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Old 27-12-2006, 06:10 PM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi

in it and doing just fine......thank you!


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
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Old 29-12-2006, 03:48 AM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi

I take it they are in your big pond.

Will you be breeding them or selling them? Will you be feeding them or
letting them forage?

What size are they? How muddy is the water?

Jim


Tristan wrote:
in it and doing just fine......thank you!


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!


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Old 29-12-2006, 04:04 PM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi


I'll have you know I do not breed fish like some fools here probably
do. However I will breed a good looking woman in a heart bveat and let
the fishes do their own screwing.
You sound like a pervert to me, breeding fish!.
sheeeesh

On 28 Dec 2006 18:48:49 -0800, "Phyllis and Jim"
wrote:

I take it they are in your big pond.

Will you be breeding them or selling them? Will you be feeding them or
letting them forage?

What size are they? How muddy is the water?

Jim


Tristan wrote:
in it and doing just fine......thank you!


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
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Old 29-12-2006, 05:56 PM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi


"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
I take it they are in your big pond.

Will you be breeding them or selling them? Will you be feeding them or
letting them forage?

What size are they? How muddy is the water?

Jim


Tristan wrote:
in it and doing just fine......thank you!


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!



you people keep on feeding the trol.


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Old 29-12-2006, 08:20 PM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi


The mods are on call and chomping at the bit to be of service to
anyone ..so they even reply to posts they have no real interest
n....Although some of them have a OCD syndrome and can not help
hitting the reply button...they just have to see their name appear on
the internet or they simply have a melt down. I hear some of them
even use USENET as a reference n their resume' ...along the lines they
provide technical assistence to fish and pond folks!


On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:56:36 -0600, "JohnS" wrote:


"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
legroups.com...
I take it they are in your big pond.

Will you be breeding them or selling them? Will you be feeding them or
letting them forage?

What size are they? How muddy is the water?

Jim


Tristan wrote:
in it and doing just fine......thank you!


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!


you people keep on feeding the trol.




-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!


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Old 21-01-2007, 10:12 PM posted to rec.ponds
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Posts: 514
Default And the pond now has 500+ koi



I usre am not into breeding koi.....I have enbough to do with the
tropicals I breed and sell. What happens with the koi happens with
them. I intend to use large mnouth bass as a means of control to keep
from getting over run. The bass can eat the koi just as easy as they
can catch and eat bream......plus we also BBQ koi on the grill from
time to time, and its actually better than bream or bass is, and gives
catfish a run for the money as well.

All have been between 6 and 10 inches in length, and were raised at
the local Koi farm near Opp Alabama on the Pea River. They even threw
in a bunch of extra and wound up with approx 700 or so, and some of
those were quite larghe (12-18 inch size.) All given a once over as
they were acclimated form the farm water in my concrete burial vault
tanks I use for rearing up catfish and as QT tanks. ONce they wewre
acclimated they were netted and released in the pond. Muddying the
water has never been a problem with my other two ponds which also have
lots of koi in them, and this is mainly due to their depth.

Pond is stil too new to let them forage as there is not enough natural
stuff there, but I usually always and intend to feed just the same. I
get feed at a local feed mill that mimicks Rangen Koi food and its
less than $8 for a 50# bag.......certainly better than not feeding or
feeding them catfish food or worse yet Special Kitty cat food as some
do. Its actual ornamental pond fish food for gf and koi without the
huge mark up.


On 28 Dec 2006 18:48:49 -0800, "Phyllis and Jim"
wrote:

I take it they are in your big pond.

Will you be breeding them or selling them? Will you be feeding them or
letting them forage?

What size are they? How muddy is the water?

Jim


Tristan wrote:
in it and doing just fine......thank you!


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
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Old 21-01-2007, 10:54 PM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi

Tristan wrote:

I usre am not into breeding koi.....I have enbough to do with the
tropicals I breed and sell. What happens with the koi happens with
them. I intend to use large mnouth bass as a means of control to keep
from getting over run. The bass can eat the koi just as easy as they
can catch and eat bream......plus we also BBQ koi on the grill from
time to time, and its actually better than bream or bass is, and gives
catfish a run for the money as well.


A story I once got told by a friend of mine was they had some Japanese
guests coming to stay....the Japanese culturally give gifts to those
providing hospitality and having heard that his Mother was into her Koi
they decided this would be a great gift....they presented her with two
Koi wrapped in newspaper - beheaded and gutted and ready for
cooking....every culture has its different values.....I will eat
fish....but I'm not sure I could eat Clown Loaches yet they do provide a
staple diet in some countries.....

Selling on fish can be quite an issue - IME I never got the money to
compensate even for the cost of raising the tropicals...but then I never
did it seriously....and my kicks are from actually seeing the fish
breed....but then they are pets and I'm not into a commercial
venture.....If you were into breeding Koi then the whole thing would
take on a different slant and maybe remove the joy of the hobby of
actually keeping the creatures.....



All have been between 6 and 10 inches in length, and were raised at
the local Koi farm near Opp Alabama on the Pea River. They even threw
in a bunch of extra and wound up with approx 700 or so, and some of
those were quite larghe (12-18 inch size.) All given a once over as
they were acclimated form the farm water in my concrete burial vault
tanks I use for rearing up catfish and as QT tanks. ONce they wewre
acclimated they were netted and released in the pond. Muddying the
water has never been a problem with my other two ponds which also have
lots of koi in them, and this is mainly due to their depth.


This sort of bears out what I was told when I went up to the trout
fishery up in Scotland....it is a 5 acre mud pond but goes down to over
12 foot plus.....the water is clear even though the rainbow trout kick
up quite a lot of mess.....and this is all down to scalability - now if
I was to dig a mud pond in my garden which would be just a few hundred
gallons then cloudiness would be a very big issue.....


Pond is stil too new to let them forage as there is not enough natural
stuff there, but I usually always and intend to feed just the same. I
get feed at a local feed mill that mimicks Rangen Koi food and its
less than $8 for a 50# bag.......certainly better than not feeding or
feeding them catfish food or worse yet Special Kitty cat food as some
do. Its actual ornamental pond fish food for gf and koi without the
huge mark up.


I read a real interesting article in PFK this month - it's not on their
website yet so I'm not sure I can quote but might do so anyway (all go
out and buy PFK - you can get it in the US - does this cover me????)
The gist is that live foods produce better Koi - and that a diet of live
zooplankton produce fster growing and more marketable Koi than any
commercial diets or water enrichment programs - the original article was
in the Journal of Applied Ichthyology

Gill
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Old 21-01-2007, 11:14 PM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:54:26 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:

Tristan wrote:

I usre am not into breeding koi.....I have enbough to do with the
tropicals I breed and sell. What happens with the koi happens with
them. I intend to use large mnouth bass as a means of control to keep
from getting over run. The bass can eat the koi just as easy as they
can catch and eat bream......plus we also BBQ koi on the grill from
time to time, and its actually better than bream or bass is, and gives
catfish a run for the money as well.

A story I once got told by a friend of mine was they had some Japanese
guests coming to stay....the Japanese culturally give gifts to those
providing hospitality and having heard that his Mother was into her Koi
they decided this would be a great gift....they presented her with two
Koi wrapped in newspaper - beheaded and gutted and ready for
cooking....every culture has its different values.....I will eat
fish....but I'm not sure I could eat Clown Loaches yet they do provide a
staple diet in some countries.....

Well I just got rid of a clown fish and if it wa just a tad bit bigger
it woul dhave become a fish stick a it was nothing but trouble. I do
not have any clown loaches though. I had given some thought into
making a few smaller ponds allconnected tothe larger ones that use
water piped into and flowed from the larger pond. Idea being that
serious koi folks could "rent" space in these ponds and keep their koi
in them like say over the winter. Mud ponds actually do a kois color a
justice, more than can be done in prisitine waters and adding koi
clay, which is abundant in this areas soils naturally......But being
responsible for those high dollar fish is not something I woul dlike
to take responsibility for. There is a fellow in Virginia thsat houses
and keeps high dollar koi for foks that show in a totally fenced in
and enclosed natural mud pond, and when they decide to show the fish,
he pulls the pond, gets their fish, packs it up and ships it tothe
show. After the show is over the fish gets shipped back to his mud
pond. Just too much responsibility to do that to be enjoyable, as I
am not into showing as much as just seeing mine in a natural way.
Just do not knock grilled / baked koi until you try it.

Selling on fish can be quite an issue - IME I never got the money to
compensate even for the cost of raising the tropicals...but then I never
did it seriously....and my kicks are from actually seeing the fish
breed....but then they are pets and I'm not into a commercial
venture.....If you were into breeding Koi then the whole thing would
take on a different slant and maybe remove the joy of the hobby of
actually keeping the creatures.....

Well I am not a"voyuer" of fish but with the wife and her multitude
of water featuyres that range form single 20 gal half barrels to 6
half barrels to 225 gal preforms that she has all around, and knowing
they are all to small for koi, not wanting to build a larger liner
pond tohave koi since we have large mud ponds with koi, we had
considered Goldies, but there is more money in tropicals than goldies
in this region, and considering we can keep most all tropicals in a
heavilly panated water feature outside here for about 9 months most
years its a natural thing to do. I can sell all the tropicals I can
breed. Its a lot neater IMHO to see a planted half barrel with yellow
cichlids in it or a 225 gal preform full of gourami than the same
device qwith half a dozen goldies. Tropicals do fantastic here since
water in smaller features get hotter than goldies really like. I
rarely ever feed them when outside, they look and grow much better,
and it has really eliminated most mosquito problems a well. So for 2
or 3 months I bring in the brood stock and house em inthe barn inthe
banks of tanks we have setup. The banks of tanks came from a Petco
store that remodeld and they wanted the tanks, lights stand pumps etc
etc ect all hauled off and gone.


All have been between 6 and 10 inches in length, and were raised at
the local Koi farm near Opp Alabama on the Pea River. They even threw
in a bunch of extra and wound up with approx 700 or so, and some of
those were quite larghe (12-18 inch size.) All given a once over as
they were acclimated form the farm water in my concrete burial vault
tanks I use for rearing up catfish and as QT tanks. ONce they wewre
acclimated they were netted and released in the pond. Muddying the
water has never been a problem with my other two ponds which also have
lots of koi in them, and this is mainly due to their depth.

This sort of bears out what I was told when I went up to the trout
fishery up in Scotland....it is a 5 acre mud pond but goes down to over
12 foot plus.....the water is clear even though the rainbow trout kick
up quite a lot of mess.....and this is all down to scalability - now if
I was to dig a mud pond in my garden which would be just a few hundred
gallons then cloudiness would be a very big issue.....

Sort of like a PICO or NANO compared toa larger setup. But outside
smaller bodies of water are a biug hassle whenit comes to heat / cold
and evaporation, and just a little bit of stirring up makes a muddy
mess.......so far ewven though those 700+ koi are all looking around
for food, and eating submerged grasses etc that were covered over when
it filled up muddying of thew water has not been a problem. I get more
muddy water from rain in some spokjts that are not grown iun as heavy
with ground cover, but even that settles out in a few hours time.


Pond is stil too new to let them forage as there is not enough natural
stuff there, but I usually always and intend to feed just the same. I
get feed at a local feed mill that mimicks Rangen Koi food and its
less than $8 for a 50# bag.......certainly better than not feeding or
feeding them catfish food or worse yet Special Kitty cat food as some
do. Its actual ornamental pond fish food for gf and koi without the
huge mark up.

I read a real interesting article in PFK this month - it's not on their
website yet so I'm not sure I can quote but might do so anyway (all go
out and buy PFK - you can get it in the US - does this cover me????)
The gist is that live foods produce better Koi - and that a diet of live
zooplankton produce fster growing and more marketable Koi than any
commercial diets or water enrichment programs - the original article was
in the Journal of Applied Ichthyology

Well if a person fertilizes a natural pond it gorws all organisms in
the food chain. However fertilizer adds to algae blooms but there is
stil a large percentage of "live " stuff that is going to occur
without fertilizer, so the key is not to exceed the source quanity.
Koi all love live foods, and those live things incklude may flys and a
multitude of aquatic stuff. I only supplement with man made stuff.
Even in my other ponds sometimes it hartd toget koi to come up for
food I throw in as they are too busy getting the good natural stuff.
So once this pond matures suplemental feeding is all that they wil get
for the most part. ONce they start to spawn, I will add some 3/4 to 1
pound sized florida hybrid bass to handle the population control. I
may commit to allowing koi to spawn in one of the other ponds at a
later date but for now I think the 700 plus is more than enough and
I'll just have to see what kind of predation and mortality rates I
have.......

Gill



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
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Old 21-01-2007, 11:17 PM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi

Gill Passman wrote:
Tristan wrote:


snip

I read a real interesting article in PFK this month - it's not on
their website yet so I'm not sure I can quote but might do so anyway
(all go out and buy PFK - you can get it in the US - does this cover
me????) The gist is that live foods produce better Koi - and that a
diet of live zooplankton produce fster growing and more marketable
Koi than any commercial diets or water enrichment programs - the
original article was in the Journal of Applied Ichthyology

Gill

Mmm, and where might one get it?
--
ßôyþëtë



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Old 21-01-2007, 11:26 PM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi

BoyPete wrote:
Gill Passman wrote:

Mmm, and where might one get it?


You can PFK in any reasonably big Newsagents in the UK - large branches
of WH Smiths certainly sell it....or you could subscribe to it or read
it via their website I do both.....even if you chose not to actually buy
the magazine the website is really great and eventually publicises all
the stuff anyhows....they cover freshwater, marine and ponds.....and
also have blogs where you can pass comments....from my experience they
are also very reactive in going out to research any readers concerns -
check out the whole stuff on Dwarf Gouramis - that one was set in motion
by me.....there is an awful lot of stuff on Koi and ponds that would be
of great interest to this group....and you do not need to be in the UK
to read this stuff....

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.u...pages/home.php

The web subscription is free and it is a really great
resource....suprised you've not come across it before Pete....

Gill


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Old 21-01-2007, 11:47 PM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi

Tristan wrote:


Well I just got rid of a clown fish and if it wa just a tad bit bigger
it woul dhave become a fish stick a it was nothing but trouble. I do
not have any clown loaches though.


clown loaches are the king of any freshwater tropical however this is a
little off-topic for a pond group....go over to rafm and then post
asking why we all love our clown loaches and you will get swamped in
replies I'm sure....

I had given some thought into
making a few smaller ponds allconnected tothe larger ones that use
water piped into and flowed from the larger pond. Idea being that
serious koi folks could "rent" space in these ponds and keep their koi
in them like say over the winter. Mud ponds actually do a kois color a
justice, more than can be done in prisitine waters and adding koi
clay, which is abundant in this areas soils naturally......But being
responsible for those high dollar fish is not something I woul dlike
to take responsibility for. There is a fellow in Virginia thsat houses
and keeps high dollar koi for foks that show in a totally fenced in
and enclosed natural mud pond, and when they decide to show the fish,
he pulls the pond, gets their fish, packs it up and ships it tothe
show. After the show is over the fish gets shipped back to his mud
pond.

Now the one thing that springs to my mind with this is how in the world
would you ever know what Koi belong to who?.....or does it become pot
luck....or do you need an individual area for each Koi you are looking
after....too much like hard work...and then could you get sued if you
accidentally gave back a duff Koi to someone who had bred their pride
and joy down the lines.....



Well I am not a"voyuer" of fish but with the wife and her multitude
of water featuyres that range form single 20 gal half barrels to 6
half barrels to 225 gal preforms that she has all around, and knowing
they are all to small for koi, not wanting to build a larger liner
pond tohave koi since we have large mud ponds with koi, we had
considered Goldies, but there is more money in tropicals than goldies
in this region, and considering we can keep most all tropicals in a
heavilly panated water feature outside here for about 9 months most
years its a natural thing to do. I can sell all the tropicals I can
breed. Its a lot neater IMHO to see a planted half barrel with yellow
cichlids in it or a 225 gal preform full of gourami than the same
device qwith half a dozen goldies. Tropicals do fantastic here since
water in smaller features get hotter than goldies really like. I
rarely ever feed them when outside, they look and grow much better,
and it has really eliminated most mosquito problems a well. So for 2
or 3 months I bring in the brood stock and house em inthe barn inthe
banks of tanks we have setup. The banks of tanks came from a Petco
store that remodeld and they wanted the tanks, lights stand pumps etc
etc ect all hauled off and gone.


We do not have the climate here to sustain anything other than goldies
or Koi out of doors....it would be quite amazing to keep tropicals
outdoors - it is great that your wife shares your interest....



Sort of like a PICO or NANO compared toa larger setup. But outside
smaller bodies of water are a biug hassle whenit comes to heat / cold
and evaporation, and just a little bit of stirring up makes a muddy
mess.......so far ewven though those 700+ koi are all looking around
for food, and eating submerged grasses etc that were covered over when
it filled up muddying of thew water has not been a problem. I get more
muddy water from rain in some spokjts that are not grown iun as heavy
with ground cover, but even that settles out in a few hours time.


some of us have the little choice than to go the small pond
route.....IMO it is great that even the most humble of set ups can allow
us to get the joy and pleasure from keeping our fish in the best
conditions possible.....I'm sure many if not all envy the ability to do
it on such a scale as you, Jim and Phyllis and Gary can (sorry if I
forgot anyone)....



Well if a person fertilizes a natural pond it gorws all organisms in
the food chain. However fertilizer adds to algae blooms but there is
stil a large percentage of "live " stuff that is going to occur
without fertilizer, so the key is not to exceed the source quanity.
Koi all love live foods, and those live things incklude may flys and a
multitude of aquatic stuff. I only supplement with man made stuff.
Even in my other ponds sometimes it hartd toget koi to come up for
food I throw in as they are too busy getting the good natural stuff.
So once this pond matures suplemental feeding is all that they wil get
for the most part. ONce they start to spawn, I will add some 3/4 to 1
pound sized florida hybrid bass to handle the population control. I
may commit to allowing koi to spawn in one of the other ponds at a
later date but for now I think the 700 plus is more than enough and
I'll just have to see what kind of predation and mortality rates I
have.......


Well I guess it comes down to whether you want to sell them on or just
have the pleasure of keeping them....to me it sounds right now it is
just for the pleasure of having them for both of you, even if you only
admit to the wife right now....good luck and enjoy :-) and keep us
updated on the progress, successes and pitfalls.....

Gill
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Old 22-01-2007, 12:14 AM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi


Tristan,

700 is amazing to me! They certainly won't be crowded. I am sure the
bass will help thin them out when they reproduce. Will you have
structure for them to hide in?

I am interested in your local food at $8 for 50#. That is cheaper than
catfish food over here in MS. What is is called?

You know, my sons would probably prefer to catch your bass than to eat
your koi...tho they would eat either, I suspect.

Jim

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Old 22-01-2007, 12:27 AM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi

Now the one thing that springs to my mind with this is how in the world
would you ever know what Koi belong to who?.....


They use pictures.... and probably hold-harmless contracts. ;-) ~ jan
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Old 22-01-2007, 12:39 AM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi



Way I understand it is there is not a lot of folks that can afford to
have this service that amounts to a vacation spa for the fish, so they
can play in the mud and gain the benefits. To us and most folks they
may look like th esame fish or so od in colroatioin they would be
hard to keep separated, but each koi is as indiviudal as a persons
finger prints are. Plus as previously mentined a ic is propbbaly
provided, but the person that does this servie in Virginia does kjnow
his fish.......he can see a pic of a fish on th internet and tellyou
whose fish it is , how lod it is and where its at and if it was ever
shown adna whole host of other info.......its his livelyhood.....I'll
think of his name one of these days and post it, but he knows his koi.

I would not imagine there is many fish in a pond either, and probbaly
all same sexes, as no one would want a badly bruised female show up
at a major show. Same for capitolizing off a spawn....would not be
proper to use say a GC koi to breed wihtout compensation to
owner.....afterall thats part of the game of koi keeping....and why
certain fish bring big $$$$ I guess integrity plays a big part in it
as well.......and this fellow is highly regarded and trusted in the
koi worold.

For some reason Waddington or Ray Abel rings a familiar sound. .. in
being the person that runs the Koi vacation spa! I know he has fish
from fokls as far away as California, and this makes it possible for a
person in California to show in competition in say Florida or New
York etc........

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 23:27:38 GMT, ~ janj
wrote:

Now the one thing that springs to my mind with this is how in the world
would you ever know what Koi belong to who?.....

They use pictures.... and probably hold-harmless contracts. ;-) ~ jan



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
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Old 22-01-2007, 12:55 AM posted to rec.ponds
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Default And the pond now has 500+ koi

~ janj wrote:


They use pictures.... and probably hold-harmless contracts. ;-) ~ jan


OK they might hold pictures but then think of the whole logistics of
catching an individual fish without draining the pond in the first place
and stressing all of the others....I must say I don't blame Tristan not
to want to consider it....might be different if you are raising them in
a small pond or kiddy pool but then so would the breeder being doing
just that so there is no advantage to them to move them.....the fishery
in Scotland I go on about a bit....has two small grow out ponds (about
1/2 acre a piece) and from talking to the owner just moving the fish
indiscriminately is quite a task let alone if he was getting selective
in what he was attempting to catch....indeed the whole ecosystem of the
pond/lake environment would collapse if he needed to drain to be
selective....now I would guess if money is the big motivator and you are
talking Kois worth thousands then you might do it....but IMO it would
also be putting undue stress on the other Kois worth thousands just to
get one or two out.....so to do it you would need a mud pond of quite a
size dedicated to each customer......and then you are talking very big
bucks....

Gill
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Deer shooting pair fined by court in Aberdeenshire - Lloyd Fowlie, 19, was fined £750 and Steven Wilson, 23, was fined £500 Gwyddno United Kingdom 3 04-09-2007 10:10 AM
Deer shooting pair fined by court in Aberdeenshire - Lloyd Fowlie, 19, was fined £750 and Steven Wilson, 23, was fined £500 John Gilmer[_2_] United Kingdom 4 03-09-2007 01:25 PM
F.S. 7,500 gallon pond Roger in Ottawa-On.Can. Ponds 2 29-07-2005 05:57 AM
koi and plants? depends on the pond size.... and the koi's diet... adavisus Ponds 3 07-08-2003 09:22 AM


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