70's after Saturday. (It is about one inch thick.) Surprised me.
It seems the hot tub being elevated above ground by a skirt is quite
different from the other pond with so much ground contact. It has
been fun playing with the ice.

This is what can happen in a stock tank w/bubbler:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/koipond/photos/set1/22.jpg

Ice freezes on top and around the sides, then the air going into tank lifts
the whole shebang. Including plant baskets. This actually lifted two more
inches before the air escaped. The amazing thing was, to my knowledge, all
the little fantails I had in this tank survived! ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Hal wrote:
I have ice on the hot tub pond this morning and the fish are almost
still. They can be seen through the very thin ice that is almost
clear in one spot. I have a picture.

The in ground pond with three filter barrels in the ground is still
ice free and had a water temp of 41F this morning. The fish were in a
better mood than I, as I scooped out the leaves the wind had brought
in the past couple days. I shouldn't mind a few days of cold, but I
really do and am ready for spring, warm days and green things.
Happy New Year!
you can always place a floating heater on the pond to keep it from
freezing over

On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 20:06:40 CST, ~ jan wrote:

This is what can happen in a stock tank w/bubbler:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/koipond/photos/set1/22.jpg

Ice freezes on top and around the sides, then the air going into tank lifts
the whole shebang. Including plant baskets. This actually lifted two more
inches before the air escaped. The amazing thing was, to my knowledge, all
the little fantails I had in this tank survived! ~ jan

That's wild! If I had known, I might have done that just for fun. I
had an air pump inside the pond during the summer, because the water
temperature rose so high during the day, but had just removed and
cleaned it last month and decided against it in winter. We had our
last below freezing temp for a week anyway last night, so winter is
over here, until the next cold snap.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

Hal wrote:
I have ice on the hot tub pond this morning and the fish are almost
still. They can be seen through the very thin ice that is almost
clear in one spot. I have a picture.

The in ground pond with three filter barrels in the ground is still
ice free and had a water temp of 41F this morning. The fish were in a
better mood than I, as I scooped out the leaves the wind had brought
in the past couple days. I shouldn't mind a few days of cold, but I
really do and am ready for spring, warm days and green things.
Happy New Year!

Hal

If the fish are at the bottom of the pond where the water should be at least
4 deg C they will be fine as long as the freezing conditions don't last too
long.

Don't, under any circumstances use an air pump/air stone to bring water to
the surface - this will do far more harm than good in allowing the overall
pond water temperature to fall to too low a level (still water will have 4
deg C minimum - a characteristic of water which is why ice floats). If the
cold spell is likely to be extended buy a simple floating electric pond
heater (tether it so that it can't touch the liner of the pond and damage
the liner) which will keep a hole open. I have heard of problems with fish
resting against the heater and suffering burns, but have never experienced
this when I have used this method. I have not experienced prolonged icing
over here in cental UK for several years although it has been a problem in
the past

If you have a problem which need solving immediately without access to pond
suppliers, try lowering the level of the pond by a couple of inches, melting
a hole using hot water from a kettle and filling the ice hole with a large
diameter ball (in the UK we normally use a soccer ball) to ensure that the
hole stays open. Enough air will pass the ball/ice interface to prevent a
problem (may not be perfect, but will be enough to work).

Peter
--
Peter & Elizabeth Corser
Leighton Buzzard, UK

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 20:24:33 CST, "Peter Corser"
wrote:

If the fish are at the bottom of the pond where the water should be at least
4 deg C they will be fine as long as the freezing conditions don't last too
long.

Don't, under any circumstances use an air pump/air stone to bring water to
the surface - this will do far more harm than good in allowing the overall
pond water temperature to fall to too low a level (still water will have 4
deg C minimum - a characteristic of water which is why ice floats). If the
cold spell is likely to be extended buy a simple floating electric pond
heater (tether it so that it can't touch the liner of the pond and damage
the liner) which will keep a hole open. I have heard of problems with fish
resting against the heater and suffering burns, but have never experienced
this when I have used this method. I have not experienced prolonged icing
over here in cental UK for several years although it has been a problem in
the past

If you have a problem which need solving immediately without access to pond
suppliers, try lowering the level of the pond by a couple of inches, melting
a hole using hot water from a kettle and filling the ice hole with a large
diameter ball (in the UK we normally use a soccer ball) to ensure that the
hole stays open. Enough air will pass the ball/ice interface to prevent a
problem (may not be perfect, but will be enough to work).

Thanks for being helpful Peter, but I'm not in trouble, just bragging
about the ice since it is such a rare occurrence for me. Actually
the ice is all gone this morning and the water temperature is 36F or
2.2C at the surface this morning and it warms quickly in that pond.
It may take it a few more days to reach temperatures high enough to
begin feeding again, but the fish are in good health.

--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 12:16:51 CST, Peter Pan
wrote:

you can always place a floating heater on the pond to keep it from
freezing over

Hardly worth the trouble, since the ice is gone already.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 09:32:26 CST, Hal wrote:

Thanks for being helpful Peter, but I'm not in trouble, just bragging
about the ice since it is such a rare occurrence for me. Actually
the ice is all gone this morning and the water temperature is 36F or
2.2C at the surface this morning and it warms quickly in that pond.
It may take it a few more days to reach temperatures high enough to
begin feeding again, but the fish are in good health.

You know though... in your situation the idea of a ball, especially a black
one that would absorb heat when the sun came out, would probably be enough.
Assuming your cold came when it was clear? You pond was nice an clean.
Decomposing debris is what does fish in quickly when a pond is iced over,
as it uses up the O2. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:17:22 CST, ~ jan wrote:

You know though... in your situation the idea of a ball, especially a black
one that would absorb heat when the sun came out, would probably be enough.
Assuming your cold came when it was clear? You pond was nice an clean.
Decomposing debris is what does fish in quickly when a pond is iced over,
as it uses up the O2. ~ jan

I understand, but the ice is gone already. I was surprised at the
debris that appears on the bottom after the water got so cold, some
blew in on the wind we had with the cold snap, but today should be
warm enough I can take care of a little clean up and finish hooking up
a barrel filter. I copied Birdman's sand and gravel filter.
http://tinyurl.com/3azz99
Should give me somewhat less than 50 gallons of water to add with the
275 in the hot tub and provide adequate filtering for that much water
although the filter was designed to be added to the last stages of a
larger filtering system as a polisher to clear up the water a bit
more. I thought it should do a much better job than my bucket filter,
but I won't find out until the weather warms. What do you think?
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 09:07:55 CST, Hal wrote:

I understand, but the ice is gone already. I was surprised at the
debris that appears on the bottom after the water got so cold, some
blew in on the wind we had with the cold snap, but today should be
warm enough I can take care of a little clean up and finish hooking up
a barrel filter. I copied Birdman's sand and gravel filter.
http://tinyurl.com/3azz99
Should give me somewhat less than 50 gallons of water to add with the
275 in the hot tub and provide adequate filtering for that much water
although the filter was designed to be added to the last stages of a
larger filtering system as a polisher to clear up the water a bit
more. I thought it should do a much better job than my bucket filter,
but I won't find out until the weather warms. What do you think?

Definitely adequate.... but you'd never talk me into using sand & gravel.
Screen door stuff works very, very, well.... and is light weight when
eventually you'll need to clean it. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 21:32:11 CST, ~ jan wrote:

Definitely adequate.... but you'd never talk me into using sand & gravel.
Screen door stuff works very, very, well.... and is light weight when
eventually you'll need to clean it. ~ jan

Cleaning it what I like most about it. I took the air blower from the
hot tub and blow air bubbles into the 1&1/4" tube that forms a network
of 1/4" holes under the stones at the bottom of the barrel. Another
amazement in my sheltered life to see all the crap that blows to the
top of the filter to be drained into a nearby flower bed. My sand it
crushed oyster shell. Never have to worry about pH in that pond
again.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb