thank you, thank you. and now we got pillows of moss growing around the waterfall.
is very nice. and the tall bunches of cyperus made it thru the winter in the
basement so spring is going to look better than in years past. Ingrid

~ janj wrote:

Texas dawn is huge. http://weloveteaching.com/mypond/7-15-2003f.jpg
it covers most of 1/2 of the pond. it sits on a ledge. Ingrid

Absolutely gorgeous picture. The water, the weathered the wood, the
greenery/flowers, really cool. Reminds me of being on a dock (weathered
wood) on the lake I grew up by. I was involved with "fish"ing then too.
~ jan


~ jan/WA
Zone 7a



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

CanadianCowboy© wrote:

I may try this but I did have trouble with fish nibbling at the roots of
my hyacinth which allowed them to go yellow and eventually die.
How do I stop this? I feed the fish everyday during the summer months .

Feed more often. Many books recommend 2x day. 3x wouldn't hurt IMHO.

"Koi-Lo" writes:

Thanks. It's the *micronutrients* I can't locate such as water soluble
iron, manganese, boron, cobalt etc. that plants need. I'll check this place
out.

I've used a product that is intended to provide trace elements for citrus,
"Citrus Growers Mix" or something like that. All chelated minerals. Water
soluble.

HTH

thank you, thank you. and now we got pillows of moss growing around the waterfall.
is very nice. and the tall bunches of cyperus made it thru the winter in the
basement so spring is going to look better than in years past. Ingrid

Speaking of moss, my little ferny moss that grows in the stream did really
well over winter. I guess it needs just a little moisture to keep it alive.
Last year, where it didn't get hardly any moisture it died. I put more in
that area, and it is still green this spring. ~ jan


~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
"Koi-Lo" writes:

Thanks. It's the *micronutrients* I can't locate such as water soluble
iron, manganese, boron, cobalt etc. that plants need. I'll check this
place
out.

I've used a product that is intended to provide trace elements for citrus,
"Citrus Growers Mix" or something like that. All chelated minerals. Water
soluble.

HTH
===========================
Yes, that's what I need. There's a huge Nursery and Greenhouse in my area.
I think before getting it on the net and having to pay S&H charges (which
can be 1/2 the cost of the product) I will see if they can order me
something like that. I need to talk to the owner instead of the gal at the
register. Mennonites run the place and I know they grow much of their own
food outside the city.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58

~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

In article ,
~ janj wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:27:29 +0000 (UTC), (Richard
Sexton) wrote:

Geez Ingrid is everything you post wrong?

In "Encyclopedia of the water lily" by Charles O Masters
it's suggested you use manure,

Yeee-ow, you use manure, you get green pond. Been there, done that. My
ponds were ready for St. Pat's day that year. I'd only redone 2 pots,
pulled them out, used my unadulterated sandy soil, clear pond in 2 days,
thanks to a good filter. ~ jan ;o)

You seal it with fine beach sand. I use it in aquariums.

http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/

This tank has had manure under the 3" of beach sand for 7 years.

Some poeple get green water without manure, but it's possible to
use it and not have green water.

The net is great and all but books are still good. Masters book has
lots of pictutes of great and clear ponds with manute in the lily
pots.



--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

In article ,
Derek Broughton wrote:
You don't. I probably wouldn't do that in a little barrel either.
Bare-root planting is for ponds with healthy fish populations. The fish
produce the fertilizer, and the plants get it more easily if they're not
in soil.

State of the art 1904 thinking. Innes would agree with you. But we've
come a long way since then and proper plant nutrition needs much much more
tha fish waste. They will *grow* to be sure, but they will grow much much
better with proper food.

Oh, crap (literally).

Your opinion, while interesting, has been disproved. In the past fifteen
years we've figured out how to make those heavily planted crystal clear
tanks full of fast growing plants like only the dutch used to do. IN
a nutshell what was missing was the things NOT in fish poop. Innes also
contended "fish fertilize plants" and ferilization was "a noble but
foolish experiment". He was wrong, as we've learned, but he did write that
in the 1899-1904 timeframe when he wrote his pond and then aquarium book.

I had a not very heavily populated 5000 gallon pond.
My deep lilies would, every year, develop sufficient foliage to lift the
tubers a foot or two off the bottom of the pond. We're talking about 18"
or longer tubers, with 100sq.ft. of pads, and dozens of blooms. If I could
have made them grow better with "food" I'd have to have been nuts to do it!

Ok, so you think you're nuts, but the point still stands. With proper
feeding they'll do *better*.

Do you actually have a pond Richard? I _know_ you're an aquarium expert,
but I seriously doubt your pond experience. Compost is NOT a good idea for
a planted _fish_ pond.

I wrote about my pond in some back issue of TFH a few years back. I Was thinking
of doing a few more which is why I'm here.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

While fish _will_ nibble the roots of W.Hyacinth, are you sure that was the
cause? Hyacinths often fail to thrive when there's a potassium (iirc - I
always get my potassium/phosphorus mixed up) deficiency. They go yellow,
_then_ they lose their roots.
How do I stop this? I feed the fish everyday during the summer months .

If it is the fish, netting around the roots helps.

I didn't add any fertilizer to the pond for the hyacinth. It was my
first year last year with these plants. Should I give them any
treatment other than throwing them in.

Get then to a hydroponics.com franchise. Use potassium sulphate
or potassium nitrate (if you're nitrates are low). And use the
iron+trace mix. These are whan you're deficient in.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:
I add about 2 heaping Tbs. Potassium (for gardens) when I add the floating
plants. That's the ONLY fertilizer I add to the pond water. Koi will still
nibble the roots to the point where my water hyacinth doesn't thrive.

You're low on iron (+traces).

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:
Do you know a good online place to buy hydroponic fertilizers? I can't find
anywhere local that sells the stuff.

http://gregwatson.com

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:
Thanks. It's the *micronutrients* I can't locate such as water soluble
iron, manganese, boron, cobalt etc. that plants need. I'll check this place
out.

Iron+traces is always found that way. You don't dose them individually.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

In article ,
~ janj wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:16:24 -0500, CanadianCowboy©
wrote:

I didn't add any fertilizer to the pond for the hyacinth. It was my
first year last year with these plants. Should I give them any
treatment other than throwing them in.

Thanks in advance !

Before throwing any fertilizer in, check your pH. If the pH is too high or
low, you can throw all the fert. you want in, and the plant will still fail
to thrive. ~ jan

News to me. I've not noticed any problem with a pH bewteen 4.5 and 9.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

In article ,
~ janj wrote:
Fixing a pH problem is on a case by case basis, but to raise pH, baking
soda works great, plus it adds buffering. To lower pH is a touchier subject
and I won't address it at this time, questions need to be asked an answered
before preceding with lowering one's pH. ~ jan )

Too high a pH isn't really a problem. Plants will lower it just by growing
through biogenic decalcification. Old water gets more acid with just fish
in it too. Loweing pH is not the wisest thinf to do and commercial fish
products to do this have nasty side effects.

Vinegar can be used, as can nitric or hydrochloric acid. DO NOT do this
lightly or without fully understanding what you're doing.

It's all good till somebody loses an eye.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 (Richard Sexton) wrote:

News to me. I've not noticed any problem with a pH bewteen 4.5 and 9.

I didn't mean to imply they would die, the normal visual affect for most
plants is just a slow down in growth, (light bulb moment?) making one think
they need more fertilizer.

IME, an according to the Master Gardener information we're given through
the local University, pH is important. In the case of water hyacinth
especially, I've seen it die when pH hit 8.5 and up. Other plants in the
same pond, slow down. Fix the pH and things turn right around.

Regarding lowering pH information. I don't give out that info till I know
what's in the pond, what the pond is made of and several other bits of
info. Handing out that information tends to make people think they can now
"fix it". When there may be no reason to fix anything. ;o) ~ jan

--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:
Thanks. It's the *micronutrients* I can't locate such as water soluble
iron, manganese, boron, cobalt etc. that plants need. I'll check this
place
out.

Iron+traces is always found that way. You don't dose them individually.
=================
I didn't plan to do it individually. I wouldn't know how much of each to
add. I was hoping to find them in a form I could just add to water and use,
like those houseplant fertilizers I have for my houseplants. I wanted the
person to know what I was looking for.........
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o