I posted a new picture of the damaged fish:
http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html

The left side of the fish now appears to have healed. The blood by the
right eye is also gone, and the damaged area on the right gill looks
much better. The upper-right-center area continues to show a lot of
damage. Looking at the old and new pictures, does that area appear to
be healing OK on its own?

The fish is active again today.

Thanks for the feedback on my microscope observations & the links.

Dave

I bumped the salt up to .2%. I'm concerned about a bacterial infection
or parasites camping out in the remaining area that's visible in the
latest picture. It looks like the fish may be down to the flesh
there... Even if I'm going to leave the fish in the pond, should I
maybe take it out and dip it? If so, how long and what strength?

Dave

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:43:30 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote:

I bumped the salt up to .2%. I'm concerned about a bacterial infection
or parasites camping out in the remaining area that's visible in the
latest picture. It looks like the fish may be down to the flesh
there... Even if I'm going to leave the fish in the pond, should I
maybe take it out and dip it? If so, how long and what strength?

Dave

Don't dip. Area appears to be healing, you do not want to strip the scab
off. If it changes, looks worst, post another picture. My biggest concern
would be the males damaging that same spot again, as it is in a tender
state at the moment. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Ok, I'll leave it be. It just looks so bad. The fish is eating more
aggressively now.

I'm posting new images. The brown area has spread and there appears to
be loose skin around it. It looks worse to me.

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html

The 4/14/08 images are the new ones. You can zoom in on them, although
they were taken late in the day and are a bit grainy.

The fish is continuing to eat well and is no longer lethargic.

Some Medicarp arrived at the end of the day today and I started
feeding it that.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I'm still thinking the fish is healing.... but I've posted your website at
the KHA bulletin board and will let you know what the more experience
people say, if any intervention is necessary. ~ jan



On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:03:40 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote:

I'm posting new images. The brown area has spread and there appears to
be loose skin around it. It looks worse to me.

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html

The 4/14/08 images are the new ones. You can zoom in on them, although
they were taken late in the day and are a bit grainy.

The fish is continuing to eat well and is no longer lethargic.

Some Medicarp arrived at the end of the day today and I started
feeding it that.

Dave
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

I'm still thinking the fish is healing.... but I've posted your website at

the KHA bulletin board and will let you know what the more experience
people say, if any intervention is necessary. ~ jan

Thanks for doing that. It does seem to be *acting* healthy. If it
didn't have that painful looking wound, I'd think there was nothing
wrong with it. Maybe the loose "skin" I see is just damaged tissue
that's being replaced. I'm not sure.

it could be loose slime coat too, altho skin sloughing is possible. Ingrid

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:30:37 EDT, Pond Addict wrote:

I'm still thinking the fish is healing.... but I've posted your website at

the KHA bulletin board and will let you know what the more experience
people say, if any intervention is necessary. ~ jan

Thanks for doing that. It does seem to be *acting* healthy. If it
didn't have that painful looking wound, I'd think there was nothing
wrong with it. Maybe the loose "skin" I see is just damaged tissue
that's being replaced. I'm not sure.

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:30:37 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote:

I'm still thinking the fish is healing.... but I've posted your website at

the KHA bulletin board and will let you know what the more experience
people say, if any intervention is necessary. ~ jan

Thanks for doing that. It does seem to be *acting* healthy. If it
didn't have that painful looking wound, I'd think there was nothing
wrong with it. Maybe the loose "skin" I see is just damaged tissue
that's being replaced. I'm not sure.

One very experienced KHA has replied so far, he says it could be healing.
His only suggestion would be to pull any loose scales and use iodine... but
you could be okay to just wait. If the fish has an infection you should see
veining in the fins, and even throughout the body, in 2-3 days. I'm
thinking as long as this has gone on, you may already be pass the 2 day
limit. So hanging in there may be best for the fish in the long run. Do
keep salt in the water as any open sore like that makes the kidneys work
very hard, salt helps. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

I noticed a definite change today. It looks like there's a split in
that bad area, but I'm having trouble getting a good look, or a
picture of it. I'll post one as soon as I have it.

I checked and the salt is at .28% which is a little higher than I'd
planned, but just as well.

Dave

Ok, the picture is up there now:

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html

The 4/17/08 images are new. It's actually only one image, followed by
a close-up of the damaged area from that image. It was really hard to
get *any* pictures of this fish today, thus the poor quality.

Observations: The wounded area is lighter than it has been and has
rips in what was previously the "loose skin." Pink "flesh" is visible
past the rips. Also, some algae has transferred to the area that's
tearing off. The fish still behaves normally.

Thanks,

Dave

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:04:07 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote:

Ok, the picture is up there now:

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html

The 4/17/08 images are new. It's actually only one image, followed by
a close-up of the damaged area from that image. It was really hard to
get *any* pictures of this fish today, thus the poor quality.

Observations: The wounded area is lighter than it has been and has
rips in what was previously the "loose skin." Pink "flesh" is visible
past the rips. Also, some algae has transferred to the area that's
tearing off. The fish still behaves normally.
Thanks,
Dave

It looks like the area has been re-injured. I'm thinking you're going to
have to catch this fish, do a salt dip, put it in aquarium with salt at
0.3% and order some Tricide-Neo. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:11:27 EDT, ~ jan wrote:

Dave, have you been able to catch fish?

I've gotten more answers and most agree that what the fish has over the
wound now is bad stuff and needs to be removed.

They suggest scrubbing the wound with Malachite Green or at least hydrogen
peroxide. Then sealing the wound with denture adhesive, or there is a
product out there called Bio Bandage for fish.

Do bring fish in, salt 0.3%, warm up to 78F after salt dip. Do you have
info for salt dip? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Thanks for the info, Jan.

I was away, so I haven't caught the fish yet. But, the Tricide-Neo
arrived today. Should I still use that and if so, is that in place of
the salt dip?

I have the .3% water ready for the fish... when I catch it.

My salt dip info in my Koi Health & Disease book says 50 Tablespoons
to 5 Gal. for a max 7-10 min unless the fish is stressing/flipping
over, then move to quarantine, and repeat every 12 hours for 3 dips
total. Is that what you were thinking?

I'm hoping to catch the fish today using the "bird netting" method Joe
mentioned. I think that's the only way I'll ever get it.

The algae on the wound is gone, and the area is a lighter orange now.
The fish is still eating and active.

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:26:29 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote:

I was away, so I haven't caught the fish yet. But, the Tricide-Neo
arrived today. Should I still use that and if so, is that in place of
the salt dip?

Salt dip first, put in aquarium, let it rest a bit. Then clean wound with
H2O2 and use the Tricide-Neo following the directions. You'll need DI
water. I found it easier to make the gallon amount, and have DI water on
hand to rinse fish before and after.

My salt dip info in my Koi Health & Disease book says 50 Tablespoons
to 5 Gal. for a max 7-10 min unless the fish is stressing/flipping
over, then move to quarantine, and repeat every 12 hours for 3 dips
total. Is that what you were thinking?

3% is the amount you're shooting for, usually 5 minutes max. 1 time, to get
any parasites off the fish.

Just went back and look for new info. Recommendation is to scrub the wound
with a salt paste and then rinse with saline. That's if what it has is a
fungus growing on the wound. IMhO, you still need to salt dip, clean wound,
and use the Tricide-Neo. I'm betting that will do the trick, especially
since fish is acting so healthy otherwise.

Keep me posted. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us