Here in the north Florida tundra, winter's icy breath has forced me to
do much of my gardening inside. We are struggling today with frigid
temperatures that so far have only managed to make it into the (mid)
seventies, but we'll try to get by.

Anyway, I've got about six big grow lamps and a bunch of plants, and,
as you might have guessed, a bunch of tiny bugs, mostly gnats from the
potting soil I think, others are the bugs tiny enough to get through a
window screen. I don't really have a personal problem with bugs, and
they generally leave me alone. I have a few spiders that live in the
house, some that build webs and more than a few "jumping" spiders that
patrol around in the plants. I rarely use any kind of pesticide or
bug spray, so critters don't have to worry about where they tread,
there aren't any residual "gotcha"s. But I digress... I was watching
the cluster of bugs that is attracted to the grow lamps at night and
wondered what to do about them. So I ordered this "carnivorous plant
sampler" online. It came without the ubiquitous Venus fly trap, but
had a pitcher plant, a sundew, and a butterwort. The sundew and
butterwort aren't huge plants by any means, 3-4 inches across at most,
but the butterwort has these beautiful lavender/yellow flowers and the
sundew has smaller blue ball shaped blooms and won't quit blooming!
It's been a month now, and virtually all the gnats and flies and
things have disappeared from the grow lights. You can see where they
went, the sundews and butterworts have little sticky leaves and
tendrils, that's how they "catch" bugs, and you can see little
blotches on them that once were bugs. The pitcher plants use a
different method , but they no doubt shared in the feast also. I did
a little reading and found that pitcher plants can be found in wild as
far north as Canada. I can remember finding a wild sundew in Glacier
National Park. It seems that sundews and pitcher plants can handle
cold (really cold) weather rather well.

Being as how these are mostly bog-type plants, and that many of us
have ponds that attract (among other things) bugs, don't these plants
seem like naturals? Has anyone tried a bunch of these planted around
their pond? They don't seem to need much care other than to keep them
wet, which doesn't seem all that hard in a pond setting. Am I missing
a real big drawback to them?

Galen Hekhuis wrote:
Being as how these are mostly bog-type plants, and that many of us
have ponds that attract (among other things) bugs, don't these plants
seem like naturals? Has anyone tried a bunch of these planted around
their pond? They don't seem to need much care other than to keep them
wet, which doesn't seem all that hard in a pond setting. Am I missing
a real big drawback to them?

Ponds are not very boggy though. Those kind of plants evolved to grow in
a very niche environment. Bogs are typically acidic and contain
extremely low levels of dissolved nutrients and minerals, hence the
requirement to catch insects for their mineral content. Ponds tend to be
alkaline and packed full of the nutrients and fertilisers that will kill
a bog plant pretty quickly. The water in my part of the UK is also very
hard, so that would kill the plants as well.

It's a shame because as you say, they would be excellently suited
otherwise. Perhaps create a small bog garden next to the pond. I used a
half barrel and pond liner to make mine, they are great fun in the summer.
Regards
David

DavidM wrote:
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
Being as how these are mostly bog-type plants, and that many of us
have ponds that attract (among other things) bugs, don't these plants
seem like naturals? Has anyone tried a bunch of these planted around
their pond? They don't seem to need much care other than to keep them
wet, which doesn't seem all that hard in a pond setting. Am I missing
a real big drawback to them?

Ponds are not very boggy though. Those kind of plants evolved to grow in
a very niche environment. Bogs are typically acidic and contain
extremely low levels of dissolved nutrients and minerals, hence the
requirement to catch insects for their mineral content. Ponds tend to be
alkaline and packed full of the nutrients and fertilisers that will kill
a bog plant pretty quickly. The water in my part of the UK is also very
hard, so that would kill the plants as well.

It's a shame because as you say, they would be excellently suited
otherwise. Perhaps create a small bog garden next to the pond. I used a
half barrel and pond liner to make mine, they are great fun in the summer.
Regards
David

Perhaps it is again time to question the list on the
difference between a veggie filter and a bog. Since both
are heavily planted, can't one use either or both? Can a
bog serve as a veggie filter? How is dirt used in either?
Can they use the same plants? Is the difference merely
water depth?

Chip

Chip wrote:
DavidM wrote:
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
Being as how these are mostly bog-type plants, and that many of us
have ponds that attract (among other things) bugs, don't these plants
seem like naturals? Has anyone tried a bunch of these planted around
their pond? They don't seem to need much care other than to keep them
wet, which doesn't seem all that hard in a pond setting. Am I missing
a real big drawback to them?

Ponds are not very boggy though. Those kind of plants evolved to grow
in a very niche environment. Bogs are typically acidic and contain
extremely low levels of dissolved nutrients and minerals, hence the
requirement to catch insects for their mineral content. Ponds tend to
be alkaline and packed full of the nutrients and fertilisers that will
kill a bog plant pretty quickly. The water in my part of the UK is
also very hard, so that would kill the plants as well.

It's a shame because as you say, they would be excellently suited
otherwise. Perhaps create a small bog garden next to the pond. I used
a half barrel and pond liner to make mine, they are great fun in the
summer.
Regards
David

Perhaps it is again time to question the list on the difference between
a veggie filter and a bog.

So, to clarify;

*Veggie filter*
- High levels of dissolved nutrient and mineral (excrement from pond
organisms and decomposing plants).
- Alkaline pH due to dissolved nutrient or pond keeper intervention.
- No or little soil (dirt) to encourage root growth and removal of
nutrients from water.
- Constant flow of pond water through or between plants.
- Probably topped up with tap water (water hardness not a major factor)

*Bog garden*
- Very low (approaching zero) nutrient and mineral concentrations. In
nature the plants do not decompose, they just die and become part of the
anaerobic peat bed.
- Acidic pH due to peat composition and anaerobic conditions.
- Dead peat(sphagnum moss) based environment with live moss on the surface.
- NO soil (must not contain nutrient rich decomposed organic matter).
- Very low water flow rate. Mostly still and saturated, or close to
water table in nature.
- Must only use rain water or water with no dissolved minerals and
carbonates.

Since both are heavily planted, can't one use either or both?
Can a bog serve as a veggie filter?

No, for the reasons above. Most importantly, the pH will be put out.
Either the bog will drive it down to acidic levels and cause the fish to
die, or the pond will drive it up and cause the bog plants to die.

How is dirt used in either?

Dirt (soil) is a mixture of decomposed organic matter with different
amounts of sand or stone depending on the environment. Bogs contain no
soil, only dead anaerobic sphagnum moss (sold as peat in garden centers)
covered in a layer of live sphagnum moss.

I don't use any soil in my veggie filter, just bare rooted plants.

Can they use the same plants?

Absolutely not, bog plants will die in a veggie filter and visa versa.

Is the difference merely water depth?

No. My veggie filter is a 6" deep trough with constantly flowing water.
The plants (water cress, mint and iris) just float in there. My bog
garden is 18" deep and full of peat (dead sphagnum moss) and sand. It is
saturated with rain water to about 2" below the surface.

"Chip" wrote in message
...
Perhaps it is again time to question the list on the difference between
a
veggie filter and a bog. Since both are heavily planted, can't one use

either or both? Can a bog serve as a veggie filter? How is dirt used
in
either? Can they use the same plants? Is the difference merely water
depth?
======================
My veggie filter has no soil. It's a 40g tank full of plants. When the
roots take it over I cut them back. A bog would be shallower and contain
soil. I can see a bog quickly filling to overflow with roots and plants.
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

yup... what David says... we got acid bogs just north of us with all kinds of pitcher
plants... sarcena. acid and koi dont mix all that well. Ingrid

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:01:09 EST, DavidM wrote:

Galen Hekhuis wrote:
Being as how these are mostly bog-type plants, and that many of us
have ponds that attract (among other things) bugs, don't these plants
seem like naturals? Has anyone tried a bunch of these planted around
their pond? They don't seem to need much care other than to keep them
wet, which doesn't seem all that hard in a pond setting. Am I missing
a real big drawback to them?

Ponds are not very boggy though. Those kind of plants evolved to grow in
a very niche environment. Bogs are typically acidic and contain
extremely low levels of dissolved nutrients and minerals, hence the
requirement to catch insects for their mineral content. Ponds tend to be
alkaline and packed full of the nutrients and fertilisers that will kill
a bog plant pretty quickly. The water in my part of the UK is also very
hard, so that would kill the plants as well.

It's a shame because as you say, they would be excellently suited
otherwise. Perhaps create a small bog garden next to the pond. I used a
half barrel and pond liner to make mine, they are great fun in the summer.
Regards
David

very nicely put. Ingrid

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:53:02 EST, DavidM wrote:
Perhaps it is again time to question the list on the difference between
a veggie filter and a bog.

So, to clarify;

*Veggie filter*
- High levels of dissolved nutrient and mineral (excrement from pond
organisms and decomposing plants).
- Alkaline pH due to dissolved nutrient or pond keeper intervention.
- No or little soil (dirt) to encourage root growth and removal of
nutrients from water.
- Constant flow of pond water through or between plants.
- Probably topped up with tap water (water hardness not a major factor)

*Bog garden*
- Very low (approaching zero) nutrient and mineral concentrations. In
nature the plants do not decompose, they just die and become part of the
anaerobic peat bed.
- Acidic pH due to peat composition and anaerobic conditions.
- Dead peat(sphagnum moss) based environment with live moss on the surface.
- NO soil (must not contain nutrient rich decomposed organic matter).
- Very low water flow rate. Mostly still and saturated, or close to
water table in nature.
- Must only use rain water or water with no dissolved minerals and
carbonates.

Since both are heavily planted, can't one use either or both?
Can a bog serve as a veggie filter?

No, for the reasons above. Most importantly, the pH will be put out.
Either the bog will drive it down to acidic levels and cause the fish to
die, or the pond will drive it up and cause the bog plants to die.

How is dirt used in either?

Dirt (soil) is a mixture of decomposed organic matter with different
amounts of sand or stone depending on the environment. Bogs contain no
soil, only dead anaerobic sphagnum moss (sold as peat in garden centers)
covered in a layer of live sphagnum moss.

I don't use any soil in my veggie filter, just bare rooted plants.

Can they use the same plants?

Absolutely not, bog plants will die in a veggie filter and visa versa.

Is the difference merely water depth?

No. My veggie filter is a 6" deep trough with constantly flowing water.
The plants (water cress, mint and iris) just float in there. My bog
garden is 18" deep and full of peat (dead sphagnum moss) and sand. It is
saturated with rain water to about 2" below the surface.

wrote:
very nicely put. Ingrid

Thanks :-)
A combo question about two of my hobbies, I how could I resist.
Hope it comes in useful for someone.
David

DavidM wrote:
wrote:
very nicely put. Ingrid

Thanks :-)
A combo question about two of my hobbies, I how could I resist.
Hope it comes in useful for someone.

Contact for carnivorous plants.

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