Your Mother weres combat boots.

Kathy wrote:
These off topic individuals have no intention of ending their
attacks to allow sanity to return to rec.ponds. Others will soon
see this and killfile them all into oblivion.

In article
er (Ronn) wrote:

"Ronn" wrote in message
...

"pondmeister" wrote in message
xpo.st...

You seem new here. Let me update you. Reel Mckoi is a visicious
Off-Topic
spammer that brought decay and destruction to rec.ponds

/FLUSH!

Your hysterical semi~literate message is completely off topic,
inflammatory, self serving, petty, a waste of bandwidth and
you're trolling rec.ponds. You're adding to the problem you
claimed you wanted to end.

Phyllis and Jim Hurley wrote:
Congratulations on getting hooked. Have you posted any pics of your
pond? (Our pondsite below shows ours.)


What is this, I show you mine, you show me yours?

Kathy,

I appreciate your concern and am certainly not offended by it. I would
love to hear how your ignoring the rules came back to hurt you. I would
far ratehr learn from someone ELSE's mistakes than make them myself!

I have thought about the issue of water change, but have not begun any
regular steps. I am well satisfied they do not need 10% per week (read
400 gal = drain one berm pond per week)as we have gone years without it,
but realize that there will be some concentrating of non-evaporating
stuff in the water. I am confident I will never do a regular 10% change.

I should probably do the dilution rate math to see how a regular 10%
change would work out over time, i.e. take account of the increase in
concentration by addition of water and the dilution by draining the
concentrated water and adding fresh water. As I remarked, we do drain
all the berm ponds annually to remove muck. That is one 25% change per
year. Beyond that we have additions and the occasional
pump-stop-drains-150-gal-from-the-barrels events. I am open to the
thought of draining a berm pond per week. I would have to make sure it
did not have fish I want in it! Probably, I would develop a
collar/filter to put over the drain to retain a couple of inches of
water after draining and to keep the fish from going down. I think it
more likely that I would do several 25% changes. The replacement rate
from the toilet filter is slow enough that the chlorine is no problem
when we remove a substantial amount of water.

I am interested that you see us as overstocked. What guidelines are you
thinking about? If I have 10 koi in 4000 gallons, that is 400 gal per
fish. If I applied the 1000-for-the-1st-and-100-per-additional-koi
formula, we have 333 gal per additional koi. If I count goldies as 1/2 a
koi, I might have 14 koi-equivalents in the 3000 gal. That is still
well over 200 gal per additional koi. The water circulates down falls
and streams at a nominal 2000 gal/hr rate (tho my measurements look more
like 1500 gal/hr). The aeration seems fine, even excessive. I was
holding the view that our basic understocking helps with water quality.

Could you point me to sites that will help me see at what point the
growing mineral concentration and not replacing water is a major threat?

Thanks

Jim

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:
Our pond system has 3K gallons in the main pond and 1K gallons in the
berm ponds and barrels. The pond has about 10 koi, full sized, and
about the same number of goldfish. The berm plants do a great job of
handling the muck...growth like crazy and clear water. We have not done
any regular water changes. The toilet valve does replace the
evaporation on a regular basis...MS is very hot. The koi don't seem to
have suffetred any particular problems from the lack of changes. They
have grown like weeds and are 20 to 28". The ratio of koi per gallon is
pretty good. That may help. Jim


Now bear with me, I'm not trying to be a "I know better than thou" here. It
is just I'm trying to prevent my mistakes passing on to another. I, too,
wasn't real good about doing my water changes as the experts suggest. It
finally bit me in the butt, and that is my concern/worry for you. Some of
those experts would consider your situation on the high end of the stocking
rate. Fish are bigger, pond stays the same, all the more reason to follow
their advice.... or, since I'm suggesting it "go not where I have been".
;o) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in message
...

I am interested that you see us as overstocked. What guidelines are you
thinking about? If I have 10 koi in 4000 gallons, that is 400 gal per
fish.
========================
We have 15 koi in a well filtered 2000 gallon Pond and they're thriving.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm

Cracklin' wrote:


"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in message
...

I am interested that you see us as overstocked. What guidelines are you
thinking about? If I have 10 koi in 4000 gallons, that is 400 gal per
fish.
========================
We have 15 koi in a well filtered 2000 gallon Pond and they're thriving.

Doesn't seem too much to me. 15 koi in 2000 gallons shouldn't even be
pushing it.
--
derek

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
Cracklin' wrote:


"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in message
...

I am interested that you see us as overstocked. What guidelines are you
thinking about? If I have 10 koi in 4000 gallons, that is 400 gal per
fish.
========================
We have 15 koi in a well filtered 2000 gallon Pond and they're thriving.

Doesn't seem too much to me. 15 koi in 2000 gallons shouldn't even be
pushing it.
--
derek
=============================
I do partial water changes regularly and I'm sure the plantfilter-settling
tank with the small aeration tower also helps keep the water in excellent
condition. This pond, like the other pond and pools, is loaded with a
variety of thriving plants along 3 sides. The only additive is the Koi-Zyme
a few times over the spring and summer.

The plants get the Potassium and a few handfuls of kitty litter now and
then. Only the water lilies get the Job's Rose Spikes. This summer I only
added them in the spring to see how long they would last. Unlike the
expensive fertilizer Tabs made for pond plants, these Jobe's sticks still
have the lilies blooming like crazy and they're still a dark green. :-) I
love 'em!
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Please excuse my top posting, however due to the material, It not
important. However it is anoynous posts like theses that further the decay
of rec.ponds. This reply was done by Carol. There is no need to employ any
sort of tracking skill or delve into techno geekology. Nobody in Rec.ponds
hates Jabriol in this fashion.

We know it is Carol, because she follows-up imediately on her own forged
posts.
Any newsreader will show that the revis post breaks right off of the Reel
Mckoi forged post. This demostrate retaliation. We all know Carol can not
keep her mouth shut. If she is attacked she has the need to retaliate; it
is an established well proven fact.

The attack post is directed to Jabriol.
It accuse Jabriol of having sex with his daughter.
It then post Jabriol\'s home address and telephone number.
It claims Jabriol has an issue with sex.

Does anyone care about this on rec.ponds?

De we know of any other ponder who would go this length? The normal
response of a ponder is just to dump the offender into the kill file and
move on. Not Carol. She has the pyschological need to attack the father
that raped her projecting it toward Jabriol. Believe me, today it is
Jabriol. What is to say Carol would not commit the same harrasment with
any of you ponders?

I fear that this pattern will occur with any new or interested person.
Since we all know this is not going to stop I would suggest moving to the
new group. Anyone who think this is just in passing look at the archives.
It will be a year, and Carol says she been fighting with Jabriol for 10.

When Carol attack you, You will recall my warnings. In fact she already is
attacking all of you. There is a post in the JW group calling us idiots
and drunken sailors. Can you consider her your friend?






Revis wrote:


In article
Reel Mckoi
NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.235.85.140/Qwest: Jersey City NJ HUB wrote:

Phyllis and Jim Hurley wrote:
Congratulations on getting hooked. Have you posted any pics of your
pond? (Our pondsite below shows ours.)


What is this, I show you mine, you show me yours?



This comment from Antonio L. Sanata of

3072 Constitution Road
Camden N.J.
(856) 962-9003 who believes in having incestious sex with his
daughter Revis. Sex is always on Antonio\'s mind.

*** Sent From/Enviado desde: http://groups.expo.st ***

Kathy,

Not sure how Kathy (poor thing (K30/kathy) just can't stay out of here even
when she has totally exited) got caught up in this, but I (~jan) was the
one posted about water changes.

I am confident I will never do a regular 10% change.

Well than, I probably can't change your mind.

I am interested that you see us as overstocked.

Not overstocked, but more like at critical mass. Where everything is
perfect, but might not take much to upset the apple cart.

Could you point me to sites that will help me see at what point the
growing mineral concentration and not replacing water is a major threat?

The one I sent hotpepper to:
http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/finalnet.html#waterchange

Even though it is probably futile for me to continue, perhaps someone else
will take heed from my story. In my case, I was doing water changes of
25%/month, was over critical mass, and didn't sell off or give away enough
koi fast enough. The only thing that was showing on my water tests was very
low ammonia. So I had overcrowding and that barely detectable ammonia as
the stressors. Ended up dropping my koi numbers by half quick, but I sure
got hands on learning experience on treating for ulcers.

I'm now a believer in those 10%/week water changes, and had the guys put in
an attachment to make it easier for me to do them. Spike Cover (head
coordinator of the KHA program) did an article on, what is better? Drain
down 10% and refill, or remove from one end while filling at the other
(overflow)? Turned out they both worked equally well for reducing "stuff"
in the water column, so that is the one I use now. I'm also a believer in
Koizyme.

Unfortunately, because my numbers were drastically reduced they spawned, so
I'm back to serious reducing again come next spring.s ~ jan

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Oops...wrong person. Sorry Kathy (gone) and Jan.

I will read the article you posted tomorrow.

Jim

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:
Kathy,


Not sure how Kathy (poor thing (K30/kathy) just can't stay out of here even
when she has totally exited) got caught up in this, but I (~jan) was the
one posted about water changes.


I am confident I will never do a regular 10% change.


Well than, I probably can't change your mind.


I am interested that you see us as overstocked.


Not overstocked, but more like at critical mass. Where everything is
perfect, but might not take much to upset the apple cart.


Could you point me to sites that will help me see at what point the
growing mineral concentration and not replacing water is a major threat?


The one I sent hotpepper to:
http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/finalnet.html#waterchange

Even though it is probably futile for me to continue, perhaps someone else
will take heed from my story. In my case, I was doing water changes of
25%/month, was over critical mass, and didn't sell off or give away enough
koi fast enough. The only thing that was showing on my water tests was very
low ammonia. So I had overcrowding and that barely detectable ammonia as
the stressors. Ended up dropping my koi numbers by half quick, but I sure
got hands on learning experience on treating for ulcers.

I'm now a believer in those 10%/week water changes, and had the guys put in
an attachment to make it easier for me to do them. Spike Cover (head
coordinator of the KHA program) did an article on, what is better? Drain
down 10% and refill, or remove from one end while filling at the other
(overflow)? Turned out they both worked equally well for reducing "stuff"
in the water column, so that is the one I use now. I'm also a believer in
Koizyme.

Unfortunately, because my numbers were drastically reduced they spawned, so
I'm back to serious reducing again come next spring.s ~ jan

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

**** off and learn English Jabbers

"PondMeister" wrote in message
o.st...
Please excuse my top posting, however due to the material, It not
important. However it is anoynous posts like theses that further the decay
of rec.ponds. This reply was done by Carol. There is no need to employ any
sort of tracking skill or delve into techno geekology. Nobody in Rec.ponds
hates Jabriol in this fashion.

We know it is Carol, because she follows-up imediately on her own forged
posts.
Any newsreader will show that the revis post breaks right off of the Reel
Mckoi forged post. This demostrate retaliation. We all know Carol can not
keep her mouth shut. If she is attacked she has the need to retaliate; it
is an established well proven fact.

The attack post is directed to Jabriol.
It accuse Jabriol of having sex with his daughter.
It then post Jabriol\'s home address and telephone number.
It claims Jabriol has an issue with sex.

Does anyone care about this on rec.ponds?

De we know of any other ponder who would go this length? The normal
response of a ponder is just to dump the offender into the kill file and
move on. Not Carol. She has the pyschological need to attack the father
that raped her projecting it toward Jabriol. Believe me, today it is
Jabriol. What is to say Carol would not commit the same harrasment with
any of you ponders?

I fear that this pattern will occur with any new or interested person.
Since we all know this is not going to stop I would suggest moving to the
new group. Anyone who think this is just in passing look at the archives.
It will be a year, and Carol says she been fighting with Jabriol for 10.

When Carol attack you, You will recall my warnings. In fact she already is
attacking all of you. There is a post in the JW group calling us idiots
and drunken sailors. Can you consider her your friend?






Revis wrote:


In article
Reel Mckoi
NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.235.85.140/Qwest: Jersey City NJ HUB wrote:

Phyllis and Jim Hurley wrote:
Congratulations on getting hooked. Have you posted any pics of your
pond? (Our pondsite below shows ours.)


What is this, I show you mine, you show me yours?



This comment from Antonio L. Sanata of

3072 Constitution Road
Camden N.J.
(856) 962-9003 who believes in having incestious sex with his daughter
Revis. Sex is always on Antonio\'s mind.

*** Sent From/Enviado desde: http://groups.expo.st ***

PondMeister said:

Please excuse my top posting, however due to the material, It not
important. However it is anoynous posts like theses that further the decay
of rec.ponds. This reply was done by Carol. There is no need to employ any
sort of tracking skill or delve into techno geekology. Nobody in Rec.ponds
hates Jabriol in this fashion.

Does anyone care about this on rec.ponds?


We in alt.free.newsservers dont want this shit either, you xposted it to
there so you are just as bad, use a filter, fool.
--
Want to help to keep the best free usenet servers running ?
http://www.readfreenews.com

Cracklin' wrote:
===========
Thanks! The feeling is mutual. :-)

The destruction of the NG rec.ponds is almost complete.
CR....

Oh, and you Jabriol once said you never CHANGE people's messages, but then
you lie so much - here's proof you lie and change them Jabriol-Zod.
------------------------- start:

Thanks! The feeling is mutual. :-)

You wouldn't believe what Jabbers and his two symshifting sycophants
(including their sock-puppets) have done to rec.ponds. The latest craze is
"my father raped me." Jabbers is always referring to rape and violent sex.
Disgusting. :þ

The destruction of the NG rec.ponds is almost complete. They're a real
troll trilogy.

CR....
------------------------- end

But Jabriol changed it to the message below - just like he changed or
tweaked other messages I've posted on Usenet.

(JABRIOL-ZOD) wrote in message
oups.com...
NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.54.155.48 -

Cracklin' wrote:
===========
Thanks! The feeling is mutual. :-)

The destruction of the NG rec.ponds is almost complete.
CR....