On Tue, 13 May 2008 17:30:54 EDT, wrote:

I've been offline for the long weekend, but I've been busy.. I'm now
the proud owner of:

1x Shubunkin
1x Sarassa
0x grid

1x almost empty pond :-)Frank

Cool. You may have to order wakins, but they're well worth it. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

wrote:
Hi,

I've been offline for the long weekend, but I've been busy.. I'm now
the proud owner of:

1x Shubunkin
1x Sarassa
0x grid

1x almost empty pond :-)

Both fish are busy hiding away under the stepping stones, but are
otherwise quite happy.

I know what you mean about the pond still looking empty - lol. I now
have 16 small Shubunkins and 6 Golden Orfes and still need to look
closely to see any fish....the Orfes have done a good job of getting the
Shubunkins out a bit more but I still look at the pond sometimes and it
looks totally empty of fish....




In the end, a goldfish-only pond might not be such a bad idea. After
years of caring for "problem" fish such as African rift-lake cichilds
and Discus, it might be quite relaxing to just look at a few dozen
healthy, trouble-free fish without worrying too much about falling PH,
nitrate levels, etc..

I know what you mean about not having to worry too much about
continuously monitoring the water quality - my rift-lake cichlids are
fine as my water suits them perfectly but the reef tanks are a
challenge....I had planned to set up a Discus tank but in the end
decided with all the other fish projects it would be one bit of work too
much so the tank is a tetra tank with bolivian rams for a bit of cichlid
interest....

I'm not convinced that the pond is going to be entirely trouble free but
one great thing I've found with mine is that fish are pretty
self-sufficient for food at the moment, but then mine did run for around
8 months with nothing in it but plants...

Gill


Thanks again for everybody's help.

Best regards,

Frank

the minute I step close to the pond I have the swarm in the corner begging for food.
Ingrid

On Sat, 17 May 2008 09:30:38 EDT, Gill Passman wrote:
I know what you mean about the pond still looking empty - lol. I now
have 16 small Shubunkins and 6 Golden Orfes and still need to look
closely to see any fish....the Orfes have done a good job of getting the
Shubunkins out a bit more but I still look at the pond sometimes and it
looks totally empty of fish....

wrote:
the minute I step close to the pond I have the swarm in the corner begging for food.
Ingrid

So, I take it from this that my fish aren't hungry enough yet to
appreciate additional feed from a human source.....personally, I would
prefer the fish to get the majority of their food naturally but I guess
it depends on the fish that you are keeping and the environment that you
want to create.....My dream is a natural pond that I just need to
supplement sometimes with artificial food but the majority of the food
comes from what they find grubbing around.....

Gill

The fish have acclimatized properly and now swim around quite happily
in the open. They are still quite shy but they do take their food once
I step away.

I don't think they'll be properly settled until there's a lot more of
them in there, but it's a good start.

I went to another gardening center and they had some gorgeous
goldfish..

The all natural habit idea is nice, but not at all what we went for
with the garden.. perhaps when we redo it in 20 years time :-)

All the best for your project Gill!

I went to another gardening center and they had some gorgeous
goldfish..

I suspect they won't really care a lot if there are many or few. In
the wild, they don't school very much.

Jim

On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:02:22 EDT, wrote:

The fish have acclimatized properly and now swim around quite happily
in the open. They are still quite shy but they do take their food once
I step away.

I don't think they'll be properly settled until there's a lot more of
them in there, but it's a good start.

I've noticed the goldfish in my small pond dart away and wait until
after I leave to eat, but lately I've been battling string algae and
it required that I vacuum and remove the bottom drain screen on the
hot tub pond and the small goldfish gather near me whenever I work on
the pond. They seem to realize that you aren't going to eat them
after you've had part of you in the water with them a few times and
get a lot more friendly.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

I suspect they won't really care a lot if there are many or few. In
the wild, they don't school very much.
Jim

Goldfish in the wild? Or wild carp in general? :-)

I know my wakins school, the 4 of them are always in pretty close proximity
to each other.... now the fantails, they go off and do their own thing.
Probably because they know they can't keep up, so why try? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

I was thinking carp in the wild. I have not seen goldfish in the
wild...I am very open to hearing that they are schoolers in the wild.
In our pond, they do not seem to school, although sometimes a couple
will swim in parallel for a bit.

The only time I put one in the 'wild' (1969, before I realized the
problems of introducing exotics) it was eaten by ducks before it could
get out of the 60 yd shallows. Talk about heartbreak! Raised it 3
years through graduate school. Turned it into a large cemetery pond
where it could thrive...but it lasted maybe 1 minute. As soon as I
put it in, the ducks began heading for me (to eat duck food?). On the
way, they saw the gold flash and began chasing my naive fish. I
yelled and threw rocks...to no avail. I can still remember the duck
head going down and coming up with an 8" struggling fish! It shook
around until it could get it to slide down. Had I gun, then, the duck
would certainly have been a target. I felt terrible that my
liberation was to sudden death.

From the ecological perspective, the pond did not have run off, so the
fish would probably not have generated wild goldies in pennsylvania
waters...but that option was certainly eliminated quickly.

Jim

correct. I designed and built a pond for koi. everything else is secondary to
providing best healthy conditions for them. Ingrid

On Sat, 17 May 2008 21:02:06 EDT, Gill Passman wrote:

wrote:
the minute I step close to the pond I have the swarm in the corner begging for food.
Ingrid

So, I take it from this that my fish aren't hungry enough yet to
appreciate additional feed from a human source.....personally, I would
prefer the fish to get the majority of their food naturally but I guess
it depends on the fish that you are keeping and the environment that you
want to create.....My dream is a natural pond that I just need to
supplement sometimes with artificial food but the majority of the food
comes from what they find grubbing around.....

Gill

On Wed, 21 May 2008 10:09:12 EDT, Phyllis and Jim
wrote:

I was thinking carp in the wild.

I grew up in Moses Lake, WA, and it is full of carp. Unfortunately the lake
is too murky to really watch the carp. There is one area where it is clear,
where a natural stream enters and the carp were just swimming around.
Similar to what I've seen in a koi pond, the large koi are swimming around
looking for treats in the algae, but baby koi will school.

The only time I put one in the 'wild' (1969, before I realized the
problems of introducing exotics) it was eaten by ducks before it could
get out of the 60 yd shallows. Talk about heartbreak!

I can imagine. I turned several tree frogs loose in the D.pond, and was
surprised when one of the goldfish tried to suck one of them down. About
took my breath away. Thankfully the frog was able to use it's other foot to
pull loose and get away.

My koi, who could easily suck down a frog don't even give chase. Course I
did have someone mentioned that pets pick up the nature of the owner, as in
being mellow. My fish take one look at a frog or grasshopper in the pond
and go, "Looks like too much work, I'll wait till the pellets are tossed
in, they don't put up a fight." ;-) Why it surprised me to see a goldfish,
not much bigger than the frog try to eat it. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

This is a very late reply but I so want to put my 2 cents in. When I first
put my pond in well over a decade ago (but not 17 years ago since that is as
long as I have been here), I put some feeder fish in from the local pet
store just to keep the mosquito population down. I had about 50% die off
but was not heartbroken about it since the poor things were meant to live
only a week or so anyway (being intended as someone's dinner). Once my pond
was established I went out and got the koi of my dreams. Beautiful
butterfly in yellow, platinum and orange/gold. I bought them as little 2
inchers and they within a couple of years were incredibly long and graceful.
I enjoyed them for some time but then tragedy struck. I went on a trip,
leaving my son in charge of the pond. He did not notice that the hose had
been pulled out of the pond and the water was pumped out to a depth of 6
inches. Needless to say in the heat of August my 3 koi were fried. A
remarkable number of my goldfish though survived. I never replaced those
koi and probably never will. Every year I have another favorite in the pack
of goldfish that I watch and admire. This year I have an intense red and
white beauty with a tail twice as long as her body. She is probably 9
inches long. Coming up in the babies is one that is truly bizarre looking -
he looks like a black and gold tiger. I know he won't stay that way for
long so I enjoy him while he is what he is (kinda like children). I never
know who will be around next year but there are always survivors. When the
kingfisher or heron stops by for lunch I don't run and get the shotgun but
instead enjoy their beauty as well. Every once in awhile I think of the
beautiful koi I once had but for me they are just not worth the worry. My
goldfish thrive on benign neglect, keep our yard mosquito free and give the
pleasure of a beautiful thing to watch. I also enjoy my little mosquito
fish in the smaller pond by the back door. Nothing spectacular, they just
come in gold or black but they swim in schools as babies, dart about
frantically and add life to the pond.

Donna

P.S. Please post how things go.

I started my pond with feeder fish. Over the years the hardy have survived
and reproduced giving every kind of goldfish imaginable. The colors range
from gold - orange - Chinese red - black - white and mixtures of those
colors. I just assumed those feeder fish were common comet. Apparently
not.
Donna

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 May 2008 08:30:56 EDT, wrote:

First question: Substrate or no Substrate?

No substrate. It will soon be covered in algae and crud.

Goldfish, look at wakins, shubunkins & sarassas, rather than just the
common comet. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 17:29:46 EDT, "D Kat"
wrote:

I started my pond with feeder fish. Over the years the hardy have survived
and reproduced giving every kind of goldfish imaginable. The colors range
from gold - orange - Chinese red - black - white and mixtures of those
colors. I just assumed those feeder fish were common comet. Apparently
not.

I had a similar experience with shubunkin. Apparently they retain the
genes of all their ancestors and uncontrolled breeding allows many
colors to appear. I once read that it is a practice of some breeders
to milk the fish of their eggs and sperm and mix manually, so there is
no chance of multiple parents in a batch of fry.

I don't have room for such controlled conditions, even if I knew what
I was doing, so I've made the adjustment to enjoy whatever appears in
my pond. On that note I have a most interesting "trash" fish that has
reverted to solid color like the original wild carp, except she (I
think), has blue in the color as well as the dark back, viewed from
above. Since last July when I moved her to the hot tub pond,
it has been a very timid fish until the past few days and she has
begun to dart from just below the lily pads and grab a bit of food
while I stand watching instead of waiting until I leave. I hope you
enjoy your many colors too.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

I do enjoy it all. Thank you. One of my biggest surprises were some black
gold fish that turned orange when they were quite old - they were probably 6
inches (body not tail) by the time they changed. There is one now that I
would like to catch and separate into the smaller pond just so I could watch
the color change more carefully. He is more blue than black and has hints
of vertical gold stripes. The oddest color I have ever seen. Donna

"Hal" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 17:29:46 EDT, "D Kat"
wrote:

I started my pond with feeder fish. Over the years the hardy have
survived
and reproduced giving every kind of goldfish imaginable. The colors range
from gold - orange - Chinese red - black - white and mixtures of those
colors. I just assumed those feeder fish were common comet. Apparently
not.

I had a similar experience with shubunkin. Apparently they retain the
genes of all their ancestors and uncontrolled breeding allows many
colors to appear. I once read that it is a practice of some breeders
to milk the fish of their eggs and sperm and mix manually, so there is
no chance of multiple parents in a batch of fry.

I don't have room for such controlled conditions, even if I knew what
I was doing, so I've made the adjustment to enjoy whatever appears in
my pond. On that note I have a most interesting "trash" fish that has
reverted to solid color like the original wild carp, except she (I
think), has blue in the color as well as the dark back, viewed from
above. Since last July when I moved her to the hot tub pond,
it has been a very timid fish until the past few days and she has
begun to dart from just below the lily pads and grab a bit of food
while I stand watching instead of waiting until I leave. I hope you
enjoy your many colors too.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb