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The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part two)
Contd...
7) Sprinklers... For the flash and the opulent, linking a motion detector and a sprinkler might provide some amusement to scare off the dratted bird. Or, a hose with a timer, that briefly blasts water every 15 minutes or so, enough to startle a pest... if the risk of absent mind folk getting a drenching is bothersome, perhaps the motion detector could be linked with an emergency service strobe light, that would be enough to freak most long leggedy villains away :) 8) Aquatic plants... A heavily planted pond makes life very difficult for predators, even though the dumber fish will always be taken first, shy timid (smart) fish and the little 'uns ought to find good hidey holes easy... rafts of aquatic iris, water lilies make life difficult for hunters to find fish, let alone move around, risk stumbling 9) Fish feeding routine.... Have a special food signal, like tap a stone three times at feed time. You don't want your fish to associate every visitor to your pond, with a free meal.... one day it will be a heron, looking for freebies... 10) Heron statue... what a novel idea, picturesque even. They always seem to be coming on the market, second hand. Never heard anyone had any success with them, other than folk who sell them. Now I have heard of someone linking an owl statue to a motion detector, they swore that worked... that would be a hoot if it tooted when motion was detected.... A convincing statue of a cat, or a dog moved about the pond area, that might have some effect 11) Sonic guns.... A promising new device coming onto the market.... sonic 'guns' that fire a narrow band of extreme noise in a confined direction. Link this to a motion detector and it really will do the job... herons are sensitive and nervous, a violent sound like that pointed at the pond area will blow them away when they trigger the sonic gun. Because of the controlled direction of the sonics, not likely to bother neighbours, much.... Very promising... Another device that can be activated by a motion detector is a strobe light, the sort that emergency vehicles use, that can drive off predatory birds which are unable to hunt with such a distraction... has been reported to keep fish ponds free of attacks recently, not a big deal to find and install. 12) Baseball bats. Herons by nature are incredibly careful hunters, you won't get within 50 feet with a bat. Anyone thinking of trying such a method will quickly learn the bird is a lot smarter than them, that will be just sooooo embarrassing.... 13) Fake crocodile heads... might well work in Southern areas where crocodiles are well known predators. Spectacular episodes of lurking gators, flashing of teeth, boiling water as the gators charge upon unwary herons would stick in the mind of the cunning and sneaky heron. However, many herons are not familiar with crocodiles at a young stage, or have never seen them before so in many cases it just won't be noticed, except, in areas where crocodiles are well known... 14) Tin traps.... A 'scarer' for discouraging prowlers could be a tin trap, a big can with some large round stones to rattle loud within, precariously perched, attached to a fishing line trip wire along likely approaches. Very effective after dark and around morning and dusk... 15) Shishi odoshi.... Another critter scaring method, which may or may not work against predatory birds but is supposedly effective against deer is the Japanese 'shishi odoshi'....If it is a little out of the way without too close neighbours, this old japanese design for scaring deer might be effective, made out of a few large pieces of bamboo and relying on a trickle of water to keep it going, it's supposed to work on deer. Moose might be a different matter... It could drive you nuts if you made it a little loud... Checkout: http://www.canadianhomeworkshop.com/...i_odoshi.shtml 16) Koi 'decoys'.... Folk are reporting they work. Someone somewhere makes rubber? koi which you can moor in the pond in an open area... looking like a dozey sitting 'duck' the heron sneaks up, batters at it a few times, tries to yank the koi plus anchor out of the water, only to discover it can't.... by which time all the real koi are well alerted and in hiding, having a good snicker, I hope. Definitely one confirmed report from a chap who watched a heron outwitted by a decoy battering at the rubber koi on his koi pond, wrestling with the anchored faux fish, that can be said to contribute to improved safety for pond fish, provide rubber sushi The time when predatory birds go pond hopping is often determined by local factors, drought, floods or freezes have made difficult or clouded their usual hunting places, early morning and fog is often a factor to make them bold enough to go close to places where ponds are, compact sushi bars are preferred.... Herons are creatures of habit, they will 'tour' their favourite water holes. When they spot a new pond with fish they will add that pond to their schedule and turn up like clockwork with the same routine... Their eyesight is extremely good, it is something of a big advantage if the fish turn out to be garishly bright koi or goldfish... Not unlike a neon sign shouting 'sushi bar' loud and clear... The loathsome fishbag on stilts might circle a promising pond a couple of times about 400 yards away, checking the whole area then appear to disappear over the horizon... They will disappear if they have spotted anything lurking, perhaps a cat, or fox is about... Several minutes later, they will overfly it once or twice, gliding slow, to bank and turn and seem to go away. Five minutes or so they then come very slow, steady and at a low height from a completely different angle as if to take by surprise any skulking entity... hedgehopping, literally... Should they spot one little thing that frets them, they will abort landing... They want the pond all to themselves, with no complications like dogs, or people about... Only then, when they are absolutely sure it's safe to plunder, will they come in and land in a high place overlooking the pond. Perhaps a chimney, or a small tree close to the pond. Herons often explore ponds in gardens during times of poor visibility, fog, at first light when their usual haunts have become difficult, for example when floods have clouded waters, or when ice has formed, the conditions for likely heron attacks can be predicted if you keep an eye on the weather forecast... When they have landed at a high vantage point overlooking the pond area, they really take their time and look with those beady little dark eyes, to make absolutely sure nothing is lurking before flapping to the best landing spot close to the pond... I say they, because it is not unusual for them to go about in pairs... Should your pond be netted they will go to some lengths to try and get within, finding or forcing any gap that they can... When they are safely well within the net, that is a good time to, errr.... ...surprise them regards, andy http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/ Checkout Koishack.com, koiphen.com, Aquascape watergardening message boards... Far and away the best moderated! |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
"adavisus" wrote in message ... After a serious heron attack, its normal for fish to go hiding for weeks, so you never know what has happened.... on a well planted pond with a lot of cover, most fish survive though you will notice the dramatic difference in their usual behaviour and wonder why. In my ponds before nets, most fish did not survive despite the waterlilies and all the other plants. Here's a few notes collected from observations and other folks experience :) 1) Predator nets.... cheaper than losing koi, downside, local animals can get trapped in it, snared. Not very pleasant explaining to your neighbor why their pedigree cat or dog lost its life or leg through strangulation. Predator nets are probably the most cost effective barrier method, a large mesh of around 4" should allow most varieties of plants to grow through it without tangling the mesh. Smaller meshes tend to be a mess with plants, strangled pets, and dead frogs by the time Spring arrives... People should keep their pets at home where they belong. People who care about their pets don't allow them to run loose. If the net is properly attached they shouldn't tangle in it - unless it's a large heavy dog. 2) Barrier method.... Suspend strong fish line taut, at a height of 12" over and around the pond, herons hate trip wires. An elegantly simple way to baffle a dim fishbag on stilts, it often works, many folk have reported seeing herons 'baffled' this way.... a near invisible line that they can't see, bump into, cannot step over without tripping, is enough to stop them.... I guess herons have yet to master the skill to sneak along the ground without the use of their long leggedy stilts... This doesn't work with the smaller herons at all. I saw GBs simply step over fishing line as they step over branches of a downed tree. And fishline is a danger to people who don't see it and are tripped. You're then looking at a possible law suit or perhaps a broken wrist or ankle. 3) Hiding places... Step up cover within the pond... water lilies.... big bits of pipe, float large sheets of black polythene (trash bags will do) trippy stuff for tangling up predators... hiding places for fish. Surprisingly, many black plastic objects, when submersed become virtually invisible, in a natural setting, so the idea of this clutter in pond is not as bad as it sounds. This didn't work for us. I like this method, it creates a lot of hiding places and is virtually invisible to the usually attractive pond setting, it makes it very difficult for the likes of persistent herons and raccoons when they raid.... useful in winter when foliage is bare and fish want somewhere quiet, to hibernate. Bare crystal clear ponds must be an easy target for predators, the garish and brightly coloured fish must just shout loud and clear, 'sushi bar' to every itinerant fish eating scoundrel passing within sight overhead. Herons will find fish in a heavily planted pond as well as one without plants. 4) Pond design... When you make a pond, make 45° sides, herons have gangly legs, they like 'easy walking' conditions, they hate 'trippy' pond surroundings... The one common weakness of predatory birds is the vulnerability of their gangly long legs, they absolutely rely on an easy landing place, and an easy stroll into the pond, handy shallow terraces are a big help.... Some herons have short legs. Kingfishers don't bother to land at all. 5) Trapping... I can't be so fiendish, I cant advise you put out snares... a simple loop of fish line can lock onto a predators leg. Nasty way to die, that Illegal in the USA. Brevity snips -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
adavisus wrote:
ahah, someone mentioned herons, this can summon 'the heron file' compiled from various ponders experience, over the years.... A lot of very interesting ideas in here.....thanks for posting.....I guess that the best bet is a combination of whatever suits your environment and that is all we can do......with certain solutions there are definitely inherent dangers to other creatures which most of us would shy away from and also certain legalities and also squeamishness involved with adopting others.....afterall herons have a right to exist as well and personally I find them magnificent birds......don't want them to eat my fish but don't think I have a right to demand their destruction because they pick on an easy feeding option - same goes for Kingfishers - beautiful, stunning birds..... I don't know how my new pond will cope with the resident heron but all I can say is netting is not an option so the most I can do is a natural cover solution...... You missed out water sprays, pets (such as dogs and cats) acting as a deterant.....my dog won't even allow pigeons in the garden without kicking up merry hell......and we get a lot of wood pigeons over the back in the wooded area.....not seen him take on one of the resident red kites yet.....but as they can take prey as big as lambs I would prefer him not to...... Gill |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:52:11 CST, Gill Passman
wrote: Kingfishers - beautiful, stunning birds..... If Kingfishers are a problem in your area, prior to putting fish in get a few little orange (plastic) fish called heron scarers: Okay, you better-googlers-than-I help me find what use to be called The Heron Scarer. It is a skinny orange fish about 5" long that sold for around $3, so getting several was no hardship for most. I kept a school in my lily pond prior to the fish going out and I can only assume that has kept the fish kingfisher free. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
"~ jan" wrote in message ... On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:52:11 CST, Gill Passman wrote: Kingfishers - beautiful, stunning birds..... If Kingfishers are a problem in your area, prior to putting fish in get a few little orange (plastic) fish called heron scarers: I still have the two I bought in Atlanta. It did nothing to discourage them. The rubber fish was apparently pulled from their grasp (found one on the lawn twice) and they simply came back and got another fish - a real one the next time. Okay, you better-googlers-than-I help me find what use to be called The Heron Scarer. It is a skinny orange fish about 5" long that sold for around $3, so getting several was no hardship for most. I kept a school in my lily pond prior to the fish going out and I can only assume that has kept the fish kingfisher free. ~ jan We apparently have smarter Kingfisher in TN. They soon learn the difference between a rubber fish and a real one just as crows learn the difference between a real human and a realistic scarecrow - even when the scarecrow is moved around the garden. -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
~ jan wrote:
If Kingfishers are a problem in your area, prior to putting fish in get a few little orange (plastic) fish called heron scarers: Okay, you better-googlers-than-I help me find what use to be called The Heron Scarer. It is a skinny orange fish about 5" long that sold for around $3, so getting several was no hardship for most. I kept a school in my lily pond prior to the fish going out and I can only assume that has kept the fish kingfisher free. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us It has been a while since I've seen a kingfisher in my garden but it is 7 years since I had the original pond.....he wasn't a problem...... I do recall, where I used to work, they had a massive lake and you would always see the herons and kingfishers at their work in the distance.....these were what are termed "coarse fish" kept in there.....one of the most amazing sights was the small stream on the border.....it backed onto woods...the front was a 4 foot fence.....a double track road and then a motorway with all the associated noise and traffic...this was also known as the smokers alley...the herons and kingfishers used to perch on the fence and then dive in with a killing precision that was awesome to watch.....we got quite fond of the fish though........ My local heron sits on the roof of the house across the road.....they have a pond.....the house 4 doors down also has a pond.......I have a dog that won't tolerate foreign cats or pigeons in the garden......maybe there is some hope in that :-) If the cat doesn't get him the dog will sure have a go.... Gill |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:12:59 CST, "Reel McKoi"
wrote: We apparently have smarter Kingfisher in TN. Apparently, but I did mention, use the fake fish prior to a problem, just like the motion sprinklers and all the other things other than nets. Prevention is better than the cure. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
"~ jan" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:12:59 CST, "Reel McKoi" wrote: We apparently have smarter Kingfisher in TN. Apparently, but I did mention, use the fake fish prior to a problem, There was no reason to use a fake fish prior to the problem. We didn't even know we had Kingfishers here or that herons would come right up to the houses. After a few attempts at the fake fish, they quickly learned to ignore it. just like the motion sprinklers and all the other things other than nets. Prevention is better than the cure. ~ jan You can't know what to prevent until it shows up at your pond. I had never seen Kingfishers here until the ponds were put in. -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
You can't know what to prevent until it shows up at your pond. I had never
seen Kingfishers here until the ponds were put in. RM People can if they do a little research in their area before putting fish in... assuming they'll take the advice. I didn't know either bird would come into a backyard pond either, until I was informed by the pond club I joined before I even finished the pond. I'm sorry only nets work for you, Carol, but I don't see the need to keep knocking what others have found success with that doesn't involve a net. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
"~ jan" wrote in message ... You can't know what to prevent until it shows up at your pond. I had never seen Kingfishers here until the ponds were put in. RM People can if they do a little research in their area before putting fish in... assuming they'll take the advice. Today that may be possible, back in 1995 when I put my first two ponds in I didn't have a computer and few people around me here had ponds. I was the first on this road to put one in. All I had was a two books that made light of fish predation. I didn't know either bird would come into a backyard pond either, until I was informed by the pond club I joined before I even finished the pond. That's great. The nearest pond club I later found out about was in Nashville. We were members for a brief time after losing endless numbers of koi and Shubunkins. Others were netting their ponds with excellent results. So after the sulfur and the fish-line and the fake fish, etc. etc. etc. didn't prevent the losses, we bought nets. They were the last choice but work 100%. They also keep out the neighborhood dogs, raccoons and whatever else was out there in the night picking off my koi and GF. You're very fortunate to only have herons and Kingfishers. Many of us also have snapper turtles, water snakes, huge bullfrogs and other predators. I'm sorry only nets work for you, Carol, but I don't see the need to keep knocking what others have found success with that doesn't involve a net. I'm not knocking it Jan. But some of the posts here make those motion sprayers and fake fish sound like they'll work as well as or better than nets - and that just isn't true. I don't want people to think they're fish are safe because they installed a MS and a few rubber fish. -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
I'm not knocking it Jan.
Sorry, but yes you are, and you have reasons. But some of the posts here make those motion sprayers and fake fish sound like they'll work as well as or better than nets - and that just isn't true. I haven't seen one post that claims they work better than a net. But many people have mentioned that nets won't work because of the design of the pond and/or they'd just as soon fill it in if they have to put a net on it. Many of us have found success with alternatives and don't have all the various problems TN seems to have. I don't want people to think they're fish are safe because they installed a MS and a few rubber fish. I wonder if we're taking about the same type of fish, mine are plastic not rubber. Were yours submerged or floating on top? ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
Along with the stated reasons not to use nets I
have a real concern with my two labradors. I think netting my pond would be a real danger. They like to drink out of the pond and the worry would be if one fell in or was pushed in while playing. No fish is worth the lives of my dogs. I also have concerns with birds and squirrels getting caught in the nets. Nets just don't work for all ponders. We have to offer other alternatives. I don't have a problem with herons and kingfishers, they visit from time to time, but I use the heron scarer, I have fishy condos, tree cover, plant cover and dog patrols. None of my birdy visitors have cleaned out the pond. I put my bird losses at about 4 fish max over ten years. Anyway that's the nice thing about newsgroups, we can offer all sorts of different options for flummoxed ponders. k :-) |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
"~ jan" wrote in message ... I'm not knocking it Jan. Sorry, but yes you are, and you have reasons. But some of the posts here make those motion sprayers and fake fish sound like they'll work as well as or better than nets - and that just isn't true. I haven't seen one post that claims they work better than a net. But many people have mentioned that nets won't work because of the design of the pond and/or they'd just as soon fill it in if they have to put a net on it. The "suggestion" is they are as effective as a net. And yes, I know nets wont work on all ponds. That's a given considering the shapes and sizes and waterfalls etc. No need to fill a pond in if sprayers and rubber fish (not real attractive either) fail. All they need do is give up keeping fish. Ponds are beautiful even without fish. Many of us have found success with alternatives and don't have all the various problems TN seems to have. I don't want people to think they're fish are safe because they installed a MS and a few rubber fish. I wonder if we're taking about the same type of fish, mine are plastic not rubber. Were yours submerged or floating on top? ~ jan Mine are rubbery and lifelike. You can allow them to float or keep them down with a string and weight. I had one weighted down just under the surface and the other was at the top. The one on the top was the one they'd go for. Maybe because of the color. That I can't say. After a few failures, the birds went for the real thing and ignored the fakes. -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:33:19 CST, "Reel McKoi"
wrote: The "suggestion" is they are as effective as a net. I think then you may be reading too much between the lines, and not what is truly there. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
The heron file. A perrenial problem (Part one)
I have never had any small animal/bird get caught in my nets. true, they are taut. I
have had a couple birds "walk in" under the net and couldnt find their way out. ... typical.. a morning dove. Ingrid On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:32:01 CST, kathy wrote: Along with the stated reasons not to use nets I have a real concern with my two labradors. I think netting my pond would be a real danger. They like to drink out of the pond and the worry would be if one fell in or was pushed in while playing. No fish is worth the lives of my dogs. I also have concerns with birds and squirrels getting caught in the nets. |
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