I'm re-designing my back yard, and have somehow talked my wife into
letting me put in a koi/goldfish pond. I really didn't expect her to
go along with it, and now that she has I'm almost disarmed! I haven't
done the research that I should have done, and now I need to move
forward rather quickly before (a) she changes her mind, and (b) before
cold weather sets in. So, I come begging for advice.

I'm in the western part of North Carolina (eastern US), so winters do
get cold, but usually not extremely cold. We might have 20F degree
weather a few days out of the year, but I haven't seen anything below
that in 20 years or more.

I have a rather large area that I CAN use, but I figured that I would
make the pond roughly 8' x 12'. I've also thought of doing another
smaller pond in a nearby location (maybe 4' x 6'), and then connecting
the two with a culvert pipe buried underground. I can easily go 3'
deep (maybe more), if I use a thick plastic sheet as the outside of
the pond instead of buying a plastic pre-fab.

With these dimensions, would I be able to use koi, or do I need to
stick with goldfish? For someone with a fair amount of experience with
indoor aquariums, but no experience with a pond, am I going to be over
my head with koi, anyway?

Next, I should mention that the yard is somewhere between shady and
part sun, depending on the season. There are trees surrounding the
perimeter, too, so leaves and pine needles are abundant (which keeps
me from having a swimming pool; the pine needles turn a pool green in
no time). Knowing this, what type of filtration (if any) do I need to
use? I intend to use several underwater plants (and I'll probably ask
for advice on that when I'm closer to completion).

With a pond of these dimensions and in this region, would I still need
to bring the fish inside during the colder days? With 2 indoor dogs
and 2 indoor cats, that's not exactly the best solution for me, so I
would rather take steps to leave them outside if I can. I do have a
55G tank that's not used, and could use it in an emergency, but that
could only realistically hold 5 or 6 full grown pond fish for a day or
two.

Last but not least, what else should I consider before moving forward
with this project?

I appreciate any advice! TIA,

Jason


PS, I originally posted this at the Freshwater Aquarium group, but was
directed here instead. I apologize for the crosspost.

I'm sure more folks will jump in but I'll start :-)

Other things to think about - how are you set for wildlife
around there? Raccoons specifically.

Vertical sides (no plant shelves) and a thought out ahead
plan for netting is a good idea (for leaves in the fall - do
needles shed all year round or just at one time?).

For predators you can also use electric fencing or motion
activated sprinklers. Results will vary.

I think the size sounds good and I'm all for deeper is
better. If you keep a hole open in the days you have ice
(if you do) you will be fine for winter care.

For plants you can put them on black overturned plastic *milk*
cartons (usually sold at office supply stores). I have my plants
on an island built of aged builder's brick - makes nice fishy
condos.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

kathy :-)

On Sep 15, 12:15 pm, kathy wrote:
I'm sure more folks will jump in but I'll start :-)

Other things to think about - how are you set for wildlife
around there? Raccoons specifically.

Vertical sides (no plant shelves) and a thought out ahead
plan for netting is a good idea (for leaves in the fall - do
needles shed all year round or just at one time?).

For predators you can also use electric fencing or motion
activated sprinklers. Results will vary.

I think the size sounds good and I'm all for deeper is
better. If you keep a hole open in the days you have ice
(if you do) you will be fine for winter care.

For plants you can put them on black overturned plastic *milk*
cartons (usually sold at office supply stores). I have my plants
on an island built of aged builder's brick - makes nice fishy
condos.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

kathy :-)

Thanks for the input, Kathy! The area I'm landscaping is completely
fenced in, so most wildlife isn't a problem. I'll have squirrels, and
the occasional stray cat, but that's all. Well, of course there are
frogs and lizards, but I hope to encourage more of those! I don't
think that any of these would be a significant problem.

The only thing that DOES worry me is black snakes. I have one large
black snake that stays nearby, but she keeps mice, rats, and other
snakes away so I'm OK with that. She can get into the back yard, too,
though, and I don't think there's anything I could do about it. Do
black snakes go after fish?

Pine needles are mostly in the fall, but I have sap and what I call
"pine nuts" all year long. I don't know what they're really called,
but they're little hard things things that fall out of the pine trees.
These are the things that messed up my pool water, though, so I know
that I'll have the same problem here; I'm just hoping that with the
pond being smaller and with a live habitat that it won't be as much of
a problem.

I love the idea of using builder's bricks for plant stands! I have a
ton of those, so that's perfect. Why do you recommend vertical sides
of the pond, though? I had originally planned to use rock to create a
steep slope, with the hopes that it would hold algae for the fish to
eat and give me a place for plants.

Do you use any type of filter for your pond? I've gotten very mixed
information on that, so I'm not sure how to handle it.

Finally, what do you think about the idea of the culvert attaching the
big pond to the small one? Will fish actually use the culvert to come
to the smaller pond for food?

There is loads of good advice out there read as much as you can before
spade hits soil.
Best thing I did on my pond was to put in second level that was easily
converted into a veggie filter.
My only regret is not putting in a bottom drain,
Peter

Oh and personally I'd stick too goldfish, comets and shubumkins, but it
depends how serious you feel like getting, and how much you are prepared
to spend.

Snake!!!
As far as I can tell black snakes are not interested in fish.
It will be thrilled with increased visits to your pond from local
critters. Water snakes, cottonmouths and garter snakes like
fish. They are not a commonly reported problem in rec.ponds of
old and rec.ponds.moderated.

Veggie filter - how could I have forgotten! Jim, where are your
pictures. For filtering I use plants - I have goldfish and a couple
of koi in 3,300 gallons. I have a waterfall pool that I can fill with
water hyacinth and watercress in baskets. Right now the pond is full
of hornwort - I gathered a few sprigs of the hated plant (Fish and
WIldlife
and biologists) by the riverside
and it filled the pond. Great for hiding the fish from herons and
kingfishers.

The reason we say a straight vertical side is to keep raccoons out.
Also makes
it less accessible to herons. I've had raccoons and skunks come in our
backyard and we have a six foot wooden fence. They can be tricksy.

Do pine nuts float? You can add a skimmer.

Substrate algae will grow on lots of stuff. Rock is usually
discouraged because
it will gather mud and gunk and need to be cleaned out. It looks
pretty.
Usually folks with rock have to empty the pond and powerwash out the
gunk once a year. We're too lazy around there to do that! Also plants
placed
in rock are impossible to get out. (I did a bog with rock once and I
could not
weed it, it finally grew in and we had to take it out.

kathy :-)

snip

Finally, what do you think about the idea of the culvert attaching the
big pond to the small one? Will fish actually use the culvert to come
to the smaller pond for food?

How are you going to join the culvert to each pond liner?

Hugh

--

Hugh Newbury

www.evershot-weather.org

Hugh Newbury wrote:

snip

Finally, what do you think about the idea of the culvert attaching the
big pond to the small one? Will fish actually use the culvert to come
to the smaller pond for food?

How are you going to join the culvert to each pond liner?

Hugh

A better (and easier) approach might be to have a stream from one to the
other. Make the small pond up higher. Pump to it and then let the stream
circulate back to the big one.


San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Koi, Goldfish, and RES named Colombo.

On Sep 15, 6:35 pm, kathy wrote:
Snake!!!
As far as I can tell black snakes are not interested in fish.
It will be thrilled with increased visits to your pond from local
critters. Water snakes, cottonmouths and garter snakes like
fish. They are not a commonly reported problem in rec.ponds of
old and rec.ponds.moderated.

Veggie filter - how could I have forgotten! Jim, where are your
pictures. For filtering I use plants - I have goldfish and a couple
of koi in 3,300 gallons. I have a waterfall pool that I can fill with
water hyacinth and watercress in baskets. Right now the pond is full
of hornwort - I gathered a few sprigs of the hated plant (Fish and
WIldlife
and biologists) by the riverside
and it filled the pond. Great for hiding the fish from herons and
kingfishers.

The reason we say a straight vertical side is to keep raccoons out.
Also makes
it less accessible to herons. I've had raccoons and skunks come in our
backyard and we have a six foot wooden fence. They can be tricksy.

Do pine nuts float? You can add a skimmer.

Substrate algae will grow on lots of stuff. Rock is usually
discouraged because
it will gather mud and gunk and need to be cleaned out. It looks
pretty.
Usually folks with rock have to empty the pond and powerwash out the
gunk once a year. We're too lazy around there to do that! Also plants
placed
in rock are impossible to get out. (I did a bog with rock once and I
could not
weed it, it finally grew in and we had to take it out.

kathy :-)


So, I'm looking at a kit that includes the following:

20x20' pond liner The pond liner is 45 mil epdm liner with a 25 year
warranty.
Atlantic BF1000 Waterfall Filter
2500 gph waterfall pump
Atlantic 4000 Skimmer
All fittings to connect pump , skimmer and waterfall
PVC flex hose.


Is there anything else that I'll need in order to start building?
Aside from the obvious rock border, plants, fish, etc.

Pain killers, a heating pad, a cold beer?

Actually my husband did all our work so someone
else look over the list!

bestest luck!

kathy :-)

In article
,
Jason Carlton wrote:

On Sep 15, 6:35 pm, kathy wrote:
Snake!!!
As far as I can tell black snakes are not interested in fish.
It will be thrilled with increased visits to your pond from local
critters. Water snakes, cottonmouths and garter snakes like
fish. They are not a commonly reported problem in rec.ponds of
old and rec.ponds.moderated.

Veggie filter - how could I have forgotten! Jim, where are your
pictures. For filtering I use plants - I have goldfish and a couple
of koi in 3,300 gallons. I have a waterfall pool that I can fill with
water hyacinth and watercress in baskets. Right now the pond is full
of hornwort - I gathered a few sprigs of the hated plant (Fish and
WIldlife
and biologists) by the riverside
and it filled the pond. Great for hiding the fish from herons and
kingfishers.

The reason we say a straight vertical side is to keep raccoons out.
Also makes
it less accessible to herons. I've had raccoons and skunks come in our
backyard and we have a six foot wooden fence. They can be tricksy.

Do pine nuts float? You can add a skimmer.

Substrate algae will grow on lots of stuff. Rock is usually
discouraged because
it will gather mud and gunk and need to be cleaned out. It looks
pretty.
Usually folks with rock have to empty the pond and powerwash out the
gunk once a year. We're too lazy around there to do that! Also plants
placed
in rock are impossible to get out. (I did a bog with rock once and I
could not
weed it, it finally grew in and we had to take it out.

kathy :-)


So, I'm looking at a kit that includes the following:

20x20' pond liner The pond liner is 45 mil epdm liner with a 25 year
warranty.
Atlantic BF1000 Waterfall Filter
2500 gph waterfall pump
Atlantic 4000 Skimmer
All fittings to connect pump , skimmer and waterfall
PVC flex hose.


Is there anything else that I'll need in order to start building?
Aside from the obvious rock border, plants, fish, etc.

Felt liner or old carpet to go under the epdm liner. They sell this
espcially for ponds. Have it under mine. Well worth the added insurance
against a tear.
If you have a waterfall filter, I highly recommend installing (if this
one has it) a drain hole from the bottom connected to tubing with a
guillotine valve on the end to easily drain the filter of muck and drain
some of your pond water for water changes.
Best addition I ever made.

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

Is there anything else that I'll need in order to start building?
Aside from the obvious rock border, plants, fish, etc.

Jason, I highly encourage a bottom drain to filter rather than pump in
pond, if that is what you're thinking. You can see how I configured my pond
after the fact (about bottom drains) on my webpage. My maintenance is so
much easier, and with having to go back to work and aging, I'm really glad
for bottom drains.

Are you already at the point of digging or planning to start in spring?
~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Oct 11, 5:39 pm, ~ jan wrote:
Is there anything else that I'll need in order to start building?
Aside from the obvious rock border, plants, fish, etc.

Jason, I highly encourage a bottom drain to filter rather than pump in
pond, if that is what you're thinking. You can see how I configured my po
nd
after the fact (about bottom drains) on my webpage. My maintenance is so
much easier, and with having to go back to work and aging, I'm really gla
d
for bottom drains.

Are you already at the point of digging or planning to start in spring?
~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds:www.jjspond.us


I'm hoping to start digging within the next couple of weeks so that I
can put in the plants surrounding the pond, and then stock the pond in
the spring. If things go as planned, then this winter the pond would
just be a glorified fountain.

Step one, though, is having several trees removed from the surrounding
area (mostly pine). They're not close enough to be a real problem, but
I want to make sure that I can remove any roots, too, and to help
prevent pine needles and such from falling into the water. I need 2
weeks of dry weather before the guys can take down the trees, though,
so it's all depending on the weather.

Thanks for the insight on the bottom drain, I'll start looking into
that as soon as I finish this post :-)