Hello everyone,

My fiancee and I made the mistake of "wanting a pond and wanting it
now" and ran out and bought a pre-formed liner, pump, and biological
filter/waterfall and four koi fish. I dug the hole and we set the
whole thing up.

The big problem is.... we were dumb and rushed into it. And
immediately we began to run into problems. WIthin a week after setting
up our 125 gallon pond, we wanted it bigger. This is mostly for the
kois sake after we read that one full grown koi needs as much as 300
gallons of water. We have one 8 inch koi, and three 4 inch koi.

Ammonia levels quickly rose along with the nitrite. The ammonia levels
are now under control and reading zero. The pond has been "cycling"
for 2 weeks now. But the nitrite levels are still out of control.
For the past 3 days I have been doing 15% water changes, to no avail.
Today I checked the levels and they are 1.0 mg/L. Even higher than
yesterdays reading. I did a 50% water change and they are down to 0.3
mg/L.

Today I have also noticed that two out of the four koi are scratching
themselves on the pump and plant baskets.

Here are my questions,

Are there any other strategies to reduce the nitrite levels other than
being patient? Enough bacteria has been added.... I used this really
expensive "Microbial Lift" stuff from the fish shop. The guy there
said I was doing everything right in the meantime.

Should I be concerned about the fish scratching themselves today?
Could this be caused by the nitrite levels?

I really want my koi fish to make it through until next year when we
can do things right. They were expensive and I would hate to lose
them.

Thanks for any advice!

Kelly

"Kelly" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello everyone,

My fiancee and I made the mistake of "wanting a pond and wanting it
now" and ran out and bought a pre-formed liner, pump, and biological
filter/waterfall and four koi fish. I dug the hole and we set the
whole thing up.

The big problem is.... we were dumb and rushed into it. And
immediately we began to run into problems. WIthin a week after setting
up our 125 gallon pond, we wanted it bigger. This is mostly for the
kois sake after we read that one full grown koi needs as much as 300
gallons of water. We have one 8 inch koi, and three 4 inch koi.

You have too many fish in such a small body of water. The shop keeper
should have told you this before selling you koi.

Ammonia levels quickly rose along with the nitrite. The ammonia levels
are now under control and reading zero. The pond has been "cycling"
for 2 weeks now. But the nitrite levels are still out of control.
For the past 3 days I have been doing 15% water changes, to no avail.
Today I checked the levels and they are 1.0 mg/L. Even higher than
yesterdays reading. I did a 50% water change and they are down to 0.3
mg/L.

Please reconsider and trade the koi for a few goldfish.

Today I have also noticed that two out of the four koi are scratching
themselves on the pump and plant baskets.

Parasites most likely.......

Here are my questions,
Are there any other strategies to reduce the nitrite levels other than
being patient? Enough bacteria has been added.... I used this really
expensive "Microbial Lift" stuff from the fish shop. The guy there
said I was doing everything right in the meantime.

Microbial Lift for cycling? The people here recommend BioSpira. You may
want to try a different shop. What kind of filter are you using for this
small pond?

Should I be concerned about the fish scratching themselves today?
Could this be caused by the nitrite levels?

You can Google pond+cycling and parasites. It would save people a lot of
typing.

I really want my koi fish to make it through until next year when we
can do things right. They were expensive and I would hate to lose
them.

Thanks for any advice!

Kelly

--

Y'all all ****ed up big time, and if you listen to any advice you get
in this or any other usenet forum your ****ing up even more.......

On Tue, 30 May 2006 20:16:48 -0500, "Cathy Lee"
wrote:

"Kelly" wrote in message
legroups.com...
Hello everyone,

My fiancee and I made the mistake of "wanting a pond and wanting it
now" and ran out and bought a pre-formed liner, pump, and biological
filter/waterfall and four koi fish. I dug the hole and we set the
whole thing up.

The big problem is.... we were dumb and rushed into it.

So your all a bunch of dumb ****s! Just like Carol and a few others in
these groups.
And
immediately we began to run into problems. WIthin a week after setting
up our 125 gallon pond, we wanted it bigger. This is mostly for the
kois sake after we read that one full grown koi needs as much as 300
gallons of water. We have one 8 inch koi, and three 4 inch koi.

Sandwhich size, and they are tasty if grilled and rubbed with garlic
and lemon

You have too many fish in such a small body of water. The shop keeper
should have told you this before selling you koi.

Why would a shop keeper telyou jack shit, they make money off assholes
and impulse buyers like you all aare...They seen a pair of dumbasses
coming..........

Ammonia levels quickly rose along with the nitrite. The ammonia levels
are now under control and reading zero. The pond has been "cycling"
for 2 weeks now. But the nitrite levels are still out of control.
For the past 3 days I have been doing 15% water changes, to no avail.
Today I checked the levels and they are 1.0 mg/L. Even higher than
yesterdays reading.
And I w9onder why ..hm, maybe a new method of cycling........uyour
trying to invent......dumbasses

I did a 50% water change and they are down to 0.3
mg/L.



Today I have also noticed that two out of the four koi are scratching
themselves on the pump and plant baskets.

Probbaly ammonia burn or the crabs, as crabs itch like hell,,,,,Ask
CArol Gulley, how bad crabs (crotch crickets) itch.

Parasites most likely.......yea crabs or crotch crickets

Here are my questions,
Are there any other strategies to reduce the nitrite levels other than
being patient? Enough bacteria has been added.... I used this really
expensive "Microbial Lift" stuff from the fish shop. The guy there
said I was doing everything right in the meantime.

A day late and a dollar short....hopefully your not of the profession
that is in health care

Microbial Lift for cycling? The people here recommend BioSpira. You may
want to try a different shop. What kind of filter are you using for this
small pond?

Sure spend that money and listen to a lfs that ****ed you to begin
with, They love folks like you......easy toget money off of, and
always have a reason why "YOU" ****ed up.

Should I be concerned about the fish scratching themselves today?
Could this be caused by the nitrite levels?

Naw, just dump a container of Gold BOnd crab powder in the pond, they
wil be fine.
You can Google pond+cycling and parasites. It would save people a lot of
typing.


Evidently CAthy Lee is too ****ing tires to reply but wants to see her
name posted out there in a dead or dying group like Rec.ponds is.

I really want my koi fish to make it through until next year when we
can do things right. They were expensive and I would hate to lose
them.

Yea, then yu can graduate to a 160 gal preform pond and a 325 gph
Little giant pump and buy some 24 inch koi and add a half dozen
goldfish as well.

Thanks for any advice!

You'll get the ****ing bill trust me, its alreadyin the mail. This
group belongs to CArol Gulley of Mt. Juliet, TN and she says its a
money maker espeically when she harvests email addresses off it and
the other aquaria groups she owns or trashed.

Kelly

Cathy Lee wrote:


You have too many fish in such a small body of water. The shop keeper
should have told you this before selling you koi.

Yes, I know this. But we won't be able to upgrade until next year.
What I am asking is, how can I make this work in the meantime?????



Please reconsider and trade the koi for a few goldfish.

You can't just "trade in" $80.00 worth of fish. Again, advice to make
this work until next year would be appreciated.




Microbial Lift for cycling? The people here recommend BioSpira. You may
want to try a different shop. What kind of filter are you using for this
small pond?

It is a large biological filter (good for up to 500 gallons) that's
bottom fed by the pump and then the water flows out the top by
waterfall. The substrate is lava rock.


Should I be concerned about the fish scratching themselves today?
Could this be caused by the nitrite levels?

You can Google pond+cycling and parasites. It would save people a lot of
typing.

Gee thanks for the tip, I've already done that. I wanted specific
advice for my personal situation and that's why I came here.
Evidently, this was a mistake. I don't see very many helpful people
around here. Just a bunch of trolls. Newsgroups have really gone
downhill over the years.

Thanks anyway.

Kelly

Today I have also noticed that two out of the four koi are scratching
themselves on the pump and plant baskets.

Parasites most likely.......

Possibly, but nitrites can also cause flashing/scratching.

Here are my questions,
Are there any other strategies to reduce the nitrite levels other than
being patient? Enough bacteria has been added.... I used this really
expensive "Microbial Lift" stuff from the fish shop. The guy there
said I was doing everything right in the meantime.

You should put some salt in so the nitrite doesn't cause brown blood
disease. About 1 lb of kosher salt (no anti-caking additives or iodine)
should do it. This will also ease the flashing (if due to nitrite). ~ jan
--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

*Note: There are two *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups

"Kelly" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello everyone,

My fiancee and I made the mistake of "wanting a pond and wanting it
now" and ran out and bought a pre-formed liner, pump, and biological
filter/waterfall and four koi fish. I dug the hole and we set the
whole thing up.

The big problem is.... we were dumb and rushed into it. And
immediately we began to run into problems. WIthin a week after setting
up our 125 gallon pond, we wanted it bigger. This is mostly for the
kois sake after we read that one full grown koi needs as much as 300
gallons of water. We have one 8 inch koi, and three 4 inch koi.

Ammonia levels quickly rose along with the nitrite. The ammonia levels
are now under control and reading zero. The pond has been "cycling"
for 2 weeks now. But the nitrite levels are still out of control.
For the past 3 days I have been doing 15% water changes, to no avail.
Today I checked the levels and they are 1.0 mg/L. Even higher than
yesterdays reading. I did a 50% water change and they are down to 0.3
mg/L.

I would keep doing the partial water changes until the cycle finishes. Feed
them lightly and keep checking the water parameters.

Today I have also noticed that two out of the four koi are scratching
themselves on the pump and plant baskets.

Parasites or something in the water.

Here are my questions,

Are there any other strategies to reduce the nitrite levels other than
being patient? Enough bacteria has been added.... I used this really
expensive "Microbial Lift" stuff from the fish shop. The guy there
said I was doing everything right in the meantime.

Should I be concerned about the fish scratching themselves today?
Could this be caused by the nitrite levels?

I've never seen it happen with my koi and GF but others claim it can cause
scratching.

I really want my koi fish to make it through until next year when we
can do things right. They were expensive and I would hate to lose
them.

Keep up the partial water changes and feed lightly. If they keep scratching
I would think parasites.

Thanks for any advice!

Kelly

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
Rude or obscene messages posted by my impersonator.
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

*Note: There are two *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups

"Kelly" wrote in message
ups.com...

Cathy Lee wrote:


You have too many fish in such a small body of water. The shop keeper
should have told you this before selling you koi.

Yes, I know this. But we won't be able to upgrade until next year.
What I am asking is, how can I make this work in the meantime?????

Yes, with a lot of partial water changes and good filtration and aeration.
:-)

You can't just "trade in" $80.00 worth of fish. Again, advice to make
this work until next year would be appreciated.

It is a large biological filter (good for up to 500 gallons) that's
bottom fed by the pump and then the water flows out the top by
waterfall. The substrate is lava rock.

Sounds adaquate.

Should I be concerned about the fish scratching themselves today?
Could this be caused by the nitrite levels?

Some people claim so but I haven't seen mine scratch when a tank or pool was
cycling. Only when there were parasites.

You can Google pond+cycling and parasites. It would save people a lot of
typing.

Gee thanks for the tip, I've already done that. I wanted specific
advice for my personal situation and that's why I came here.
Evidently, this was a mistake. I don't see very many helpful people
around here. Just a bunch of trolls. Newsgroups have really gone
downhill over the years.

Yes, they have. That's because ISPs don't enforce their abuse rules
anymore, so Usenet is slowly becoming Uselessnet sad to say.

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Rude or obscene messages posted by my impersonator.
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Your well advised not to pay any attention to Koi Lo as she is nothing
but the main problem why there is so little content or help onthis and
other groups. Koi lo aka Carol Gulley is a problematic slanderous old
lady with a thorn up her backside...and actually despises anyone that
has anythng thing more than she has.....

Listen to Janj, steer clear of Koi Lo and her numerous nyms, like
Cathy Lee, Charlie etc etc etc.

Oh she is well know at harvesting emails from these groups and selling
them to spammers, and odds are she ahs already harvested yours so yu
could now be on the receiving end of tons fo spam and subscriptions to
various x rated stuff....

On 31 May 2006 04:12:05 -0700, "Kelly"
wrote:

xxxxxx wrote:

Keep up the partial water changes and feed lightly. If they keep scratching
I would think parasites.

Thank you for your helpful reply. I appreciate that.

I did catch my 8 inch koi to take a look at her, and there were no
obvious lesions or visible parasites on her body. Here's hoping....

Kelly

On 30 May 2006 17:35:51 -0700, "Kelly"
wrote:

I really want my koi fish to make it through until next year when we
can do things right. They were expensive and I would hate to lose
them.

Jan's suggestion of salt is a good one.

Is there a possibility of setting up a kiddies pool next to the pond
and diverting the flow from the waterfall into it and then into the
pond? The kiddies pool would give you a place to add lots of plants
that remove nitrates from the water.

Regards,

Hal

Just dumpt the ****ing things, they are too god damed cheap to but
than **** arund with water changes and buy8ing a kiddie pool and all
the other ****ing crap. Dump the bitches and buy sopme more ifyu want
them. OIrts even cheaper to dump em than feed em.....they can go an
entire summer easily withut buying them any food, then toss em on the
compost pile in the winter, or watch em freeze into the ice.or go
spend $$$$$$ on a heater and shelter for the pond,,,,,fish are such a
****ing waste. Just like CArol and a a few of her friends.......

On Wed, 31 May 2006 09:43:09 -0400, Hal wrote:
On 30 May 2006 17:35:51 -0700, "Kelly"
wrote:

I really want my koi fish to make it through until next year when we
can do things right. They were expensive and I would hate to lose
them.

Jan's suggestion of salt is a good one.

Is there a possibility of setting up a kiddies pool next to the pond
and diverting the flow from the waterfall into it and then into the
pond? The kiddies pool would give you a place to add lots of plants
that remove nitrates from the water.

Regards,

Hal

*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.

"Hal" wrote in message
...
On 30 May 2006 17:35:51 -0700, "Kelly"
wrote:

I really want my koi fish to make it through until next year when we
can do things right. They were expensive and I would hate to lose
them.

Jan's suggestion of salt is a good one.

Is there a possibility of setting up a kiddies pool next to the pond
and diverting the flow from the waterfall into it and then into the
pond? The kiddies pool would give you a place to add lots of plants
that remove nitrates from the water.

Regards,

Hal
============================
This is an excellent idea if they have the space. These pools are only $10
and last for a at least a year. That would give them time to dig their
larger pond and get a good size bunch of plants going. The scratching would
have me concerned. Since losing almost every koi I had to ulcer disease a
few years back, I'm a bit paranoid about parasites now.....
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
rec.pond's FAQ are at:
http://www.geocities.com/justinm090/faq.html
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

I did catch my 8 inch koi to take a look at her, and there were no
obvious lesions or visible parasites on her body. Here's hoping....

Kelly

It takes a microscope to see most of the koi parasites, and even than some
are so tiny that you've got to know what you're doing and what you're
looking for. I think you're just suffering new-pond-cycle syndrome.

I liked Hal's idea with the kiddy pool + plants. Any possible way you could
do that?

Keep us posted, and don't mind the resident troll, use your killfilters.
~ jan
--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Not if your name is CArol Gulley. She don't need any stinking scope to
see the sites onher fish. Scopes are for common folks not gurus like
her..........
Yea, kill file me, Koi-Lo, Charlie, Cathy Lee, I have a heap of nyms I
use to evade dumbasses.........

Regards

carol aka koi lo


On Wed, 31 May 2006 07:28:48 -0700, ~ janj
wrote:
I did catch my 8 inch koi to take a look at her, and there were no
obvious lesions or visible parasites on her body. Here's hoping....

Kelly

It takes a microscope to see most of the koi parasites, and even than some
are so tiny that you've got to know what you're doing and what you're
looking for. I think you're just suffering new-pond-cycle syndrome.

I liked Hal's idea with the kiddy pool + plants. Any possible way you could
do that?

Keep us posted, and don't mind the resident troll, use your killfilters.
~ jan
--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

In article . com,
Kelly wrote:

Koi-Lo wrote:

Keep up the partial water changes and feed lightly. If they keep scratching
I would think parasites.

Thank you for your helpful reply. I appreciate that.

I did catch my 8 inch koi to take a look at her, and there were no
obvious lesions or visible parasites on her body. Here's hoping....

Its doubtful that you can see'm.

Treat w/ Dyacide, used for years and years and with a 'half-life' of
about 3 days its a ideal med.

The stress from the water quality needs to be addressed, after the
dyacide treatment... consider a bacteria product like Marc Weiss
'bacter vital'

jay
Wed May 31, 2006



jay
Wed May 31, 2006



Kelly

*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.

"Kelly" wrote in message
oups.com...

The problem I have is nitrite.... not nitrate as Hal said.

That will diminish as you pond finishes cycling. Keep it under control with
those partial water changes. Adding salt may help as Jan suggested, but
some plants resent salt and turn yellow, so be careful.

I have the top of the biological filter/waterfall planted full of
plants. I also have two baskets of plants in the pond. I also have
oxygenators in the bottom of the pond. These include:

Pennywort
Water hyacinth
Water Parsley
Water mint
Ogon Sweetflag

and a few others I forget the names of!

That's good. Remember to give them some extra potash (potassium) as your
fish wont supply that. I get it at a Nursery in a nearby town.

I also have something else today that has complicated my situation.

My largest koi is apparently female because there are thousands of eggs
suddenly covering the sides and plants of my
pond!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do I get rid of them?

They'll eat most of them. Are you sure they're koi eggs and not newt, frog
or toad eggs? :-)

I tried scraping them off but this just makes a mess, and I don't want
to ruin the water any more. The eggs are REALLY stuck on the sides and
are hard to come off. Should I just leave them?

Koi eggs should come off rather easily. I'm surprised they didn't eat all
those you can see. They may not be koi eggs. Your koi are awfully small to
be breeding. Maybe someone else can suggest how you can handle these eggs.

I don't know if my other fish are old enough to fertilize. They are
only 4 inches long.

I doubt the eggs were fertilized. They'll turn white and disintegrate (if
koi eggs). Did you see breeding activity?

HELP!

--
Koi-Lo....
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*