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Old 13-09-2005, 04:24 PM
hotpepper
 
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Default New Pond Keeper needs help

I inherited a pond about 2 years ago in my new house in the south of
England and although it was a nice feature I ignored it until very
recently. Its about 3000 ltrs (650 gals) 2m X 3m X 0.7m and I think
its many years old, I think its made of concrete and has some very
attractive stonework around and in the pond, the sides look like stone
bricks. Someone obviously spent a lot of time on it so I thought I
should do something with it. It's in a very shady spot but does get
some direct sunshine in the middle of the afternoon.

It was not filtered and everything was overgrown, it basically looked
like a swap. I started by clearing all the overgrown vegetation and
have left a decent sized patch of Lilly's in the middle with some
oxygenators and reeds.


Then (I didn't now about pond vacs at this point) dredged the bottom
with my bare hands then a coarse net, then a fine net. So now I have a
thin layer of sludge at the bottom. I then added a good quality
filtration system with a small water fall, UV clarifier, an air ball
and some lighting.

I already had three largish goldfish, I've added 3 Tench, 3 Commits,
3 Goldfish, 3 blue orfe, 3 Sebunkins, all are quit small 3in.

Everything seems fine expect I can't see the Tench but I assume they
are ok. The water was very murky but after a few days it has started to
clear (you can see the rocks at the bottom of the pond) and is no
longer green.

My questions a

1 - Have I done the right thing in terms of setup and cleaning?

2 - I have had mixed advice on this but should I drain and clean the
pond and does this need to be done every year?

3 - Can I keep Koi in this pond?

4 - Is there anything else I should do?

5 - How many fish should I keep in the pond?

5 - Where have the Tench gone?

Sorry for the long story but I didn't want to leave anything out but
needless to say but I am now totally hooked!!!

Thanks in advance for you help.


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Old 13-09-2005, 05:08 PM
Reel Mckoi
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"hotpepper" wrote in message
ups.com...
I inherited a pond about 2 years ago in my new house in the south of
England and although it was a nice feature I ignored it until very
recently. Its about 3000 ltrs (650 gals) 2m X 3m X 0.7m and I think
its many years old, I think its made of concrete and has some very
attractive stonework around and in the pond, the sides look like stone
bricks. Someone obviously spent a lot of time on it so I thought I
should do something with it. It's in a very shady spot but does get
some direct sunshine in the middle of the afternoon.


## Many pond plants grow in partial sun.

It was not filtered and everything was overgrown, it basically looked
like a swap. I started by clearing all the overgrown vegetation and
have left a decent sized patch of Lilly's in the middle with some
oxygenators and reeds.


## Speaking only for myself I would clean out the whole thing. I'd refill
it and add the most attractive plants back to this pond. Discard or give the
rest away.

Then (I didn't now about pond vacs at this point) dredged the bottom
with my bare hands then a coarse net, then a fine net. So now I have a
thin layer of sludge at the bottom. I then added a good quality
filtration system with a small water fall, UV clarifier, an air ball
and some lighting.


## I sounds like it's a pretty pond. ;-)

I already had three largish goldfish, I've added 3 Tench, 3 Commits,
3 Goldfish, 3 blue orfe, 3 Sebunkins, all are quit small 3in.


## I would say that's too many fish for only 650 gallons. With good care
and feeding they will grow rapidly. Goldfish can get almost a foot long and
you now have 12 of them. They also reproduce like crazy. Watch for an
ammonia or Nitrite spike.

Everything seems fine expect I can't see the Tench but I assume they
are ok. The water was very murky but after a few days it has started to
clear (you can see the rocks at the bottom of the pond) and is no
longer green.

My questions a

1 - Have I done the right thing in terms of setup and cleaning?


## I would have cleaned EVERYTHING out including the sludge on the bottom
and started over.

2 - I have had mixed advice on this but should I drain and clean the
pond and does this need to be done every year?


## We do ours every other year but they range from 2000 to 800 gallons and
we don't has as many fish per gallon as you do.

3 - Can I keep Koi in this pond?


## NO!!!! It's much to small for koi. Koi can reach 3 feet long.

4 - Is there anything else I should do?


## Watch for ammonia and nitrite spikes. You have a lot of fish in a small
pond.

5 - How many fish should I keep in the pond?


## That depends on their size and how good your filtration system is.

5 - Where have the Tench gone?


## Hiding perhaps?

Sorry for the long story but I didn't want to leave anything out but
needless to say but I am now totally hooked!!!


## That's how it happens. :-)

Thanks in advance for you help.

--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

  #3   Report Post  
Old 13-09-2005, 05:45 PM
hotpepper
 
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Default

Thanks for your reply, your pond pics look fantastic - if only I had
the space. I think with hindsight I would have drainded and cleaned it
but wasnt really sure. I will proably wait till late spring next year
and give it a good clean out.

My local garden centre does free pond water tests so I will go down
this weekend with my sample :-)

I was hoping that the Orfes would keep the numbers down but I will
watch out if the numbers start racking up. I'm sure I can find people
to take them in my local area if the numbers get to much and will
reduce further as they get bigger.

I hope the Filtration is top of the range - I spent a small fortune on
it - it filters the entire pond every 30 mins. The Filter spec is for
1500US gallons and the pond is aprox 800 US gallons - I quoted UK
gallons before.

  #4   Report Post  
Old 13-09-2005, 06:07 PM
Derek Broughton
 
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Default

hotpepper wrote:

I already had three largish goldfish, I've added 3 Tench, 3 Commits,
3 Goldfish, 3 blue orfe, 3 Sebunkins, all are quit small 3in.

Everything seems fine expect I can't see the Tench but I assume they
are ok.


Tench are pretty much muddy-water-colored, aren't they? They'll probably
show up.

The water was very murky but after a few days it has started to
clear (you can see the rocks at the bottom of the pond) and is no
longer green.

My questions a

1 - Have I done the right thing in terms of setup and cleaning?


Mostly. I wouldn't have put new fish in until the muck you'd stirred up
settled out, and you should really quarantine new fish if you don't want to
risk killing off the ones you already had.

2 - I have had mixed advice on this but should I drain and clean the
pond and does this need to be done every year?

3 - Can I keep Koi in this pond?


I think not - it's pretty shallow.

4 - Is there anything else I should do?


Enjoy!

5 - How many fish should I keep in the pond?


No more for now. They'll breed (at least assuming you've got some of both
sexes for each species - which is pretty much guaranteed for the
goldfish/Comets/Shebunkins, which are all the same species), and before you
know it, you'll be asking us how to get rid of the extras.

5 - Where have the Tench gone?


It's amazing how fish can hide. Unless your water is clear enough to
actually see the bottom, it's rarely quite as clear as you think it is, so
that helps then hide. Then they take advantage of any bit of foliage, and
many fish are particularly timid when first introduced to a new pond. If
you were missing an assortment of fish, I might think a predator had found
the pond already, but since it's just the Tench, I'm sure they're hiding.
--
derek
  #5   Report Post  
Old 13-09-2005, 06:13 PM
Reel Mckoi
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"hotpepper" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for your reply, your pond pics look fantastic - if only I had
the space. I think with hindsight I would have drainded and cleaned it
but wasnt really sure. I will proably wait till late spring next year
and give it a good clean out.

My local garden centre does free pond water tests so I will go down
this weekend with my sample :-)


## Excellent.

I was hoping that the Orfes would keep the numbers down but I will
watch out if the numbers start racking up. I'm sure I can find people
to take them in my local area if the numbers get to much and will
reduce further as they get bigger.


## Good luck there! Everyone in my area have already taken all the fish
they want or need from us. I don't know what I'm going to do with the few
hundred koi and shubunkin fry behind the house. I already sold a bunch! I
have a tentative buyer but he doesn't want them until next March. The other
day I noticed my large pond has yet another crop of koi fry!

I hope the Filtration is top of the range - I spent a small fortune on
it - it filters the entire pond every 30 mins. The Filter spec is for
1500US gallons and the pond is aprox 800 US gallons - I quoted UK
gallons before.


## It sure sounds adequate. Although koi get quite large, if you were
willing to get rid of what you have now you can keep a pair of koi in an 800
gallon pond. We favor them over the goldfish any day, and may phase out the
goldfish (Shubunkins) altogether over time.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm
Make sure of which Reel McKoi you're replying to - the TROLL from
alt.religion.jehovahs-witn is using other people's names to bypass
killfiles. There are now TWO Reel McKoi's posting here.
There is no limit to how low a religious fanatic will stoop to silence
someone or get an audience for themselves when ignored.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



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Old 13-09-2005, 06:28 PM
Cracklin'
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
hotpepper wrote:

3 - Can I keep Koi in this pond?


I think not - it's pretty shallow.

==========================
I may have given him the wrong information. I'm not familiar with the
metric system. Our 800+ pond is about 26 to 28" at the deepest point but
the koi are small, up to 12". Now I'm curious, as the berm sank on that one
as well. It may even be shallower now. :-( That's our next project -
fixing the berm on that pond. The bigger pond came out beautiful.
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

  #7   Report Post  
Old 13-09-2005, 06:52 PM
hotpepper
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hmmm...I'm getting more hooked by the minute :-) Having read your
replies I am starting to thing about draining the pond and giving it a
once over...I have a free weekend this week so why not. I would be
good to know whats under there, the water is pretty clear now and there
appear to be some nicstuff under there. It would be good to sort it
out and arrange everything as I want.

Any advice before I get stuck in?

I would like to keep Koi but by the sounds of it I need a bigger pond.
By gardern which is 100' X 25' is big by London standards by probaby
not big enough to allow for a pond big enough for Koi + my better hald
wants a new kitchen...priorities

  #8   Report Post  
Old 13-09-2005, 08:22 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Posts: n/a
Default

hotpepper wrote:

Hmmm...I'm getting more hooked by the minute :-) Having read your
replies I am starting to thing about draining the pond and giving it a
once over...I have a free weekend this week so why not. I would be
good to know whats under there, the water is pretty clear now and there
appear to be some nicstuff under there. It would be good to sort it
out and arrange everything as I want.

Any advice before I get stuck in?

I would like to keep Koi but by the sounds of it I need a bigger pond.
By gardern which is 100' X 25' is big by London standards by probaby
not big enough to allow for a pond big enough for Koi + my better hald
wants a new kitchen...priorities


It's not a _lot_ too small, but koi get pretty big. But really, I felt that
you could keep them in that width & length, but they really like to be able
to go deeper. In a 2' (for the metrically challenged) deep pond (at least
you don't have the freezing issue) they may always be a bit skittish.
--
derek
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Old 13-09-2005, 10:15 PM
Reel Mckoi
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"hotpepper" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hmmm...I'm getting more hooked by the minute :-) Having read your
replies I am starting to thing about draining the pond and giving it a
once over...


$$ When we do ours we use a shop vac to get that last few drops of scuzz
from the bottom, hose (but not scrub) the sides and suck that out. Then we
refill it and turn the pumps on to start removing the chlorine by agitation.
As that's happening we return the plants - only the BEST ones. The next
morning I return the fish to the pond. That's how we usually do it. I wish
you could see how beautiful the 2000 gallon pond came out. We redid the
plant shelves and just gave it a complete work-over.

I have a free weekend this week so why not. I would be
good to know whats under there, the water is pretty clear now and there
appear to be some nicstuff under there. It would be good to sort it
out and arrange everything as I want.


$$ Exactly. Those dime store Kiddy pools are excellent to hold the fish
while you're doing that. Keep their water aerated and check for ammonia -
keep their plants with them to minimize stress and for the nitrifying
bacteria all over them.

Any advice before I get stuck in?


Fill the kiddy pools with about 3/4s water from your pond and 1/4 or so
fresh water and have at it! :-)

I would like to keep Koi but by the sounds of it I need a bigger pond.


$$ Actually you do. And koi can be hard on plants.

By gardern which is 100' X 25' is big by London standards by probaby
not big enough to allow for a pond big enough for Koi + my better hald
wants a new kitchen...priorities


$ I understand. ;-)
--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/cuq5b
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm

  #10   Report Post  
Old 13-09-2005, 11:10 PM
pondmeister
 
Posts: n/a
Default

hotpepper wrote:

I inherited a pond about 2 years ago in my new house in the south of
England and although it was a nice feature I ignored it until very
recently.



You seem new here. Let me update you. Reel Mckoi is a visicious Off-Topic
spammer that brought decay and destruction to rec.ponds

The rec.ponds regulars have decided to treat as an outcast. This means
that no one replies to her. She also goes by Cracklin\' and she has a
tendancy the nym-shift and use remailers to attack her nemesis from this
group.

Here is an example on her attack on rec.pond regulars:

\"kathy\" wrote in message
...
In article
(Zod) wrote: ---- SLASH



Here is a known usenet psychopath pampered and fed by rec.pond\'s
most clueless.

=====================
Yep! You got that right. They killed their own NG(rec.pond) by feeding
and
encouraging Usenet\'s worst troll who hides behind his quasi-religious
book
publishing company, the Watchtower Inc. Not one of them bothered to
dumpster-dive Jabriol/Antonio L. Santana. He even threatened them, warned
them - and they continued to dance while Rome burned.....

--
McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm



As you can see her purpose is not to talk about ponds at all.
She will be nice to you at the start, then she will turn against you.

You have been warned.



*** Sent From/Enviado desde: http://groups.expo.st ***




  #11   Report Post  
Old 14-09-2005, 12:24 AM
~ jan JJsPond.us
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 13 Sep 2005 10:52:05 -0700, "hotpepper" wrote:

Hmmm...I'm getting more hooked by the minute :-) Having read your
replies I am starting to thing about draining the pond and giving it a
once over...I have a free weekend this week so why not. I would be
good to know whats under there, the water is pretty clear now and there
appear to be some nicstuff under there. It would be good to sort it
out and arrange everything as I want.


I think you did quite well starting out. If you do decide to totally clean
it, save as much as the old water as you can. When you take the sample to
the store, if they say, it's great. I wouldn't clean it. Especially with it
clearing so you can see the bottom.

Only thing I would recommend is pick up your own test kits for Ammonia,
Nitrite, pH, KH & a Thermometer.

As far as the fish, sounds to me like you've got great filtration to handle
the load. Though I wouldn't add koi unless you plan to start digging a
bigger pond real soon.

Feed the goldfish sparingly, that will hold down the population.

I would like to keep Koi but by the sounds of it I need a bigger pond.
By gardern which is 100' X 25' is big by London standards by probaby
not big enough to allow for a pond big enough for Koi + my better hald
wants a new kitchen...priorities.


Let's see, who needs lawn or terrestrial plants? Koi pond 50 X 20 works for
me. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

  #12   Report Post  
Old 14-09-2005, 02:22 AM
Zod
 
Posts: n/a
Default

look a carol sovk puppet
Ronn wrote:
"pondmeister" wrote in message
o.st...

You seem new here. Let me update you. Reel Mckoi is a visicious
Off-Topic
spammer that brought decay and destruction to rec.ponds

/FLUSH!

Your hysterical semi~literate message is completely off topic,
inflammatory, self serving, petty, a waste of bandwidth and
you're trolling rec.ponds. You're adding to the problem you
claimed you wanted to end.


  #13   Report Post  
Old 14-09-2005, 02:24 AM
~Roy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Whats a matter Ron or is it Ronn like you nym shifted to today to
bypass anyone that may have made a filter for you, can;t you handle
the truth.....Pondmeister stated the facts and only the
facts.......YOu and Carol both need to pass go and not collect the
$200 and go straight for some help in dealing with your mental
capacity and outlook in life...........The folks here can easily see
though your facade of bullshit.

On 14 Sep 2005 01:07:03 -0000, er
(Ronn) wrote:

==="pondmeister" wrote in message
===news:[email protected] ps.expo.st...
===
===You seem new here. Let me update you. Reel Mckoi is a visicious
===Off-Topic
===spammer that brought decay and destruction to rec.ponds
===
===/FLUSH!
===
===Your hysterical semi~literate message is completely off topic,
===inflammatory, self serving, petty, a waste of bandwidth and
===you're trolling rec.ponds. You're adding to the problem you
===claimed you wanted to end.
===



==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o
  #14   Report Post  
Old 14-09-2005, 02:28 AM
~Roy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 13 Sep 2005 18:22:47 -0700, "Zod" wrote:

===look a carol sovk puppet
===Ronn wrote:
=== "pondmeister" wrote in message
=== o.st...
===
=== You seem new here. Let me update you. Reel Mckoi is a visicious
=== Off-Topic
=== spammer that brought decay and destruction to rec.ponds
===
=== /FLUSH!
===
=== Your hysterical semi~literate message is completely off topic,
=== inflammatory, self serving, petty, a waste of bandwidth and
=== you're trolling rec.ponds. You're adding to the problem you
=== claimed you wanted to end.



==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o
  #15   Report Post  
Old 14-09-2005, 02:30 AM
~Roy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You noticed that too huh Zod.........Ron (n) a Carol sock
puppet.......Lets have a drink to Pondmeisters view o9f Reel Mckoi aka
Carol...............as he sort of hits it right on the head......

On 13 Sep 2005 18:22:47 -0700, "Zod" wrote:

===look a carol sovk puppet
===Ronn wrote:
=== "pondmeister" wrote in message
=== o.st...
===
=== You seem new here. Let me update you. Reel Mckoi is a visicious
=== Off-Topic
=== spammer that brought decay and destruction to rec.ponds
===
=== /FLUSH!
===
=== Your hysterical semi~literate message is completely off topic,
=== inflammatory, self serving, petty, a waste of bandwidth and
=== you're trolling rec.ponds. You're adding to the problem you
=== claimed you wanted to end.



==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o


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