Just found this news group today and have read through all posts. Seems like
a lot of great ideas and help abound in this space. Hope I am not butting
into private conversations. Let me know if "butt out" is appropriate.

I'm Ray and with my wife Kath and children built a pond last year. My guess
is that it is about 2500 gals. It has a large rock border that rests on a
shelf about 2 inches under water and a plant shelf about 12 inches under
water. We wanted the bottom to be a haven for insect life and fish eggs and
whatever else could bring ecolological balance to the pond so I've lined the
bottom with river rock taken out of the ground when digging the hole. I have
a two foot high waterfall that splashes down two levels (my attempt at
aeration) and contains a biological filter that I have been carfeul to
"feed" (with MicrobeLift products) and not disturb. I have started some
lilies but have a fairly good growth of water hyacinth and I think something
called parrot fern.

I don't have a personal album online but could post a pic or two if someone
would like to suggest the easiest place to access.

I feel like I'm in an AA meeting when I confess that I couldn't wait to get
fish into the pond and had purchased several very small (1") goldfish and
some small (3") goldfish the second or third week after we'd filled it. They
survived the winter easily (we're located in Rancho Cordova,California) and
are still doing fine though now they're more like 5"- 7". Didn't know much
(still don't really) about the care and feeding of ponds and fish so fed
them all winter. Sometime in spring a friend of my son moved and gave us 6
10"-12" koi to care for, so I likely have too many fish for the pond size I
have water striders, dragonflies and damsel flies in both final and larvae
forms. The birds seem to like the free bathing as I have put in some small
beach access spots. Apart from bouts with string algae and green water, the
pond seems to be doing ok.

My biggest bother is that with our 100+ temperatures, the water goes "green"
and the bottom disappears. I see the fish at feeding time and an occasional
orange shadow beneath the surface at other times but I'd like to see more of
them. I have taken to treating the water with MicrobeLift/SA but it's rather
expensive and while it seems to block enough light to inhibit string algae,
it doesn't seem to have any effect on the green water syndrone. I can tell
from my skimmer filters that I am getting a lot of the floating algae
filtered out but obviously not enough to clear the water. All submerged
rocks are covered with this algae.A local pond store suggests a UV light
system. Has anyone experience with these kinds of systems? They're a little
dear but if they work against the green water I would consider it.

I was also wondering if anyone knew the range of temperaturees that I should
try to keep the pond within. The water feels warm to my hand and I just feel
that can't be beneficial to the fish. We've been shading the water with
umbrellas because we're a new housing development and trees are not big
enough to do so yet. Would it be OK to cool the water down somehow?

Thanks in advance for any replies and advice.

Welcome!!! Your pond sounds absolutely beautiful and yes pictures would be
appreciated. www.flickr.com is an easy site to post pictures.

We have some very good fish experts in here and people from your area (the
sets are overlapping). My one bit of advice is don't over feed the fish. I
started my pond with feeder fish just to keep the mosquitoes down (or so I
told myself). They (or their offspring) are still with me well over a
decade later. I don't feed them at all in the winter and very little the
rest of the year. Your koi though will want food. We just had a long
thread on the best food for koi which should still be available to read.

Veggie filters are the best things for keeping the green fog away. There
are any number of ways you can add that to your pond. If your current
biofilter cannot handle the load with the koi, Jan has a wonderful bio
filter that I think is ideal for koi. http://www.jjspond.us:80/ and I
believe it also serves as a veggie filter. I know her pond looks crystal
clear (and is one of my favorites).

I am a really lazy ponder - everything I do is to make my pond and garden as
work free as possible. However I work on a far smaller scale than you so
my way of doing things would not work for you.

Look forward to the pictures! Donna

"RVentura" wrote in message
...
I'm Ray and with my wife Kath and children built a pond last year. My
guess is that it is about 2500 gals. It has a large rock border that rests
on a shelf about 2 inches under water and a plant shelf about 12 inches
under water. We wanted the bottom to be a haven for insect life and fish
eggs and whatever else could bring ecolological balance to the pond so
I've lined the bottom with river rock taken out of the ground when digging
the hole. I have a two foot high waterfall that splashes down two levels
(my attempt at aeration) and contains a biological filter that I have been
carfeul to "feed" (with MicrobeLift products) and not disturb. I have
started some lilies but have a fairly good growth of water hyacinth and I
think something called parrot fern.

I don't have a personal album online but could post a pic or two if
someone would like to suggest the easiest place to access.

I feel like I'm in an AA meeting when I confess that I couldn't wait to
get fish into the pond and had purchased several very small (1") goldfish
and some small (3") goldfish the second or third week after we'd filled
it. They survived the winter easily (we're located in Rancho
Cordova,California) and are still doing fine though now they're more like
5"- 7". Didn't know much (still don't really) about the care and feeding
of ponds and fish so fed them all winter. Sometime in spring a friend of
my son moved and gave us 6 10"-12" koi to care for, so I likely have too
many fish for the pond size I have water striders, dragonflies and damsel
flies in both final and larvae forms. The birds seem to like the free
bathing as I have put in some small beach access spots. Apart from bouts
with string algae and green water, the pond seems to be doing ok.

My biggest bother is that with our 100+ temperatures, the water goes
"green" and the bottom disappears. I see the fish at feeding time and an
occasional orange shadow beneath the surface at other times but I'd like
to see more of them. I have taken to treating the water with
MicrobeLift/SA but it's rather expensive and while it seems to block
enough light to inhibit string algae, it doesn't seem to have any effect
on the green water syndrone. I can tell from my skimmer filters that I am
getting a lot of the floating algae filtered out but obviously not enough
to clear the water. All submerged rocks are covered with this algae.A
local pond store suggests a UV light system. Has anyone experience with
these kinds of systems? They're a little dear but if they work against the
green water I would consider it.

I was also wondering if anyone knew the range of temperaturees that I
should try to keep the pond within. The water feels warm to my hand and I
just feel that can't be beneficial to the fish. We've been shading the
water with umbrellas because we're a new housing development and trees are
not big enough to do so yet. Would it be OK to cool the water down
somehow?

Thanks in advance for any replies and advice.

"RVentura" wrote in message
...
Just found this news group today and have read through all posts. Seems
like a lot of great ideas and help abound in this space. Hope I am not
butting into private conversations. Let me know if "butt out" is
appropriate.

I'm Ray and with my wife Kath and children built a pond last year. My
guess is that it is about 2500 gals. It has a large rock border that rests
on a shelf about 2 inches under water and a plant shelf about 12 inches
under water. We wanted the bottom to be a haven for insect life and fish
eggs and whatever else could bring ecolological balance to the pond so
I've lined the bottom with river rock taken out of the ground when digging
the hole. I have a two foot high waterfall that splashes down two levels
(my attempt at aeration) and contains a biological filter that I have been
carfeul to "feed" (with MicrobeLift products) and not disturb. I have
started some lilies but have a fairly good growth of water hyacinth and I
think something called parrot fern.

I don't have a personal album online but could post a pic or two if
someone would like to suggest the easiest place to access.

I feel like I'm in an AA meeting when I confess that I couldn't wait to
get fish into the pond and had purchased several very small (1") goldfish
and some small (3") goldfish the second or third week after we'd filled
it. They survived the winter easily (we're located in Rancho
Cordova,California) and are still doing fine though now they're more like
5"- 7". Didn't know much (still don't really) about the care and feeding
of ponds and fish so fed them all winter. Sometime in spring a friend of
my son moved and gave us 6 10"-12" koi to care for, so I likely have too
many fish for the pond size I have water striders, dragonflies and damsel
flies in both final and larvae forms. The birds seem to like the free
bathing as I have put in some small beach access spots. Apart from bouts
with string algae and green water, the pond seems to be doing ok.

My biggest bother is that with our 100+ temperatures, the water goes
"green" and the bottom disappears. I see the fish at feeding time and an
occasional orange shadow beneath the surface at other times but I'd like
to see more of them. I have taken to treating the water with
MicrobeLift/SA but it's rather expensive and while it seems to block
enough light to inhibit string algae, it doesn't seem to have any effect
on the green water syndrone. I can tell from my skimmer filters that I am
getting a lot of the floating algae filtered out but obviously not enough
to clear the water. All submerged rocks are covered with this algae.A
local pond store suggests a UV light system. Has anyone experience with
these kinds of systems? They're a little dear but if they work against the
green water I would consider it.

I was also wondering if anyone knew the range of temperaturees that I
should try to keep the pond within. The water feels warm to my hand and I
just feel that can't be beneficial to the fish. We've been shading the
water with umbrellas because we're a new housing development and trees are
not big enough to do so yet. Would it be OK to cool the water down
somehow?

Thanks in advance for any replies and advice.

Welcome to the addictive world of ponding.

You state that you have a biological filter installed, but you haven't
described it. I suspect it is too small. Most of the commercial filters
say that they are rated to take care of X amount of pond, when in reality,
they would be hard pressed to take care of 1/2 X. The addition of the koi
probably overloaded the filter. Green water algae will consume ammonia
directly, so if the filter is not capable of maintaining a zero reading of
ammonia, the green water is your friend, and the friend of your fish, by
keeping the water livable. I suspect the addition of the koi overloaded the
system. Increasing the size of the filter is probably all that is needed.

You have not said anything about whether you test your pond or not. Tests
need to be run, about weekly once established, and more frequently on
startup, for ammonia, nitrite, pH (morning and evening), temperature, KH
carbonate hardness. GH general hardness and nitrates are nice to have, but
not as critical. Ammonia and nitrite should always read zero.

You didn't state whether you do any water changes or not. Water changes are
like the flushing of the toilet and need to be done about 10% per week.
That is removal of 10%, not just topping off. This will remove some of the
buildup of nitrates, some of the pheromones that limit growth, and dissolved
solids buildup.

The filter will build its own bacteria colony and does not need to be
constantly fed with bottled bugs. The bottled bugs work best on the solid
cellulose type detritus in a pond, but most of the bottled bugs are
anaerobic, which means they work best in thick layers of stuff that you
don't want in the pond in the first place. Save a $ or two.

UV lights work wonders. Be sure to buy one that has the capability to
handle the flow of your pump. They need exposure time to do the job. If
the water travels too fast, they don't work. I have seen 8W units clean
5000 gallon ponds, and 40W units not clean 3000 gallon ponds do to lack of
exposure time.

--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
Zone 7A/B Virginia

welcome to the pond group.

In a pond with a good veggie filter 20 gallons per goldfish, 100 gallons per koi.
Your goldfish will reproduce like bunnies, so I suggest finding Orfes and getting
about 5. they eat eggs and young and will keep the population under control.

The limiting factor in warm green ponds is oxygen. you need a very good aerator,
something like a small swee****er from aquatic ecosystems with 3-4 foot long glass
air stones.

to get rid of the green you need to seriously boost your filtration to get rid of the
excess wastes. a veggie filter is easiest especially in your climate. I also have
a UV light with its own itty bitty pump rather than in line of the regular pump.

get the best quality food with the most natural proteins, like krill and the least
amount of carbohydrates because GF and Koi dont digest carbs, so they are in and out
without digestion and foul the pond. then use restraint when feeding. 1/2 cup of
high quality stuff per day is more than enough for your numbers.

GF and Koi can take temps to 80 or so, but it is best to shade the pond to some
extent if there are lots of 100o days. Ingrid

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:25:34 EDT, "RVentura" wrote:
several very small (1") goldfish and
some small (3") goldfish
6 10"-12" koi to care for, so I likely have too many fish for the pond size

My biggest bother is that with our 100+ temperatures, the water goes "green"

I was also wondering if anyone knew the range of temperaturees that I should
try to keep the pond within.

While we are piling stuff on your ponding plate ---
have you thought about winter yet? :-D

Could you give us the general area where you live
and what your winters are like?

We're going to get you all set up 365 days a year.
(Note someone should talk about fall....)

k :-)

They are in the San Diego CA area and don't have anything like our winters.
Basically it is Spring and Fall. Donna
"kathy" wrote in message
...
While we are piling stuff on your ponding plate ---
have you thought about winter yet? :-D

Could you give us the general area where you live
and what your winters are like?

We're going to get you all set up 365 days a year.
(Note someone should talk about fall....)

k :-)

Went back and found it.
San Diego - loverly area :-))
(wasn't there a report that glaciers were
growing in California - you can never be
too careful!!)

k :-)

RVentura wrote:
snip

Has anyone experience with these kinds of systems? They're a little
dear but if they work against the green water I would consider it.

/snip

I have a unit that I installed my first year. I uninstalled it my second
year and have not had an algae problem. I think that has to do with the
plantings I have and also some shade.

Anyway, I still have the UV and have recently thought about selling it. I'll
have to figure out a price, but it was a big unit. Let me know if you're
interested. We don't live that far apart, I think.

San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Koi, Goldfish, and RES named Colombo.

kathy wrote in news:42f6a135-02ce-4262-b036-
:

Went back and found it.
San Diego - loverly area :-))
(wasn't there a report that glaciers were
growing in California - you can never be
too careful!!)

k :-)

The day glaciers take over San Diego is the day, well, I eat my
oldest, skankiest, smelliest hat. With sourkraut. And olives.

~~Bryan

--
************************************************** **********
* Can't see the Forest | Bryan B. *
* Through the Spam? | Reply if you want. E-mail *
* Take it out! | address changes frequently *
* (Damn Viruses!) | to foil spambots. *
************************************************** **********

That's asphalt - it grows much faster than a glacier. Every time I went
back 'home' for a visit I would say to myself "they can't possibly pave
over and build any more.... " They did. I've been out east for over 3
decades and recently discovered that gosh... this is home. Still, you can't
get a much more pleasant climate than San Diego. Most of Southern
California though is becoming a hell hole. The climate change has destroyed
the forests in the mountains; places like Rialto are intolerably hot and
smoggy; it is so overcrowded that the major freeways are completely unusable
most times of the day; and the 'cut taxes' mentality has destroyed their
school system and infra-structure. If I did not have the memory of what it
had been, I would probably think it a great place.

Donna

"kathy" wrote in message
...
Went back and found it.
San Diego - loverly area :-))
(wasn't there a report that glaciers were
growing in California - you can never be
too careful!!)

k :-)

"RVentura" wrote in message
...
Just found this news group today and have read through all posts. Seems
like a lot of great ideas and help abound in this space. Hope I am not
butting into private conversations. Let me know if "butt out" is
appropriate.
=============== [ Brevity snip]

I found that www.photobucket.com is the easiest to use of at least 10 sites
I've tried over the years.

Welcome to the group. :-)
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

RVentura wrote:
Just found this news group today and have read through all posts.
snippy

With your temps and I assume loadsa sun, I'd suggest you build some kind of
shade over the pond more than umbrellas. Yes, a UV will help tremendously.
DON'T try and cool the water. Fish are very sensitive to temp change. I
always reckon on 1 deg/hour. regular partial water changes might help, but
if your water supply has chlorine/chloromine in, use a proprietory additive
to neutralise it, and let the water your adding come up to pond temp.What
filtration do you have? Or did I miss it in your post? lol......late and I'm
tired.
--
Pete C
London UK