Hello all you pond guru's :-)
I need some help / advice.
http://picasaweb.google.com/azholub/PondRedesign#
As you ca see from these pics I am redesigning my pond. Because of the
location I cant change it to much but what I am going to do is add a
skimmer and I want to add a bottom drain.
My question for now is regarding the bottom drain. If you take a look
at the picture you will see I have a black PVC 2" pipe in the channel
I cut for it. I don't necessarily need it to be able to completely
drain the pond although that would be perfect, but I would like it to
be able to take about 1/3 of the water out for changes and cleaning
out some of the muck on the bottom. Will the water pressure be enough
to push up that slight grade that you see the pipe in to let the pond
drain?
I have looked at so many bottom drain designs and and thoroughly
confused now. I seen one where the bottom drain was piped back to the
skimmer. Is that a good idea and with the pump in the skimmer and the
drain connected to it will that meathod be good for completely
draining the pond? Example-- http://pondsolutions.com/images/bottom-drain-kit.jpg

Am I right that at the point where the water level and the drain
outlet becomes the same height that the water will not come out
anymore due to equal pressure? If that's the case and the pond like
mine is below ground level how can you drain the pond using a bottom
drain that isn't connected to a pump.

The pond is roughly 6x6 and 2 feet deep. I plan on digging it a little
deeper. so right now its about 450 US Gal.

As you can see I am a DYI'er when it comes to this. I am making my own
skimmer and bottom drain. I cant afford to spend $200 on a "koi pond
skimmer" when I can make one for $17 + a pump I already had and a
bottom drain that can be made from the same materials my shower and
other home plumbing materials. I'm sure a lot of you have done the
same and welcome your tips and suggestions.

I'll be adding photos daily till its up and running and will post
again of course when I'm all done.

Cheers,
Chris

On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 09:50:08 EST, Dude wrote:

Hi Chris,

My question for now is regarding the bottom drain. If you take a look
at the picture you will see I have a black PVC 2" pipe in the channel
I cut for it. I don't necessarily need it to be able to completely
drain the pond although that would be perfect, but I would like it to
be able to take about 1/3 of the water out for changes and cleaning
out some of the muck on the bottom. Will the water pressure be enough
to push up that slight grade that you see the pipe in to let the pond
drain?

Have you got a bottom drain that has a connection for a 2inch pipe? The
only ones I've seen are for 4inch but I don't really take a lot of
notice of them.

The water won't push up the pipe unless you have it sealed so that it
can act as a syphon and even then the outlet must be below the water
level at all times for it to work.

Can't answer about the skimmer but if you were to use 4inch pipe from
the bottom drain, run it horizontally until it's clear of the pond and
then put an 90 degree elbow in to bring it to the surface you could
drop a small pump in when you wanted to drain it. You may be able to
get an aquarium internal pump that will fit and can have a hose
connected alternatively have a look at sewer fittings for example:
http://www.bes.co.uk/products/132.asp and fit an inspection chamber
that you can put your filter pump in and then use it to drain the pond.
Obviously you will need one that is watertight when full of water and
the side riser in the URL won't be but I have seen single piece ones.

Larger diameter hoses/pipes are always better for flow than small
diameter ones and the solid pipes can give 40% better flow over a
flexible one in some cases.

You can see the effect on water flow in the last two pictures here
http://www.infohitsystems.ltd.uk/Gal...to.sh?path=PND when
we upgraded from 40mm flexible to 50mm solid using the same pumps.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

Dude wrote:

I have looked at so many bottom drain designs and and thoroughly
confused now. I seen one where the bottom drain was piped back to the
skimmer. Is that a good idea and with the pump in the skimmer and the
drain connected to it will that meathod be good for completely
draining the pond? Example-- http://pondsolutions.com/images/bottom-drain-kit.jpg


Just as a point of info- my pool bottom drain is plumbed to
the bottom of my skimmer well, that water then flows to
another pipe at the bottom of my skimmer to my filter/pump.
Works quite well normally, but has no flexibility and is
not useful in draining the pool. My pump can't draw enough
water from the bottom drain to keep the skimmer well filled
when the water line is below the skimmer edge. Just lots of
air.

I would suggest 2 lines, each with a variable cut-off to
your pump- one from the bottom drain, one from the skimmer.
That way you have max flexibility to handle any situation.

Chip

On Dec 3, 8:50 am, Dude wrote:
Your pond improvements look nice. You will enjoy the increase in
space.

You are right. Water flows down hill. Equal levels will mean no
flow.

Most of us have set ups where a pump or a siphon hose is needed to
empty the whole pond. That is not so bad if you ever get a leak or a
filter overflow.

You will bless the day you put a drain at the low point. Muck can be
grabbed and dropped by the water in your filter or veggie filter. (We
went that route and love it!...see our pond site in our profile) You
will not need to do much vacuuming if your drain is at the low point.
Fish swimming will push the muck to the drain.

We share your liking of cheaper solutions!

Jim

Hi Rodney

Have you got a bottom drain that has a connection for a 2inch pipe? The
only ones I've seen are for 4inch but I don't really take a lot of
notice of them.

Yeah its for a 2" or 3" pipe. Mine is connected to the 2" ABC pipe. I
added some more pictures and now you can get an idea of what it looks
like.

The water won't push up the pipe unless you have it sealed so that it
can act as a syphon and even then the outlet must be below the water
level at all times for it to work.

That's what I assumed so I think I will just install it similar to
what you can see in my last few pics that I took today and for the
most part I will use it for partial water changes.

Cheers,
Chris

Thanks everyone for you tips and suggestions.
If all goes well I think my pond will be back together tomorrow.
I'm going to update my set of photos of the pond so you can see what
it looked like a few years back to what it looked like this summer.

Cheers,
Chris

Ok the pond is up and running. It's not perfect but at least I'm done
for now. I still have to get plants in it and I want to hide the liner
by putting rock up against the wall still but I have ran out of
materials.
http://picasaweb.google.com/azholub/PondRedesign#

I'm in Phoenix and were like zone 8 - 9. Is it ok to start buying
plants and putting them in now or should I wait till maybe March when
its starting to warm back up?

I like the water feature. Good flow.

It will look even nice with plants around it.

Good work.

Jim

On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:14:24 EST, Dude wrote:

Thanks everyone for you tips and suggestions.
If all goes well I think my pond will be back together tomorrow.
I'm going to update my set of photos of the pond so you can see what
it looked like a few years back to what it looked like this summer.

Cheers,
Chris

Hi Chris, do include your website, some of us on newsreaders delete as we
read. ;-) ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Dec 13, 6:18 am, Phyllis and Jim wrote:
I like the water feature. Good flow.

It will look even nice with plants around it.

Good work.

Jim

Thanks Jim,
yeah I would like to get it planted soon but I think I will wait till
March now to make sure nothing gets killed by a possible frost.

Cheers,
Chris

Hi Chris, do include your website, some of us on newsreaders delete as we
read. ;-) ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds:www.jjspond.us


Hi Jan I did post the website again http://picasaweb.google.com/azholub/Pon
dRedesign
if thats what you referring to.
Did you get to see the final pics yet?

Cheers,
Chris